Official Metroid Prime 3 Speculation Topic

2006-07-25 05:15:22 pm

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Look, no offense, but do you know what we are? METROID FANBOYS/GIRLS. Of course we'd like the series, no matter what they do to it.

Oh? I still can't stop hating Hunters for being too much of an FPS. I'm still bothered by the dark/light focus in Echoes which starts to make it look more like Zelda, or most generic fantasy games even. The lack of exploration and the massive amount of obligatory text in Fusion makes it lose A LOT of it's value.

It seems that any time they try to detract from the very plain and simple Metroid mechanics, they fail. I'm not a fanboy of Metroid as a series as much as I really enjoy the good games in the series, which as of now are the majority, but I don't know how long it'll stay that way.

Izo

2006-07-25 05:15:26 pm

soaking through

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Look, no offense, but do you know what we are? METROID FANBOYS/GIRLS. Of course we'd like the series, no matter what they do to it. But look at it from a normal person's perspective. In other words, put yourself in a non-fanboy/girl's shoes... "Grizby?" "Rezbit?" "Sporb!?" Add on the rather strange techno music we've come to love and the other strange things about Metroid, and the person won't pick it up.

Do you know why Halo did so well? Because of it's it's characters, story, and score. The Halo theme song is all too familiar to any gamer, no matter what game they're a fan of. If Nintendo gave the characters [a lot] more personality, a better storyline (they've gotten this down...the MP3 story kicks ass), and redo that famous score (we all know the Metroid title theme) with an actual orchestra, then the game will most likely surpass Halo 3 in popularity, sales, and fans.

Who gives a shit about sales? I'd rather play Metroid Prime than Halo, and that's the only important thing to me. Though I'm a big fan of stories like Halo's, that is exactly NOT what Metroid is about. If you make Metroid more like Halo, I'd like it less, and then I lose one of my favourite game series. I'd rather play a game with good gameplay than any game with good "characters, story, and score," though I honestly doubt that most people who bought Halo bought it because of those three things.

[quote="Otaku Dragon"]Look, no offense, but do you know what we are? METROID FANBOYS/GIRLS. Of course we'd like the series, no matter what they do to it. But look at it from a normal person's perspective. In other words, put yourself in a non-fanboy/girl's shoes... "Grizby?" "Rezbit?" "Sporb!?" Add on the rather strange techno music we've come to love and the other strange things about Metroid, and the person won't pick it up.

Do you know [i]why[/i] Halo did so well? Because of it's it's characters, story, and score. The Halo theme song is all too familiar to any gamer, no matter what game they're a fan of. If Nintendo gave the characters [a lot] more personality, a better storyline (they've gotten this down...the MP3 story kicks ass), and redo that famous score (we all know the Metroid title theme) with an actual orchestra, then the game will most likely surpass Halo 3 in popularity, sales, and fans.[/quote]

Who gives a shit about sales?  I'd rather play Metroid Prime than Halo, and that's the only important thing to me.  Though I'm a big fan of stories like Halo's, that is exactly NOT what Metroid is about.  If you make Metroid more like Halo, I'd like it less, and then I lose one of my favourite game series.  I'd rather play a game with good gameplay than any game with good "characters, story, and score," though I honestly doubt that most people who bought Halo bought it because of those three things.

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-25 05:21:05 pm

Didn't I already say that I was NOT suggesting that Metroid be like Halo? I believe I did. I'm saying it should borrow traits from Halo. In case you haven't noticed, Metroid Prime and Prime 2 had very obscure storylines. Halo on the other hand, does not. If we give Metroid a real story with as much quality as Halo and it'll be better.

In a nutshell, here's what I'm saying:

Give it a better story, cooler characters, and better music.

Oh god, now I have a headache. I need to shorten my posts...

Izo

2006-07-25 05:25:59 pm

soaking through

See, that's the thing. The point of Metroid is that it doesn't have characters. It has a chick in a suit who shoots stuff, and a couple of big recurring beasties. It is a quality of Super Metroid it has a teeny bit of story at the beginning and then complete isolation for the rest of the game, and it's part of the reason I rate the game so highly. It doesn't need a better story because Metroid's about the gameplay, not the story. The story's just an excuse for making the chick in the suit shoot stuff.

Also, don't diss the music. The Prime OSTs are amazing for the most part, imho.

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-25 05:30:42 pm

While I agree that Metroid has good gameplay (well, after some practice anyway), I'd still love to see a good story in a Metroid game. Maybe a story that can give a little insight to Samus's cloudy past...? Maybe...

And about the music, I just think that real instruments would sound much better than computerized noises.

Yoshi348

2006-07-25 05:39:17 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

I'm much less of a purist than many around here, but I'm definitely of the opinion that shifts in tone like that really have to grow naturally to work. If developers and story people and such all decide to take a series in a new direction, then it has a decent shot at working well. However, if elements get mandated to change in order to have a broader marketing appeal, it almost never works out well. Rarely does it come of as anything but forced. It's sort of like painful attempts by big businesses to be "hip" and "cool".

The upshot is that I could dig it, but only if it happened naturally. And given that Corruption is the third and final part of a trilogy it'd be a bit wierd to shake things up at this point.

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-25 05:45:55 pm

I think nintendo should make a change, if not for Prime 3, then for a future Metroid game.

Prime Hunter

2006-07-25 07:10:45 pm

If you look hard enough, both Prime and Echoes do have a story. Sure, they're not as detailed as some games are, but it's still there for those who want to find it. A game where the story is forced upon the players was tried already, and we got Fusion as the result. (Not that I have a problem with games like that, since I love the Metal Gear Solid games. It just doesn't work well for Samus in the Metroid universe.)

Don't get me wrong, Fusion is still a blast to play, but if you compare it to other games in the series, it falls short of the magic that are Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Hunters and Echoes do the same thing, for the reasons that Dragonfangs mentioned. The games themselves are still great when compared to many games that have been released, but if you look at what the Metroid series was all about, those three are the farthest from it.

Change is good, but to a certain extent. The fact that I consider Metroid Prime the second best Metroid game, and the best game in this current gaming generation, means a lot. (I think it's also the highest game rated by Gamespot this genation at a 9.7 out of 10.) And there are a good amount of changes that were made from the original Metroid formula to make it work, but in the end it was far more successful than anybody imagined it would be.

I do agree with Yoshi though, that making a HUGE change to the Metroid forumla at this point is not the best thing to do. Corruption is the last in the Prime trilogy, so now is not the time. However, with the success of Metroid Prime and the huge change they made there, I am welcome to another change along that scope down the line. (We also can't forget the we now have the capabilities of the Wii and the DS that can factor into this huge change.) Besides, even if this change doesn't effect the Metroid series as much as Prime did and the game turns out poorly, we still have the older games we can play. Wink

And just for the record, I have no idea what the Halo theme song souds like.

If you look hard enough, both Prime and Echoes do have a story. Sure, they're not as detailed as some games are, but it's still there for those who want to find it. A game where the story is forced upon the players was tried already, and we got Fusion as the result. (Not that I have a problem with games like that, since I love the Metal Gear Solid games. It just doesn't work well for Samus in the Metroid universe.)

Don't get me wrong, Fusion is still a blast to play, but if you compare it to other games in the series, it falls short of the magic that are Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Hunters and Echoes do the same thing, for the reasons that Dragonfangs mentioned. The games themselves are still great when compared to many games that have been released, but if you look at what the Metroid series was all about, those three are the farthest from it.

Change is good, but to a certain extent. The fact that I consider Metroid Prime the second best Metroid game, and the best game in this current gaming generation, means a lot. (I think it's also the highest game rated by Gamespot this genation at a 9.7 out of 10.) And there are a good amount of changes that were made from the original Metroid formula to make it work, but in the end it was far more successful than anybody imagined it would be.

I do agree with Yoshi though, that making a HUGE change to the Metroid forumla at this point is not the best thing to do. Corruption is the last in the Prime trilogy, so now is not the time. However, with the success of Metroid Prime and the huge change they made there, I am welcome to another change along that scope down the line. (We also can't forget the we now have the capabilities of the Wii and the DS that can factor into this huge change.) Besides, even if this change doesn't effect the Metroid series as much as Prime did and the game turns out poorly, we still have the older games we can play. :wink:

[size=9px]And just for the record, I have no idea what the Halo theme song souds like. [/size]

SABERinBLUE

2006-07-25 07:12:28 pm

Cook of the Sea

I uh...I myself rather liked the gameplay of Halo, myself. Sure the window dressing was cool but seriously, Halo is an FPS, Metroid is Metroid. One shouldn't have to turn into the other to do well.

Mr. Aran

2006-07-25 07:30:55 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from Prime Hunter:

(I think it's also the highest game rated by Gamespot this genation at a 9.7 out of 10.)

Tony Hawk 3 got a 10 by the same person who gave Prey a 7.5.

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-25 07:56:49 pm

According to Game Informer, Fusion got a perfect 10, along with Halo 2. I was very suprised that Prime didn't get a 10, as it is my favorite game of all time. But regarding to the changes issue...

The changes don't need to be instant, like Prime-to-Echoes, they need to be subtle, and build up over time. This will allow change but won't change it so much that it screws the entire franchise over.

arkarian

2006-07-25 11:27:11 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

I'm only saying that Metroid should stray away from younger teens and start focusing more on the older teens.

I've gotta ask ... why? Sales and competing with Halo aren't everything, you know. In fact, I don't consider there to be a competition between Halo and Metroid at all -- they're completely different styles of games.

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

The Halo theme song is all too familiar to any gamer, no matter what game they're a fan of.

I couldn't hum the Halo theme if you offered me a million dollars to do so, and I've even played Halo a few times.

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Oh god, now I have a headache. I need to shorten my posts...

Hate to say it, but that was a fairly short post, man.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-07-26 01:21:45 am

Note: the following forum post is meant to be shocking, but not entirely offensive... wouldn't want to break out the italics here...

note that i also have not played halo 1, but i own halo 2 and am online fairly often (my only issue is mass amounts of lag due to our xbox being in the basement of our house).

urh, you've really not played, well, ANY HALO WHATSOEVER, otaku dragon.

though i could hum the halo themesong, its not because im like "OMGHALOSINGLEPLAYERISROXORS!!!"

halo does NOT THRIVE ON SINGLE-PLAYER.

(in fact, its singleplayer sucks, aside from exploring with glitches and the sputnik skull (which you probably dont know about)).

halo does NOT THRIVE ON STORYLINE.

(though there are books, they haven't sold well, as a person who plays halo doesn't generally look into, well, reading... not many actual gamers do).

halo does NOT THRIVE ON GRAPHICS (they're shoddy if you actually look at 'em up close).

(if it makes you happy to see me say so, if you compare them to metroid prime, they're completely godawful).

HALO THRIVES ON MULTIPLAYER. THATS IT.

(and its multiplayer alone is worthy enough to warrant it a 20/10, due to its huge customizable options and gigantic multiplayer levels, matchmaking modes, level ranking system (that works, unlike hunters' by the way), community, friends' list workability, clans, voice communication, voice MASKING (which nintendo could have just used instead of restricting speech altogether), autoupdates to keep glitches IN LINE (something they cant do with hunters), and their non-abolishment of glitches (as everyone who wants to can actually do them! OH MY!)).

(co-op sucks too!).

metroid thrives on... guess!

SINGLE-PLAYER!

and NEITHER can even think of competing with the other in terms of their respective RULING GAMEPLAY.

YOU LOSE!

GOOD DAY SIR!

Note: the following forum post is meant to be shocking, but not entirely offensive... wouldn't want to break out the [i]italics[/i] here...

note that i also have not played halo 1, but i own halo 2 and am online fairly often (my only issue is mass amounts of lag due to our xbox being in the basement of our house).

urh, you've really not played, well, ANY HALO WHATSOEVER, otaku dragon.

though i could hum the halo themesong, its not because im like "OMGHALOSINGLEPLAYERISROXORS!!!"

halo does NOT THRIVE ON SINGLE-PLAYER.

(in fact, its singleplayer sucks, aside from exploring with glitches and the sputnik skull (which you probably dont know about)).

halo does NOT THRIVE ON STORYLINE.

(though there are books, they haven't sold well, as a person who plays halo doesn't generally look into, well, reading... not many actual gamers do).

halo does NOT THRIVE ON GRAPHICS (they're shoddy if you actually look at 'em up close).

(if it makes you happy to see me say so, if you compare them to metroid prime, they're completely godawful).

HALO THRIVES ON MULTIPLAYER. THATS IT.

(and its multiplayer alone is worthy enough to warrant it a 20/10, due to its huge customizable options and gigantic multiplayer levels, matchmaking modes, level ranking system (that works, unlike hunters' by the way), community, friends' list workability, clans, voice communication, voice MASKING (which nintendo could have just used instead of restricting speech altogether), autoupdates to keep glitches IN LINE (something they cant do with hunters), and their non-abolishment of glitches (as everyone who wants to can actually do them! OH MY!)).

(co-op sucks too!).

metroid thrives on... guess!

SINGLE-PLAYER!

and NEITHER can even think of competing with the other in terms of their respective RULING GAMEPLAY.

YOU LOSE!

GOOD DAY SIR!

UchihaSasuke

2006-07-26 03:09:13 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

i bet he would favor licensed music in a new F-Zero game...
*gets seizures by the mere thought of licensed music in F-Zero*

Metroid is fine as it is. the music might not be orchestrated but it is unique. my brother owns halo and the music sounds quite generic imo. i would take unique music over generic music at the cost of orchestration any day.

also, i think the only non-technological changes the series should go though are gameplay changes. Wii controller is a good change that will make the series different, unlike some suit name change or some added music effects.

Rox

2006-07-26 06:58:27 am

Regarding Metroid and storylines... We've already got very intricate stories in Metroid already. There HAS been a gradual change toward more story-based games over the years. Apparently so gradual you never noticed.

The first two games had no backstory. Some evil guy has an evil creature, kill them both. The evil creatures have a home planet, kill them all. That's it. Super Metroid had a slight story... Then Fusion showed up with a whole bunch of story-driven twists, as well as Prime. Prime without the storyline would make no sense at all. Echoes would make even less sense without the story. In fact, bits of Echoes are heavily driven forward by the plot, explaining why you should be doing something and such.

Corruption doesn't seem different from what we've seen so far. There's a story about the Federation, the Pirates, a whole bunch of characters on a whole bunch of planets, and hopefully the end of the Phazon deal. That's potentially quite a bit of story, right there.

If you think about it, Halo's storyline isn't that good, it's just that it's woven into the game so extremely well. The impact of the story is much more noticable to the player. It's also different in that it was the first FPS in a very very long time to actually bother with a real story, instead of just "aliens invade! Kill all! Win the Earth!".

...

Yeah, Metroid has story.

Regarding Metroid and storylines... We've already got very intricate stories in Metroid already. There HAS been a gradual change toward more story-based games over the years. Apparently so gradual you never noticed.

The first two games had no backstory. Some evil guy has an evil creature, kill them both. The evil creatures have a home planet, kill them all. That's it. Super Metroid had a slight story... Then Fusion showed up with a whole bunch of story-driven twists, as well as Prime. Prime without the storyline would make no sense at all. Echoes would make even less sense without the story. In fact, bits of Echoes are heavily driven forward by the plot, explaining why you should be doing something and such.

Corruption doesn't seem different from what we've seen so far. There's a story about the Federation, the Pirates, a whole bunch of characters on a whole bunch of planets, and hopefully the end of the Phazon deal. That's potentially quite a bit of story, right there.

If you think about it, Halo's storyline isn't that good, it's just that it's woven into the game so extremely well. The impact of the story is much more noticable to the player. It's also different in that it was the first FPS in a very very long time to actually bother with a real story, instead of just "aliens invade! Kill all! Win the Earth!".

...

Yeah, Metroid has story.

arkarian

2006-07-26 10:46:40 am

red chamber dream

Lazylen: Weird, I think Halo's multiplayer sucks, too. Might just be me, though. *shrugs*

Prime Hunter

2006-07-26 10:52:54 am

And I'm still trying to figure out how "Corruption is going to take the FPS/FPA genre to places no one has gone before... laugh new

" bit that Nintendo keeps mentioning. If they manage to pull through with whatever they're planning and it actually does this in the end, isn't that change enough for now?

Quote from Rox:

It's also different in that it was the first FPS in a very very long time to actually bother with a real story, instead of just "aliens invade! Kill all! Win the Earth!".

Uh, what about Half-Life? It came out in 1998, THREE whole years before Halo. I'm pretty sure it beat Halo to the punch with the real, noticable story thing. (Although HL 2 does a better job at this, but it only came out less than 2 years ago.)

Quote from Arkarian:

Weird, I think Halo's multiplayer sucks, too. Might just be me, though. *shrugs*

Interesting: I've never played Halo multiplayer, but according to my older brother it is supposedly very fun. But, maybe that's just him. Wink

arkarian

2006-07-26 11:05:01 am

red chamber dream

Quote from Prime Hunter:

And I'm still trying to figure out how "Corruption is going to take the FPS/FPA genre to places no one has gone before... laugh new

" bit that Nintendo keeps mentioning.

Well, they're doing that with the new controller, obviously. I don't see how that could not permanently change the FPS/FPA genre.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I've never played Halo multiplayer, but according to my older brother it is supposedly very fun. But, maybe that's just him. Wink

lol, it's become generally accepted that everyone likes Halo, even though that's not true.

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-26 12:05:08 pm

Of course, not everyone likes a game. But more people like one game than another. Example: Black and Pong. Black is awesome. Black has millions of fans. Pong is not so awesome. Pong has a few hundred fans. It just so happens that Halo is like Black.

Gah, I just confused myself.

[EDIT]
Oh, by the way, Halo's multiplayer is nothing special. "Get a gun, kill 25 guys, win." Wow. What a revolutionary concept.

Derek

2006-07-26 12:53:59 pm

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Of course, not everyone likes a game. But more people like one game than another. Example: Black and Pong. Black is awesome. Black has millions of fans. Pong is not so awesome. Pong has a few hundred fans. It just so happens that Halo is like Black.

Yet pong is a classic that will be played for years to come, while Black will be forgotten in a couple, thus Pong wins in the end :P

Otaku Dragon

2006-07-26 01:12:53 pm

Games become engraved in a gamer's mind eventually. So it should come as no suprise that Pong will never be forgotten. The same applies for Pacman, Breakout, Space Invaders, Asteroids, Galaga, Donkey Kong, Mario, Zelda, Black, Halo, Metroid...the list goes on for eternity.

Izo

2006-07-26 01:14:07 pm

soaking through

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Oh, by the way, Halo's multiplayer is nothing special. "Get a gun, kill 25 guys, win." Wow. What a revolutionary concept.

Congratulations on the oversimplification of the decade. That's akin to describing Metroid Prime as "Grab items, kill squid, win." Though Halo's not my thing, I'm sure anyone who plays it seriously will tell you it's far deeper than that, just as you'd be able to tell anyone who said that about MP that they were horribly wrong.

EDIT: Also, I really doubt Black will ever be remembered in the same vein as Pacman or Pong. A lot of people criticised it for being repetitive and short, and making an FPS that stands out is very difficult.

Prime Hunter

2006-07-26 02:19:37 pm

What exactly is Black, anyway? I don't think I've even heard of it, while I can at least recognize the rest of the games in the list you made. (I should know what they look all like too, but I can't seem to remember what Breakout looks like. And I just had a Game History class a few months ago too, and I'm pretty sure I saw the game in action. Embarassed

)

And for it's time, Pong was pretty much the BEST game around. (Why else would there be tons of games that copied or tried to improve the Pong mechanics in the years following it?)

Quote from Arkarian:

Quote from Prime Hunter:

And I'm still trying to figure out how "Corruption is going to take the FPS/FPA genre to places no one has gone before... " bit that Nintendo keeps mentioning.

Well, they're doing that with the new controller, obviously. I don't see how that could not permanently change the FPS/FPA genre.

I know, but it sounds to me like there's supposed to be something else besides the controller that is going to make it this way. That's the idea I've been getting.

Edit: Should this really be in the Prime 3 Topic anymore?

What exactly is Black, anyway? I don't think I've even heard of it, while I can at least recognize the rest of the games in the list you made. (I should know what they look all like too, but I can't seem to remember what Breakout looks like. [size=7px]And I just had a Game History class a few months ago too, and I'm pretty sure I saw the game in action. [/size]:oops:)

And for it's time, Pong was pretty much the BEST game around. (Why else would there be tons of games that copied or tried to improve the Pong mechanics in the years following it?)

[quote="Arkarian"][quote="Prime Hunter"]And I'm still trying to figure out how "Corruption is going to take the FPS/FPA genre to places no one has gone before...  " bit that Nintendo keeps mentioning.[/quote]
Well, they're doing that with the new controller, obviously. I don't see how that could not permanently change the FPS/FPA genre. [/quote]
I know, but it sounds to me like there's supposed to be something else besides the controller that is going to make it this way. That's the idea I've been getting.

Edit: Should this really be in the Prime 3 Topic anymore?

A Silly Goose

2006-07-26 02:25:18 pm

Look, witty text!

I'd say the FPS to remember is Goldeneye 007, simply because it was the first one where you had actual objectives, as opposed to just shooting everything that moves (and then shooting everything that doesn't move, just for the sake of shooting it).

Mr. Aran

2006-07-26 03:23:12 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from Izo:

Quote from Otaku Dragon:

Oh, by the way, Halo's multiplayer is nothing special. "Get a gun, kill 25 guys, win." Wow. What a revolutionary concept.

Congratulations on the oversimplification of the decade. That's akin to describing Metroid Prime as "Grab items, kill squid, win." Though Halo's not my thing, I'm sure anyone who plays it seriously will tell you it's far deeper than that, just as you'd be able to tell anyone who said that about MP that they were horribly wrong.

If you have a sniper gun, a shotgun, and some FPS skill, then you'll dominate 80% of the time.