sequence break and speed trick discussion

(user is banned)

2006-04-17 11:09:56 pm

Mr. Potter, seeing as how you're the fastest runner of this game at this point in time, and seeing as how you were still miles away from the boss portal and artifact #3 at the time you died, I think its pretty safe to say that it is impossible to doubleboss arcterra unless there's a trigger found to get rid of the timer.

SAL

2006-04-17 11:27:00 pm

Quote from Derek:

Quote from SamusAranLuver:

i though double bossing was imposible....the boss portal won't open...

Yeah, it was confirmed that the VDO 1 boss portal won't while escaping from VDO 2, so I doubt the Arcterra 2 portal will open while escaping Arcterra 1. It would still be cool to try though, who knows.

I found something that should save some time, I don't think anyone has mentioned it before (I could be wrong). The first time through Weapons Complex, you are supposed to fall into an icy pit and fight two ithraks, instead of falling into the pit, move around the edge and the ithraks should come into sight hanging from the ceiling, shoot them now and they will die in a few uncharged shots, then just drop down to get the key.

Damn i knew i forgot to post something yeah...the shooting part is right but you don't need charged shoots..i think a few power shot will do.

rekameohs

2006-04-17 11:30:25 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from Lazylen:

Mr. Potter, seeing as how you're the fastest runner of this game at this point in time, and seeing as how you were still miles away from the boss portal and artifact #3 at the time you died, I think its pretty safe to say that it is impossible to doubleboss arcterra unless there's a trigger found to get rid of the timer.

*sigh* Don't you get it? We will never be able to double boss anything. Even if you get there in time, the portal won't work. It didn't work in VDO so I doubt that it will work here.

SAL

2006-04-17 11:35:33 pm

what about the energy overload timer? maybe that will cancel the boss escape timer..

Derek

2006-04-17 11:43:00 pm

Quote from SamusAranLuver:

Quote from Derek:

I found something that should save some time, I don't think anyone has mentioned it before (I could be wrong). The first time through Weapons Complex, you are supposed to fall into an icy pit and fight two ithraks, instead of falling into the pit, move around the edge and the ithraks should come into sight hanging from the ceiling, shoot them now and they will die in a few uncharged shots, then just drop down to get the key.

Damn i knew i forgot to post something yeah...the shooting part is right but you don't need charged shoots..i think a few power shot will do.

I said uncharged shots :P

SAL

2006-04-17 11:47:44 pm

omg sorry...i think i need glasses seriously i can'tsee anything anymore....stupid mph made me blind...

Liku

2006-04-18 12:58:00 am

Quote from Lazylen:

Mr. Potter, seeing as how you're the fastest runner of this game at this point in time,

Alas, I go ignored!

I think we should compile a list of all the tricks(Including credits) found and the rooms they're in. Like what M2K2 has for all the other Metroids, but without the videos.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-18 11:36:05 am

Quote from Liku:

Quote from Lazylen:

Mr. Potter, seeing as how you're the fastest runner of this game at this point in time,

Alas, I go ignored!

I think we should compile a list of all the tricks(Including credits) found and the rooms they're in. Like what M2K2 has for all the other Metroids, but without the videos.

sorry. i had only heard of Mr potter doing speedruns. >.<

SAL has a good point. Someone should check that out... I might be able to, seeing as how i have a file that just beat CA1.

Mr Potter

2006-04-18 03:42:29 pm

Well, I'm fastest now. 1:43. :P

Anyway, I need a new trick in that section of Arcterra, or a bunch of new tricks, but I need a method of saving about 45 seconds. Then we'll see if double-bossing Arcterra is possible.

Also, I was thinking about it and realized that just saving right after Imperialist then coming right back is only a few seconds slower than double-bossing Arcterra, so I just went ahead and did that. So double-bossing Arcterra is worthless; but if anyone wants to try it's a great thing to do when you're bored.

One more thing. When I was leaving Alinos after having stopped the escape timer by activating the good-graphics cutscene, I decided to try using the portal to get back to the ship. Didn't work; the portal wouldn't work, even though the timer had stopped. I tried scanning it again, and it said "ship portal active" but it still wouldn't work. So speed runners beware that; you need to take the long way out of Alinos.

mightypoo007

2006-04-18 05:33:31 pm

Quote from Mr Potter:

Well, I'm fastest now. 1:43. :P

Oh man, it's so hard to keep up with these times... :(

Dr. Trence

2006-04-18 06:37:08 pm

wow, good time mr potter! i would never imagine getting something like that! next, we need to see if liku can beat you..

so, if we all agree to compiling all the speed tricks and what-not, then i could record them. my cam-corder thing for some reason can only record for 20 seconds, but it should be good enough.

Mr Potter

2006-04-18 08:29:31 pm

Won't be good enough for some of them, like maybe early Imperialist. If you want to record longer, you might need a better camera.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-18 09:52:35 pm

well, i don't know. i might just record the small speed tricks, but it doesn't really matter. there really isn't that much tricks that could be recorded since there really not hard to do at all, but i can do it if someone wants me too

anyways, back to the topic.

HeroofTime55

2006-04-19 02:23:22 pm

dont know if these are new, dont bash me if they arent. but anyway, ive found two techiques (not including a dbj, which nintendo apparently ignored in much of the level design, for example it can be used in alinos perch to go the opposite direction through the door behind the gate, among other things....)

the first technique i am calling a "missile jump". when you take damage, you fly a little bit the opposite way, but a significant bit. aim a missile at your feet. it gives yu a small boost up when it goes off. at the height of this, you can do a space jump. ive used this to get up the hole in that room with the portal in the lava planet (forget the name), the hole you aim up to shoot spire (i think its him), it takes a few tries but its very possible.

the second tequnique abuses a bug with the game. ive noticed that slanted walls can be climbed, and quite easily, simply by pressing into them. steep walls even. ive used this in the ice hive (i think) to climb from the portal from the landing area directly onto the platform with the boss portal (meaning: you can entirely skip the process of opening the vault door... provided there isnt a force field blocking the hallway with all the plants, i forget if there is). ive also used it to climb atop a pillar at the landing site on the lava planet (you can climb the walls themselves, but theres an invisible dome keeping you inside), and i used it with a missile jump in the celestial archives (in the part with the rooms with many teleporters) to go from the bottom of the room to the walkway above by jumping off one of those generators.
*this can be very tricky on steep walls, if you arent aligned perfectly perpendicular to the surface you can quickly slide back and forth, causing big problems considering that steep surfaces tend to take alot longer to climb.

dont know if these are new, dont bash me if they arent.  but anyway, ive found two techiques (not including a dbj, which nintendo apparently ignored in much of the level design, for example it can be used in alinos perch to go the opposite direction through the door behind the gate, among other things....)

the first technique i am calling a "missile jump".  when you take damage, you fly a little bit the opposite way, but a significant bit.  aim a missile at your feet.  it gives yu a small boost up when it goes off.  at the height of this, you can do a space jump.  ive used this to get up the hole in that room with the portal in the lava planet (forget the name), the hole you aim up to shoot spire (i think its him), it takes a few tries but its very possible.

the second tequnique abuses a bug with the game.  ive noticed that slanted walls can be climbed, and quite easily, simply by pressing into them.  steep walls even.  ive used this in the ice hive (i think) to climb from the portal from the landing area directly onto the platform with the boss portal (meaning:  you can entirely skip the process of opening the vault door... provided there isnt a force field blocking the hallway with all the plants, i forget if there is).  ive also used it to climb atop a pillar at the landing site on the lava planet (you can climb the walls themselves, but theres an invisible dome keeping you inside), and i used it with a missile jump in the celestial archives (in the part with the rooms with many teleporters) to go from the bottom of the room to the walkway  above by jumping off one of those generators.
*this can be very tricky on steep walls, if you arent aligned perfectly perpendicular to the surface you can quickly slide back and forth, causing big problems considering that steep surfaces tend to take alot longer to climb.

Mr Potter

2006-04-19 03:31:28 pm

Both of those have already been found.

EDIT: And Nintendo didn't ignore the DBJ; it's required in Arcterra visit 1 to get the key in Frost Labyrinth.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-19 08:16:11 pm

people should browse more on the topic.. <_<

anyway, mr potter, have you been working on the sw's? it seems i've been the only person that's into them. well, i'll just say what i need to say:

i think i am VERY close to landing in the echo hall sw right. like i said before, when you jump into the tunnel once you warped through the roof, i was thinking that if i can land in the right spot in (or) between the tunnel, i can still see the black background, then i can walk off the edge of the tunnel, then use the "ledge jump" technique and land on the open space. because if you are in the tunnel fully, then you're trapped. and because there seems to be a limit in height once you jump through the roof, and die from the fall. so, the point is that i think i almost got it; and if i can do it, then hopefully i won't die and can actually mess around in the sw! then i could test out the floaty jump.

if i EVER get it right, i'll record it, it's very hard and might not be re-produced. i'm not saying i got it, but according to what i'm doing, it will take a while to get back in the tunnel right, if i don't record the first attempt.

edit: neo, the first technique is called the "rocket jump". that's what the original founder called it (which is Derek i think) it also works with the other beams, such as the magmaul, (which gives it the greatest boost) shock coil, and others. can't remember them all

people should browse more on the topic.. <_<

anyway, mr potter, have you been working on the sw's? it seems i've been the only person that's into them. well, i'll just say what i need to say:

i think i am VERY close to landing in the echo hall sw right. like i said before, when you jump into the tunnel once you warped through the roof, i was thinking that if i can land in the right spot in (or) between the tunnel, i can still see the black background, then i can walk off the edge of the tunnel, then use the "ledge jump" technique and land on the open space. because if you are in the tunnel fully, then you're trapped. and because there seems to be a limit in height once you jump through the roof, and die from the fall. so, the point is that i think i almost got it; and if i can do it, then hopefully i won't die and can actually mess around in the sw! then i could test out the floaty jump.

if i EVER get it right, i'll record it, it's very hard and might not be re-produced. i'm not saying i got it, but according to what i'm doing, it will take a while to get back in the tunnel right, if i don't record the first attempt.

edit: neo, the first technique is called the "rocket jump". that's what the original founder called it (which is Derek i think) it also works with the other beams, such as the magmaul, (which gives it the greatest boost) shock coil, and others. can't remember them all

Derek

2006-04-19 08:42:10 pm

I was just copying the standard FPS name for that class of technique. And it doesn't work with the shock coil, it has no explosion. Charged Magmaul and Charged missile are the highest jumps (they're equal in height).

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-19 08:54:15 pm

Quote from Derek:

I was just copying the standard FPS name for that class of technique. And it doesn't work with the shock coil, it has no explosion. Charged Magmaul and Charged missile are the highest jumps (they're equal in height).

I think he meant the Volt Driver. :P

The Battlehammer is a good tool to use to get up walls fast.

Metroiddestruktor

2006-04-20 03:05:11 pm

I don't know if anyone has written this but I got the game a week ago so there's much too much to read in this topic. ^^'
Guardians can be killed very fast by using the alternative-beams.
Judicator is very effective but guardians which also use it are resistant against it. But they could be killed with Maugmaul very easy. :D

Dr. Trence

2006-04-20 08:04:37 pm

yes, we know that. mr potter wrote a very detailed post of it someone where in the "best speed route as of know" topic. but technically, i think i found the judi-strategy one, i probably mentioned it a few pages back

Quote from LazyLen:

I think he meant the Volt Driver.

whoops,

i did actually. i forgot that the shock coil doesn't give you a boost, or that you can't charge it.. i got to pay attention more.. >.<

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-21 08:53:26 am

Quote from Dr. Trence:

yes, we know that. mr potter wrote a very detailed post of it someone where in the "best speed route as of know" topic. but technically, i think i found the judi-strategy one, i probably mentioned it a few pages back

Quote from LazyLen:

I think he meant the Volt Driver.

whoops,

i did actually. i forgot that the shock coil doesn't give you a boost, or that you can't charge it.. i got to pay attention more.. >.<

well, the volt driver is kinda useless, considering how it doesnt give you a huge boost, and it does a whopping 50 damage. Shocked

Dr. Trence

2006-04-22 12:55:02 am

just found a new sw:

i can't remember, but in thermal vast, someone said they found a "small" sw by using the boost pad to jam into the tunnel, but mine is totally different, and might be confirmed as a real sw.

so, in thermal vast, left part of the room, with a tunnel (you must enter at the front entrance), there is a long pipe on the top of the ceiling. do a dbj onto them, and if you unmorphed, you will land on the pipe. from here, move samus foward, while sticking to the wall, and half-way there, you will see a blank space, which tells you there's a sw, keep wallcrawling (whatever you call it) against the wall, and then when you come up to the blank space, hit the pad/stylus left, if you only did it partially, you will pop through the wall, then back in, so you won't enter the real sw, and will need to start over. but if you did it right, you will die. i'll get a vid of it in a few minutes, but yeah. i haven't tested it (as far as the sw techniques), so i'll try it out after i get the vid up. if it has been discovered, then tell me.

as for speed tricks:

completly useless, as far as i know, but in high ground. there is a artifact holder thing, and a judi shield. if you stand on the top pillar, on the very edge, and do a well-timed hbj/dbj, and unmorph at the peak of the bomb jump, you'll land on the top platform, where the scan panel is. but since there is a judi door on the other side, it's not useful, but if you do have it, then it could save you some time, and allow you to skip a judi-shield.

that is all :p i'll edit my post once i get the vid to the sw

edit: hmm, very interesting, i can actually walk around the room while in the sw state. so that means i can walk through the blocks/pillars, but not that cage that blocks half of tv. i walked around it in the lava, so that is very, very interesting... most like a little wallcrawl around the room

just found a new sw:

i can't remember, but in thermal vast, someone said they found a "small" sw by using the boost pad to jam into the tunnel, but mine is totally different, and might be confirmed as a real sw.

so, in thermal vast, left part of the room, with a tunnel (you must enter at the front entrance), there is a long pipe on the top of the ceiling. do a dbj onto them, and if you unmorphed, you will land on the pipe. from here, move samus foward, while sticking to the wall, and half-way there, you will see a blank space, which tells you there's a sw, keep wallcrawling (whatever you call it) against the wall, and then when you come up to the blank space, hit the pad/stylus left, if you only did it partially, you will pop through the wall, then back in, so you won't enter the real sw, and will need to start over. but if you did it right, you will die. i'll get a vid of it in a few minutes, but yeah. i haven't tested it (as far as the sw techniques), so i'll try it out after i get the vid up. if it has been discovered, then tell me.

as for speed tricks:

completly useless, as far as i know, but in high ground. there is a artifact holder thing, and a judi shield. if you stand on the top pillar, on the very edge, and do a well-timed hbj/dbj, and unmorph at the peak of the bomb jump, you'll land on the top platform, where the scan panel is. but since there is a judi door on the other side, it's not useful, but if you do have it, then it could save you some time, and allow you to skip a judi-shield.

that is all :p i'll edit my post once i get the vid to the sw

edit: hmm, very interesting, i can actually walk around the room while in the sw state. so that means i can walk through the blocks/pillars, but not that cage that blocks half of tv. i walked around it in the lava, so that is very, very interesting... most like a little wallcrawl around the room

Liku

2006-04-22 01:31:48 am

Try finding "Secret Worlds" where they'd help for speed running, or you could make a new topic on them.

As for High Ground, I knew about that, though I use a much faster approach.

From the small ledge that's near the Second Artifact; you can get on the edge, jump and scan the switch, bringing the the platform over. From there, you jump across the first two platforms and jump to the one you just activated.

Been using it for a while now.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-22 01:53:10 am

yeah i'm trying too. but this is the 2nd sw so far in adventure mode, the other ones are either in multi-player, or wi-fi. the other one is in echo hall.

but we won't be able to use the sw's for speed running or low% runs until i get all the sw techniques down, like the floaty jump, wallcrawl, door warp, etc., plus it is kinda hard to find a sw for speed running; unless i'm lucky enough to find one in a room that can be sb'd.

i excpected that trick was found. i just tried it out to see if it worked, and it did. so i thought it was something new, but i suppose not.

edit: well, i tried the thermal vast "around the room" trick, and i noticed that the tunnels and their tunnels weren't there. they were just.. gone. so that means that wallcrawling will be a lot harder than we thought. if half the room will be gone, then that means that the room's boundaries won't load up until you actually trigger it, or go past it..

edit 2: okkaay, i remembered the "ledge jump" trick, and i walked off the "lava" ledge, in the sw, and i tried to use my second jump once i knew i would get to the very bottom of the "blank" space of the room, and die, and i was right there, i used my second jump on the very bottom of the room, but i still died when i did fell the rest of the way. so that means that most of the sw's will be useless, if we can't prevent ourselves from dieing when falling to the bottom of the room. if we ever want to make a sw useful, we will need to find a sw that starts from the top of the room, as opposed to the bottom.

i don't know if the sw actually kills you, when doing the ledge jump, but i just figured it out, with my DS right next to my laptop. so it may be possible to survive, if i can find a new method.

edit 3: here's the new sw:
notice the "lava" ledge, try to land on it and walk around the room. and if you can, try the ledge jump off the lava ledge, and try to prevent yourself from dieing at the bottom of the room.

yeah i'm trying too. but this is the 2nd sw so far in adventure mode, the other ones are either in multi-player, or wi-fi. the other one is in echo hall.

but we won't be able to use the sw's for speed running or low% runs until i get all the sw techniques down, like the floaty jump, wallcrawl, door warp, etc., plus it is kinda hard to find a sw for speed running; unless i'm lucky enough to find one in a room that can be sb'd.

i excpected that trick was found. i just tried it out to see if it worked, and it did. so i thought it was something new, but i suppose not.

edit: well, i tried the thermal vast "around the room" trick, and i noticed that the tunnels and their tunnels weren't there. they were just.. gone. so that means that wallcrawling will be a lot harder than we thought. if half the room will be gone, then that means that the room's boundaries won't load up until you actually trigger it, or go past it..

edit 2: okkaay, i remembered the "ledge jump" trick, and i walked off the "lava" ledge, in the sw, and i tried to use my second jump once i knew i would get to the very bottom of the "blank" space of the room, and die, and i was right there, i used my second jump on the very bottom of the room, but i still died when i did fell the rest of the way. so that means that most of the sw's will be useless, if we can't prevent ourselves from dieing when falling to the bottom of the room. if we ever want to make a sw useful, we will need to find a sw that starts from the top of the room, as opposed to the bottom.

i don't know if the sw actually kills you, when doing the ledge jump, but i just figured it out, with my DS right next to my laptop. so it may be possible to survive, if i can find a new method.

edit 3: here's the new sw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDJKnQY0Xyg
notice the "lava" ledge, try to land on it and walk around the room. and if you can, try the ledge jump off the lava ledge, and try to prevent yourself from dieing at the bottom of the room.

Mr Potter

2006-04-22 12:14:20 pm

Can you give me a list of the SWs? I don't know many or how to enter them.

I also got the unmorph-into-a-tunnel thing to work twice, both in Data Shrine in Multiplayer. I can't reproduce it again. >_<