sequence break and speed trick discussion

2006-04-07 08:44:33 pm

i think fighting slench 4 before 3 is a sequence breaking trick (i think) but it does qualify as "slench 4 before slench 3", and the fact that you got VD after fighting slench 4 does give some sb'ng to it...

Derek

2006-04-07 09:09:40 pm

Quote from Dr. Trence:

i think fighting slench 4 before 3 is a sequence breaking trick (i think) but it does qualify as "slench 4 before slench 3", and the fact that you got VD after fighting slench 4 does give some sb'ng to it...

I would doubt it, the game does nothing to stop you from doing it, its just like doing Arcterra before Vesper the first visit to each planet, its not in strictly the right order, but there is nothing special about it really.

I think it would help though to define what the standard "sequence" is though, in MP:H it branches near the beginning, but what I can recall goes like this (numbers indicate the first or second time through):
Celestial Arhives 1
....|
Alinos 1_______
....|.........|
Vesper 1...Arcterra 1
....|.........|
...CA 2....Alinos 2
..............|
..........Arcterra 2
..............|
...........Vesper 2

SAL

2006-04-07 09:58:42 pm

er... i fought pole V3 and then pole V4 right after.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-07 11:40:47 pm

Quote from SamusAranLuver:

er... i fought pole V3 and then pole V4 right after.

i fought slench V2 then slench V3 right after.

dang i hate the slench. good thing there's only one more version.

On a side note, has anyone figured out a way to hold the DS that doesnt kill your hands?

Derek

2006-04-07 11:57:27 pm

I put my right pinky under the bottom right corner and use that and my left hand to support the DS. It seems to work pretty well.

SAL

2006-04-08 12:00:44 am

i sit on a really relaxing chair that suports both elblows and put my pinky under the ds and when i need to boost i'll use the pinky...

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 12:47:34 am

Quote from Derek:

I put my right pinky under the bottom right corner and use that and my left hand to support the DS. It seems to work pretty well.

wow, that is weird, as i was playing my DS a few minutes ago, i just thought of making a reply to what lazylen asked, "have your pinky under the DS, with your ring finger laying on the a, x, y, b buttons" but for some reason, i didn't post it here, i thought that no one didn't want to know how you hold the DS... but oddly, lazylen made the same question i was thinking about, and you replied before i did, lol...

anyway, for my "3bj", i think it does work. i was in synergy core, and doing the bomb jump, near where the top ledge is, and i noticed that i got a MASSIVE boost from the current order of the bombs. but oddly, i didn't try to land on the ledge. and with me being a noob when i try to do a 3bj, that was the only time i noticed the boost. i'll make a vid of it but right now my cam-corder card is full, and i'm getting my dad to erase the other stuff on it, but sometime later tonight, if i'm still up, i'll give it to andrew so he can do his thing, but for now, i think my 3bj is official...

[quote="Derek"]I put my right pinky under the bottom right corner and use that and my left hand to support the DS. It seems to work pretty well.[/quote]
wow, that is weird, as i was playing my DS a few minutes ago, i just thought of making a reply to what lazylen asked, "have your pinky under the DS, with your ring finger laying on the a, x, y, b buttons" but for some reason, i didn't post it here, i thought that no one didn't want to know how you hold the DS... but oddly, lazylen made the same question i was thinking about, and you replied before i did, lol...

anyway, for my "3bj", i think it does work. i was in synergy core, and doing the bomb jump, near where the top ledge is, and i noticed that i got a MASSIVE boost from the current order of the bombs. but oddly, i didn't try to land on the ledge. and with me being a noob when i try to do a 3bj, that was the only time i noticed the boost. i'll make a vid of it but right now my cam-corder card is full, and i'm getting my dad to erase the other stuff on it, but sometime later tonight, if i'm still up, i'll give it to andrew so he can do his thing, but for now, i think my 3bj is official...

KirbyCubed

2006-04-08 01:12:16 am

-Beware of awful image quality! :P-

Also, this may exclude you from a 100% run, if the enemies appear only here.

A speed trick in the Ice Hive-

You know the Judicator blocked off wall with the UA expansion in it?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003826.jpg

Go to the right of it, up against the corner of the wall.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003827.jpg

Then, hold forward, and move the stylus around a bit, and you should worm your way up the corner of the wall. Once up, you can then walk across the slope to get to the missile expansion.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003828.jpg

After you get to the end, you will still have your jump left, so use it and get up to the missile expansion.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003829.jpg

After this, you can then go through the morph ball hole, and use this trick to skip the Boss battle against the War Wasps, as well as scanning the five or six scaning things.

This could save probably a minute or two.

Edit- Duh, I forgot to mention the other part. This allows you to also get the Judicator without the War Wasp fight.

-Beware of awful image quality! :P-

Also, this may exclude you from a 100% run, if the enemies appear only here.

A speed trick in the Ice Hive-

You know the Judicator blocked off wall with the UA expansion in it?
[url]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003826.jpg[/url]

Go to the right of it, up against the corner of the wall.
[url]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003827.jpg[/url]

Then, hold forward, and move the stylus around a bit, and you should worm your way up the corner of the wall.  Once up, you can then walk across the slope to get to the missile expansion.
[url]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003828.jpg[/url]

After you get to the end, you will still have your jump left, so use it and get up to the missile expansion.
[url]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/KirbyCubed/IM003829.jpg[/url]

After this, you can then go through the morph ball hole, and use this trick to skip the Boss battle against the War Wasps, as well as scanning the five or six scaning things.

This could save probably a minute or two.

Edit-  Duh, I forgot to mention the other part.  This allows you to also get the Judicator without the War Wasp fight.

primetime

2006-04-08 01:22:35 am

That was posted on the first post of the first page ya know. Well, except the part about skipping the war wasp fight (I had never thought about that). Skipping the fight is pretty neat though!

And to Dr. Trence: Could you explain how to do the 3bj a little better? I don't really understand what to do. :?

Oh, and also an easier way to get the missile is to just use the little boosty pad and angle it right so you land on the ledge. You can do this on the other side too to save a bit of time (but it's a lot trickier). I'm pretty sure this was mentioned too. ;)

KirbyCubed

2006-04-08 01:28:50 am

Ah, I didn't really read that post well enough to catch that. Go figure. :P

I'm still proud of myself to have figured it out on my own. It may have been found before, but at least I found it myself.

Also, I had thought (and done) of the bomb-jumping onto the blue tube things in Synergy Core to sequence break the normal order of getting the Battlehammer then Volt Driver, but alas, that was blocked by a Volt Driver door. I'm not claiming credit for it, just saying I'm happy to be thinking like a lot of you all.

Edit- At the mention of the boost pad- That was my original idea, but when I tried it out, I found out it was deactivated before the battle.

primetime

2006-04-08 01:34:00 am

Quote:

At the mention of the boost pad- Yeah, but the point was skipping the fight, and, before the fight, the pad is deactivated.

Oh yeah, haw *he says in a dumb guy voice*

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 01:41:02 am

Quote from primetime:

And to Dr. Trence: Could you explain how to do the 3bj a little better? I don't really understand what to do.

i'll make a vid of the 3bj tomorrow, but here's how to do it:

1: lay the first 3 bombs at a fast pace, but don't lay all of them at once, do it in a order
2: you will blast up in the air, and when you come down, you will blast up again
3: when you blast up the second time, lay the 3 bombs (so when you blast up again, lay a bomb on the bottom, middle, then the top)
4: if you did it in the right order, speed, etc., then you will get an MASSIVE boost.

the 3bj is much more complex than it is in the other prime games (well, at least in my opinion, since i'm not good at 3bj's) but if you did it in the right order, it will work. but sign's of the correct order is if you see the ball blast up "smoothly" when you lay the last 3 bombs, instead of it blasting up, falling down a little, then blast up again from the 2nd bomb. but i will make a vid of it tomorrow, i tried to record it tonight, but halfway through the recording, my card in the cam got full, so i'm going to get my dad or myself to empty it out tomorrow, then i will re-record it.

Quote from KurbyCubed:

Also, I had thought (and done) of the bomb-jumping onto the blue tube things in Synergy Core to sequence break the normal order of getting the Battlehammer then Volt Driver, but alas, that was blocked by a Volt Driver door. I'm not claiming credit for it, just saying I'm happy to be thinking like a lot of you all.

actually, i tried the same thing that you mentioned, (i'm pretty sure it was before you) but someone named liku told me that the top door was a volt driver door, but you can try to do a VERY complexed laddered bomb jump on the highest platform, (or my new 3bj) instead of using the tubes, but the trick would be useless since there is a vd door blocking the path. but yes, it's the thought of even trying that counts :D i'm still happy i found the judi-beam early, and the use-less sequence breaking trick, even though someone already found it

[quote="primetime"]And to Dr. Trence: Could you explain how to do the 3bj a little better? I don't really understand what to do.[/quote] 
i'll make a vid of the 3bj tomorrow, but here's how to do it:

1: lay the first 3 bombs at a fast pace, but don't lay all of them at once, do it in a order
2: you will blast up in the air, and when you come down, you will blast up again
3: when you blast up the second time, lay the 3 bombs (so when you blast up again, lay a bomb on the bottom, middle, then the top)
4: if you did it in the right order, speed, etc., then you will get an MASSIVE boost.

the 3bj is much more complex than it is in the other prime games (well, at least in my opinion, since i'm not good at 3bj's) but if you did it in the right order, it will work. but sign's of the correct order is if you see the ball blast up "smoothly" when you lay the last 3 bombs, instead of it blasting up, falling down a little, then blast up again from the 2nd bomb. but i will make a vid of it tomorrow, i tried to record it tonight, but halfway through the recording, my card in the cam got full, so i'm going to get my dad or myself to empty it out tomorrow, then i will re-record it.

[quote="KurbyCubed"]Also, I had thought (and done) of the bomb-jumping onto the blue tube things in Synergy Core to sequence break the normal order of getting the Battlehammer then Volt Driver, but alas, that was blocked by a Volt Driver door. I'm not claiming credit for it, just saying I'm happy to be thinking like a lot of you all.[/quote]
actually, i tried the same thing that you mentioned, (i'm pretty sure it was before you) but someone named liku told me that the top door was a volt driver door, but you can try to do a VERY complexed laddered bomb jump on the highest platform, (or my new 3bj) instead of using the tubes, but the trick would be useless since there is a vd door blocking the path. but yes, it's the thought of even trying that counts  :D  i'm still happy i found the judi-beam early, and the use-less sequence breaking trick, even though someone already found it

Liku

2006-04-08 03:43:55 am

Quote from KirbyCubed:

Also, I had thought (and done) of the bomb-jumping onto the blue tube things in Synergy Core to sequence break the normal order of getting the Battlehammer then Volt Driver, but alas, that was blocked by a Volt Driver door.

But your "discovery" is still useful, because it's faster jumping from the pipe onto the Jump Pad; rather than using the slow elevator.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-08 09:11:49 am

Quote from Dr. Trence:

Quote from Derek:

I put my right pinky under the bottom right corner and use that and my left hand to support the DS. It seems to work pretty well.

wow, that is weird, as i was playing my DS a few minutes ago, i just thought of making a reply to what lazylen asked, "have your pinky under the DS, with your ring finger laying on the a, x, y, b buttons" but for some reason, i didn't post it here, i thought that no one didn't want to know how you hold the DS... but oddly, lazylen made the same question i was thinking about, and you replied before i did, lol...

how does that even work? o.O

I dont have my Wi-Fi working yet, so im stuck with adventure mode. Im still using my thumbs for everything and my index fingers for the shoulder buttons. I have no problems controlling samus, but my left hand starts to ache real bad after a while.... (im in left handed dual mode because im left handed).

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 12:08:29 pm

you should use the stylus method, i'm left- handed too, but this method works okay with me... i actually tested all the different modes, but i still liked the stylus one, have you tried it yet?

rekameohs

2006-04-08 01:31:15 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

I use the right handed dual mode. It is easy on my hands and even without the stylus, it's still very easy to aim.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 02:17:32 pm

yeah but with rdm, you can only aim using the d-pad? or is it the buttons, anyway, with the stylus, you can aim pretty much anywhere on the screen, which makes it much easier if you're facing a slench boss, or hunter/guardian, i would say it might not be hard against the pole bosses, since the eye-ball things are in rows, and that they don't move at all (except for the cret. v4 version), but using the stylus in my opinion is much easier. but with the stylus, your right-hand gets a little swore after a while, and when i tested the other modes, i found that they were much more comfortable, but much harder to aim, shoot, jump, etc.

Liku

2006-04-08 02:19:24 pm

I hold my DS the regular way, using Stylus mode, but I don't use a stylus so I get the shoulder buttons easily.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 02:36:04 pm

so you use your thumb to scroll around the screen? or do you use the thumb stylus thing?

Liku

2006-04-08 03:16:43 pm

Thumb Nail, I play Classical Guitar so I have to keep it long, it makes a perfect stylus and feels natural.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-04-08 03:25:27 pm

Quote from Dr. Trence:

you should use the stylus method, i'm left- handed too, but this method works okay with me... i actually tested all the different modes, but i still liked the stylus one, have you tried it yet?

Well, it starts off on Right handed StylusM, so i played through Kanden and the first boss going nuts the entire time. man i hated that. -_-

it sucks that you can only change your controls at the ship.

I havent tried Left handed stylus, but i use lefthanded dual.

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 03:56:20 pm

wow, i just reliazed that we are talking about which hand mode is better... who cares eh'?

anyway, i just beat the game with the left handed stylus mode, almost thought about using the left handed dual mode, but i didn't want to waste anytime. but right now, i'm going to start my new speed run... my prediction is getting under 3 hours, then getting sub- 2 hours, and so on. i'm going to try to get the same time that mr potter got, which is 1:54, but that will take some time, but with the new speed tricks we found, i'm sure it won't be hard.

Liku

2006-04-08 04:35:55 pm

Quote from Dr. Trence:

i'm going to try to get the same time that mr potter got, which is 1:54,

Strange I though I got that time. lol

Dr. Trence

2006-04-08 04:39:52 pm

then what did he get? i thought you said you got 1:53, but your new time is 1:46 something..

Liku

2006-04-08 04:59:03 pm

I got 1:56, he then beat me with 1:55, I came back with 1:54 and he said that he must get 1:53. Then I got 1:46.