sequence break and speed trick discussion

2006-03-25 01:28:28 am

always move fast

post any speed tricks or sequence breaks that you discover, or things that you think could lead to something here. =D

in the snowy world, you can get the "30 increased ammo" thing with a dbj ladder from the sloped edge of the wall/ground into the hole in the tube above, rather than going through some tunnels and getting it the normal way (but im not sure how that is at the moment). naturally, you can get the "key" that is nearby as well.

also, there is a missile in the room with the safe door where you fight the bees. i am also not sure how to get it normally (though i saw a morph ball tunnel up there so im sure that comes from somewhere), but if you walk toward wall near its ledge, where the snow and wall meet, you can walk up it and then just jump right to the ledge.

thirdly, for the

judicator beam(?) (haven't checked what it does exactly yet)

, apparantly there is a morph ball path or something, but i couldn't figure it out, but you can instead do a very tricky dbj ladder around the corner from the little porch-like ledge sorta nearby.

that is all for now. :)

Thread title:

post any speed tricks or sequence breaks that you discover, or things that you think could lead to something here. =D

in the snowy world, you can get the "30 increased ammo" thing with a dbj ladder from the sloped edge of the wall/ground into the hole in the tube above, rather than going through some tunnels and getting it the normal way (but im not sure how that is at the moment).  naturally, you can get the "key" that is nearby as well.

also, there is a missile in the room with the safe door where you fight the bees.  i am also not sure how to get it normally (though i saw a morph ball tunnel up there so im sure that comes from somewhere), but if you walk toward wall near its ledge, where the snow and wall meet, you can walk up it and then just jump right to the ledge.

thirdly, for the [spoiler]judicator beam(?) (haven't checked what it does exactly yet)[/spoiler], apparantly there is a morph ball path or something, but i couldn't figure it out, but you can instead do a very tricky dbj ladder around the corner from the little porch-like ledge sorta nearby.

that is all for now. :)

Phazon Siphon

2006-03-25 01:32:27 am

Later on, on the planet Arcterra, you can avoid shooting down the large pillar by doing a good DBJ back to where you came from. It's quite hard though.

Maybe useful on a speed run.

ajbolt89

2006-03-25 02:31:16 am

lol no way

In the room High Ground on Alinos where you first encounter Spire, there is a sequene break allowing you to bypass a purple shield which would normally require the, er, "ice beam" weapon to open. [Judicator].
There's a high section that is right near where the third artifact in the room can be found, along one of the walls. Walk up the slope to where the artifact is/would be, then turn around and walk up the rest of the slope. This second part has a wall along the left side, to prevent you from falling down into the room; once at the top of the slope, walk along this thin wall, to the end (which is rounded, just so you know what I'm talking about). Turn right so you're facing the highest plateau there, which you'd normally go along a path in the wall to get to. Then, morph, perform a simple DBJ and then slide the stylus forward to boost in midair, and voila, you're on the platform.

I have no idea what implications this might have, but it does skip something. If anything exciting comes up for me maybe I'll post it in here; it opens up one door directly behind the shield that leads to the Combat Hall, and also allows you to scan a panel on the high platform that activates a platform, which unfortunately just leads to a Judicator locked door.
If anything, it should be noted that the DBJ->Boost in mid-air can be very useful; if you do a DBJ directly beneath a platform, then after the second bomb move away/next to the platform, and then boost right back onto it... you can really maneuver well with it.

EDIT: I've now read the post above this one, and it would appear the tricky DBJ they're referring to is the same type as I've done here, which is actually where I first discovered how to do it on my first playthrough because I COULD NOT find where to go. I think this technique needs a name though, and I dibs not making it up. I also dibs not giving anyone credit because it's really obvious.

In the room High Ground on Alinos where you first encounter Spire, there is a sequene break allowing you to bypass a purple shield which would normally require the, er, "ice beam" weapon to open. [Judicator].
There's a high section that is right near where the third artifact in the room can be found, along one of the walls. Walk up the slope to where the artifact is/would be, then turn around and walk up the rest of the slope. This second part has a wall along the left side, to prevent you from falling down into the room; once at the top of the slope, walk along this thin wall, to the end (which is rounded, just so you know what I'm talking about). Turn right so you're facing the highest plateau there, which you'd normally go along a path in the wall to get to. Then, morph, perform a simple DBJ and then slide the stylus forward to boost in midair, and voila, you're on the platform.

I have no idea what implications this might have, but it does skip something. If anything exciting comes up for me maybe I'll post it in here; it opens up one door directly behind the shield that leads to the Combat Hall, and also allows you to scan a panel on the high platform that activates a platform, which unfortunately just leads to a Judicator locked door.
If anything, it should be noted that the DBJ->Boost in mid-air can be very useful; if you do a DBJ directly beneath a platform, then after the second bomb move away/next to the platform, and then boost right back onto it... you can really maneuver well with it.

EDIT: I've now read the post above this one, and it would appear the tricky DBJ they're referring to is the same type as I've done here, which is actually where I first discovered how to do it on my first playthrough because I COULD NOT find where to go. I think this technique needs a name though, and I dibs not making it up. I also dibs not giving anyone credit because it's really obvious.

SABERinBLUE

2006-03-25 02:38:44 am

Cook of the Sea

Double Bomb Boost, DBB. Keep it simple, keep it safe.

Liku

2006-03-25 02:42:43 am

Because I didn't see this topic, I'll add from my topic to this:

On Oubliette, the final "planet," you don't need to go through the Morph Ball tunnel to get to the portal at the end of the room; instead you can just jump on the two rocks right next to the portal and get up.

In the room "Alinos Perch," on Alinos you can DBJ to the "exit" of the room where you get an Artifact, I don't believe there's a lock on the door so you could just enter and get the Artifact and UA Upgrade without having to do the activating of platforms and jumping through them.

WVI

2006-03-25 03:39:20 am

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Double Bomb Boost, DBB. Keep it simple, keep it safe.

Seconded.

primetime

2006-03-25 03:41:41 am

You can't get the artifact in Alino's perch by doing tha cuz there's a barrier around the artifact and the key to open the barrier is behind another white barrier (on the side you'd normally come through). :(

Liku

2006-03-25 04:16:08 am

Quote from primetime:

You can't get the artifact in Alino's perch by doing tha cuz there's a barrier around the artifact and the key to open the barrier is behind another white barrier (on the side you'd normally come through). :(

Damn, and I thought I was on to something. Thanks for the confirmation though.

Yoshi348

2006-03-25 11:46:23 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Gosh darnit, I don't want another 60 page+ topic where I can't find anything in a mound of posts like in the Echoes forum...

nate

2006-03-25 12:35:37 pm

is there an alternative? you can't organize something that doesn't exist yet.

bartendorsparky

2006-03-25 02:29:04 pm

always move fast

in the second space station level, part 2, after getting the key for the last artifact, you can do a dbj boost back up the platform rather than going around the paths again to get it.

Tahngarthor

2006-03-25 03:47:45 pm

Bangaa Bishop

In case anyone's trying to do a 100% and missed it, there is a UA tank near the shield key that requires a somewhat tricky (tricky to stay on the small platform) DBJ to reach. (Isn't this the only game where a DBJ propels you higher than you can jump normally?)

primetime

2006-03-25 05:59:14 pm

Instead of going through the long MB maze to get the Judicator, if you do a well executed dbj boost on the very end of the ledge with the pillars you can make it onto the platform with the Judicator on it.

EDIT: Oops, bartendor sparky already said that one..

BioSpark

2006-03-25 06:52:22 pm

My eyes hurt from reading. I dont think I'm even going to bother posting what I found.

SAL

2006-03-25 10:36:07 pm

In the room where exit off an yellow portal. Just go though the fake door go to your left or right the jump up on a small ledge and on the the bridge to go to the second yellow portal. Doing this allows you to skip the barrage of monsters and anoying drones and going though a long path.

primetime

2006-03-25 11:54:00 pm

In the room Dip Moat in Arcterra, instead of taking the slow moving platform to the other side, you can jump on one of the ledges on either side and roll along it in MB.

Tahngarthor

2006-03-26 12:11:05 am

Bangaa Bishop

Quote from primetime:

In the room Dip Moat in Arcterra, instead of taking the slow moving platform to the other side, you can jump on one of the ledges on either side and roll along it in MB.

There's also an ammo expansion right below the lift at the entrance that takes you to the other side. Also the damage you take in the liquid down there is trivial if you keep hopping repeatedly.

ajbolt89

2006-03-26 01:30:34 am

lol no way

I just want to make mention of the idea of morphing, then laying bombs at the peak of a jump pad. Pretty basic but I used it to get back up to a platform I'd accidentally fallen off of in Ice Hive. I suppose it would depend on the power of the jump pad, though.

Edit: In the same room, Ice Hive, I found a mini-speed trick: As soon as you enter the room you have to scan a power control switch, which then opens several more power switches up to scanning. Once they've been scanned, a battle with some barbed war wasps ensues, and once they have been killed, a console is activated, as well as an inactive jump pad below where you enter the room.
Normally you'd use this jump pad to bump up to where the door is, then you'd walk through a small tunnel to the console and scan it to open a door.
The "trick" I found is: Rather than going up normally and going through the tunnel, if you morph and push against the side of the jump pad closest to the console, then almost instantly after you begin your ascent boost toward the console, you can very easily make it up next to it, unmorph, and scan it.
When/if speedrunning gets real on this game, that's a trick that looks cool, is easy, and saves... five or so seconds.

Erp, Edit 2: As soon as I'd posted the previous edit, I had another idea.
After scanning the console, you can do the very same boost trick on the opposite side of the jump pad to land right next to (or I suppose possibly right on) a missile pack. Since you're already morphed, you can then roll along the ledge and into the hole in the wall. This places you on the other side of a purple shield, allowing you to reach a ship deck portal marginally earlier than you normally would, as well as get some scans.
Unfortunately, there is a shield barring access to the nearby artifact, but I suppose that, once getting the Judicator in the room, you could, rather than going through the purple shield and along this normal path to the missile tank/artifact, you could drop down the hole by the purple shield/entrance door, possibly morph beforehand, and land on the jump pad to do a quick boost right up to the missile.
If anything, that too will save a bit of time.

Edit 3: In the same room still, Ice Hive on the planet Arcterra, I've found a potential "real" sequence break, rather than just speed trick, although again, it's minor.
Once you've opened up the door using the previously mentioned scannable console, it becomes a ramp into a small cave. In this cave there is a Blue War Wasp; Destroy it and its hive. I also want to mention to people going for 100% scans that there are two scans in here, of two apparently different "crystal" shards.
Anyway, if you look up, you'll see an ice bride, as well as a small purple shield. Next to this purple shield, on the underside of the wall it is on, is a hole you would normally use to drop out. If you get up on the sloped wall you can do a DbjB (Double Bomb Jump Boost) into the hole, and get a quick UA Expansion. Then, off to the side is a turret, which, once destroyed reveals a shield key. This allows you to grab the artifact just below the turret, as well as removing the previously mentioned shield by the turret to the ship dock.
This pretty much just allows you to get the artifact and UA expansion without the Judicator, which isn't really an extremely substantial break but is still pretty neat in my opinion.

And I am suddenly made aware that all of this has been mentioned by sparky.

;[

I just want to make mention of the idea of morphing, then laying bombs at the peak of a jump pad. Pretty basic but I used it to get back up to a platform I'd accidentally fallen off of in Ice Hive. I suppose it would depend on the power of the jump pad, though.

Edit: In the same room, Ice Hive, I found a mini-speed trick: As soon as you enter the room you have to scan a power control switch, which then opens several more power switches up to scanning. Once they've been scanned, a battle with some barbed war wasps ensues, and once [i]they[/i] have been killed, a console is activated, as well as an inactive jump pad below where you enter the room.
Normally you'd use this jump pad to bump up to where the door is, then you'd walk through a small tunnel to the console and scan it to open a door.
The "trick" I found is: Rather than going up normally and going through the tunnel, if you morph and push against the side of the jump pad closest to the console, then almost instantly after you begin your ascent boost toward the console, you can very easily make it up next to it, unmorph, and scan it. 
When/if speedrunning gets real on this game, that's a trick that looks cool, is easy, and saves... five or so seconds.

Erp, Edit 2: As soon as I'd posted the previous edit, I had another idea.
After scanning the console, you can do the very same boost trick on the opposite side of the jump pad to land right next to (or I suppose possibly right on) a missile pack. Since you're already morphed, you can then roll along the ledge and into the hole in the wall. This places you on the other side of a purple shield, allowing you to reach a ship deck portal marginally earlier than you normally would, as well as get some scans.
Unfortunately, there is a shield barring access to the nearby artifact, but I suppose that, once getting the Judicator in the room, you could, rather than going through the purple shield and along this normal path to the missile tank/artifact, you could drop down the hole by the purple shield/entrance door, possibly morph beforehand, and land on the jump pad to do a quick boost right up to the missile.
If anything, that too will save a bit of time.

Edit 3: In the same room still, Ice Hive on the planet Arcterra, I've found a potential "real" sequence break, rather than just speed trick, although again, it's minor.
Once you've opened up the door using the previously mentioned scannable console, it becomes a ramp into a small cave. In this cave there is a Blue War Wasp; Destroy it and its hive. I also want to mention to people going for 100% scans that there are two scans in here, of two apparently different "crystal" shards.
Anyway, if you look up, you'll see an ice bride, as well as a small purple shield. Next to this purple shield, on the underside of the wall it is on, is a hole you would normally use to drop out. If you get up on the sloped wall you can do a DbjB (Double Bomb Jump Boost) into the hole, and get a quick UA Expansion. Then, off to the side is a turret, which, once destroyed reveals a shield key. This allows you to grab the artifact just below the turret, as well as removing the previously mentioned shield by the turret to the ship dock. 
This pretty much just allows you to get the artifact and UA expansion without the Judicator, which isn't really an extremely substantial break but is still pretty neat in my opinion.

And I am suddenly made aware that all of this has been mentioned by sparky.

;[

Mr Potter

2006-03-26 12:27:14 pm

In Thermal Vast on Alinos, instead of using the very slow platforms to cross the room, just hop across the rocks in the lava. Then do a DBJ onto the platform with the tunnel.

Quote:

On Oubliette, the final "planet," you don't need to go through the Morph Ball tunnel to get to the portal at the end of the room; instead you can just jump on the two rocks right next to the portal and get up.

There's a morph ball tunnel? Shocked

Crap... I did a speed trick on my first visit through the game. >_<

nate

2006-03-26 12:31:47 pm

"you know it's a metroid game when ..."

Liku

2006-03-26 02:47:16 pm

Quote from Mr Potter:

There's a morph ball tunnel? Shocked

Crap... I did a speed trick on my first visit through the game. >_<

Yup, kinda easy to miss if you just walk through, but as soon as you enter, on the right's a hole for the Morph Ball. It leads you through those "branches" that cross over the top as you walk through.

radu242

2006-03-27 04:06:54 pm

Erm, a small speed trick.
In the the first Incubation Vault (01) you can actually bomb up there(from the bottom), and, when you're right at the edge of the top, unmorph. You'll get a bit of boost which will help you up to the top.

EDIT: Rephrase:
In the first Incubation Vault (01), if you want to get from the bottom "floor: to the top, go to a wall that if you get on top, will lead you to the rest of the top "floor". DBJ along its side, and at the very top, unmorph. If it give you the boost you need to get up there with out all the portals.

Mr Potter

2006-03-27 05:51:19 pm

I've been thinking, and the Shock Coil is definitely the best possibility for skipping an item. Here's the way I see it:

Battlehammer: Needed for one of the Slenches, Battlehammer gates
Judicator: Needed for one of the Slenches, Judicator gates
Magmaul: Needed for one of the Slenches, Magmaul gates
Imperialist: Needed for Imperialist doors/targets
Volt Driver: Needed for a Volt Driver door, a few Volt Driver gates
Shock Coil: Needed for a Shock Coil gate

That's right. There is only one Shock Coil gate in the game that you absolutely have to get past. It's the one in Incubation Vault 03. You need it to access the portal that sends you to the rest of the level. However, there are secret worlds in Hunters already where you can pop through the wall and into a secret world. It is reasonable that this could work with normal walls that don't lead to a secret world. If we could pop through the wall near the portal, or find a secret world in IC03, we could skip the Shock Coil. We would need it for getting to the portal and also getting out, so a secret world would need to have entrances on both sides.

I've been thinking, and the Shock Coil is definitely the best possibility for skipping an item. Here's the way I see it:

Battlehammer: Needed for one of the Slenches, Battlehammer gates
Judicator: Needed for one of the Slenches, Judicator gates
Magmaul: Needed for one of the Slenches, Magmaul gates
Imperialist: Needed for Imperialist doors/targets
Volt Driver: Needed for a Volt Driver door, a few Volt Driver gates
Shock Coil: Needed for a Shock Coil gate

That's right. There is only one Shock Coil gate in the game that you absolutely have to get past. It's the one in Incubation Vault 03. You need it to access the portal that sends you to the rest of the level. However, there are secret worlds in Hunters already where you can pop through the wall and into a secret world. It is reasonable that this could work with normal walls that don't lead to a secret world. If we could pop through the wall near the portal, or find a secret world in IC03, we could skip the Shock Coil. We would need it for getting to the portal and also getting out, so a secret world would need to have entrances on both sides.

Liku

2006-03-28 02:06:19 am

Quote from bartendorsparky:

also, there is a missile in the room with the safe door where you fight the bees. i am also not sure how to get it normally (though i saw a morph ball tunnel up there so im sure that comes from somewhere), but if you walk toward wall near its ledge, where the snow and wall meet, you can walk up it and then just jump right to the ledge.

There's an easier and much quicker way. Once the Jump Pad's activated, you can use it to jump up to the Expansion.

radu242

2006-03-29 04:04:46 pm

I found that the DBJ (and/or unmorph boost) can get you many places in a short amount of time. They probably didn't figure, as I got in the "real" bee hive (in the I need help topic) backwards, from the big portal to in. We might just SB just with DJB and unmorph boost!