New 100% Route

2013-07-11 12:27:49 pm

I guess? I mean, one of the reasons you'd do imago early is so when you get supers on your way out of ridley, you can save them for tourian instead of having to save like 5-8 for imago, making skipping the pre-tourian refill much easier.

kirbymastah

2013-07-12 10:49:35 am

I tried out some early imago with the AWS route, without refilling. It's viable but RNG/drop based. Good thing is, you don't have to commit to early/late imago until just before cocoon, and you can judge whether to go for it or not depending on your missile count.

Dfangs and I basically agreed that coming into cocoon with around 30 missiles, 6 supers should be reliably enough to take out cocoon with only missiles, then take out imago early. (35 missiles, 5 supers should be reliable too). IF not, then just do imago late as usual.

ZX497

2013-07-20 05:49:35 am

Saves about 2 seconds compared to just waiting for the searchlights, and a little less than that compared to refreshing the searchlight positions. Loses around 2 seconds if you get caught, and it's fairly tricky to do... but I guess it's of use at least for segmented.

ZX497

2013-07-26 10:11:33 am

So I didn't actually need to make a video out of this, but whatever. No more snipes in that long room.

samthedigital

Edit history:

samthedigital: 2013-07-26 02:17:43 pm

2013-07-26 02:01:18 pm

This is cool. I found a way to make it work for any% also.

For anyone that actually cares lol.

ZX497

2013-07-26 03:23:20 pm

Cool to see the strat in action :)

kirbymastah

2013-07-29 11:44:28 am

uh wut. I never knew charge beam drew in the bombos, like in the prime games LMAO

spidey-widey

2013-07-30 01:42:55 am

That's news to me too. Nice find. (Even more reason to grab charge beam in any%. :P)

Mobiusman

Edit history:

Mobiusman: 2013-07-30 12:41:32 pm

2013-07-30 11:34:22 am

trying to make tiny optimisations to room orders in kraid. as of right now, I'm doing this (for 100% SS without HBJ):

full early brinstar, no long
don't get the kraid save room missile
late kraid cleanup
refill at space jump
do get the kraid zipline etank
refill at screw attack
top norfair
early imago

I'm considering switching to this:

full early brinstar, no long
do get the kraid save room missile
late kraid cleanup
attempt to not refill at space jump
don't get the kraid zipline etank
refill at screw attack
top norfair
early imago

does that sound better?

ZX497

2013-08-02 12:37:13 pm

The Kraid save room missile should always be gotten early, in my opinion, you barely save anything getting it late, if even that. Skipping the zipline e-tank is a definitive gain for any route which refills at Screw. Early Imago with top Norfair clean-up sounds a little crazy, you'll be going in with 4 Supers... if you can do the quick kill reliably, sure, go for it.

All in all it sounds better... but I think early Norfair Super compliments the early Imago kill really well, so, maybe switch to that route? It'd allow you to quite easily skip refilling at Screw too, at least if you get the zipline E-tank.

kirbymastah

2013-08-02 12:47:04 pm

No reason not to get the kraid save room missile tank early unless you need the 5 missiles :P Definitely get it if you're doing AWS or early kraid cleanup, you desperately need every missile tank for those. If not, then it's probably better to leave it for later.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-08-02 01:04:19 pm

2013-08-02 01:02:55 pm

You're not saving time getting it late, though... so, why postpone it? Extra missiles early on are always handy. I mean, I can't think of a single redeeming factor for leaving this tank behind, regardless of your route or situation.

Mobiusman

2013-08-02 01:06:03 pm

the reason to get the save tank late is so that you can go right when you enter kraid instead of going left then right.

similarly, I don't think getting the zipline tank late with my current route saves any time because the way I'm doing it now, I can just go left when I return to kraid instead of going right then left. Plus I don't get to shinespark up to the elevator.

Early imago is pretty consistent with 4 supers. And to be honest I hate the early super >_>

ZX497

2013-08-02 01:14:34 pm

Hmmm, yeah I guess routing-wise, getting it late would save maybe a second... But that's all negated due to you having 5 less missiles when going towards Acid Worm, you're not gonna be loaded for that fight unless you farm a little. If you're skipping Acid Worm, you're gonna be going left anyway, so there's still no point to skip it :/

ZX497

2013-08-02 01:20:44 pm

Oh yeah, for early Brinstar! Then skipping it might actually make sense, cause you will have the missiles to spare... kind of.

Dragonfangs

2013-08-02 04:46:57 pm

Saving the save room missile only make sense if you're confident in your ammo for the rest of Kraid, and even then it's a really small time saving thing. With full early Brinstar you should be loaded anyway though.

About the zipline E-tank. Even disregarding consistently hitting the zip trigger early and breaking enough blocks to not morph, space boost across the hallway should at least be equal to the vertical shinespark.

Mobiusman

Edit history:

Mobiusman: 2013-08-02 05:19:15 pm

2013-08-02 05:18:09 pm

yeah, I very easily have enough missiles for acid worm without getting that tank. But I was wondering if getting the tank would make not refilling before the boss consistentish. I'm leaning towards no, tbh.

space boost across the hallway saves no time because if I get the tank early, I don't have to cross the hallway in the first place...

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-08-19 07:55:10 pm

ZX497: 2013-08-19 07:37:21 pm

ZX497: 2013-08-19 07:35:49 pm

ZX497: 2013-08-19 06:43:21 pm

ZX497: 2013-08-19 05:30:35 pm

ZX497: 2013-08-19 05:30:32 pm

2013-08-19 05:29:26 pm

So, yeah. Basically what this means, is that there's another possibility for Chozodia clean-up now, since you can get this E-tank early. Go out of Chozodia through the bottom yellow door, pick up all the items on the way, then when you re-enter Chozodia from the top yellow door at the end of clean-up, never leave again. Tons less door transitions.

EDIT:

Testing by Dragonfangs suggests this route is about 7 seconds slower in-game, and 5 seconds faster in real time. Everybody loves discrepancies, right? ;)

EDIT2:

Right, so, there's an even faster way to do this. The bottom of the E-tank room is covered with just a thin layer of Speed Booster blocks... so, you can just break those with a diagonal shinespark, Space Jump up, and fall back down, instead of going around (You can even Space Boost straight up in the E-tank room through those blocks, when you just bonk your head on the ceiling with one jump, then jump again right under the blocks). The bad thing is, to make the most use of this minor tweak, you gotta leave the PB tank on the right for later... which means, you won't have enough PBs for the regular stuff.
The only way a real time run can assure completion, is by doing the tricky method for the Crateria PB-tank, and leaving the PB blocks near the elevator intact. Dragondarch's very long shinespark chain through Crateria might make a triumphant return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0bOArNO5PI

So, yeah. Basically what this means, is that there's another possibility for Chozodia clean-up now, since you can get this E-tank early. Go out of Chozodia through the bottom yellow door, pick up all the items on the way, then when you re-enter Chozodia from the top yellow door at the end of clean-up, never leave again. Tons less door transitions.

EDIT:

Testing by Dragonfangs suggests this route is about 7 seconds slower in-game, and 5 seconds faster in real time. Everybody loves discrepancies, right? ;)

EDIT2:

Right, so, there's an even faster way to do this. The bottom of the E-tank room is covered with just a thin layer of Speed Booster blocks... so, you can just break those with a diagonal shinespark, Space Jump up, and fall back down, instead of going around (You can even Space Boost straight up in the E-tank room through those blocks, when you just bonk your head on the ceiling with one jump, then jump again right under the blocks). The bad thing is, to make the most use of this minor tweak, you gotta leave the PB tank on the right for later... which means, you won't have enough PBs for the regular stuff.
The only way a real time run can assure completion, is by doing the tricky method for the Crateria PB-tank, and leaving the PB blocks near the elevator intact. Dragondarch's very long shinespark chain through Crateria might make a triumphant return.

Dragonfangs

2013-08-20 09:03:00 am

GAIS, IT LOOKS LIKE DIS:

kirbymastah

2013-08-20 06:33:52 pm

dang how much time would this save then? :O

Mobiusman

2013-08-20 07:51:16 pm

none

except in races, where it's lots

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-08-21 01:29:28 am

2013-08-21 01:16:41 am

In other words, the latest timing Dragonfangs did, was that it's a 7 second gain for real time, and a 5 second loss for in-game time. If you manage to get a Power Bomb drop before leaving Chozodia, that's an extra ~2-3 seconds of gain for both.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2014-02-09 07:06:20 am

ZX497: 2014-02-09 07:04:49 am

2013-09-16 07:05:34 am

Consistent. Getting damage boosted the right way at start is a little bit tricky, but you can make due with other scenarios.

And here's one for any% to boot. Did it using the debug-rom so the doors look different, but the strat works the same.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2014-02-14 04:17:46 am

2014-02-14 04:14:30 am

Speedrunner

Is anyone test out that and count how much time this is faster or slower?

This seems pretty much as fast as bomb jumps route. I did horrible looking route test run and i got 29:04 in Tourian. Only 1:04 lost my best segmented (56:51) run. Though i lost at least one minutes or so mistakes only with my gameplay. So this seems this route could be even faster than bomb jump route at least with normal mode. On hardmode its seems you need this energy tank in norfair so bomb jump route could be more useful here.

Dragonfangs

2014-02-14 10:58:38 am

Commonly referred to as "Late Brinstar". I tested it when all the route things were happening, and it came out to almost no difference, I think it was ~2 seconds slower (?). Basically, do whatever you feel comfortable with, if you're already grabbing long beam early definitely do this route.