New 100% Route

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-16 11:28:19 am

2013-04-16 11:27:38 am

Just get in the lava, position yourself under the hole, hold A, and just as the morph ball is about to break through the lava-surface, start laying bombs with regular bomb jump timing. Double bomb-jump timing works too, and is optimally better, but for safety I'm just gonna do singles there, lol.

Mobiusman

2013-04-16 11:32:58 am

I had the same thought of going through the bottom of kraid with this route, thanks for testing it kirby. It looks fun for sure.

Also, I lold when you froze the ripper

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-16 11:34:30 am

2013-04-16 11:33:04 am

How about you grab that missile tank on your visit to Kraid? That'd mean after the vertical shinespark, you could just go straight to Norfair, instead of shinesparking back and forth? I guess you'd still have to shinespark back and forth on your first visit too, but on the plus side, you could afterwards use that spark for the zipline room. Might be worth it for the AWS route, considering that route would have to spark across the zipline room anyway.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-16 11:36:18 am

kirbymastah: 2013-04-16 11:35:29 am

kirbymastah: 2013-04-16 11:34:53 am

2013-04-16 11:34:33 am

Hm it could be useful for the AWS route since, as you mentioned, you have to shinespark across anyways. Without getting that missile tank before cleanup, how would you get the shinespark?

I doubt that would save 7 seconds to make route #2 ultimately faster, but still a good thought. Also very fun ;)

Dragonfangs

2013-04-16 11:35:00 am

If you're talking about the tank I think you are Zx, that would only make sense with AWS. You don't even enter that room otherwise. The route would still be slower I think, but that would speed it up a bit.

kirbymastah

2013-04-16 11:37:14 am

Quote from Mobiusman:

Also, I lold when you froze the ripper

It's funny because I recorded kraid route #1 first, and I accidentally froze it while shooting the switch, and I just used it conveniently. Then when I recorded kraid route #2, I realized that I can spring ball up to it haha.

ZX497

2013-04-16 11:38:03 am

I edited my earlier post to include the second part of the Norfair-route.

Dragondarch

2013-04-16 11:38:25 am

Quote from ZX497:

Cause it just... is? The routes are within 6 seconds of each other, and those 2 extra Supers make up at least 8 on Imago Cocoon, Ridley and Tourian.

Huh.

Way back when I was the only one routing this category (and the only references available were AJ and Scarlet's 100% Hard runs), I had eliminated that early Super from the route since it seemed a bit faster to do that whole room during cleanup, and it didn't feel like having them saved that much time overall.

TBH, that's why the old 100% Normal route backtracked through Kraid...the Hard 100% run did it, and was the sole reference back then.

Dragonfangs

2013-04-16 11:38:41 am

You could also just walk to the right after getting the zipline missile and go through a few rooms nobody's been in for years. It saves about a second realtime but loses ~3 seconds ingame time.

Dragondarch

2013-04-16 11:41:03 am

Quote from Dragonfangs:

You could also just walk to the right after getting the zipline missile and go through a few rooms nobody's been in for years. It saves about a second realtime but loses ~3 seconds ingame time.

I actually played around with some stuff the other night, and visited ALL those rooms Razz

ZX497

2013-04-16 11:42:56 am

Haha, yeah. I even routed a bizarro strategy for that room, where you'd actually go through the zipline-missile room on your first visit to Kraid, just so you could blow up the missile block there. Then on clean-up, you could enter that room from the wrong direction and do the clean-up :P

It almost worked too. Almost.

Dragonfangs

2013-04-16 11:47:01 am

And if you like numbers: Doing the bomb jump out of the lava is a 3 frame window for the first bomb, it needs to be placed 7-9 frames after you start jumping, which is pretty much the same timing as doing two beam shots or two bombs perfectly right after each other.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-16 12:05:51 pm

2013-04-16 12:03:42 pm

For getting the early super in norfair, here's a good strat for the shinespark:

EDIT: Also, I just watched ZX's new norfair route video. So is it faster to follow the route you laid out even if you refill maybe in wave beam?

ZX497

2013-04-16 12:05:41 pm

Yeah that seems like it saves maybe 3 seconds over what I did, haha.

Dragondarch

2013-04-16 12:10:11 pm

Oh, I should mention for the new Kraid cleanup route, you can deal with those Mega Sidehoppers in the same manner we do for the current Norfair cleanup route (Charge before entering the room). 2nd one is a different beast though.

Mobiusman

2013-04-16 12:12:51 pm

re: zx's second video, I thought we decided the cannon was slower?

kirbymastah

2013-04-16 12:17:01 pm

Quote from Mobiusman:

re: zx's second video, I thought we decided the cannon was slower?

Yeah the cannon should be skipped in the second video. He probably just missed our post about it or something.

ZX497

2013-04-16 12:17:36 pm

Yeah, it is a tiny bit slower, but it's very negligible. When I timed them, I honestly couldn't see the difference, so I figured I'll just take the cannon cause there's always a possibility to screw up mid-air morph -> Space Jump, or just a jump in general.

kirbymastah

2013-04-16 12:19:58 pm

I timed it to be about a half second slower to take the cannon. So I guess it's up to personal preference; I can understand someone taking the cannon to not take the risk of messing up a space jump or something.

ZX497

2013-04-16 12:21:37 pm

Yeah. Like there's basically no way you'll drop even tenth of a second with the cannon, but it's fairly easy to drop time when you actually have to do stuff, haha.

Mobiusman

2013-04-16 12:22:38 pm

okay. from what I can tell, the delayed kraid cleanup isn't worthwhile until AWS is consistent (hahaha), but I'll definitely try out the alternate norfair route. Not sure what you mean kirby about refilling at wave, why would you refill there?

Dragonfangs

2013-04-16 12:26:17 pm

Delayed Kraid cleanup is still ~3 seconds faster in game (8 seconds slower real time). AWS or not.

ZX497

2013-04-16 12:40:12 pm

Kirby means if you're low on Supers when you enter the Wave-room, cause you didn't get a Super drop from anything after blowing two on the big sidehopper. If supers are the only thing you're short on at that point (you'd have 3 at minimum), it's NOT worth to refill there, considering the extra supers would only save maybe 3 seconds on Imago Cocoon, and the recharge station would take around 6 seconds.

If you're low on health, it's still up in the air if you wanna refill... the big sidehopper is very generous with health drops. But I guess if it was a race, I'd do it.

If you gotta refill there, then the route is probably a little slower than the other route. But on the other hand, same goes for the other route too: if you gotta take an extra refill, you lose time. So in the end, it's not really a route issue.

kirbymastah

2013-04-16 02:13:31 pm

So basically the route that skips the heated double-missile tank room, and gets early super in norfair instead, is faster primarily because you can skip all refill stations in norfair?

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-16 02:25:43 pm

ZX497: 2013-04-16 02:21:39 pm

2013-04-16 02:21:08 pm

If both routes take the same amount of stations, bottom clean-up should be faster. And it's also easier to skip all the stations with it.

Somebody else should time it too, btw.

Oh yeah, and when I timed them, I actually Space Boosted back and forth the room for the top clean-up, so if you're not doing that, the bottom route should be even quicker.