New 100% Route

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ZX497: 2013-04-09 03:58:55 pm

2013-04-09 03:52:39 pm

Wow that's really good. It didn't even occur to me to shinespark that small distance between the breakable wall and the diagonal shinespark spot... good thinking!

EDIT:

Btw, it's possible to Space Boost back from that Super Missile room we discussed about! You just have to grab the missile tank on your first pass: Space Boost on top of the ceiling, then just when you're about to touch the missile block, just push shoot. And yeah, doing that is actually faster than doing a shinespark on the way back, even though you have to cut your first Space Boost a bit short.

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-09 03:59:48 pm

2013-04-09 03:58:03 pm

Norfair Cleanup Route, with mobiusman's route #2

This cleanup route assumes you grab the early super missile tank & missile tank past the green door BEFORE Ridley. I don't know if it's faster, but I'm sure that the strats I use here are the fastest possible on-console. I'll put up a norfair cleanup route #1 video soon, so it'll be a bit easier to time.

EDIT: Oh wow, yeah you're right about that, you can definitely do that then, since the space you cut off the space boost isn't much at all. That would definitely save time.

2013-04-09 04:05:07 pm

Hm... I see. Very interesting. =) I gotta relearn how to space boost though lol, not used to it. <_<

2013-04-09 04:06:56 pm

At least it isn't metroid fusion where you have to charge your beam and press R to open doors while timing every jump haha

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Thomaz: 2013-04-09 04:11:48 pm

2013-04-09 04:09:01 pm

So, I'm sorry, I missed it, but what is this early Super Missile Tank you guys are tolkien about?

Edit: I think I know which one it is. It's gotten in Hard, right? Going right instead of going left after Screw, right? God, I hate that bomb jump. =(

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ZX497: 2013-04-09 04:18:45 pm

2013-04-09 04:18:07 pm

Yeah, that one. The easiest thing to do there, is to morph in lava, hold the jump button, then just as your morph ball is about to hit lava again, you start tapping B with the exact same timing required for Single Bomb Jumping. It'll pick you right up on your next jump!

Not to mention, the route doesn't actually require for you to get this expansion early, you can save it for later. Naturally, the downside is that you have two less Supers for everything, but it doesn't make anything extra costly, time-wise. Even Imago can still be 1-rounded (needs 6 Supers and 7 regular missiles).

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-09 04:41:47 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-09 04:39:57 pm

2013-04-09 04:39:03 pm

Route #1 for Norfair Cleanup

omg charge beam has another use in 100%!

Also, using the cannon is on average, a bit more than one in-game second slower than just space jumping / screw attacking back up. Someone else can feel free to test it though, but I'm confident using the cannon is slower (but also a lot easier :P)

Dragonfangs

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Dragonfangs: 2013-04-09 06:54:04 pm

2013-04-09 06:49:15 pm

That strategy for the Crateria Power Bomb is faster period, in the old route as well. It's already what the (5 year old) TAS does. I was kind of surprised you guys weren't doing it before.

For that space boost back from the super missile room, you can just do a diagonal shot while running out... we have Wave beam now.

And I can confirm that the cannon is slower than simply jumping up through the screw attack blocks.

Also Kirby, the extra shinespark you do right before the ballspark at the end of Norfair is slower. Just do a short jump and start running for a new speed boost. It's almost a second difference.

2013-04-09 07:53:23 pm

Thanks for the videos kirby, they are pretty much exactly what I had in mind. And in general, props to everyone for the super enthusiastic response. I'm excited to see some new PBs from you guys.

For now at least I'm definitely going to continue using route #1. It's worth noting that both routes synergise well with ZX's brinstar route - since in either case you're skipping a hot room, you almost always have enough energy to not heal at hijump.

2013-04-10 06:47:45 am

So after a bit of testing, I think I'm actually gonna go with a variation of the two routes. I'll do late Ice, with early Super from Norfair. So far that route has shown me the most promise. The early Super really compliments the late Ice route, cause Imago Cocoon is such a pain in the behind otherwise. Not to mention, since you actually get extra supers using this route, Ridley and the entirety of Tourian are faster.

2013-04-10 07:14:15 am

lol, have fun with late Ice. I tried to do it once in SS. I think I've had the worst Norfair - Ridley I've ever had. <_<

Anyway, I did a quick SS to try and incoorporate every new thing I could. Run was terribad, but I don't care. It was interesting. I got the Super + ME in the heated room during clean up, but the only thing that route-change did, was making sure I had enough Supers for Imago (which didn't actually improve anything really). I also didn't get the PB tank on the right side after breaking the glass, but because of that, I didn't have enough PBs later on. I also got the ME before Hive Room during the first clean up but failed miserably because I forgot how to do it (I have it on tape though, so I can easily check).

Also, Tourian isn't necessarily faster. It's only faster if you get lucky on Super refills lol. =P

Anyway, I'm REALLY REALLY interested in how much time is saved if this route is used. I realise it's way too early to say anything on that subject, because it's hard to tell, but still. Right now, I'm at the stage where I know I should be able to get a really low 55:XX in SS, but it just hasn't happened yet. =/ So even if I use "the new route", I can't be sure. =P

Maybe I should do a quick segmented run to see what time I can get with this?

lol, have fun with late Ice. I tried to do it once in SS. I think I've had the worst Norfair - Ridley I've ever had. <_<

Anyway, I did a quick SS to try and incoorporate every new thing I could. Run was terribad, but I don't care. It was interesting. I got the Super + ME in the heated room during clean up, but the only thing that route-change did, was making sure I had enough Supers for Imago (which didn't actually improve anything really). I also didn't get the PB tank on the right side after breaking the glass, but because of that, I didn't have enough PBs later on. I also got the ME before Hive Room during the first clean up but failed miserably because I forgot how to do it (I have it on tape though, so I can easily check).

Also, Tourian isn't necessarily faster. It's only faster if you get lucky on Super refills lol. =P

Anyway, I'm REALLY REALLY interested in how much time is saved if this route is used. I realise it's way too early to say anything on that subject, because it's hard to tell, but still. Right now, I'm at the stage where I know I should be able to get a really low 55:XX in SS, but it just hasn't happened yet. =/ So even if I use "the new route", I can't be sure. =P

Maybe I should do a quick segmented run to see what time I can get with this?

2013-04-10 07:30:08 am

I don't think late Ice actually changes things much at all. I mean, by the time you get to Norfair, you'll have all the missiles you want, you can just shoot everything with them... not to mention, you get Screw Attack very shortly after entering Norfair. The only parts where it does matter, are the Imago Cocoon fight, and the little section in Ridley with those two orbs circling around a pillar.

As for a segmented run, sure, go for it, especially if you got a segmented time of your own to compare against!

2013-04-10 07:33:39 am

I know this is gonna sound silly, but the absolute worst thing that happened was that I was unable to get back up after beating Ridley. XD I somehow butchered the DBJs constantly. :X You just have to hope that the bug leaves a refill (same for the ME on the right side of Ridley).

2013-04-10 07:37:20 am

The bug actually doesn't spawn at all, if you just go to the smack middle of that pipe, even if there's no refill on screen.

2013-04-10 07:43:44 am

Quote from ZX497:

the little section in Ridley with those two orbs circling around a pillar.

do you freeze them? the walljump is not hard. :p

I guess everyone's going to be doing norfair differently for a while until the dust settles. which is awesome! it's less fun when a category is "solved".

2013-04-10 07:52:51 am

Yeah I do usually freeze them. I know the walljump is not hard, it's just that any% has taught me to do so for safety, lol.

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2013-04-10 08:13:02 am

Thomaz: 2013-04-10 08:12:26 am

2013-04-10 08:12:06 am

lol, same here. At least you have Screw Attack in 100% to make up for it.

And really? Wow, guess I never tried that.

So, if I get this right, your route looks like this?

2013-04-10 08:29:48 am

Mmmm, almost. 16 is actually 3, and 4 is 16. It just so happens, if you get the tank marked #16 on your first pass, when you drop down from there and start holding right, you get just the right amount of speed to break one of the speed booster blocks.

2013-04-10 08:54:28 am

Hm, I see. Alright, I guess it does sort of make sense because I'm not sure you can get the speedboost to the left if you get it then, without going right a bit. And 4 being 4 is just an old habit I guess lol.

2013-04-10 09:09:28 am

The reason 4 isn't gotten right there and then, is that there's a way better use for a shinespark, if you happen to have one there: just shinespark through the ceiling-hopper room. And even if you don't have a shinespark, it's faster to get 4 during clean-up thanks to Hi-Jump.

2013-04-10 09:15:07 am

It's not the most scientific of tests, but I just did a partial run with ice beam skip vs my splits without it, and despite having a worse ridley's lair I was ahead at tourian. I'll have to keep practising cocoon fight though.

Quote from ZX497:

It just so happens, if you get the tank marked #16 on your first pass, when you drop down from there and start holding right, you get just the right amount of speed to break one of the speed booster blocks.

Hm, I'll have to test this. I still like the idea of getting it later but I'll see how fast this strat is.

Quote from ZX497:

there's a way better use for a shinespark, if you happen to have one there: just shinespark through the ceiling-hopper room.

This is awesome, I didn't think of that!

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2013-04-10 10:05:52 am

2013-04-10 10:05:10 am

Speedrunner

Thats really interesting route. I have to see some speedruns so we´ll see is this really any faster than current route.

You make this look cool especially shine spacejumping. Thats freaking hard to make well like you did here.

Good stuff Kirby.:)

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-10 12:35:14 pm

2013-04-10 12:33:00 pm

So about the early norfair super/missile tanks, I don't see how that can really save much time honestly. To traverse the long lava hallway, you want to shinespark across, so you'll have to run to the left hall to charge a speedboost then run back right.

Whereas getting it during cleanup, you already have a shine charged when you reach the green door, so you don't have to backtrack.

Am I missing something here?

Furthermore, if you skip ice beam for later, then what is the ideal strat for imago cocoon? I'd assume you get the pair of outer vines from the ground, and use three supers (one each for 3 of the 4 inner vines), and I guess normal missiles for the last inner vine?