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Dragonfangs: 2013-06-21 05:01:42 pm


Herp derp, saves up to a second I think? Though I'm comparing with a save that doesn't have Long, Wave OR Charge so I can't do the normal strat optimally.

It's also a bit harder than it looks, which is already pretty hard ;).
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2013-06-22 09:21:40 am
kirbymastah: 2013-06-22 09:18:28 am
So I'm trying out a 100% route, and I think i have one that i'm gonna stick to; this is probably the best single-segment route to do for 100% unless you can think of any improvements.

-Late Long Beam
-Early Brinstar Cleanup
-Acid Worm Skip + Late Kraid Cleanup
-Lower Norfair Cleanup
-Late Ice Beam

So, doing the AWS route is no problem with long beam, since your missile count should generally be fine (I usully have ~20 by kraid, which is just enough to reliably kill him with a good fight). However, you use a few extra missiles if you do late long beam (I use 3 to clear the blocks for AWS quickly), so missile count will be unreliably low, and if you don't get a single drop from sidehoppers... good luck.

So I decided to get the brinstar missile tank detour BEFORE Kraid, rather than just before toruian. Yes, it's a 1-2 second loss, but it makes AWS+late long beam much more reliably in Kraid, and I find myself reliably having ~22ish missiles at Kraid, rather than 17-18 (17, you can't miss a single missile on kraid...)

Also, three e-tanks before norfair is just enough to reliably make it through the first big heated room in norfair. The problem is, AWS saves ~15 seconds by skipping a refill in kraid, but in return, with upper norfair cleanup (and/or early ice beam i guess...), you basically HAVE to refill thanks to extra heated rooms; if I didn't do AWS, and I did upper norfair cleanup, then I can skip refills in norfair, so AWS would save only 10 seconds.

BUT by doing lower norfair cleanup + AWS, I can skip refilling both in Kraid and in Norfair. I tried this out, and while it's risky, I think it's very much viable single-segment (obviously not recommended in races), and I'll be using this route for my single-segment attempts. It's challenging and punishing, but also fun and rewarding :D

I can do AWS around 70% of the time now, so I can definitely put it in serious attempts, or even races.
what do you mean by the "brinstar missile tank detour"?
The one that's on the path to the hive room, where you need bombs. It's like 2 seconds faster to get it while you have screw attack, as opposed to getting it right before Kraid
oh, okay...Getting that early is not exactly new. :P If you're doing late long, you should be getting both that tank and the missile tank at the top of brinstar before Kraid, which does indeed have a nice synergy with the goal of skipping a refill at space jump.
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2013-06-22 11:25:54 am
kirbymastah: 2013-06-22 11:24:58 am
Yeah I know getting that missile tank earlier isn't new :P

Wait the top of brinstar? do you mean with the two rippers in the way? As in the one that's normally collected just before tourian?
Yeah, that one. After getting the varia tank, bomb jump up there, then go back out the way you came in and fall down to the entrance to the hive room area.
That seems terrible to do... Are you sure it's considerably faster than just getting that top missile tank before tourian? Has it been tested?
with late long + early varia, getting that tank late is kind of a big detour. If you get it early you can just get the brinstar super, go up a screen to long beam, and head directly up to tourian. No faffing about in upper brinstar.

dfangs talked about this a little just on the previous page. I think getting both tanks early is only marginally faster than getting both late, but getting one early and one late sounds like a bad idea.
Quote from Mobiusman:
dfangs talked about this a little just on the previous page. I think getting both tanks early is only marginally faster than getting both late, but getting one early and one late sounds like a bad idea.


Hm that's true. If i wasn't getting the pre-hive missile tank early, then i'd be better off getting both late. I'll do a test run right now and try it out.
I tried the aforementioned route after practicing getting both brinstar missile tanks early. It was a very messy run <_<

- AWS second try
- Fell down three times instead of normal twice in hive room
- Lost the shine for the 2nd-to-last e-tank
- Lost two space boosts
- Fell down the last vertical shaft during stealth, where you get mobbed by 5-6 pirates
- Worst charlie luck. ever.

And I got 54:05. Geez. that's SEVEN SECONDS AWAY FROM MY PB. which was much better executed than this piece of crap.

I can easily get sub-53. I really like this route honestly, it's hard and challenging but fun... but I definitely won't do it in races (or if I do, i'll refill at minimum)
that's cool. I remember doing a playthrough with basically the same route back when late kraid cleanup was found and concluding it was too hard for SS runs, but we've gotten so much better since then that maybe it's worth reevaluating.

also, check out this thread from 2004, LOL
I might just try that route for SS myself...it's hard to justify taking a route that's 10 seconds slower and almost requires an extra refill. Not sure if I'll do late long though; that probably depends on what I think after trying this route in a quick segmented run.
Doing the full early Brinstar cleanup really synergizes well with Late long, and makes skipping refills a lot easier by having more missiles.
Running this game becomes more and more annoying by the day apparently. <_< I have enough trouble actually getting past Kraid within a decent time frame. =( Guess I'm just bad lol.
actually, I think the AWS route makes late long even more attractive, since it makes not refilling at space jump less risky.

dragonfangs, when you said AWS saved 10 seconds, I assume that's gametime, compared to a late kraid cleanup route. I'd be very interested to know how much faster this route would be for realtime compared to the route I've been using (same brinstar route and early kraid cleanup). I feel like the answer is "a little but even less".
I've been having the same problem, Thomaz. The last 100% run I completed was a full two weeks ago, and the last time I got past Kraid was only a few days after that. >_< A route change might actually do me a lot of good.

And yeah, I'll probably end up doing late long. As you guys have pointed out, it makes a lot of sense. Having more missiles for Kraid will also be very nice.
I'll probably work on another save-state run tomorrow (yeah i'm bored), with the updated route. I think this is pretty much the best SS route that's "reliable" unless anyone else can come up with any improvements?
Quote from Mobiusman:
dragonfangs, when you said AWS saved 10 seconds, I assume that's gametime, compared to a late kraid cleanup route.

Absolutely correct.

The route differences don't overlap with Late or Early Kraid anyway, except for late being required with AWS. Late Kraid is still 3 seconds faster in game and 7 seconds slower real time iirc. I really need to compile all these results somewhere before I forget stuff...
so for realtime you save up to 15 seconds but lose 7. I guess that's still a chunk :P And it means that realtime and gametime have the same optimal route again!
Just got a 52:43 using the AWS route with full early Brinstar cleanup. Made tons of big mistakes; beating my PB shouldn't even be all that difficult. I'm not fond of the beginning through Kraid, but it is a really cool route, not to mention fast.
I realized I never shared my strategy for fighting acid worm with supers & plasma beam.

The best way I know of to defeat it is to come into the room with a charged beam shot. As you take the zipline, shoot it down just when you pass the center, then a super diagonally down-right when you're on the left side of the zipline, still on it. Land, then fire three supers straight forward, then immediately fire a few beam shots diagonally down-right to damage it as it goes back down. Fall to the side like with the missile strat with a charged plasma shot, then fire up when it comes up; it should die here.

It should always die at the very start of the second time it comes out. I have killed it before it returned to the ground the first time a total of two times too, but it's really hard and basically luck-ish. I'll put up a video today or tomorrow.
sounds pretty close to what ZX posted back in january when we thought it was unfeasible :P



(starts at 0:50)
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2013-06-24 12:36:39 pm
My strategy is very close to that, except my first super is while I'm still on the zipline, and I fire three more supers straight just before it goes back down; while it's going back down, i shoot plasma beam diagonally down to damage it a bit more. I haven't tried squeezing in a fifth super while it's going down.

Also the power bomb doesn't really speed things up. You can just screw attack the blocks below; though according to dfangs, destroying the top-right bomb block is what triggers the screen to scroll down, so DON'T hug the left wall or else you'll navigate the bottom here blind, like the TAS does :P
Edit history:
Dragonfangs: 2013-06-24 06:13:14 pm
Er, shoot the first charge shot diagonally, it does more damage and there's still time to shoot a super before you land. Also diagonal super at the end is possible but kind of tricky.