New 100% Route

2013-06-10 11:34:47 pm

one Charge Beam then spam normal beam shots until it goes down, do normal strat except with normal beam instead of missiles, should always be a one-round.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 09:55:45 am

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 09:55:31 am

2013-06-11 09:55:18 am

Ok. I'm trying out a different route that should save a bit of time, assuming I can AWS first try. Basically...

Early Brinstar Cleanup. I want that e-tank since I'm skipping two e-tanks in kraid.
AWS in Kraid, with late kraid cleanup
Upper Norfair Cleanup. Entire point of doing lower norfair cleanup is to skip all refills, and while it's certainly feasible, it's too risky for my taste in a single-segment run.

I'm also trying out jaggerg's kraid cleanup route since I'm doing AWS anyways. The cleanup route meaning, after getting the zipline missile tank, I don't backtrack to the main vertical shaft; i go through the sidehopper hall instead, then shinespark up the bottom-right vertical shaft to reach norfair.

Thoughts?

No I am not doing late long beam. I'd rather do AWS over hive room

ZX497

2013-06-11 10:19:36 am

I think if you beat my time using that route it's essentially cheating. j/k ;)

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're still better off doing the regular route for late Kraid clean-up, at the very least, you should test the early lava missile tank before you actually even attempt it, cause it still seems to me it's gonna lose time. Other than that, sounds sweet... such a pro route!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 11:30:16 am

2013-06-11 11:29:46 am

Early lava missile tank? You mean the one below the rio room? With AWS, it seems to make sense to get that after beating kraid, while exiting kraid, since you need to shinespark across the rio room anyways.

Then because you get that missile tank early, you don't have to bother backtracking in www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Deib8WLp4 ; instead you can just go straight up to the norfair room. So the video route SHOULD be faster if you do AWS, assuming you get the below-rio missile tank earlier.

ZX497

2013-06-11 11:52:33 am

Yeah, that's the tank I meant. Sure, if you are going to do the Jagger-route during Kraid clean-up, you should pick up the Rio-room Missile Tank early cause it clearly saves time then. But what my point is, I'm pretty sure it's slower than just doing the default route, even if you do get the rio tank early.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 12:21:33 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 12:21:00 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 12:17:58 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-06-11 12:14:57 pm

2013-06-11 12:02:18 pm

It seems like it would be faster judging from taking out that missile tank in my video, but I'll test it later today

EDIT:

Calculating from watching my youtube video,

2:19 - 1:58 = 23 RTA seconds from not having to go back through the missile tank room because of AWS. Two door transitions, so that's probably roughly 19 in-game seconds saved in cleanup. However, it takes roughly 7 extra in-game seconds to grab that missile tank earlier (starting from shinesparking left after shine charging), so doing AWS would make that video 12 seconds faster than original. My original video is 7 seconds slower than the "old" kraid cleanup route, so ultimately, following the jagger kraid cleanup route should save 5 seconds if you're doing AWS.

Again, these calculations are rough and based off of my youtube video, and i WILL test it when I get home from work, but don't be surprised if it ends up being faster.

EDIT2: Geez, after I test this out, i really wanna make another save-state run, this time with early brinstar cleanup, AWS, and assuming it's faster, new late kraid cleanup

It seems like it would be faster judging from taking out that missile tank in my video, but I'll test it later today

EDIT:

Calculating from watching my youtube video,

2:19 - 1:58 = 23 RTA seconds from not having to go back through the missile tank room because of AWS. Two door transitions, so that's probably roughly 19 in-game seconds saved in cleanup. However, it takes roughly 7 extra in-game seconds to grab that missile tank earlier (starting from shinesparking left after shine charging), so doing AWS would make that video 12 seconds faster than original. My original video is 7 seconds slower than the "old" kraid cleanup route, so ultimately, following the jagger kraid cleanup route should save 5 seconds if you're doing AWS.

Again, these calculations are rough and based off of my youtube video, and i WILL test it when I get home from work, but don't be surprised if it ends up being faster.

EDIT2: Geez, after I test this out, i really wanna make another save-state run, this time with early brinstar cleanup, AWS, and assuming it's faster, new late kraid cleanup

Mobiusman

2013-06-11 12:29:53 pm

if you do a savestate run, do it with late long >:o

ZX497

2013-06-11 12:40:31 pm

Ok, I did some quick testing myself, and it seems getting the missile tank early for the AWS route saves 7 seconds compared to getting it late, if you're doing the Jagger-route for Kraid clean-up. So, if your original timing for the Kraid clean-up routes was correct, Kirby, they should basically break even.

But yeah, do test it for reals.

kirbymastah

2013-06-11 06:58:03 pm

Old Kraid Clean Up with AWS - 62.49
Jagger Kraid Clean Up with AWS - 65.28

Jagger route is roughly 2.5 seconds slower in-game time. However, that's including a somewhat tricky space boost out of the e-tank zipline room which helps the old route. If you don't get that space boost, it's probably even.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-06-11 11:17:53 pm

2013-06-11 11:16:21 pm

For the AWS route (regardless of clean-up route), you can save like 10 frames (?) if you do the fairly long vertical shinespark after Kraid a little differently. Instead of shinesparking straight up the right side of the room, charge the spark and wall-jump up those little ladders on the left. If you spark on a certain spot on top of there, it'll take you basically right in front of the "rio room missile tank" door, which is where you'll be going next.

Cheers for proper timing, Kirby. So, this means you probably still won't be getting the rio tank early, despite entering the room.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-12 12:43:05 am

2013-06-12 12:26:49 am

yep. get the rio missile tank. Of course, the jagger route is only 2.5 seconds slower, and that's if you do the small space boost in the standard cleanup route when coming out of the e-tank zipline room. I should put a video of that up, shouldn't i?

Also IIRC, dragonfangs said he tested it and got roughly the same results too (jagger route is 2 seconds slower).

ZX497

2013-06-12 06:12:23 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

yep. get the rio missile tank.

No, I mean, DON'T get it. It may seem like a stupid move to enter that room just to charge a spark, and not get the tank, but that is the fastest way, _unless_ you'll do the Jagger route for the clean-up. The default clean-up route will put you so close to that missile tank when you fall into the rio lava-pit, that it's still faster to get it then, even if you're doing AWS.

kirbymastah

2013-06-12 08:12:28 am

dangit, i meant DON'T get it. *FailFish*

kirbymastah

2013-06-12 09:41:18 am

Few strategies I came up with for doing the acid worm area during cleanup, including fighting acid worm itself. I'll post videos up later tonight.

Dragonfangs

2013-06-15 09:58:40 am

So I finally timed AWS and it turns out to be ~10 seconds faster. If you get the Acid Worm instant kill (kill it before it retracts into the ground the first time) that's an extra 2-3 seconds faster, but it's really hard so I didn't include it in the time. It might be consistent enough for segmented.

So basically, if you fail the HBJ once it's not worth it anymore.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-15 10:07:07 am

2013-06-15 10:06:18 am

Darn, that's not as much as I'd like it to be :(

...I should still go for it in PB attempts. Cuz it's fun.

Also how much time does late long beam save anyways? I usually lose like 15-20 seconds in the hive room <_< so it's probably not worth it for me...

Dragonfangs

2013-06-15 05:18:08 pm

Late Long saves ~13 seconds disregarding any time you lose by not having it. So it's closer to 5 seconds realistically.

Mobiusman

2013-06-15 05:26:13 pm

Quote from Dragonfangs:

Late Long saves ~13 seconds disregarding any time you lose by not having it. So it's closer to 5 seconds realistically.

is that with no other route changes? like, do you (disregarding ripper luck) save more time with late long + getting those two missile tanks early?

Dragonfangs

2013-06-15 05:50:11 pm

It's kind of complicated, grabbing those tanks early mainly saves real time.

I'm pretty sure with early long grabbing them late is just wasting time and with late long it's equal for in game time but skips two doors.

Mobiusman

2013-06-15 06:03:51 pm

Quote from Dragonfangs:

I'm pretty sure with early long grabbing them late is just wasting time

wait, what? I thought getting those tanks early synergised better with late long.

Dragonfangs

Edit history:

Dragonfangs: 2013-06-15 06:19:50 pm

2013-06-15 06:19:04 pm

Haha, I had to reread my own post like 3 times before I noticed the problem. I meant the opposite, you want to grab them late if you're doing early long.

Too much early and late whatever, mixing everything up.

kirbymastah

2013-06-20 10:24:37 pm

dfangs, by the way, you said AWS saves 10 seconds in 100%? Does that take into account being able to skip a refill in Kraid?

ZX497

2013-06-21 03:01:10 am

Technically, the Kraid refill is skippable even without AWS, it just requires the god luck for drops. But yeah, Dragonfangs can't have counted that one in as a gain, so I think the actual gain you can expect with a first try AWS is closer to 15 seconds.

Dragonfangs

2013-06-21 06:14:13 am

What ZX said pretty much.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-06-21 08:53:12 am

2013-06-21 08:52:52 am

dangit now i kinad wanna do AWS again... with late long beam, early brinstar cleanup, late kraid cleanup.... skip ALL the refills!