New 100% Route

2013-04-26 12:00:13 pm

Wait it's the same window for breaking the Kraid block with or without a Charge Shot? That's not how it feels to me O_o

And yeah, the power grip one is not a problem, I just added it cause, why not. It's a definitive gain for the Charge Beam. Also, that little critter circling the block before the Hot Room missile tank, that one IS a problem. You can get it quite consistently with or without charge, but Charge sure makes it just a tiny bit easier, and considering we're talking about frames when it comes to that guy, even the tiniest bit of leeway makes a difference.

Thanks for timing, this, man. If the Kraid block is indeed equally easy to hit without Charge, I'd definitely just grab it before Norfair instead of at the end of the fight.

Dragonfangs

Edit history:

Dragonfangs: 2013-04-26 12:03:33 pm

2013-04-26 12:02:20 pm

If you actually want the Kraid block to be easier, you can start spinning before shooting ;). It adds one frame of leeway, but slows you down a few frames.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-26 12:24:00 pm

ZX497: 2013-04-26 12:04:49 pm

2013-04-26 12:04:38 pm

But that is so annoying to do! There's a crumble block which stops your spin just a moment before the shot, and if you hold down-left on the d-pad, you can't even start a spin :P

I think I'll just suck it up and go with the 3-frame window. I kinda have a good visual cue for it too.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, the reason I left the hot room missile tank in there, is because I have personal issues with that spark. I always use UP to start a mid-air shinespark, and that's the only spot in the entire run where SHOOT is required. So, I just wanted to abolish that :P

Mobiusman

2013-04-26 12:43:36 pm

after trying it out I've already gone off getting earliest charge beam :P

Dragondarch

2013-04-26 02:40:08 pm

Well, that's a rare treat. Charge Beam may actually be useful in 100%...

kirbymastah

2013-04-26 05:19:15 pm

You can use charge beam to conserve missiles on enemies as well, so you can save frames on the refills #Kappa

Thomaz

2013-04-26 06:24:11 pm

I've never had trouble hitting the block after the larva. You just have to make sure you don't go left too much so that you don't start the boost earlier (it doesn't save time anyhow due to having to further back).
For that part btw, I always do the break block/hold spark trick (with pause buffering) so that regardless of getting the spark, I'll be at the closest part where I broke the block so that I can roll and grab that expansion with ease. And if you do get the save, you can try to spark to the left. It's a pretty tough spark to do though). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RPm6aALV2yM#t=120s <-- Although I failed there lol.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-05-02 02:45:40 pm

ZX497: 2013-04-29 10:44:40 am

2013-04-29 10:43:53 am

So, I made a compilation of a bunch of small things that I find to be fairly useful. A lot of this stuff was not discovered by me, I've just picked up a bunch of stuff watching Dragondarch, Kirby, Jagger, Spidey, Dragonfangs, everyone who's recorded a run pretty much, and just by talking to you guys and learning how you do thigs. Lots of this stuff is probably things you guys are already doing, but hopefully there's something extra for everybody.

I'm gonna make another video like this for the second half of the game, but that'll be for later.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2013-04-29 02:00:51 pm

2013-04-29 01:59:39 pm

I have a few pointers on how you can improve some of them if you don't mind. =P I liked the spark after falling down the pillar though, I didn't even know there was a spark block there. Today, I had an attempt that failed there because I was a moron and froze the green dude in the middle and jumped (and thus missed) and fell down. :(

And wow, I never realised I could just jump up and grab the elevator at 4:41. Silliness.

At 0:30, when you enter the room, you can fire a diagonal missile. It'll hit the Geemer and thus you don't need to stop.
At 0:38, a mid-air morph double bomb jump gets you up there in the fastest way possible afaik. Slightly harder though.
At 0:42, you only need to shoot the left block. :P
At 1:04, the method is fine, but I prefer to get it on my way to Kraid by jumping on the right 'platform', shooting diagonally once to break the block, then do a diagonal double bomb jump. It's slightly tricky though because if you miss, you'll get hit by the Shriekbat.
At 1:50, I prefer to drop down and spark so you'll be lower. =P
At 2:01, I prefer to do a small spinjump so that I break the block with the Screw Attack.
At 2:14, isn't it faster to spark to the right block? You can powergrip morph right away.
At 2:50, you can lay a bomb right before the blocks dissapear. After the pick-up message, you'll be bomb jumped up so if you hold left, you can land on the ledge without rejumping with the Hi-Jump.
At 4:32, I like to jump during my speedboost so that I can fire a missile diagonally down to destroy the block.

Cool vid. =)

I have a few pointers on how you can improve some of them if you don't mind. =P I liked the spark after falling down the pillar though, I didn't even know there was a spark block there. Today, I had an attempt that failed there because I was a moron and froze the green dude in the middle and jumped (and thus missed) and fell down. :(

And wow, I never realised I could just jump up and grab the elevator at 4:41. Silliness.

At 0:30, when you enter the room, you can fire a diagonal missile. It'll hit the Geemer and thus you don't need to stop.
At 0:38, a mid-air morph double bomb jump gets you up there in the fastest way possible afaik. Slightly harder though.
At 0:42, you only need to shoot the left block. :P
At 1:04, the method is fine, but I prefer to get it on my way to Kraid by jumping on the right 'platform', shooting diagonally once to break the block, then do a diagonal double bomb jump. It's slightly tricky though because if you miss, you'll get hit by the Shriekbat.
At 1:50, I prefer to drop down and spark so you'll be lower. =P
At 2:01, I prefer to do a small spinjump so that I break the block with the Screw Attack.
At 2:14, isn't it faster to spark to the right block? You can powergrip morph right away.
At 2:50, you can lay a bomb right before the blocks dissapear. After the pick-up message, you'll be bomb jumped up so if you hold left, you can land on the ledge without rejumping with the Hi-Jump.
At 4:32, I like to jump during my speedboost so that I can fire a missile diagonally down to destroy the block.

Cool vid. =)

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-29 02:31:12 pm

2013-04-29 02:29:31 pm

Here's my thoughts on those:

0:30 - The reason I jump and shoot, instead of just doing the diagonal shot, is because of what's shown in the video: if the Geemer is moving left, a diagonal shot won't hit him. Naturally, this isn't a problem per se, since the geemer won't be in your way... however, killing him does net you another chance to get a missile drop.

0:38 - Yeah, true, you should mid-air morph. I just stopped doing that after falling down a couple of times thanks to a botched morph, so, yeah :P

0:42 - I guess? It dunno why you wouldn't just mash fire and break both of them... I mean, it's possible to clip the right-side one and fail the bomb jump.

1:04 - That sounds like an interesting idea, might be faster too.

1:50 - I used to do that, then I switched to this, and now that you mentioned that again I'm considering switching back. No idea what is faster :P

2:01 - Yeah, that works too. I've just accidentally ledge grabbed there on a couple of occasions, so, I started doing this instead.

2:14 - Probably. It's also possible to hit the right-side ledge and screw up the spark entirely... basically, I spark left so I can just no-brain it: jump left, spark up. No need to check for position or anything, and I can do it as fast as I want.

2:50 - I used to do that. Pretty sure that's slower. The bomb actually gives you this sort of long hang time, which doesn't happen if you land and then ball jump immediately (just by holding a button). It doesn't matter much either way, though.

4:32 - Do you stop the speed boost first, or do you just do a spin-jump or what? I've tested quite a few methods for this part, and they all had the problem of occasionally failing to hit that missile block... and that hasn't happened ever since I started doing this.

Thanks for the input, Thomaz!

Here's my thoughts on those:

0:30 - The reason I jump and shoot, instead of just doing the diagonal shot, is because of what's shown in the video: if the Geemer is moving left, a diagonal shot won't hit him. Naturally, this isn't a problem per se, since the geemer won't be in your way... however, killing him does net you another chance to get a missile drop.

0:38 - Yeah, true, you should mid-air morph. I just stopped doing that after falling down a couple of times thanks to a botched morph, so, yeah :P

0:42 - I guess? It dunno why you wouldn't just mash fire and break both of them... I mean, it's possible to clip the right-side one and fail the bomb jump.

1:04 - That sounds like an interesting idea, might be faster too.

1:50 - I used to do that, then I switched to this, and now that you mentioned that again I'm considering switching back. No idea what is faster :P

2:01 - Yeah, that works too. I've just accidentally ledge grabbed there on a couple of occasions, so, I started doing this instead.

2:14 - Probably. It's also possible to hit the right-side ledge and screw up the spark entirely... basically, I spark left so I can just no-brain it: jump left, spark up. No need to check for position or anything, and I can do it as fast as I want.

2:50 - I used to do that. Pretty sure that's slower. The bomb actually gives you this sort of long hang time, which doesn't happen if you land and then ball jump immediately (just by holding a button). It doesn't matter much either way, though.

4:32 - Do you stop the speed boost first, or do you just do a spin-jump or what? I've tested quite a few methods for this part, and they all had the problem of occasionally failing to hit that missile block... and that hasn't happened ever since I started doing this.

Thanks for the input, Thomaz!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-29 03:06:27 pm

2013-04-29 03:06:10 pm

2:16 - The first jump you have to do after the shinespark. You can just spring ball from the ledge then power grip; definitely faster, but also trickier since you have to spring ball from the ledge. No reason not to do so though since you can easily react to a missed spring ball and fall back on jumping in human form.

2:50 - I'm pretty sure it's faster to grab that super missile tank from below. All you have to do is, after uncovering the super missile tank and while the spiral of blocks is being cleared, position yourself below it, press A to spring ball into it, then during the acquisition animation, hold left. You'll spring ball onto the left ledge without really going any higher. the block below the super missile tank is also cleared before the block on top, so I'm sure getting it from below is faster.

Good video regardless :)

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-29 03:23:25 pm

2013-04-29 03:23:08 pm

By the way, if one were to be able to do AWS consistently with HBJs, how much time does AWS save? I think I've been getting better at HBJs, and I may actually consider AWS because it's cool and faster <_<

Dragondarch

2013-04-29 03:24:17 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

2:50 - I'm pretty sure it's faster to grab that super missile tank from below. All you have to do is, after uncovering the super missile tank and while the spiral of blocks is being cleared, position yourself below it, press A to spring ball into it, then during the acquisition animation, hold left. You'll spring ball onto the left ledge without really going any higher. the block below the super missile tank is also cleared before the block on top, so I'm sure getting it from below is faster.

Real men lay bombs with near frame perfect precision Wink

2:12 - I've found if you do a full height jump on the right side before sparking, the speed block will reappear before you start falling. No Power Grip necessary.
However, now that I'm looking at it, why the hell aren't we ball sparking up there? On the right side it would guarantee that the speed block would reappear, and would save a morph up top.

kirbymastah

2013-04-29 03:28:00 pm

IIRC a ballspark has like almost an entire second of startup compared to a standard shinespark. It's the entire reason why after the two ridley puzzle rooms on the east side, running then shinesparking left through the door is actually faster than ballsparking left. I don't really think it's worth it for this room, as nice as the guaranteed lack of power grip is ;/

ZX497

2013-04-29 03:55:11 pm

MMmm, surprisingly enough, the ballspark doesn't seem like it's too bad of a bet. I think it's still slower than sparking to the right, so you can land straight on the ledge without Power Gripping, but it doesn't seem bad at all.

Btw, you can also be riskier in that room, by shooting the missile block in the second drop without grabbing the ledge on the left-side. It's just that, if you miss that shot you'll fall straight through the crumble blocks. It's not really a hard trick, and it would save maybe a second, but it's just kind of risky.

Thomaz

2013-04-29 04:32:10 pm

Hm, alright. I honestly never tried to jump up for the Super lol, guess I could try. =P

For 1:50, the main point is that bonking takes more time than going into speedboost again and canceling it. =P

ZX497

2013-04-29 04:43:10 pm

Yeah, that's the way I did it too, sparked into that slope and recharged to avoid the bonk. The TAS uses that method as well, but the TAS can also recharge the spark frame-perfectly, so I dunno which method is actually better for RTA.

Dragonfangs

2013-04-30 10:30:01 am

At the crateria super, just jump to the right immediately after grabbing the super and spark left. That's what I do now, and I need to check if that's actually not faster for TAS.

ZX497

2013-04-30 10:46:43 am

Yeah, Dragonfangs' suggestion is definitely faster for RTA.

Mobiusman

2013-05-01 03:59:46 am

another timing question (not particularly relevant to any current routes, but interesting nonetheless) -
If you have ~25 missiles at space jump, what's faster - to refill, or to run through the hopper corridor without using any ammo? Is the answer different for gametime vs realtime?

Also, my favourite thing about early charge is that iceless wave+charge looks awesome

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2013-05-01 04:45:17 am

2013-05-01 04:42:03 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

0:30 - Shoot another diagonal shot from above once you jump on the block.

0:38 - Uhh...a mid-air morph IBJ is consistent enough to consider in general? Really?

1:04 - I skip it heading into Kraid so I have a nearly free health refill for Norfair.

1:27 - Don't forget to jump out of the crouch to aim up instantly. Commonly overlooked, and sticks out every time I see someone do that room, lol

1:50 - I jumped to the top to spark so that I spark sooner and fall sooner. Is there a reason you jump to the RIGHT to spark left? edit: oh, the blocks are like right above. Forgot they're so close.

2:01 - Seems like grabbing the ledge is just as likely if you run off the platform, no? Once you jump, you can release Right at any time.

2:37 - You can jump up the right side, and either SA along the top of the missile if you're early, or land on the right edge if you're late, then mash A to SA the guys on the left after the message disappears.

2:50 - I gotta remember the bomb strat for any%, come to think of it.

As for recharging at Space Jump, recharging costs a ton of game time, too (both the recharge AND the message). Just tank the damage, preferably by the rios above so you can run through sidehoppers. You lose less than 200 health even if you mess it up.

0:30 - Shoot another diagonal shot from above once you jump on the block.

0:38 - Uhh...a mid-air morph IBJ is consistent enough to consider in general? Really?

1:04 - I skip it heading into Kraid so I have a nearly free health refill for Norfair.

1:27 - Don't forget to jump out of the crouch to aim up instantly. Commonly overlooked, and sticks out every time I see someone do that room, lol

1:50 - I jumped to the top to spark so that I spark sooner and fall sooner. Is there a reason you jump to the RIGHT to spark left? edit: oh, the blocks are like right above. Forgot they're so close.

2:01 - Seems like grabbing the ledge is just as likely if you run off the platform, no? Once you jump, you can release Right at any time.

2:37 - You can jump up the right side, and either SA along the top of the missile if you're early, or land on the right edge if you're late, then mash A to SA the guys on the left after the message disappears.

2:50 - I gotta remember the bomb strat for any%, come to think of it.

As for recharging at Space Jump, recharging costs a ton of game time, too (both the recharge AND the message). Just tank the damage, preferably by the rios above so you can run through sidehoppers. You lose less than 200 health even if you mess it up.

ZX497

2013-05-01 07:20:00 pm

Ok, this is pretty bizarre finding I just came across. Pseudo Screw Attack, for whatever reason, uncovers the "item orbs" the Chozo Statues are holding. So, what significance does this have? Essentially none. However, if you do uncover them by Pseudo Screw Attacking, you can actually get quite a bit of height for your jump, before Samus picks up the item, so this might be mildly useful when grabbing the items before the Ridley fight:

Not sure if this actually adds any speed, but hey, it's something. And yeah, I didn't have an actual Screw Attack in this video, so you guys would get a better picture of this, but it works just the same with Screw Attack: Regular Screw Attack does not uncover the items at all, but if you do the Pseudo on top of it, it works.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-05-02 02:14:59 pm

ZX497: 2013-05-02 01:07:58 pm

2013-05-02 01:07:38 pm

Ok, so, I told you guys I'd do this at a later date, and that date is now. More stuff. I didn't include Tourian in this video at all, cause even though you can have a general strategy for it, more often than not it'll require you to wing it to some degree anyway. Again, a lot of this aren't my own discoveries, shout outs to you all. Could've added more things too, like the Crateria Space Boost, but whatever.

Oh yeah, I should clarify, some of these are just for back-up strats, namely going under the last pillar after triggering an alert in the fourth clip, and breaking the Kraid barriers with a shinespark.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-05-02 02:56:41 pm

2013-05-02 02:56:23 pm

How about the backup strat for missing the shine directly after finishing charlie? :P

Yeah I didn't know that was a crumble block below the missile tank.....

ZX497

2013-05-02 02:59:02 pm

Well, there's no actual back-up strat there... You just go back and do it again :P

I guess I could've shown that there was a crumble block under the missile tank, though.