A very pressing matter regarding MP:FF

2015-06-20 09:17:45 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Yeah, I really hate the "oh, she just wasn't what you expected" argument for Samus in Other M. She was a shitty character, full stop. It has nothing to do with preconceived notions. She was horrible. She was horrible as Samus and she'd be horrible if she was named Sally Starmaster. Just a shit, shit character.

Serris

2015-06-20 09:18:01 pm

That characterization was already there before Other M, though. Other M didn't do much in that department, the problem was more the story around it and the way it was handled. The presentation doesn't fit Metroid since we all want to run around in isolation on some alien planet, so they separated the story from the game with Zero Mission, which I preferred, but at the same time that led to none of it getting through to people who only play the games, so they got double-hit in the face with an unfamiliar vision of the character in a lame story told in a cutscene- and dialogue-heavy way you don't want to see in a Metroid game.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2015-06-20 09:55:20 pm

2015-06-20 09:55:01 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Toozin:

Yeah, I really hate the "oh, she just wasn't what you expected" argument for Samus in Other M. She was a shitty character, full stop. It has nothing to do with preconceived notions. She was horrible. She was horrible as Samus and she'd be horrible if she was named Sally Starmaster. Just a shit, shit character.

yep

and i'd argue it's not bad just because of the story and charaters ... other m's gameplay left much to be desired. the core gameplay itself was pretty cool, but they tossed in all this extra shit, like the first-person stuff and all the weird waggle, which kinda ruined it

Turtle

2015-06-20 10:41:18 pm

I like turtles.

We also have to question how much of said unfamiliar characterization was actually just that vs. how much was because of the poor writing? The problem isn't that players were accustomed to projecting themselves onto Samus, it's that they had already been able to infer a great deal from her actions and expressions alone, and Other M's portrayal flew in the face of what we knew about the character (generally a bad idea in storytelling).

Toozin

2015-06-20 10:46:27 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

That's also true. If you pay attention to the differences between the ending of Super Metroid and the opening of Other M, you'll see they had to change a hell of a lot in order to make it fit the Other M version of Samus "THE BABY" Aran.

Toozin

2015-06-20 10:47:30 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

But again, it wouldn't matter that much if it was a positive change.

Turtle

Edit history:

Turtle: 2015-06-20 10:50:02 pm

2015-06-20 10:49:33 pm

I like turtles.

That would be hard to do, in my opinion, the ending to SM offered some of the best understated characterization I've ever seen.

Serris

2015-06-20 11:07:18 pm

Well yeah, the latest Samus version started with Zero Mission (or Fusion at the earliest). There's a clash of three visions: Makoto Kano's original, little of which is comprehensively published; the japanese-side reboot (Fusion/ZM/Other M), which is probably informed by Kano's but can't really be compared due to lack of information; and the Prime games, which can be viewed as either having very western sensibilities or opting for the blank protagonist approach because the Primes were a side story that wasn't supposed to deal with stuff meant for the main games, or just forgoing foreground story altogether to benefit the gameplay.

Opium

2015-06-20 11:11:01 pm

The portrayal of Samus is the least of my gripes when it comes to Other M. I hated the idea of pointing the wiimote at the TV to fire missiles, the pixel hunts, the idea of having to get permission to use your upgrades, the dash/dodge combat move, the crappy uninspired level design, the auto-aim beam that hardly ever works, and probably half a dozen other things I can't think of right now.

Opium

2015-06-20 11:12:58 pm

I think the moment I finally admitted to myself that it sucked was the part right after getting gravity where you're running down a hall while it flies apart behind you. All you do is run. That's it. It could have been an epic part of the game, except all you do is hold down a button.

Toozin

Edit history:

Toozin: 2015-06-20 11:39:05 pm

2015-06-20 11:38:10 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I don't see that clash personally, Serris. I think AM, Prime, and original extra crispy Samus are all very easy to reconcile as the same person. Other M Samus doesn't fit with anything, not even ZM.

rekameohs

2015-06-20 11:42:06 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

I don't like when people use the "only the story in Other M is bad, give the rest of the game a chaaaance" argument, because the gameplay is shit, too.

Poision Envy

2015-06-21 12:34:18 am

Club 27 Goals

Quote from tomatobob:

Quote from ryu:

but what's it going to do to the Metroid brand name?

lol nothing.

If people still give shit about Metroid after Other M then the brand is fucking invincible.

Dude, people still defend fucking Sonic. I think Metroid will always have their cult following.

Of course though, Sonic has the OC's and Deviantart autists behind it. I mean, Samus does have a massive pornography following, so I'm sure that'll help the series somewhat.

kirbymastah

2015-06-21 01:19:04 am

to be fair, sonic does have some good titles like generations, colors, and a lot of people enjoy the rush series (I'm OK with them). But yeah uhhhh boom

Poision Envy

2015-06-21 04:33:48 am

Club 27 Goals

yeah honestly I just feel like we're going to see the Sonic effect start happening to Metroid, and that's scary and sucks. Mostly because Metroid did an AMAZING job at adapting to the new market with Prime. It shifted focus from being an (exploration based) platformer (similar to sonic), into this fantastic exploration based action FPS game, since other games at the time like Halo and Gears of War were making that the "big thing" of that generation. They got a fantastic jump on it keeping Metroid relevant, and ALL they had to do was continue that Prime series with what made them popular instead of constant shitty spinoffs.

They managed to keep the ball in their court AND in their hands for nearly two decades, but at this point they're just dropping that shit and trying to play basketball with a fucking pingpong ball.

Da Dood

2015-06-21 11:00:00 am

Dood Trigger™

I always make it very clear that every single complaint I've ever read about Other M makes perfect sense, and I wouldn't want another game like it ever again. That said... I always have a pretty good time playing it. I think it has good pacing, I like the fast action and the post-game is sweet. Still probably my least favorite Metroid though.

Sonic... I love the Genesis games but I really can't get into the recent ones. That reminds me, I downloaded Sonic Adventure the other day and I've been meaning to play it.

arkarian

2015-06-21 11:46:30 am

red chamber dream

sonic adventure 2 is a brilliant game, one of the best ever made. fuck the haters.

i like adventure 1 as well but it's quite a rough game ...

Da Dood

2015-06-21 12:36:04 pm

Dood Trigger™

I actually have to give SA2 another try because when I played it (like 12 years ago) I didn't like the Tails or the Knuckles missions. I feel that I'd be more open to them now.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2015-06-21 12:56:53 pm

arkarian: 2015-06-21 12:55:59 pm

2015-06-21 12:54:40 pm

red chamber dream

they're honestly just as fun as the sonic/shadow parts. i especially love the knuckles/rouge missions in particular. with the sa games you really have to give in to the cheesiness and just get into the game. the music for example is corny but wonderful.

i think that game gets most of its flak from genesis nerds who mistakenly think sonic = fast and if something isn't fast, it's not fun

arkarian

2015-06-21 12:55:03 pm

red chamber dream

weirdly enough though, the tails/eggman stages are often faster than the sonic stages ;)

Serris

2015-06-21 01:09:20 pm

Quote from Poision Envy:

yeah honestly I just feel like we're going to see the Sonic effect start happening to Metroid, and that's scary and sucks. Mostly because Metroid did an AMAZING job at adapting to the new market with Prime. It shifted focus from being an (exploration based) platformer (similar to sonic), into this fantastic exploration based action FPS game, since other games at the time like Halo and Gears of War were making that the "big thing" of that generation. They got a fantastic jump on it keeping Metroid relevant, and ALL they had to do was continue that Prime series with what made them popular instead of constant shitty spinoffs.

They managed to keep the ball in their court AND in their hands for nearly two decades, but at this point they're just dropping that shit and trying to play basketball with a fucking pingpong ball.

If FF is successful, someone might be saying similar things about it ten years from now. To classic Metroid fans, Prime was in the same position FF is in now. No one could be sure how close it would adhere to the formula while making this transition. The thing with Metroid is that it was a rather specific kind of formula which was never all that popular, so changing it to "fit the times" is meaningless as it will lose what makes it Metroid and what attracts Metroid fans to it to begin with, and of course Prime lost a lot of mobility and platforming elements in the process of focusing on the shooting part. On a list of all things I like about Prime, gameplay would be at the bottom. Iit's not a game I boot up when I'm in the mood for my idea of Metroid. Prime is so good that I like it despite its gameplay. And I'm not suggesting Prime was as much a departure as FF, but perspective is important. Loads of people love Prime, and love it more than the 2Ds; should Nintendo take away from that that people didn't care about the platforming in the 2Ds and were glad to see the focus shift to shooting? Or do people just love explorative gameplay in all its forms?

[quote="Poision Envy"]yeah honestly I just feel like we're going to see the Sonic effect start happening to Metroid, and that's scary and sucks. Mostly because Metroid did an AMAZING job at adapting to the new market with Prime. It shifted focus from being an (exploration based) platformer (similar to sonic), into this fantastic exploration based action FPS game, since other games at the time like Halo and Gears of War were making that the "big thing" of that generation. They got a fantastic jump on it keeping Metroid relevant, and ALL they had to do was continue that Prime series with what made them popular instead of constant shitty spinoffs.

They managed to keep the ball in their court AND in their hands for nearly two decades, but at this point they're just dropping that shit and trying to play basketball with a fucking pingpong ball.[/quote]

If FF is successful, someone might be saying similar things about it ten years from now. To classic Metroid fans, Prime was in the same position FF is in now. No one could be sure how close it would adhere to the formula while making this transition. The thing with Metroid is that it was a rather specific kind of formula which was never all that popular, so changing it to "fit the times" is meaningless as it will lose what makes it Metroid and what attracts Metroid fans to it to begin with, and of course Prime lost a lot of mobility and platforming elements in the process of focusing on the shooting part. On a list of all things I like about Prime, gameplay would be at the bottom. Iit's not a game I boot up when I'm in the mood for my idea of Metroid. Prime is so good that I like it despite its gameplay. And I'm not suggesting Prime was as much a departure as FF, but perspective is important. Loads of people love Prime, and love it more than the 2Ds; should Nintendo take away from that that people didn't care about the platforming in the 2Ds and were glad to see the focus shift to shooting? Or do people just love explorative gameplay in all its forms?

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2015-06-21 01:38:46 pm

arkarian: 2015-06-21 01:38:33 pm

2015-06-21 01:38:11 pm

red chamber dream

thing is nowadays the metroid formula is super popular. look at all those indie games that do well. i don't get why nintendo didn't capitalize on that with a relatively cheap to produce downloadable 2d metroid for wii u and 3ds this gen. i can't imagine that wouldn't have sold well.

Serris

2015-06-21 01:51:33 pm

My point was more that it's very debatable what the formula is, and the devil's in the details. The only indie game I'm aware of I would call metroidy is Axiom Verge. Guacamelee was the "Metroidvania Brawler", but the Metroidvania elements were very basic and the fact it's a brawler also might turn people off who only like metroidy gameplay in the context of Metroid with all its other elements. If you're referring to any other games, I'm sadly ignorant.

arkarian

2015-06-21 02:07:37 pm

red chamber dream

steamworld dig
shadow complex
shantae
cave story
dust
rogue legacy (sort of)

not all indies but smaller games that did well

arkarian

2015-06-21 02:08:26 pm

red chamber dream

you're right about guacamelee though, the brawler aspect turned me off