A very pressing matter regarding MP:FF

2015-06-19 08:43:44 pm

red chamber dream

yeah heh. sometimes i've considered putting them back because it would be funny, but oops tf doesn't have filtering

i remember that being a very conscious choice because nate and i thought it was a dumb feature

Toozin

2015-06-19 08:45:40 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

But what if you wanted to make, like, a my little pony forum? You need to protect all the 6 year old girls from the dirty mouths of the 45 year old men.

2015-06-19 08:47:33 pm

red chamber dream

let's be real, it's all 45 year old men :D

Toozin

2015-06-19 08:48:31 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Fair enough.

2015-06-19 09:33:43 pm

doesn't it kinda defeat the purpose of even having separate threads, as opposed to a chatroom, if staying on-topic isn't enforced to at least some degree? There's some value in an on-topic rule IMO. Chatrooms are nice for casual free-flowing conversations. The advantage of forums, though, is that people generally put more effort into any one particular post, and I think that tends to lead to more thoughtful and better-organized posts, and therefore to more involved (and more concise) discussions. So if I was interested in, say, seeing what Metroid fans think about Federation Force, most forums I could find a thread and read discussion on the subject I'm interested in and not see much irrelevant content.

The other difference is the fact that forum threads are permanently archived in public, which means a forum thread for something like sequence breaking or hacking or whatever serves a dual purpose of documentation as well as discussion in the moment. If I want to find some info about some particular thing, and I know it was posted about in a particular thread three years ago, it helps if the thread isn't full of one-line posts that are completely irrelevant to the topic; that makes it kinda hard to search through. That's kind of important for m2k2, since this is a community built on researching and documenting game mechanics.

The way Taiga has tried to be both at the same time and be some kind of hybrid has always felt weird to me... I like the way pages automatically update, and I guess it's nice for casual discussions where nobody cares about documenting things, but treating threads like a chatroom hurts more serious discussion threads.

doesn't it kinda defeat the purpose of even having separate threads, as opposed to a chatroom, if staying on-topic isn't enforced to at least some degree? There's some value in an on-topic rule IMO. Chatrooms are nice for casual free-flowing conversations. The advantage of forums, though, is that people generally put more effort into any one particular post, and I think that tends to lead to more thoughtful and better-organized posts, and therefore to more involved (and more concise) discussions. So if I was interested in, say, seeing what Metroid fans think about Federation Force, most forums I could find a thread and read discussion on the subject I'm interested in and not see much irrelevant content.

The other difference is the fact that forum threads are permanently archived in public, which means a forum thread for something like sequence breaking or hacking or whatever serves a dual purpose of documentation as well as discussion in the moment. If I want to find some info about some particular thing, and I know it was posted about in a particular thread three years ago, it helps if the thread isn't full of one-line posts that are completely irrelevant to the topic; that makes it kinda hard to search through. That's kind of important for m2k2, since this is a community built on researching and documenting game mechanics.

The way Taiga has tried to be both at the same time and be some kind of hybrid has always felt weird to me... I like the way pages automatically update, and I guess it's nice for casual discussions where nobody cares about documenting things, but treating threads like a chatroom hurts more serious discussion threads.

2015-06-19 10:28:42 pm

red chamber dream

communities will moderate themselves on that, though, as evidenced by the last 6 years. there's not much so-called off topic chatter in the so-called serious threads on m2k2 because few of the people who like to be more social often post in those boards. they stick to the social boards that have more social threads.

Quote from Parax:

doesn't it kinda defeat the purpose of even having separate threads, as opposed to a chatroom, if staying on-topic isn't enforced to at least some degree?

no, again, as evidenced by the past 6 years of m2k2. threads are still largely kept to one topic, even when there's some random chatter, because that's how people like to speak to each other. when you have people whining about "staying on topic", you're hindering natural communication. i think that's harmful to everyone.

Edit history:

ryu: 2015-06-20 03:33:44 am

ryu: 2015-06-20 03:32:12 am

2015-06-20 03:31:17 am

I haven't seen much of an issue either. Also, I'm sure this topic drifted into a whole new discussion because there wasn't much left to say about MP:FF.

If there's an aspect about MP:FF you're dying to talk about, you can feel free to just open a new thread. If you feel like your post isn't worth a new thread, you can just post anyways. If people have anything to add, they're likely to respond.

If you're looking for information contained in an ages old thread, and can't find it anymore, you're free to open a new thread and ask people if they know what you're trying to learn.

And you're saying a forum is used for documentation purposes as well. I don't entirely disagree, but I think in those cases the information for documentation should be collected in the first post of a thread specifically made for that purpose. If you have to search for a piece of information in a thread and look at every post there is in it, it just shows that the information you're looking for hasn't been well documentated. It's just a random post then.

I haven't seen much of an issue either. Also, I'm sure this topic drifted into a whole new discussion because there wasn't much left to say about MP:FF.

If there's an aspect about MP:FF you're dying to talk about, you can feel free to just open a new thread. If you feel like your post isn't worth a new thread, you can just post anyways. If people have anything to add, they're likely to respond.

If you're looking for information contained in an ages old thread, and can't find it anymore, you're free to open a new thread and ask people if they know what you're trying to learn.

And you're saying a forum is used for documentation purposes as well. I don't entirely disagree, but I think in those cases the information for documentation should be collected in the first post of a thread specifically made for that purpose. If you have to search for a piece of information in a thread and look at every post there is in it, it just shows that the information you're looking for hasn't been well documentated. It's just a random post then.

Edit history:

ryu: 2015-06-20 03:34:33 am

2015-06-20 03:34:25 am

The only problematic case is when various hot topic debates are overlapping. But for that mods can split threads.

2015-06-20 04:20:34 am

Quote:

The way Taiga has tried to be both at the same time and be some kind of hybrid has always felt weird to me...

That's ultimately up to the moderation team of a given forum.

We could employ a bunch of super strict mods to make sure noone disturbs the law and order of each thread, but why? M2k2 is a small community where most people know each other. No point in ruining anyone's fun.

Edit history:

ryu: 2015-06-20 04:22:51 am

2015-06-20 04:22:30 am

You're also complaining about issues regarding intelligent discussions in a thread that never intended to promote that in the first place. I made this thread so we could have a good laugh, nothing more.

2015-06-20 10:51:45 am

I wasn't talking about this thread in particular.

Don't 100% agree with you guys, but I see your points and I do think there's value in what Taiga provides.

rekameohs

2015-06-20 02:29:16 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

What's "quarantine bay"? Cunt? Don't remember that one.

2015-06-20 02:38:53 pm

red chamber dream

it was two different words

pussy and twat

2015-06-20 02:39:16 pm

red chamber dream

cunt was samus lol

2015-06-20 02:42:10 pm

red chamber dream

and ryu's point about tf is spot-on, tf could easily be used as a traditional forum with strict moderation

so it wasn't that tf was designed to change a paradigm, more that tf made us realize moderation isn't really needed on m2k2

2015-06-20 02:42:43 pm

red chamber dream

and that's probably only because m2k2 is tiny, but who knows

2015-06-20 04:37:12 pm

Quote from Parax:

I wasn't talking about this thread in particular.

Of course. But it's this thread that animated you to make your point. And since it's a nonsense thread, it makes your issues with tf appear somewhat banal.

I don't think your points are completely wrong btw. It's just that I haven't had any issues with tf yet. But I don't browse the actual Metroid boards much, so those may benefit from a little more moderation. However there's no way for me to know with the little experience I have with those boards.

BioSpark

2015-06-20 04:56:54 pm

Quote from arkarian:

and that's probably only because m2k2 is tiny, but who knows

it's also because there haven't been any good metroid games in 10 years, so most of the users are older.

2015-06-20 05:01:50 pm

red chamber dream

yeah good point

2015-06-20 06:44:29 pm

Quote from ryu:

Of course. But it's this thread that animated you to make your point. And since it's a nonsense thread, it makes your issues with tf appear somewhat banal.

I made my point because the subject of off-topic threads just came up on the last page and I was responding :P Wasn't because I think this thread is super serious and needs to stay on-topic

Serris

2015-06-20 06:47:41 pm

I always knew that Pinball killed Metroid. The Pinball influences can be found all over Prime 3. Europe saw the danger and tried to stall, but two years after the NA release they finally caved in and the rest is history. A few months later, Link's Crossbow Training killed Zelda. There's a pattern here. Has anything killed Mario yet? I'm going to find out.

Opium

2015-06-20 08:02:21 pm

Mario is the non-character character that can be used for anything. Make a tennis game - put mario in it. Make a racing game - put mario in it. He's the generic guy that can do anything.

I wish they wouldn't do that with samus or link though because their characters and universes are more developed, so it becomes a stretch when you put them in something that doesn't fit. Why can't they just keep using mario to sell different kinds of games and just keep developing the universes and characters of metroid and zelda w/o the spin-offs? It sounds like a decision made by some ivy-league business school grad that's never even played the games before.

Serris

2015-06-20 08:31:27 pm

On a more serious note, Samus and Link have very much been player vessels as well. Link is overall still as generic as Mario (Link also gets reset in most games since he's a new Link, which complicates things), and when they fleshed out Samus over the years according to her backstory as a mildly traumatized child soldier raised as the messiah by weird aliens desperate for a human parental figure, they got a lot of backlash from people who never read any Zero Mission manga material and got thrown into overdone Other M without any warning after perceiving silent Samus as a badass female Rambo for years. At this point people have been filling these empty vessels themselves to the point where any real attempt at characterization is bound to end up upsetting most people. It's also clear that Miyamoto only cares about gameplay and the story is only important to the extent that it ties into the gameplay. He's retelling the original Star Fox for the 3rd (or 4th) time now because he just doesn't care about building some sort of continuity.