Super Metroid - Reverse Boss Order / Suitless Cyborg Run

2006-10-19 10:15:22 pm

Mega Flare

Bump after six weeks. Anything new?

2006-10-20 02:10:11 am

Christ, this is far the most amusing TAS I've seen.
Compared to the others at Tasvideos.org, this is a million times better.
I just love your short-short-charge.

Saturn

2006-10-20 12:46:48 pm

I got up till Botwoon using the 1-walljump technique alot but in water this appeared to be much more tricky than I thought and after more testings I found a way to speed it up even more and easily save many frames until Botwoon. So I decided to redo entire Maridia from beginning because I can't allow such mistakes in this run after so many optimizings before to keep the same speed-level further.

In the meantime I decided to also work on a any% TAS aside with this to have a change (which I need to not get too bored) and also because the previous any% TAS needs to be improved.

In the last time I was very busy with working and couldn't seriously continue TAS'ing any of them but I slowly record the any% at the moment. I'm still not sure if fighting Phantoon first will save any time in the end because of the many slowdowns in Wrecked Ship (no Speed Booster, no HJ-Boots, no Beams, less Missiles, less damage boosts etc.) but I decided to go this route anyway. I defeated Phantoon with JUST enough Missiles for the one-round kill and am on the way to Gravity Suit.

Depending on my temper I may continue working on the RBO run again pretty soon. And maybe I will also post teasers of the any% one someday when I get reasonable material to show.

Raccoon Sam:
Not sure if it's true but thank you man! I do my best to get it as perfect as possible and am willing to sacrifice working time to optimize every single frame in the run. That way it will take much time unless I finish the runs but therefore the end product will be the better for which it's worth the effort.

I got up till Botwoon using the 1-walljump technique alot but in water this appeared to be much more tricky than I thought and after more testings I found a way to speed it up even more and easily save many frames until Botwoon. So I decided to redo entire Maridia from beginning because I can't allow such mistakes in this run after so many optimizings before to keep the same speed-level further.

In the meantime I decided to also work on a any% TAS aside with this to have a change (which I need to not get too bored) and also because the previous any% TAS needs to be improved.

In the last time I was very busy with working and couldn't seriously continue TAS'ing any of them but I slowly record the any% at the moment. I'm still not sure if fighting Phantoon first will save any time in the end because of the many slowdowns in Wrecked Ship (no Speed Booster, no HJ-Boots, no Beams, less Missiles, less damage boosts etc.) but I decided to go this route anyway. I defeated Phantoon with JUST enough Missiles for the one-round kill and am on the way to Gravity Suit.

Depending on my temper I may continue working on the RBO run again pretty soon. And maybe I will also post teasers of the any% one someday when I get reasonable material to show.

Raccoon Sam:
Not sure if it's true but thank you man! I do my best to get it as perfect as possible and am willing to sacrifice working time to optimize every single frame in the run. That way it will take much time unless I finish the runs but therefore the end product will be the better for which it's worth the effort.

BlueGlass

2006-10-20 01:49:53 pm

I agree completely with Raccoon Sam. Saturn, your dedication to the perfection of this TAS is simply amazing. When the finished product comes out, I'll be sure to watch it many, many times. And it's great to know that you're working on a new any% as well. I wonder how low the time can go?

P.JMan

2006-10-20 02:28:29 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from Saturn:

I got up till Botwoon using the 1-walljump technique alot but in water this appeared to be much more tricky than I thought and after more testings I found a way to speed it up even more and easily save many frames until Botwoon. So I decided to redo entire Maridia from beginning because I can't allow such mistakes in this run after so many optimizings before to keep the same speed-level further.

Where will you be 1 Wall-Jumping?

Saturn

2006-10-20 02:31:17 pm

I can't say for sure but I hope to get something around 23-24 min for any%, and due to the facts that I am at 16 min after leaving Lower Norfair in RBO I guess to get something around 35-40 min there if Maridia won't be all too slow.

PJMan:
The shortcut room right of the mainstreet room, in some places in Mt. Doom and possibly even in the big room before Botwoon (I still have to compare it more exactly with the snail climb there).

P.JMan

2006-10-20 03:05:03 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

You are aware of Door Climbing the big snail room?

Raccoon Sam

2006-10-20 03:08:19 pm

Yeah, I'm completely honest here.
The moment I saw the vid, I thought "Hey, TASes are awesome! I should go and get one from TASVideos.org."
I went there, downloaded the run, and was disappointed. Very disappointed. :(

Seeing how the runs use so old and even some failed tricks, I really was expecting more. But your run will be better, I can feel it.

On a side note, when are you on MSN? I tried contacting you but you're not on so often.

Saturn

2006-10-20 03:39:49 pm

Door climbing is only possible if having the X-Ray scope. I think it takes more time to get it than the save in the snail room. Also it requires a Crystal Flash which will take away all of my important ammo for the Draygon one.

Raccoon Sam:
You did watch Teri's any% TAS there right? It is almost 2 years old by now and doesn't use arm-pumping. Be sure to check JXQ's 100% one which is the most recent one. It uses almost all of the new tricks (except shortest charge) and is pretty similar to mine in the techniques. It's currently one of the best TAS'es there so I think you will like it.

About MSN: I don't have it. Best way to contact me is via PM or email. I also drop by at the IRC channels of TASvideos or JZD from time to time.

moozooh

2006-10-20 04:29:53 pm

Quote from Saturn:

I got up till Botwoon using the 1-walljump technique alot but in water this appeared to be much more tricky than I thought and after more testings I found a way to speed it up even more and easily save many frames until Botwoon.

Like how? Needless to say that I'm interested. :)

Raccoon Sam:
Here's a good link to remember: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-RatingY.html. These are all the runs sorted by their overall rating. Basically everything from 8.0 and upward is really worth watching. I really recommend watching Sonic runs (especially those by Nitsuja), as they are among the most spectacular videos on the site, both visually and technically. Also, check this run for a good laugh. :)

Saturn

2006-10-20 06:38:15 pm

Well, the frequency between the walljumps is one of the reasons: I first thought in water it's best to have it as high as possible but even there it's faster to wait around 6-8 frames between the jumps (I only waited 3 frames before which turned out to be slower in the end). Then, in the shortcut room I found a trick to freeze the fish near the top door and use it as a platform to jump off. Also for some reason you get a additional high gain by holding towards the frozen fish (apparently works on any frozen enemy) after a walljump off the opposite wall for a couple more frames to reach the top of it faster for some reason. There are other minor tricks but I guess they'll be too complicated to understand for a non-Metroid TAS'er anyway.

ducknerd

2006-12-23 12:42:44 pm

Eschews avatars

Bumped.
Out of curiosity, how do you intend to kill Draygon? I've been messing around with doing a non-TAS suitless run, but can't find a way to finish him that leaves me at the top of the room. Earlier, someone was talking about using beam shields on the top ledge after getting the perma-shinespark (NOT blue suit), but I don't see
how Draygon would ever fly up that high. When I tried it, he just flew around below me, invincible, until I got frustrated and quit.
So, what's your method, and is it possible without tool-assistance?

P.JMan

2006-12-23 01:08:04 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from Kejardon:

Reverse boss is fully possible. Lower Norfair is a royal pain, but with pre-planned crystal flashes and as much equipment as you can bring, you can make it. Picking up the Screw Attack via the Green Gate glitch will make it significantly easier.Climbing the mountain before Draygon is already well-known and infamous. You can use the frozen enemy glitch to reach Botwoon. You can mid-air morph through the energy tank path in the next room to skip the speed blocks. A few frozen mochtroids will get you to Draygon's front door.The real trick is getting out of Draygon's lair after you kill him. There are a variety of ways, though I haven't kept up on them much.The way I found (Incredibly hard): Do a crystal flash, then let him grab you. Quickly break out of his grasp. You'll have a one-shot super jump available, so you'll have to be careful not to set it off early on accident. Beat up Draygon till he's almost dead. Head to the far left of the room, then wait till he's about to swoop from the right. At the correct time and position, you can do a super jump up-right and kill Draygon, land on the exit, and have a blue suit. Use the blue suit in the next room to escape from the pit.Haven't tested this (and I may not remember it 100% correctly), but I heard that there's a somewhat easier way:Beat him up till he's almost dead, then let him grab you. When he's near the top-right, break out of his grasp (it's a set number of buttonpresses, I think it's 100 but I'm not sure) and land on the platform. Then, at the correct time and position, use a Wave SBA (charge up the beam with a powerbomb), then quickly crystal flash. You want to kill him with the Wave shot while in the Crystal flash. If you do it right, you'll get a one-shot super jump. Use it in the next room to escape from the pit.

[quote="Kejardon"]Reverse boss is fully possible. Lower Norfair is a royal pain, but with pre-planned crystal flashes and as much equipment as you can bring, you can make it. Picking up the Screw Attack via the Green Gate glitch will make it significantly easier.Climbing the mountain before Draygon is already well-known and infamous. You can use the frozen enemy glitch to reach Botwoon. You can mid-air morph through the energy tank path in the next room to skip the speed blocks. A few frozen mochtroids will get you to Draygon's front door.The real trick is getting out of Draygon's lair after you kill him. There are a variety of ways, though I haven't kept up on them much.The way I found (Incredibly hard): Do a crystal flash, then let him grab you. Quickly break out of his grasp. You'll have a one-shot super jump available, so you'll have to be careful not to set it off early on accident. Beat up Draygon till he's almost dead. Head to the far left of the room, then wait till he's about to swoop from the right. At the correct time and position, you can do a super jump up-right and kill Draygon, land on the exit, and have a blue suit. Use the blue suit in the next room to escape from the pit.Haven't tested this (and I may not remember it 100% correctly), but I heard that there's a somewhat easier way:Beat him up till he's almost dead, then let him grab you. When he's near the top-right, break out of his grasp (it's a set number of buttonpresses, I think it's 100 but I'm not sure) and land on the platform. Then, at the correct time and position, use a Wave SBA (charge up the beam with a powerbomb), then quickly crystal flash. You want to kill him with the Wave shot while in the Crystal flash. If you do it right, you'll get a one-shot super jump. Use it in the next room to escape from the pit.[/quote]

ING-X

2007-01-07 11:45:22 am

yeah

Quote from Saturn:

Thats because of the pumping arms by pressing the L or R button every 2nd frame. Its a trick that lets Samus run about 5-10% faster than normal which is enough to cross the gates.

I tried this and it didn't work. I held down L Autofire while running across the bridge; the gates closed on me before I could get past them. And thanks to BlueGlass, I now have the NTSC ROM. Just making sure everyone knew before they started saying "It's because you use the PAL version".

moozooh

2007-01-07 02:15:02 pm

It requires fine adjusting the pixel position to work like that (the gate should contact Samus's head when it's already underneath). Also, you won't be able to clear the third gate in this manner, it requires a jump or a mockball to pass through it not falling down.

Note that this is not because Samus doesn't run faster, it's because she's running in "full height".

Lawrence Reyome

2007-01-09 12:56:36 am

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

True Super Metroid perfection IMO, and the soundtracks are killer too.

=D> \:D/

*Bows to the great Super Metroid master*

Raccoon Sam

2007-01-09 01:36:38 am

I'm most excited about how he's going to handle Maridia.
I remember climbing the mountain in Maridia without the graivty suit. It was fun and all that, since you had to freeze enemies and do incredible underwater wall-jumps, and all this while underwater with unbelievably difficult physics.

It may sound difficult but it was fun.

Then again, getting out of Draygon's room was just about so difficult, it lead to the loss of my left eye, severe nosebleed, cancer, AIDS and a divorce.
I wouldn't advise you to even attempt the thing, but then again, what am I to rule you :X

ICheatAtGolf

2007-01-14 03:10:51 am

i hope this is done soon...super metroid hasn't had any improvement for a while

moozooh

2007-01-14 10:21:01 am

I have some "news".

First, not so good news: as some of you may know, Saturn has lleft for his duties and will be away for a year, postponing both the RBO run and any% he was doing at the same time until ~mid-2008.

Better news: TASer named hero of the day decided to do any% instead, aiming for the highest realtime speed (hence the somewhat oddball route; it was designed to eliminate backtracking and cut the amount of needed items to the minimum). It will most likely be a minute+ slower than the in-game time oriented run, and also less potentially entertaining due to the lack of several items such as Space Jump or Plasma, but the best part of it is that it will be done, thankfully obsoleting Terimakasih's severely outdated run.

BlueGlass

2007-01-14 11:16:15 am

This looks to be extremely interesting.

ING-X

2007-01-15 08:43:05 am

yeah

Hmm, I can't seem to be able to do the Crystal Flash on my emulator (snes9x). I even assigned the L and R buttons to the same key, nothing. Just a power bomb explosion. If anyone can help on this that would be great.

BlueGlass

2007-01-15 09:42:16 am

Make sure you're holding down, shoot, L, and R, and nothing else. Also, make sure your keyboard can register all those key presses at once.

ING-X

2007-01-15 09:45:13 am

yeah

So should I assign L and R both to one key when I'm using a crystal flash?

arkarian

2007-01-15 11:46:05 am

red chamber dream

If you can do that, it sounds like it would work. What he meant though was just to make sure that your keyboard is able to register all three keys (the shoot key, the L key, and the R key) if you hold them down simultaneously.

moozooh

2007-01-16 01:55:21 am

Quote from Arkarian:

... able to register all three keys (the shoot key, the L key, and the R key)

Forgot the down key; thus four.