E3 2010 - Hands-On Videos [locked]

2010-06-16 08:34:43 pm

Alright, I can respect the idea that Wind Waker did have a certain level of personality to the animation, but why on Earth would you want that for a Metroid game? From what I've noticed over the years, the 'personality' that the Metroid games had were when they were still 2-dimensional, thereby unique [though not in comparison to the rest of the games of that time period]. And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC. Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time. Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance. Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage. It is not about stylizing anymore.

I, on the other hand, think that Other M looks awesome. :3

Alright, I can respect the idea that Wind Waker did have a certain level of personality to the animation, but why on Earth would you want [i]that[/i] for a Metroid game?  From what I've noticed over the years, the 'personality' that the Metroid games had were when they were still 2-dimensional, thereby unique [though not in comparison to the rest of the games of that time period].  And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC.  Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time.  Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance.  Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage.  It is not about [i]stylizing[/i] anymore.

[i]I[/i], on the other hand, think that Other M looks awesome.  :3

penguinseatsocks

2010-06-16 08:43:38 pm

Quote from WithKeyLymes:

Alright, I can respect the idea that Wind Waker did have a certain level of personality to the animation, but why on Earth would you want that for a Metroid game? From what I've noticed over the years, the 'personality' that the Metroid games had were when they were still 2-dimensional, thereby unique [though not in comparison to the rest of the games of that time period]. And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC. Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time. Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance. Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage. It is not about stylizing anymore.

I, on the other hand, think that Other M looks awesome. :3

Amen. And tell your grandma I said thanks.

[quote="WithKeyLymes"]Alright, I can respect the idea that Wind Waker did have a certain level of personality to the animation, but why on Earth would you want [i]that[/i] for a Metroid game?  From what I've noticed over the years, the 'personality' that the Metroid games had were when they were still 2-dimensional, thereby unique [though not in comparison to the rest of the games of that time period].  And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC.  Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time.  Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance.  Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage.  It is not about [i]stylizing[/i] anymore.

[i]I[/i], on the other hand, think that Other M looks awesome.  :3[/quote]

Amen.  And tell your grandma I said thanks.

072

2010-06-16 08:43:56 pm

coral to complement blue

Except games CAN look at least semi-realistic and still have good art direction. (Forget about Metroid Prime?)

072

2010-06-16 08:48:16 pm

coral to complement blue

BTW tbob, Super and Fusion both have a dark, haunting atmosphere which relies pretty strongly on the fact that they aren't cel-shaded.

WithKeyLymes

2010-06-16 08:50:01 pm

Quote from 072:

Except games CAN look at least semi-realistic and still have good art direction. (Forget about Metroid Prime?)

"Oh, I know well about Metroid Prime, but did you read the difference from what you wrote and what I did? I said that they were going from personality of the works to realism, not semi-realism. They're working toward the realistic, not settling on the semi-realistic. Let me also bring up the fact that Metroid Prime is an older game, made for the GameCube. Not current. Not Other M. Not what I was talking about."

072

2010-06-16 08:52:16 pm

coral to complement blue

How else am I supposed to interpret "you can't quite have both [realism and personality] at the same time"?

tomatobob

2010-06-16 08:56:42 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from WithKeyLymes:

And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC. Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time. Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance. Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage. It is not about stylizing anymore.

This is the problem. Realism is boring, I can look out side and see realism better than any game will ever manage. You have a medium where you can make literally anything possible and you wan to imitate real life? Why the fuck would you want that? I can't jump forty feet in the air, blow up some crazy looking monster, save the princess, and become king of the universe in real life. And the close graphics get to realism the more absurd the crazy shit you can do in them will look. Not to mention that no console will ever be able to really make a 'realistic' human with realistic movements so you might as well have fun with what you're doing.

Quote from 072:

Except games CAN look at least semi-realistic and still have good art direction. (Forget about Metroid Prime?)

This too. If your art direction is good you can get away with a lot, Prime kept just enough off the realism line to keep it from looking dated or dull.

Quote from 072:

BTW tbob, Super and Fusion both have a dark, haunting atmosphere which relies pretty strongly on the fact that they aren't cel-shaded.

Not true. Cel shading doesn't mean that you have to have a bright happy game. Okami had plenty of 'dark' environments that looked good with its style, a Metroid game could totally pull it off. Hell Fusion itself is full of bright colors despite its darker atmosphere. Samus in Other M, well at least her suit, has a sort of cel- shaded look to it as well. A little Crackdown-y I think, it's just that aside from the Feds nothing else really does so it looks weird to me.

[quote="WithKeyLymes"] And, really, from what I can tell about the Wii system, and for that matter all games that have been coming out for the larger consoles, is that the graphics are supposed to be REALISTIC.  Realism is not the same as personality, and you can't quite have both of them at the same time.  Games and their creators already found their preferred nitch of what they wanted their games to look like when games needed a defined, well-known appearance.  Now, however, they've abandoned that in the hopes of making the coolest, most realistic and exciting game that they can manage.  It is not about [i]stylizing[/i] anymore.[/quote]
This is the problem. [i]Realism is boring[/i], I can look out side and see realism better than any game will ever manage. You have a medium where you can make literally anything possible and you wan to imitate real life? Why the fuck would you want that? I can't jump forty feet in the air, blow up some crazy looking monster, save the princess, and become king of the universe in real life. And the close graphics get to realism the more absurd the crazy shit you can do in them will look. Not to mention that no console will ever be able to really make a 'realistic' human with realistic movements so you might as well have fun with what you're doing.

[quote="072"]Except games CAN look at least semi-realistic and still have good art direction. (Forget about Metroid Prime?)[/quote]
This too. If your art direction is good you can get away with a lot, Prime kept just enough off the realism line to keep it from looking dated or dull.

[quote="072"]BTW tbob, Super and Fusion both have a dark, haunting atmosphere which relies pretty strongly on the fact that they aren't cel-shaded.[/quote]
Not true. Cel shading doesn't mean that you have to have a bright happy game. Okami had plenty of 'dark' environments that looked good with its style, a Metroid game could totally pull it off. Hell Fusion itself is full of bright colors despite its darker atmosphere. Samus in Other M, well at least her suit, has a sort of cel- shaded look to it as well. A little Crackdown-y I think, it's just that aside from the Feds nothing else really does so it looks weird to me.

WithKeyLymes

2010-06-16 08:58:38 pm

"Well, yeah, realism is boring as shit. I didn't say that I approve of it. I just said that's what they're doing."

"Along with that, I don't think Other M looks as boringly realistic as this conversation seems to have implied that it is. Really, I don't think it's that terribly different-looking in graphics that Prime."

: /

tomatobob

2010-06-16 08:58:51 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

For the record I don't really dislike Other M's look, I'm just not sure if I like it yet either. I don't see the N64 graphics argument myself, but I'm guessing it mostly ark being ark.

arkarian

2010-06-16 08:59:32 pm

red chamber dream

i think games that try to look like real life are fine. i love games with realistic graphics like uncharted. that's different from realism in games, which is a different debate entirely.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2010-06-16 09:06:04 pm

arkarian: 2010-06-16 09:03:54 pm

2010-06-16 09:01:23 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from tomatobob:

For the record I don't really dislike Other M's look, I'm just not sure if I like it yet either

like i said earlier, the most recent trailer makes it seem like it actually might look decent. i still don't understand the neon yellow varia suit though ...

Quote from tomatobob:

I don't see the N64 graphics argument myself, but I'm guessing it mostly ark being ark.

http://samuel.arkarian.org/othermscreen.jpg

http://www.nintendo-power.de/files/images/wallpaper/banjo-tooie-(6).jpg?s=cf5b54c2e8ea912951cb5376ad1498fe

i see textures on the latter ...

BioSpark

2010-06-16 09:04:13 pm

even before ark said it, i myself thought it looked like n64. i mean i'll have to play it, but i haven't been impressed so far.

also, i agree with ark and tbob that tww's graphics are some of the best i've seen.

tomatobob

2010-06-16 09:05:27 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Even Uncharted didn't go too far with the realistic look though, at least not with the environments. The people look awful though.

Quote from arkarian:

http://samuel.arkarian.org/othermscreen.jpg

I maintain that the presence of noses that are not sharp triangles put it in at very worse early cube era.
Second link is no good by the way. You image leeching monster.

penguinseatsocks

2010-06-16 09:07:46 pm

Realistic graphics are perfectly fine with me. I don't demand that they be in my games, but they're nice.

Realistic gameplay is where I think the problem comes in. It's what makes Grand Theft Auto entirely unplayable to me. I could walk outside and do everything I can do in that game, if I really felt like it. I can't go blast floating space jellyfish with my arm laser and convert my body into a ball of kinetic energy or fight cyborg space dragons. That's why I play Metroid.

BioSpark

2010-06-16 09:09:00 pm

gta is pretty unrealistic to me.

072

2010-06-16 09:09:21 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from tomatobob:

You have a medium where you can make literally anything possible and you wan to imitate real life?

This.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-06-16 09:12:19 pm

2010-06-16 09:09:23 pm

I see a "Nintendo blocks you!" on the second one. laugh new

Ok yeah, it doesn't have a lot of texture, but how does that automatically equal N64? A lot of the stuff in Galaxy doesn't have a lot of texture to it and those things still look great. Take this for instance: SMG 2

Maybe it's because there's a lot of texture in other things that makes Samus stand out so much? Personally I love the environments we've seen in those more recent gameplay videos. They seem lush and full of detail to me, but still harbor that dangerous feeling that Metroid has always been good at providing to us.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2010-06-16 09:10:27 pm

2010-06-16 09:09:30 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from BioSpark:

i mean i'll have to play it

of course. doesn't mean we can't bash it in the meantime though. ;)

Quote from tomatobob:

Even Uncharted didn't go too far with the realistic look though, at least not with the environments.

you've got to be messing with me or something. haven't you said you've never played uncharted? the second in particular looks absolutely fantastic. some of it looks almost photorealistic.

Quote from tomatobob:

Second link is no good by the way. You image leeching monster.

should be fixed.

penguinseatsocks

2010-06-16 09:10:03 pm

Quote from BioSpark:

gta is pretty unrealistic to me.

All it is is a New York City simulation.

072

2010-06-16 09:19:50 pm

coral to complement blue

As for the N64 thing, compare Samus in that picture side by side with this:

http://n64media.ign.com/media/previews/image/ssb9_640w.jpg

You really can't see a difference?

arkarian

2010-06-16 09:22:47 pm

red chamber dream

super smash bros. doesn't look nearly as good as other n64 games. btw i don't think other m literally looks like an n64 game. i'm just bashing it because of my low expectations.

tomatobob

2010-06-16 09:24:32 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from arkarian:

Quote from tomatobob:

Even Uncharted didn't go too far with the realistic look though, at least not with the environments.

you've got to be messing with me or something. haven't you said you've never played uncharted? the second in particular looks absolutely fantastic. some of it looks almost photorealistic.

Haven't played it, seen a good amount of it though, at least the first one. There are some really good environments there, but I wouldn't go with photorealistic. It's definitely pretty stylized, but that's why it's good. Another example of actually good art direction in a game, no system can pull off photorealism, perfectly capturing something that complex just isn't going to happen, so you either throw a brown filter over all of it and wash the colors out or you make it brighter and give it some style. You know put some effort into making it actually look good or stand out. If the gameplay wasn't such a turn off for me I'd probably get a PS3 for it. Wink

[quote="arkarian"][quote="tomatobob"]Even Uncharted didn't go too far with the realistic look though, at least not with the environments.[/quote]
you've got to be messing with me or something. haven't you said you've never played uncharted? the second in particular looks absolutely fantastic. some of it looks almost photorealistic.[/quote]
Haven't played it, seen a good amount of it though, at least the first one. There are some really good environments there, but I wouldn't go with photorealistic. It's definitely pretty stylized, but that's why it's good. Another example of actually good art direction in a game, no system can pull off photorealism, perfectly capturing something that complex just isn't going to happen, so you either throw a brown filter over all of it and wash the colors out or you make it brighter and give it some style. You know put some effort into making it actually look good or stand out. If the gameplay wasn't such a turn off for me I'd probably get a PS3 for it. :wink:

tomatobob

Edit history:

tomatobob: 2010-06-16 09:31:39 pm

2010-06-16 09:28:33 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from penguinseatsocks:

All it is is a New York City simulation.

GTA IV maybe, Vice City was one of the least realistic games I've played. Granted most of my experience involved a tank with the flying cars code active, but the fact that you could do that at all speaks volumes.

Quote from arkarian:

btw i don't think other m literally looks like an n64 game. i'm just bashing it because of my low expectations.

Quote from tomatobob:

but I'm guessing it mostly ark being ark.

One day the others will understand ark. aiwebs_008

arkarian

2010-06-16 09:30:11 pm

red chamber dream

i have no idea what you mean by "stylized" in this case. uncharted doesn't try to go for anything except absolutely realistic graphics.

tomatobob

2010-06-16 09:32:05 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Bloom for one :p