He is talking about a different Burning Trail SW, not magmoor workstation.
Quote from Paraxade:
Burning Trail
I never even mentioned Magmoor Workstation...
Archived M2K2 Forum
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@StefanvanDijeke: You're right. I had already known about it but didn't write about it for some reason. But nice that you pointed it out for ppl that will - hopefully - stumble across this topic. But yeah it's really worth mentioning that the puzzle can also be solved w/o SJB unless you're also lacking Boost Ball; then, it can't be solved.
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Okay so we have 2 alternative UBJs for that HBJ, one I did where I still didn't understand what you meant and which just makes this one way harder, and this one. Weird how things can turn out, but nice!
M177: About the alternative that you REALLY spoke off; it doesn't seem possible as the other platform is far more away from the wall as you might think and without a partly-HBJ-timing (i.e. against the wall) you won't get enough height probably (what I tested yesterday before I ended our little dolphin-research).
M177: About the alternative that you REALLY spoke off; it doesn't seem possible as the other platform is far more away from the wall as you might think and without a partly-HBJ-timing (i.e. against the wall) you won't get enough height probably (what I tested yesterday before I ended our little dolphin-research).
Phendrana's Edge incredible setup for if you are climbing the room without grapple or space jump. Also yeah, I climbed the whole room inbounds on console non-spliced. It's really not that bad now with my discoveries. Detailed Description for how I setup the obnoxious first dash.
Edit: I already put this in the description but start watching at 20:56 for the successful climb
Edit: I already put this in the description but start watching at 20:56 for the successful climb
Edit history:
Metroid177: 2014-08-18 12:13:52 am
Metroid177: 2014-08-18 12:13:24 am
Metroid177: 2014-08-18 12:11:39 am
baby sheegoth no one used a ubj from the tree like I did a couple days ago.
Edit: the old way for that was to do a difficult/awkward hbj to the next platform. I balance on a slightly higher point, ubj, and change the camera which is way easier.
Edit: the old way for that was to do a difficult/awkward hbj to the next platform. I balance on a slightly higher point, ubj, and change the camera which is way easier.
that's interesting. The only video I ever had for phendrana's edge reference was t3's video.
At 0:27 he does an hbj (using the wall) to make it to the next platform. I never could really get that to work so I found an alternative. I though it was new, but I guess it's not if you remember someone doing it before :(
At 0:27 he does an hbj (using the wall) to make it to the next platform. I never could really get that to work so I found an alternative. I though it was new, but I guess it's not if you remember someone doing it before :(
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Alrigtht, so that makes it 3 people in this small club.
Credit goes to (in chronological order)...
...T3 for being the first person to ever do P's Edge in-bounds and proving that it's withing human abilities to do this room in one go - even though it used to be so much harder back then.
...myself for finding the Ghetto Dash which replaces the very weird/ hard DBJ + easy dash.
...Metroid177 for finding the new UBJ that replaces the hard/ weird HBJ.
This only took me 3-4 hours (in that time there's more than 1 hours included where I messed around with various things on a file WITH SJB, e.g. learning that new UBJ discovered by M177.
I only ever got up to that platform you usually need Grapple Beam for TWICE; once I messed up the tight DBJ (didn't want to do the semi-laddered UBJ) but that's the only time I messed up the upper part because I got the Ghetto Dash I discovered first try as I got there for the first time ever. So yeah, without the need to do that VERY weird/ hard DBJ onto the Grapple Point and then do an easy but risky dash bended backwards (as poor guy T3 had to do back then), the upper part became much less hard. And with M177's setup for the first - very tight/ hard - dash, I could finally get that dash to work several times per hour and not just 1-3 times per hour. I even managed to get that dash twice in a row! The "correct" setup for the first dash along with the brandnew UBJ discovered by M177 which replaces the weird/ hard semi-laddered HBJ, makes the first half of the room way less hard than it used to be (for me, at least).
If I ever go back and improve my 21% SS time, there's a question to be answered: Isn't P's Edge doable in less time than doing the HUGE wallcrawl from Ice Ruins West to Storage Cavern/ SPIRIT? I mean, seriously now, if you get P's Edge in less than an hour - which is entrirely possible now - you could save time. Just a thought worth mentioning... ;-) There're so many other things to do/ change for the 21% route if I wanna "speedrun" 21% SS.
Credit goes to (in chronological order)...
...T3 for being the first person to ever do P's Edge in-bounds and proving that it's withing human abilities to do this room in one go - even though it used to be so much harder back then.
...myself for finding the Ghetto Dash which replaces the very weird/ hard DBJ + easy dash.
...Metroid177 for finding the new UBJ that replaces the hard/ weird HBJ.
This only took me 3-4 hours (in that time there's more than 1 hours included where I messed around with various things on a file WITH SJB, e.g. learning that new UBJ discovered by M177.
I only ever got up to that platform you usually need Grapple Beam for TWICE; once I messed up the tight DBJ (didn't want to do the semi-laddered UBJ) but that's the only time I messed up the upper part because I got the Ghetto Dash I discovered first try as I got there for the first time ever. So yeah, without the need to do that VERY weird/ hard DBJ onto the Grapple Point and then do an easy but risky dash bended backwards (as poor guy T3 had to do back then), the upper part became much less hard. And with M177's setup for the first - very tight/ hard - dash, I could finally get that dash to work several times per hour and not just 1-3 times per hour. I even managed to get that dash twice in a row! The "correct" setup for the first dash along with the brandnew UBJ discovered by M177 which replaces the weird/ hard semi-laddered HBJ, makes the first half of the room way less hard than it used to be (for me, at least).
If I ever go back and improve my 21% SS time, there's a question to be answered: Isn't P's Edge doable in less time than doing the HUGE wallcrawl from Ice Ruins West to Storage Cavern/ SPIRIT? I mean, seriously now, if you get P's Edge in less than an hour - which is entrirely possible now - you could save time. Just a thought worth mentioning... ;-) There're so many other things to do/ change for the 21% route if I wanna "speedrun" 21% SS.
(user is banned)
i have started a new ntsc normal mode segmented 21% run and am saved with 11% in phazon mines central dynamo. whenever i need help in my process during the run i'll ask you guys ok? does anyone know whether vent shaft is a lot harder without space jump? in my old ntsc 22% 1:34 run i got vent shaft on my 3rd attempt but i had space jump there. and now i don't have space jump and it's giving me trouble without space jump. the worst is, knowing that after vent shaft i'll even have to climb ppc... and there is no way to save anywhere after vent shaft and before ppc....
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Nice to hear that you started 21%! I hope you didn't have too much problems getting already that far (11% means Plasma Beam = already gotten?)!
1) Vent Shaft took me about 12 hrs to get and the vent shaft+ppc segmentet as a whole took me about 20 hrs on my 1st 21% file.
I had never ever done Vent Shaft (in 22%; with SJB) Halfpipe Bomb Jump (I always used the dash method discovered by bartendorsparky). But it's very hard to learn to say the least. How well you can do it on a 22% file says nothing about how well you can do it on a 21% file; just remember that all those great people from back then who were good at all those 22% tricks, including vent shaft HPBJ, at first thought vent shaft wasn't possible; or at least not with the same type of bomb jump as done in 22%. but we know it is possible but requires insane precision. once you've learned the 21% HPBJ for vent shaft you're likely to get it several times per HOUR (not minute lol), so you can definetly do PPC aferwards.
2) in PPC: DO NOT DESTROY those crates/ boxes at the bottom of the room; it's VERY hard to get back to the middle platform once those boxes are destroyed. (1 TOUGH DBJ (among other things) required if there're no boxes anymore)
3) you can reload PPC from time to time aka if you're below 50 health. restore health in that room with the elevator (be careful of the 3(+2) shadow pirates in the room between that room and PPC though and then restore health further in PPC with that tower of crates at the middle platform just in front of you when you enter PPC)
4) the room after PPC can be cleared with taking 2-3 units of damage with a neat EASY little trick that Metroid177 discovered; jump to the right side of the wall and thenfrom there jump to the platform in the middle of that little room. Then jump into the Phazon and do a Ghetto Jump at the left side.
5) alternatively, you could also just use the 21% Omega Research SW which was discovered by T3 to skip vent shaft + ppc. I've never done that wallcrawl under 21% conditions and I have never entered that SW under 21% conditions either so you might want to ask someone else about it. According to T3, it should be WAY easier than LEARNING vent shaft + ppc though. the only thing that i can say is that NOW that I know very well how I can do vent shaft + ppc in a reasonable time, I won't bother with the Omega Research SW + annoying wallcrawl.
PS: I'd like you to pose questions about GAMEPLAY in the I need help topic since this, my Various NSJ & 21% topic USED TO BE thought to be a place for ideas/ theories and discussions and rather not for questions about how you can pull off something that is already known to be doable. Well, nevermind, I guess, since there're already plenty of other things in this thread that I ORIGINALLY wouldn't have wished to belong here.
1) Vent Shaft took me about 12 hrs to get and the vent shaft+ppc segmentet as a whole took me about 20 hrs on my 1st 21% file.
I had never ever done Vent Shaft (in 22%; with SJB) Halfpipe Bomb Jump (I always used the dash method discovered by bartendorsparky). But it's very hard to learn to say the least. How well you can do it on a 22% file says nothing about how well you can do it on a 21% file; just remember that all those great people from back then who were good at all those 22% tricks, including vent shaft HPBJ, at first thought vent shaft wasn't possible; or at least not with the same type of bomb jump as done in 22%. but we know it is possible but requires insane precision. once you've learned the 21% HPBJ for vent shaft you're likely to get it several times per HOUR (not minute lol), so you can definetly do PPC aferwards.
2) in PPC: DO NOT DESTROY those crates/ boxes at the bottom of the room; it's VERY hard to get back to the middle platform once those boxes are destroyed. (1 TOUGH DBJ (among other things) required if there're no boxes anymore)
3) you can reload PPC from time to time aka if you're below 50 health. restore health in that room with the elevator (be careful of the 3(+2) shadow pirates in the room between that room and PPC though and then restore health further in PPC with that tower of crates at the middle platform just in front of you when you enter PPC)
4) the room after PPC can be cleared with taking 2-3 units of damage with a neat EASY little trick that Metroid177 discovered; jump to the right side of the wall and thenfrom there jump to the platform in the middle of that little room. Then jump into the Phazon and do a Ghetto Jump at the left side.
5) alternatively, you could also just use the 21% Omega Research SW which was discovered by T3 to skip vent shaft + ppc. I've never done that wallcrawl under 21% conditions and I have never entered that SW under 21% conditions either so you might want to ask someone else about it. According to T3, it should be WAY easier than LEARNING vent shaft + ppc though. the only thing that i can say is that NOW that I know very well how I can do vent shaft + ppc in a reasonable time, I won't bother with the Omega Research SW + annoying wallcrawl.
PS: I'd like you to pose questions about GAMEPLAY in the I need help topic since this, my Various NSJ & 21% topic USED TO BE thought to be a place for ideas/ theories and discussions and rather not for questions about how you can pull off something that is already known to be doable. Well, nevermind, I guess, since there're already plenty of other things in this thread that I ORIGINALLY wouldn't have wished to belong here.
(user is banned)
no i didn't have much problems so far, as i haven't gotten plasma beam yet, i'm basically following Metroid177's route in his hard segmented 21% run: misile launcher, morph ball, bombs, varia, wild, nature, wave, strength artifact, artifact of lifegiver (in ruined shrine i used your method by ghetto jumping off the half pipe to the branch and then using the half pipe's scan point and scan dashing off the branch), ice beam, power bombs. the next segment though is going to be the first really difficult segment in this run.
well actually i know how to do the half pipe bomb jump in vent shaft, in my old 22% run i used the bomb jump method and got it on my 3rd attempt. i never used the dash method. but i see the bomb jump seems to be a lot more difficult without space jump since i don't get that extra height boost when unmorphing without space jump. i also did the bomb jump at the half pipe in crossway which iirc is harder than the vent shaft bomb jump, and did the bomb jump on the stone toad in reflecting pool at ice beam. so i already know how to do that bomb jump. but i think the lack of space jump and the lack of the additional boost when unmorphing is making the vent shaft bomb jump a lot more difficult than under 22% conditions.
ok sorry i'll post in the other topic for the future.
well actually i know how to do the half pipe bomb jump in vent shaft, in my old 22% run i used the bomb jump method and got it on my 3rd attempt. i never used the dash method. but i see the bomb jump seems to be a lot more difficult without space jump since i don't get that extra height boost when unmorphing without space jump. i also did the bomb jump at the half pipe in crossway which iirc is harder than the vent shaft bomb jump, and did the bomb jump on the stone toad in reflecting pool at ice beam. so i already know how to do that bomb jump. but i think the lack of space jump and the lack of the additional boost when unmorphing is making the vent shaft bomb jump a lot more difficult than under 22% conditions.
ok sorry i'll post in the other topic for the future.
The out of bounds strategy is super easy compared to the inbounds one, that's for sure :
Phazon Mines escape without space jump (OoB strat)
Phazon Mines escape without space jump (OoB strat)
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
I think it's safe to say that there is no way we will find a way to dash directly to the missile under bridge. The shape of the bridge plus the height of the ledge with the missile is just too inconvenient. The only way I could imagine getting that is by using a enemy to your advantage somehow. (Jumping onto a War Wasp that you've lured under the bridge and damage boosting upwards off of it? Getting a Beetle to push you up the halfpipe?)
I feel like the other missile in Main Plaza has some potential with using a War Wasp too. I don't know if there's a way to make the game consider those to be "ground" but if you could jump onto one and then jump off it, you could surely get to that missile. There's also a slight possibly of dashing off something to reach that missile without the aid of an enemy, I've tried dashing from all around the room, and it feels really close.
The idea of getting the one in Ruined Nursery is an interesting one, I'm not sure if the missiles' hitbox is large enough to be collected without morph ball, but if it is, that's something that should be looked into.
I feel like the other missile in Main Plaza has some potential with using a War Wasp too. I don't know if there's a way to make the game consider those to be "ground" but if you could jump onto one and then jump off it, you could surely get to that missile. There's also a slight possibly of dashing off something to reach that missile without the aid of an enemy, I've tried dashing from all around the room, and it feels really close.
The idea of getting the one in Ruined Nursery is an interesting one, I'm not sure if the missiles' hitbox is large enough to be collected without morph ball, but if it is, that's something that should be looked into.