Whats your time?

2011-09-22 08:07:29 pm

Oh I'm pretty sure 0:58 is possible. There was one other mistake in that run too actually but I can't remember what it was, but it was also fairly severe.

carlmmii

2011-09-22 09:34:45 pm

Just realized that the skip-ruins-3-missile-refill was only for the segmented 100% run I was planning on doing. Whoops... oh well.

Behemoth

2011-09-22 10:44:23 pm

hehe, the thought did start to occur to me.

I wondered. What is the fastest place to get Ice beam ?. I just re-watched the any% TAS by cardboard and he gets it in ruins 4 and then simply exits where he came and continues the ruins. It looks to be the fastest out of all the three places you can get it. I usually get it at the end before the queen but it has a tendency to feel just a tad too long.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2011-09-23 05:26:26 am

2011-09-23 05:26:05 am

I normally waited until the last ice beam as well since it was right there, but after seeing that TAS you posted here I tried switching to the one in Ruins 4 as well. I'd say that horizontal speed is faster than vertical speed overall so it would make sense to me that the last one would be longer than the other two even if it is right there on my path since I always hit the dual recharge before heading to the queen.

Behemoth

2011-09-28 08:28:10 pm

Well I've just gone and bought a gameboy player, because it seems the increased speed of the super game boy was making the button mashing strategy against the Zeta metroids not work properly and the Zetas were shooting through back at me. I think the game wanted me to mash super quick because of the added speed, which I couldn't feasibly do. where as I was doing it effortlessly on my gameboy advance SP with no Zetas countering my mashing.

I'm itching to start running again ! I've got some nice Strategies against the Omegas which will shed some more time off.

Behemoth

2011-10-05 07:28:57 am

Last night I got a 57 in a SS !. I was expecting a 58 or 59 based on some fuck ups but man, this surprised me. Just a couple of things to report mistakes wise: the western most Zeta escaped my missile trap, the bastard ! so the last 5 or 6 shots were done in a regular fashion of me trying to jump to shoot the damn thing, getting hit in the process, slowing things down etc. Probably lost about 8 seconds here. Later on One of my Omega strategies failed slightly, extending the fight by probably a further 10 seconds. Moving on past the egg and the very first metroid hatchling grabbed me so I had to turn back and exit the area to get him off me. Lastly my Queen battle was sub par. I can attest to this boss being an unfair bitch, especially when your doing good. She refused to open her mouth on about 3 turns, and I was starting to worry about my health and whether I'd last out.

These were the main issues with the run. There's still a couple of areas that need to go through some practice, namely spider throwing areas, so I don't get hit.

I wondered... What's the fastest place to trigger the Omega spawn after the Alpha. After killing the Alpha is it quicker to go left and down, and then back up. Or exit on the right and down, left passed those sheilded enemies and back up the same way. I noticed in the SDA run it appears carlmii takes the right side way in order to stock up on health from the sheilded enemies. But I don't need to do this in my run (granted health gets a little tight later on).

I do believe 0:56 is possible, although it will now be exceptionally hard.

Last night I got a 57 in a SS !. I was expecting a 58 or 59 based on some fuck ups but man, this surprised me. Just a couple of things to report mistakes wise: the western most Zeta escaped my missile trap, the bastard ! so the last 5 or 6 shots were done in a regular fashion of me trying to jump to shoot the damn thing, getting hit in the process, slowing things down etc. Probably lost about 8 seconds here. Later on One of my Omega strategies failed slightly, extending the fight by probably a further 10 seconds. Moving on past the egg and the very first metroid hatchling grabbed me so I had to turn back and exit the area to get him off me. Lastly my Queen battle was sub par. I can attest to this boss being an unfair bitch, especially when your doing good. She refused to open her mouth on about 3 turns, and I was starting to worry about my health and whether I'd last out.

These were the main issues with the run. There's still a couple of areas that need to go through some practice, namely spider throwing areas, so I don't get hit.

I wondered... What's the fastest place to trigger the Omega spawn after the Alpha. After killing the Alpha is it quicker to go left and down, and then back up. Or exit on the right and down, left passed those sheilded enemies and back up the same way. I noticed in the SDA run it appears carlmii takes the right side way in order to stock up on health from the sheilded enemies. But I don't need to do this in my run (granted health gets a little tight later on).

I do believe 0:56 is possible, although it will now be exceptionally hard.

carlmmii

2011-10-12 09:57:43 pm

The right path is quicker -- that's the reason I do it, not for the health. It's a straighter shot and has the spider ball benefit.

Behemoth

2011-10-14 02:05:12 pm

hmm... I see. then again you can spider throw left after killing the alpha but I guess the gains are smaller since it's all nearly flat ground anyway with just a few holes where running could be nearly as fast. But yeah the sheilded enemies room is very good to go spider throw through it.

Guess I should get stuck into it again. I got a strat against the upper left alpha in ruins two which I really want to be successful in my run, since this alpha tends to be a very awry, extended battle otherwise due to the awkward room design and the alphas placement.

carlmmii

2011-10-17 05:28:28 pm

Interested to see how you do it. I usually just give him the pre-missile, then stay under him for the next 4, trying to bring him over to the right for the exit.

Behemoth

2011-10-18 07:05:55 am

I spider throw myself from the right onto the ledge underneath the alpha, un morph as I land and run to the left next to the second ledge. Wait for the Alpha to descend at an angle, just before it's about to touch you run to the right and turn around and shoot a missile and the Alpha will get shot into the hole between the ledge your standing on and the next ledge. It doesn't always work mind as the Alpha has to do a downward knock back to get stuck in there (although I believe hitting alphas and gammas in the right spots guarantees the direction you want them to go). The Alpha gets completely stuck in the best scenario and gives you a very quick kill. It probably only saves 2 - 3 seconds on average compared to standard killing though.

Behemoth

2011-10-18 09:13:35 pm

Well I just did a savestate only run. I didn't record it unfortunately, had issues with the movie playback which wasn't deleting my mistakes. My time was 0:53 with what I consider to be as tightly optimized as I can get it. Some of the bosses were perhaps too lucky for console conditions to replicate, but nonetheless the setups are still there and the outcome still possible. I made no "mistakes" in the run at all. I may have made the Queen too good though. I made sure each round she opened her mouth. But that has happened to me before on console.

So I think if I can give myself 2 or 3 minutes room for error on console then I should be looking at a 55 or 56. Although 56 is the next target in mind. So I'd say my real time target would be a 57, or thereabouts.

carlmmii

2011-10-18 09:16:05 pm

Is that game-time or real-time? Either way, that's awesome, and we need a new record. :)

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-10-19 01:01:15 pm

Behemoth: 2011-10-19 01:00:55 pm

2011-10-19 01:00:16 pm

Yeah I'm looking to try and get a 56 or 55 for in-game time display at the end. Which would probably equal to around a 57/58 real-time ?.

This game is a lot different to Super Metroid (the other game I run) in that the limit for times seems to be pretty clear. For instance I can't possibly see a sub 50 real-time run on console being doable. Where as Super we all come to "conclusions" about human limit but they get smashed year after year because new tricks and strategies get found all the time as well as better skills from players. This is due to Samus in Metroid 2 having simpler mechanics, because it's an old game, and so many rooms are repeated. There's not much to really "find out". The only thing that can be improved is Gamma boss battles. Since Alphas all nearly take the same time to kill, Zeta's all can be killed with the trap method and omegas take the same too with some strategies to get level with them and shoot all 14 into their backs in one round. Gammas are the variable but still they can be cornered with clever positioning and timed missile shots to get them stuck in ruts and alcoves.

Yeah I'm looking to try and get a 56 or 55 for in-game time display at the end. Which would probably equal to around a 57/58 real-time ?.

This game is a lot different to Super Metroid (the other game I run) in that the limit for times seems to be pretty clear. For instance I can't possibly see a sub 50 real-time run on console being doable. Where as Super we all come to "conclusions" about human limit but they get smashed year after year because new tricks and strategies get found all the time as well as better skills from players. This is due to Samus in Metroid 2 having simpler mechanics, because it's an old game, and so many rooms are repeated. There's not much to really "find out". The only thing that can be improved is Gamma boss battles. Since Alphas all nearly take the same time to kill, Zeta's all can be killed with the trap method and omegas take the same too with some strategies to get level with them and shoot all 14 into their backs in one round. Gammas are the variable but still they can be cornered with clever positioning and timed missile shots to get them stuck in ruts and alcoves.

Prime Hunter

2011-10-19 05:01:47 pm

Doesn't hurt that you go to almost every corner of SR388 with no real ways to change up your route along the way because of the linear nature of the game. There are only so many options you have in the end, and at this point it would be nearly impossible to find anything that is faster or more streamlined than what has been found. And you can't even skip any of it either since we need to take down every Metroid simply due to the way the game was built.

Still, finding better strategies against enemies and getting your skills perfected along the way can go far to making runs better even without all of that stuff, so congrats on making that effort to get this good at ROS. In a way, the fact that there isn't a lot of room to maneuver and you can STILL get your times that low is quite an achievement in itself if you ask me.

Behemoth

2011-10-19 06:37:29 pm

Trust me to overlook the basic principle of the game which makes it the hard game to break even further !

And thanks, it will still be a while before any run is done and recorded. I still gotta practice those tricks against bosses I found in my savestate run

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-10-20 03:22:41 pm

Behemoth: 2011-10-20 03:22:07 pm

2011-10-20 03:20:42 pm

I read all the speed run topic the other day. If I read this part correctly and presuming you were talking about any% carlmii you said that you would skip the 3 missiles stashed to the left of the spider ball in ruins 1. This seems like an awful lot of missiles to skip, however it would save a shit load of time, especially real time. But can you really see the run through to the end with such little missiles, or do you make up for them later by picking up packs later ?

Also something of interest that I'm considering. In ruins 4 I think I'll just go round clockwise even though it's some seconds slower. The reason why is because of where the missile stocker is placed. If you go clockwise you've taken care of 4 out of 6 metroids. So two left, when they're dead you still have loads of missiles left to comfortably see the game through. If you go anticlockwise, you stock up too early and have to kill 4 metroids, leaving you with only just enough (or usually not enough) to kill the rest of the metroids on the planet; and because of this problem I've had to pick up the two missile packs when traversing ruins 4 (the one beneath the upper right gamma and the one in the water under the metroid shell). So If I go clockwise, not only do I end up with more missiles to complete the game easily, but I don't have to pick up either of these two missile packs. So it'll make my run faster in the long run for not picking them up and wasting real time collecting them.

I read all the speed run topic the other day. If I read this part correctly and presuming you were talking about any% carlmii you said that you would skip the 3 missiles stashed to the left of the spider ball in ruins 1. This seems like an awful lot of missiles to skip, however it would save a shit load of time, especially real time. But can you really see the run through to the end with such little missiles, or do you make up for them later by picking up packs later ?

Also something of interest that I'm considering. In ruins 4 I think I'll just go round clockwise even though it's some seconds slower. The reason why is because of where the missile stocker is placed. If you go clockwise you've taken care of 4 out of 6 metroids. So two left, when they're dead you still have loads of missiles left to comfortably see the game through. If you go anticlockwise, you stock up too early and have to kill 4 metroids, leaving you with only just enough (or usually not enough) to kill the rest of the metroids on the planet; and because of this problem I've had to pick up the two missile packs when traversing ruins 4 (the one beneath the upper right gamma and the one in the water under the metroid shell). So If I go clockwise, not only do I end up with more missiles to complete the game easily, but I don't have to pick up either of these two missile packs. So it'll make my run faster in the long run for not picking them up and wasting real time collecting them.

Prime Hunter

2011-10-20 03:48:56 pm

You're probably a lot more comfortable with the game than I am, but I'd go counter clockwise to get the energy and missile recharges early to make sure I didn't die along the way through Ruins 4 and the Zetas. This would force me to hit them again on the way out though to be sure I could make it through the Omegas and all the way to the final recharge before the Queen's lair, which obviously adds a minute or two just from doing that.

This was before finding out that trick with the Zetas as well, so I'd assume if you can pull that off fast enough against them without taking much damage or losing too much ammo, in the long run going clockwise is probably the best bet. Doesn't hurt that I was leaning more towards caution when I last played either.

In the end you're probably right in that going clockwise is faster for your strategies and skills.

Behemoth

2011-10-20 04:11:37 pm

Yeah the health aspect isn't taken into consideration because the Zeta's and gammas there don't pose a threat. well not on a record attempt they won't be at least. It's just about the missile problem. Due to me collecting so few througout the game (120 in total by that point), and finishing up ruins 4 anticlockwise leaves me with about 50 on average. You need an absolute minimum of 61 to continue the run at that point, so that's why I collect the two missile packs in ruins 4 which bring me up to an average 70 to comfortably complete the game. Yeah I think clockwise will prevail in the end. Also I believe when I tested both routes I didn't do clockwise as well as it could have been done. I'll test them again soon !

carlmmii

2011-10-23 04:19:35 pm

Quote from Behemoth:

I read all the speed run topic the other day. If I read this part correctly and presuming you were talking about any% carlmii you said that you would skip the 3 missiles stashed to the left of the spider ball in ruins 1.

That was based on previous route strategy. I don't know how it would work with a counter-clockwise ruins 2, but I think for safety sake getting the 2 missile packs left of the spider ball would be beneficial.

I'd have to actually sit down and plan an any% route again.

Behemoth

2011-10-24 02:40:34 pm

Based on a just a few test runs I did, skipping just one missile pack left of spider ball makes finishing ruins 2 rather difficult. At least it is with my strategy and the missile packs do and don't collect elsewhere. Also for ruins 3, restocking first and clearing the rest of ruins 3 is a little troublesome. But not quite as hard as the aforementioned problem. After this I think ruins 4 is perfectly doable, at least clockwise it'll be ok. But really I can't see skipping all the missile packs left of spider ball being a reasonable strategy, as you'd need to definitely pick up other packs to make up for it, or do some serious missile drop manipulation.

Behemoth

2011-10-26 05:47:22 pm

Well I re-done some tests of clockwise vs anticlockwise in ruins 4. Optimizing clockwise more by doing some damage boosts upward in the big left hand shaft, while also improving anticlockwise a little too. I now say the difference between the two routes is about 4 or 5 seconds on average, give or take some errors here and there. Which means for sure that even though anticlockwise is faster, I nearly always had to collect those two missile packs, but with clockwise I don't. I done a little counting in my head of how long it takes to collect those two packs: 11 seconds for the one under metroid shell, 6 seconds for the one at the spikes in the upper right corner, average total for them about 17 seconds; Subtract the 5 or so seconds from the slower clockwise route and it still wins by about 12 seconds.

Behemoth

2011-10-30 03:26:15 pm

yay ! 0:56 in-game time in SS. Only two major fuck ups in this run. The first was in ruins 4, the zeta guarding the screw attack gave me problems as I was trying to get back to the entrance tunnel over the metroid shell. He just hovered there and I kept taking damage from him. Probably lost about 10 seconds there. Due to the health loss I very nearly died on the upper right gamma, with just one more hit left for me to die.

Next mess up was pretty severe. In the huge room near the end with the septogs. I fell right from the top to the bottom !!! about 20 seconds lost here. Apart from these two things my run is pretty much optimized as good as I can get it. I'd absolutely love to get 0:55 and I would consider that my limit, but I don't know if I can reach that at this point. Fingers crossed.

Prime Hunter

2011-10-30 04:38:07 pm

Go for it, man! I'd love to see a run of this now that we've been talking about it for a few months and it's gotten me invested in seeing how well people can push this one. ROS doesn't get as much time in the spotlight as most of the other Metroid games and it's about time it does so.

Behemoth

2011-10-30 07:45:47 pm

I will start recording very soon. Problem at the moment is my dvd recorder gives the recordings mono color, and I have no idea why. My gameboy player is displaying it in color. Exo from SDA said it was most likely to do with the dvd recorder being set in PAL region and the gameboy player is set to 60 Hz. However I changed it to NTSC but it still recorded in black and white. Furthermore I tried recording to the dvd recorders hard drive instead of a disc, and magically it was in color, which would suggest the discs are at fault. Exo said he always records to hard drive and then burns the content to a disc for SDA. As far as I'm aware through checking it out, my shitty recorder doesn't have that functionality, so I'm a little bit screwed for the time being. I was thinking about getting another recorder, and I'll ask at the shop which ones can do some burning.

Behemoth

2011-10-31 07:14:25 pm

I don't believe it. I just got 0:55 on my next attempt and it seemed like I made a slew of small mistakes all across the run and guess what ? I fell in that fucking giant septog room near the end again !!!. ahh stupid unmorph doesn't always work I swear. Basically after recharging health and missiles at the very top right room I jump down onto the septog and spider throw left, press A to get out of spider ball, unmorph and jump onto the next septog. It's a little bit faster than space jumping. Well anyway Samus sometimes refuses to unmorph in the air. So annoying.

Well this just has to be a very high 0:55 so I don't know about 0:54. But I wouldn't put it past me considering how it seems to be getting lower all the time without much fuss.