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Ok, I think I'm done with ROS for a while. I'm quite proud of this last run, especially after I managed to get through on my first try tonight after all of the pain I went through yesterday. (Queen was still giving me more trouble than normal, but this time I had snagged the Screw Attack specifically for her)

01:15, SS

There were a few slip ups, such as forgetting to hit the energy recharge in Ruins 3 before diving into the acid for the SB which meant I wasted a good minute or so going back to that room to get it, but I don't think I could improve much on this time given my skill level with the game. Or at least, not without a lot of torment that I don't feel like putting myself through.
It really is a tough ol game to run for sure. At least running it to that level where we only want to accept a few mistakes and do most things cleanly. Good time anyway, that's pretty impressive. I haven't started running this game again. Instead I'm going through it slowly with saves and seeing what I can do to optimize it. Right now I'm happy with how ruins 1 and 2 are, so now ruins 3 is being optimized. I having a hard time keeping my health and missiles high enough for the Acid sequence break though d'oh!
Edit history:
Prime Hunter: 2011-09-12 06:35:51 pm
Prime Hunter: 2011-09-12 06:32:39 pm
Missiles aren't usually a problem for me when I get there since I acquire enough expansions to have at least 5 before getting to that Alpha next to the energy recharge after the acid, meaning I can either take on the Gamma next to the missile recharge immediately or recharge and then take it down, hitting the recharge again on the way out. I tend to hit the missile recharge in ruins 3 going in and out of the top area so that I have plenty for the Gammas down below, which is also where I grab that energy recharge I forgot about on my way to the final two Gammas and the acid skip. (Heh, how many times did I just say recharge in that?)

But yeah, with the way I've run speed runs for Metroid in the past where I just blindly rush through with next to no preparation in the span of a few hours real time, my runs end up being quite fast and often sloppy at times, at least compared to what I hear from others who speed run. It works for me though since I have no illusions of being able to come close to the absolute best at any of these games, since that requires a ton of study and optimization that I'm not going to torture myself with. Especially since the best runs will use things like Scan Dashes and Spider Throws as standard movement methods.

Anyway, thanks again. Seeing as my ROS record that had stood for almost 6 years was absolutely demolished once I started taking my runs and the game seriously, it feels pretty good to be able to see all of that frustration and practice pay off in the end.
I recharge missiles going into ruins 3 but not on the way out, which is probably why I struggled with missiles at the sequence break. But I've found it's ok now if I'm careful with my missile shots and try not to waste too many, and also keep my health healthy (lol) throughout ruins 3.

To be honest ruins 3, 4 and 5 didn't prove to be too bothersome. The spider throwing technique comes in very useful in ruins 5 to hop over all the pillars going to the omegas, but it can be tricky and you can stick to the ceiling, so you have to do tap jumps. I think in total my spider throwing drops my time by as much as a minute. Due to me collecting quite a minimal amount of missiles in my run I don't have enough to take on the omegas casually. So I have to manipulate them to face their back to me (not as hard as it sounds) and get a few back shots in, then repeat. The fights are probably only a bit longer than a normal fight but I think I'm saving time compared to collecting all the missiles that I've skipped.

Compared to Super and I'm Guessing Prime, this is a lot simpler to run than those but I agree it is still very tricky game to run properly. But Samus having less glitch moves and simpler mechanics makes the speed run more focused on just having the best route and great boss battles.

Anyway earlier I got SS 1:06 to my surprise even with a fairly sloppy run. So I did another and got my target time 1:05, but I still wasn't full satisfied with it. I think I may take this a little further and aim for a sub 1:04. Time to watch the SDA 59.
I couldn't believe it, last night I got 1:01 in a SS. It was a very good run, but that pesky Gamma in the top right of ruins 4 (the one that gives most people grief) gave me the largest amount of bullshit I've suffered in a speed run for a long time. Must have lost about 30 seconds on him alone. I also had to be safe and go out my way to recharge missiles before doing a zeta, which usually I'd do the Zeta first and then recharge. There was another similar scenario elsewhere in ruins 3. My queen battle wasn't that great. stupid bitch not opening her mouth enough. I know for a fact I can get 1:00.

I read the submission text by carlmii and he said when he was doing SS runs he was getting 1:01 as well. I think thought that he was timing himself using a real-time clock, so in actual fact his in-game time probably said something like 0:59, but I'm not too sure. In any event I've ordered a snes pad off Amazon (because my ones are buggered) so I can do some recording for this category. I already have the Super Game Boy cartridge so that's sorted.
That's a pretty amazing time you've got there. That Gamma is the one in the sand room, right? Yeah, other than the first two you find in ruins 2 when I'm not as stocked up on health as later on he's probably the one that I have the most trouble with simply because of the room's design. I hate those sand rooms, especially if there's not enough time to make space for the battle before they evolve and come flying at you, which is typically the case.

But the point is, you're only off by two minutes from the SS record if I read everything correctly. Go for it!
LOL I probably wasn't that clear. It's the Gamma in the very top of the ruins. The fight takes place on little platforms in a sort of circular room with a hidden energy refill on the left in the wall. But yeah the sand room one is a pain as well.

I'm actually about 2 minutes off from the segmented record and I'm certain I can improve my time by about 1 - 2 minutes if I do nearly everything how I want to and cleanly. So I could match the time on SDA or beat it, but that might be pushing things a little at this point.
Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!
Quote from Behemoth:
I could match the time on SDA or beat it, but that might be pushing things a little at this point.
Quote:
* Quietus prepares to be Behemoth's conscience once again, and talk about his 'destiny'. Cool
aiwebs_004
lol. It will be helpful aiwebs_004. I just got to get word from SDA about whether using PAL snes and super game boy is ok. Since the Super game boy speeds the game up a little. Usually they would speed their timing method up to compensate, but since I'm on PAL console, it could be different apparantly. If it's all a pain for them I'll just invest in a gameboy player for gamecube. I have the leads to use my SP on it anyway.
Quote from Behemoth:
LOL I probably wasn't that clear. It's the Gamma in the very top of the ruins. The fight takes place on little platforms in a sort of circular room with a hidden energy refill on the left in the wall. But yeah the sand room one is a pain as well.

Oh... THAT one. How the heck did I forget about THAT one. I'd say it gives me more trouble than any other Gamma in the game simply because most of the time I'm low on health when I get up there (partly due to deliberately damage boosting up those spikes to get to it) and if I screw up my positioning the Gamma knocks me back down or gets me caught against the wall or something equally stupid. I've gotten lucky in being able to get onto a small ledge that is carved into the wall and blast it with missiles as it gets caught between some of the platforms on its way over to me, but more often than not I've got a 50/50 chance of doing that or getting absolutely destroyed by it.

I hate that room so much.
Edit history:
carlmmii: 2011-09-19 10:51:26 pm
carlmmii: 2011-09-19 10:51:03 pm
carlmmii: 2011-09-19 10:49:07 pm
carlmmii: 2011-09-19 10:48:51 pm
carlmmii: 2011-09-19 10:48:38 pm
GO GO GO! About time my run got beaten. Very Happy

Just FYI, the final in-game time was 0:56, so there's probably still a bit to cut off yours before it's in the sub-hour zone.


If you have any questions regarding route planning, ask away. I've had a route planned for a few years now, but never had the ability to get back to actually doing a run, so if you're getting this kind of time without the route/plan I've got in mind, then I think you'd be able to easily beat my time.

Main time savers: ruins 2 over-the-top first, and skipping the missile refill in ruins 3 entirely.


Also, as far as the super gameboy issue, listen to the "samus spawn" music in the SDA vid and compare the sound to what's coming out of your speakers when you start. If it sounds the same, then your time is true time. If yours has a higher pitch, then your game is running slightly faster than it should, and would need to be compensated.
Edit history:
Behemoth: 2011-09-20 10:10:31 am
Wow, nice to see you here carlmii !. Yeah I remember your in game time of 0:56, but I was wondering if some of your saves knocked that time down a bit. Lets say your exact same run on SDA is a single segment run; Would it have been something like 0:58 in game time instead of 0:56 ?

Anyway about route. Yes after watching some TAS's by cardboard I take the "over the top first" route through ruins 2 to get spring ball first. I was practicing it last night and I can get up there real quick using damage boosts from the very first spiky floaty creature next to the small column, instead of spider balling on the left part of the wall. Once I'm on that bit, it's spider ball up to the hidden passage to get the missiles, come out and damage boost my way up to the top, jumping over/damage boosting up and over the blob thrower down into the spider guardian's lair. I was practicing him last night and I can happily say I can now kill him in just two sets of bomb laying, the way it should be done. I was also practicing ruins 3 last night too and I've got some cool tricks and possibly faster gamma battles there exploiting the terrain to get them stuck.

Also, forgive me bluntness. How the hell do you continue ruins 3 without a recharging at least once ? I always get to ruins 3 with very low missiles and simply can't continue the area unless I do it.

I'm considering skipping the energy tank in ruins 4, the one in the pitch black room sitting underneath the metroid shell. i think I might be able to hold it out till the gamma in the top right and refill up there after the fight. This would leave me with 3 ET's in total which is fine because Omega's later on don't give me trouble.

I'll try the super game boy thing. I take it yours was played on NTSC SNES using super game boy ?

Anyway thanks for showing interest. There's still some more places that give me issues, namely rooms where I want to spider throw across multiple gaps but enemies keep hitting me and slowing my progress. Should all be sorted soon though when I find a method for getting across by jumping in the right areas.
Edit history:
Prime Hunter: 2011-09-20 11:15:49 am
Quote from Behemoth:
Also, forgive me bluntness. How the hell do you continue ruins 3 without a recharging at least once ? I always get to ruins 3 with very low missiles and simply can't continue the area unless I do it.

I'm considering skipping the energy tank in ruins 4, the one in the pitch black room sitting underneath the metroid shell. i think I might be able to hold it out till the gamma in the top right and refill up there after the fight. This would leave me with 3 ET's in total which is fine because Omega's later on don't give me trouble.

Yeah, I'd like to know that about Ruins 3 as well. I guess I just use a ton more missiles than most people since I tend to recharge going both in and out of the top area in Ruins 3 so that I have a full supply going from there to the bottom of Ruins 3 and all the way to the recharge next to the Gamma in the acid skip section. (How many missiles do you usually have by then, just to be curious? I think I usually have 90 or 100 when I first get to Ruins 3) Granted, my SS experience is solely with ROS right now, so it's quite limited, but I tended to play on the safe side when I was making my attempts.

Which is also why I'd always make sure to grab that E-Tank in Ruins 4 as well. It doesn't take too long for me to go snag it, and again, having a little extra health makes me feel a bit safer knowing that I have that extra buffer against the Omegas and Queen. My route I used for my 1:15 ended up damage boosting up the spikes as soon as I got to Ruins 4, getting that Gamma and the energy recharge, falling back down to that Zeta, and then going up to the missile recharge and sweeping around the ruins from top right to bottom left. So me getting that e-tank was purely for later and not as a source of recharging my energy.

Speaking of which, do you start out in the bottom left with the Zeta and go up from there in a clockwise path? The fact that you're skipping the e-tank and then going for the recharge suggests that to me. It's probably faster overall to go that way first, isn't it, rather than the path I just mentioned?


Man, here I was thinking I was done with ROS for a while, but now that we're talking about your progress and the "new" trick for Zetas I'm suddenly getting the itch to play again.
Edit history:
Behemoth: 2011-09-20 11:51:01 am
Lol when I first get to ruins 3 I have very low amount. Something like 20, or 30 if I'm lucky. So  I recharge as soon as I get to the first top part which fills me up to 120. From there it's just play it real safe throughout the rest of ruins 3 and the acid SB. In fact by the time I get to that alpha at the SB I've pretty run dry of missiles. So when I go to the Gamma I have to recharge missiles in his room (rather convenient) before starting the battle. From there till the rest of the game missiles are no worries anymore.

Yeah the ET in ruins 4 doesn't take much time but considering SDA is timing by real-time It will save quite some time since there's the room transitions to worry about, and honestly I think I can make it through ruins 4 and even 5 without it.

Yes I go through ruins 4 clockwise. But now that you mention going anticlockwise, I'm wondering if it's quicker, since you can damage boost yourself up to the top; Where as if you go clockwise you have to go really slow space jumping (or using platforms) on the left side of the ruins when going up, which takes ages. Looking at it logically, you might be onto something with your route there. I'll do some tests on this and see what "feels" faster. I'd like to know what carlmii thinks of this route too. If anything I'll take the Zeta first in the sand room, then go up to the gamma, recharge health, drop down a little, space jump left, recharge missiles, go up to the central Zeta, kill him, exit and go up to the gamma, go left and down to the furthest left gamma and Zeta and then exit the ruins.
I done some tests of the route through ruins 4: anticlockwise vs clockwise. Surprisingly (and I'm somehow happy about this) anticlockwise is faster by on average 10 seconds. If you damage boost well of course. What I believe makes it faster is that when you kill the upermost central gamma you can come out and spider throw yourself left over the energy tank sitting underneath the metroid shell and beyond, then fast descending down the huge chasm to the left most gamma and Zeta, the come out and down to the exit of the ruins.

I'm happy about it because I simply hate climbing that huge chasm on the left, and can now just fall right through it
Edit history:
Prime Hunter: 2011-09-20 09:13:21 pm
Good to know my path may have some merit behind using it. I mostly did things that way because I felt I needed the energy recharge earlier rather than later, and since on my way out I ended up damage boosting back up to that spot for both recharges before heading off towards the Omegas I was wondering if I was spending too much time with that path.

But yeah, I guess I didn't clarify that well. The 90-100 missiles is my TOTAL when I first get to that recharge in Ruins 3, not what I currently have when I arrive, which is always pretty low. Which means judging from what you say you're grabbing more missile tanks earlier than I am. How many do you usually finish the game with? I tend to have 140-150 by the end, which is just enough for me to get through the Omegas using their weak spot for a good portion of my hits against them.
Edit history:
Behemoth: 2011-09-20 09:19:00 pm
Yeah it's a cool route and honestly I wouldn't have thought of it if you didn't bring it up. Cheers !

Yeah I usually finish the game with about 140 - 150 missiles too. So it seems you get less early on, but get more later, but I'm the other way round, hehe

I think the route for the other ruins are all set now as they are all a bit more linear with clear paths, so no need to test anything with those.
Edit history:
Prime Hunter: 2011-09-20 09:29:01 pm
Now I'm trying to figure out which one of us is gathering missiles the more optimal way as far as time goes. I'd lean towards yours seeing as your overall time is better, but it's hard to compare times that way since you do all of those Spider Throws and other speed tricks that I probably don't.

Edit: I usually grab the 1 tank under the Bombs, at least 2 of the 3 after the 1st e-tank (all 3 if I can quickly damage boost through that tile to get up to it), the 2 on the way back through Ruins 1 from Spider, 1 leading to Varia, 1 in the wall with the e-tank in Ruins 3, the 1 in the sand box next to the save point in Ruins 3, the 1 in the box on the way to the Alpha and the e-tank, the 1 below that Gamma and energy recharge in Ruins 4, and sometimes the one under the lake at the Ruins 4 entrance.
I really couldn't say either who's doing what better, as far as missiles are concerned. There's probably not a lot in it really. Spider throwing is definitely worth mastering, but it does take time to get to grips with it and is very easy to mess up and waste time as a result. It unfortunately requires you to practice it in every area that you use it, to see what kind of height requirement you need to give each jump, and stuff.
About time in the 59:49 run -- based on the SS runs I did, I would wager that in-game time was actually 0:57 once you add the lost time from save truncation. SS still cuts out a lot of time due to loading transitions and stuff.

About skipping the missile recharge in ruins 3 -- has to be done in a multi-segment run, unless you're really lucky with missile drops. I worked it out a few years ago with the enemies that give the drops along the way, and the probability is actually pretty good for hitting the missile "check points" (minimum missile counts at certain points in the route to make sure you have enough to continue). I had it all worked out a few years back, and you'd be able to make it all the way to the sequence break area for the recharge. This also assumed that alphas would take exactly 5 missiles each, and gammas would take up to 15 missiles each.

About my recording -- no. NTSC GameCube with gameboy player. Radix' old record was recorded using a super game boy, which is how I noticed the sound thing, and eventually had the speed difference confirmed.

About clockwise/counterclockwise for ruins 4 -- yes, counterclockwise is faster. But, clockwise allows you to save first.
I see. 0:57 is a great time, I'll try my best to get as close to that in a SS.

I guess I'll be recharging missiles in ruins 3 then. Sounds awfully risky for a SS.

Quote from carlmmii:
About my recording -- no. NTSC GameCube with gameboy player. Radix' old record was recorded using a super game boy, which is how I noticed the sound thing, and eventually had the speed difference confirmed.

I see. Well I did a little test and although I couldn't tell if my music was more high pitched on the part where you said. I did notice that the music on my super game boy was slightly faster and going ahead and away from your music. So I guess my super game boy runs faster, probably the same speed as NTSC super game boy. Strange though because I even raced your run, (only to the very first Alpha) and we appear to be about the same speed. Unless the speed difference is so miniscule that you can't really see it when running, but music would reveal it. It just seemed like we were level. But anyway, as long as the team at SDA can identify the speed difference if I submit something then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Quote from carlmmii:
About clockwise/counterclockwise for ruins 4 -- yes, counterclockwise is faster. But, clockwise allows you to save first.

It's cool you found this out too. Of course I won't be saving though so that's ok.
Btw, there is no single-segment any% run recorded on sda, so technically if you recorded that run, you'd have the record. Razz
Yeah I know but I still want to make it a really good run and perhaps equal to your segmented run.

I noticed the colors for the game on your run that the Game boy player gives it are really good and appropriate. On my Super game boy I can't have the same colors as that, But the best I can do is a kind of blue background with a right color Samus (yellow, red when she gets varia) and everything else looks pretty good. If people complain that the game looks a bit strange, then I'll just say they haven't seen the other abysmal colors the Super game boy offers. They are horrendous. 
I just got a new personal best 0:59. I'm really pleased with this as it was a good run. But something shit happened right near the end. The bit after ruins 5 where you have to cross lots of small or large pools of water and some of them have hidden traps about half way through. I fell down one of them, and to top it off it was the top floor with the set of pools, which sent me down to the very bottom floor with the small pools. Must have lost about 30 - 40 seconds real time. It's gonna be really hard to get 0:58 now and margin for error is now tiny. Perhaps it might be time to start recording Think
Go! Go! Go!

You can do it! hehehe...

Can't you do a test on emulator to see if 58 it's possible or not? See how many seconds you can loose before the clock jump to 59 min.