MP3 is no longer a Wii Launch Title! *dances*

2006-05-13 06:31:15 am

Well, the Gravity Suit still reduced the amount of damage you take, too. And I definitely seem to remember skipping around underwater far more in Phendrana than anywhere in Echoes. And again, I think I only used the Echo visor, like, five times. Thermal at least worked as a night vision substitute, and was designed to find those pesky cloaked pirates as well.

Comparing the Echo visor and the X-Ray visor would be more fair. But the X-Ray visor was simply cool as hell... That's why it's returning!

[edit] I'm not one of those who say call those items "useless" by the way. The only item I found really useless was the... grab... thing... in the beginning of Zero Mission. THAT was a filler item. [/edit]

Andrew Mills

2006-05-13 09:15:32 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Radix:

Dont belive anything you hear from Retro management, they're a bunch of liars.
Remember that the Japanese version of echoes was going to "be identical" to the american version. It wasn't.
I won't be buying this game.

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I never said I got my information from Retro's management. I've had a few sources state that it's a combination of both parties who have instigated the changes we've all seen. Sequence Breaking is one thing, glitch exposure and abuse is another (the two just usually happen to go hand-in-hand).

As far as MP2 is concerned though, I personally believe that the discoveries were taken more personally by Retro and the tricks we all found, were the ones that just so happened to be altered in the Japanese version (and we've only got ourselves to blame for that as we've been rather public in our views on the alterations made and our finger pointing just at Retro).

Bottom line is though, is that Nintendo and Retro don't like "buggy" software and will take all opportunities given to rectify those that are viable to do so.

[quote="Radix"]Dont belive anything you hear from Retro management, they're a bunch of liars.
Remember that the Japanese version of echoes was going to "be identical" to the american version. It wasn't.
I won't be buying this game.[/quote]
I don't know if that was directed at me, but I never said I got my information from Retro's management. I've had a few sources state that it's a combination of both parties who have instigated the changes we've all seen. Sequence Breaking is one thing, glitch exposure and abuse is another (the two just usually happen to go hand-in-hand).

As far as MP2 is concerned though, I personally believe that the discoveries were taken more personally by Retro and the tricks we all found, were the ones that just so happened to be altered in the Japanese version (and we've only got ourselves to blame for that as we've been rather public in our views on the alterations made and our finger pointing just at Retro).

Bottom line is though, is that Nintendo and Retro don't like "buggy" software and will take all opportunities given to rectify those that are viable to do so.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-13 09:44:49 am

Quote from nate:

please refrain from talking out of your ass.

Well, now, that's not very nice. It just seems like Nintendo is opposed to SBing. They gave us a deliberately SBable game, which was not a good idea. Yes, there have been sequence breaks in Zero Mission that weren't intentional, but most were made by Nintendo.

I'm sorry if I acted like an idiot. Embarassed

SkippyJr

2006-05-13 01:56:21 pm

The first victim of SB killing on the Wii has been announced: TSA's clawhook shortcut on the Twilight Princess demo. If they would go to the trouble of "fixing" a demo on its last day on display of all things, then we surely will be targeted as well. (Yikes, I completely forgot about the changes in Dark Echoes.) Viva la packet filters.

I cannot believe nobody caught my blatent lies in the last post. There were not instant unmorphs in any of the demos (they were camera changes) nor was the first speed trick possible (although you could get in right at the end of the mini-puzzle). I was hoping to draw out people thinking about the demo played for speed. But with TSA's recent experience, that might not be a good thing to do anymore. :(

TimeLess

2006-05-13 02:16:30 pm

Well, they way I figure it, if they need the internet connection to update the game for later on. (small bug fixes, etc) Dont hook it up to the internet. I mean even if they have this wireless internet access, one could do a number of things to prevent it from connecting. Even when offline.

1. Unplug (if no battery)
2. Put it where no signal can get through.(Basement helps)
3. Open the case and remove the network card (Not recomended, assuming its possible)

I'm not sure how its exactly going to work, but there has to be a way to undo updates. How would the store it then? (Could be annother possibility that the updates are stored somewhere on the memory card)

DJGrenola

2006-05-13 03:32:40 pm

Quote from SkippyJr:

Viva la packet filters.

Yeah, I definitely think logging everything that comes and goes is worth doing now. It'll be encrypted, of course, but it might be possible to make some deductions from IPs, packet sizes and so on.

Quote from SkippyJr:

But with TSA's recent experience, that might not be a good thing to do anymore. :(

This is really bad news, indeed. It's starting to look like I'm going to be buying an even number of revolutions, although I'm not sure yet whether that will be 0 or 2.

Andrew Mills

2006-05-13 04:33:49 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Well, when Nintendo go to the effort of fixing an E3 specific demo, that's gotta tell you something right there...

Yoshi348

2006-05-13 06:43:47 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

That games in development get bug-fixed?

Prime Hunter

2006-05-13 08:52:50 pm

That Twilight Princess, which could be the best version of Zelda, (And Nintendo's most popular series) is being watched for bugs and glitches like crazy?

Yoshi348

2006-05-13 09:29:06 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Yeah, honestly, the demo at E3, where all the world's eyes are looking on them, and the game code is currently still being edited anyway, is the place they are MOST likely going to do stuff like that. So it just sort of leaves us where we were before, wherever that may be.

A Silly Goose

2006-05-13 09:42:47 pm

Look, witty text!

First off, I don't see anything like downloaded patches being a problem; there's just nothing in it for Nintendo. What I mean is this: with the limited internal memory available, it would be more prudent for Nintendo to let said memory be filled up with purchased Virtual Console games, rather than free patches for products that have already been bought.

Secondly, if Nintendo does want to shove mandatory patches down everyone's throats, they'll more likely than not know that the best way to do it is to have it bundled together with other additional game content. Seeing as how that content would definitely be impractical to download onto the internal memory alone, the downloadable packages will probably end up being stored on external flash cards--which, of course, renders the whole issue void, because you can just not insert the thing when you don't want the patches. In fact, it'd be a good thing for sequence breaking if they did patches like this, because you'd be able to play any version of the game at any time you wanted.

The bugfix with the Zelda demo isn't a reason to raise concerns, either, because it really makes sense to fix things there--you want the customer is able to take shortcuts through the demo, then they don't receive the full experience. If the demo can't show the player everything it's intended to, it isn't doing it's job. This is especially true when the attention to the game features is stolen away by it.

First off, I don't see anything like downloaded patches being a problem; there's just nothing in it for Nintendo.  What I mean is this: with the limited internal memory available, it would be more prudent for Nintendo to let said memory be filled up with purchased Virtual Console games, rather than free patches for products that have already been bought.

Secondly, if Nintendo does want to shove mandatory patches down everyone's throats, they'll more likely than not know that the best way to do it is to have it bundled together with other additional game content.  Seeing as how that content would definitely be impractical to download onto the internal memory alone, the downloadable packages will probably end up being stored on external flash cards--which, of course, renders the whole issue void, because you can just not insert the thing when you don't want the patches.  In fact, it'd be a good thing for sequence breaking if they did patches like this, because you'd be able to play any version of the game at any time you wanted.

The bugfix with the Zelda demo isn't a reason to raise concerns, either, because it really makes sense to fix things there--you want the customer is able to take shortcuts through the demo, then they don't receive the full experience.  If the demo can't show the player everything it's intended to, it isn't doing it's job.  This is especially true when the attention to the game features is stolen away by it.

TimeLess

2006-05-14 12:27:30 am

Quote from DJGrenola:

This is really bad news, indeed. It's starting to look like I'm going to be buying an even number of revolutions, although I'm not sure yet whether that will be 0 or 2.

0 Is not even, its neutral. It represents a value that is absolute nothing. So, looks like 2 for you Laughing

UchihaSasuke

2006-05-14 01:33:30 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

i agree with silent echo. there's many useless items in mp1 too. the gravity suit is a lot more useless than the gravity boost since you can skip gs but gb is unskippable atm.

mp1 was retro's first game. they had no isea the game could be raped like that. for mp2 they knew it and tried to stop it.

also, it's not the first time nintendo alters a game in the same region. OoT and SSBM were altered too and they posses some gameplay-affecting version differences like the primes (not as many as mp1 and 2 but there's plenty of differences)

also, mp2 had SBs still. i believe that mp3 might have some too (that is, if there's way to extend jumps since dashes seem to be gone)

nate

2006-05-14 02:20:20 am

Quote from PiccoloCube:

mp1 was retro's first game. they had no isea the game could be raped like that. for mp2 they knew it and tried to stop it.

seems like they did a pretty bad job if there's a sw in like every room in prime 2, some people fall into randomly without even trying. no, i have to disagree.

Banjonator

2006-05-14 09:25:55 am

Quote from nate:

Quote from PiccoloCube:

mp1 was retro's first game. they had no isea the game could be raped like that. for mp2 they knew it and tried to stop it.

seems like they did a pretty bad job if there's a sw in like every room in prime 2, some people fall into randomly without even trying. no, i have to disagree.

yeah, remember radix (?) falling into a SW while fighting Amorbis.

arkarian

2006-05-14 10:18:55 am

red chamber dream

I'd just like to say that downloadable patches isn't that bad at all. Automatically updating a Metroid game sucks for us, as SBing is pretty important to the experience, but for all other games, I personally don't care a bit. If the patches make the game less glitchy, more power to them.

DJGrenola

2006-05-14 12:56:07 pm

Quote from Arkarian:

Ifor all other games, I personally don't care a bit.

consider the implications for radix.

nothing would be lost by giving gamers the option of choosing whether or not to update manually instead of ramming stuff onto the revo, and so much could be gained.

arkarian

2006-05-14 05:21:52 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from DJGrenola:

nothing would be lost by giving gamers the option of choosing whether or not to update manually instead of ramming stuff onto the revo, and so much could be gained.

I agree with you there - choice for the consumer is always the best way to go. The best bet would to have a setting where you can choose to have it ask you to update, do it automatically, to not update at all; a setting that could be changed at any time.

nate

2006-05-14 05:26:12 pm

i think it's pretty safe to say something like that will be included.

Yoshi348

2006-05-14 05:32:39 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Optimism ftw.

Actually, I thought I was supposed to be the optimist. Although it is kind of a perverse optimism: more like, bad things might happen quite a bit, but in the long run it'll be alright. And it's not totally impossible.

And 0 is even, damnit.

Vertigo

2006-05-14 05:36:51 pm

lvl 28 Magic Leper

I dunno, you can't decline an update when your system is turned off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiiConnect24

It never sleeps, but you have to.

arkarian

2006-05-14 05:50:05 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Vertigo:

I dunno, you can't decline an update when your system is turned off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiiConnect24

It never sleeps, but you have to.

They never said anything about declining updates or not. I'm talking about a setting that you set once, and then it remains like that. I hate to compare Nintendo to Microsoft, but I'm thinking of something similar to a Windows-style updating system: Ideally, you could set it to never update, like I already said, or you could set it to ask you. If the console is off, it doesn't ask you until you turn it on again. Additionally, the defauly option would be for the system to automatically download and install the latest updates (like most idiotic Windows users choose).

Yoshi348

2006-05-14 07:07:52 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

No! Stay away from the dark side Ark! There's EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL there!

UchihaSasuke

2006-05-14 07:38:43 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

Quote from nate:

Quote from PiccoloCube:

mp1 was retro's first game. they had no isea the game could be raped like that. for mp2 they knew it and tried to stop it.

seems like they did a pretty bad job if there's a sw in like every room in prime 2, some people fall into randomly without even trying. no, i have to disagree.

i said that they tried. i didn't say they suceeded at it since the game ended more SW broken than mp1.

arkarian

2006-05-14 07:58:58 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Yoshi348:

No! Stay away from the dark side Ark! There's EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL there!

Heh. idk, it really shouldn't be an issue if there's an option to turn it off (which there may or may not be ... that's the problem as of now).