MP3 is no longer a Wii Launch Title! *dances*

2006-05-12 12:26:41 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

On the other hand, it'd be unlikely that there isn't SOME way to nuke all data. Does the wii have a hard drive or not?

Apparently not, which is a shame, because the first thing I probably would have done was dismantle the console and image the drive. Sounds like 512 meg of flash is going to be included instead, which makes sense from a cost perspective.

edit: sympb

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 01:58:21 pm

well, if you're going to save something directly to the console, there has to be some way to delete it. Otherwise, with all the updates, your system would become very very full. It only makes sense that if they are going to update the games every once in a while, that there has to be some way to erase the prior updates.

nate

2006-05-12 01:59:28 pm

the small size of the internal storage (per grenola) is really the only reason i agree with you.

DJGrenola

2006-05-12 02:35:28 pm

Quote from Lazylen:

well, if you're going to save something directly to the console, there has to be some way to delete it. Otherwise, with all the updates, your system would become very very full. It only makes sense that if they are going to update the games every once in a while, that there has to be some way to erase the prior updates.

Yeah, but there's a difference between Nintendo choosing when updates get deleted and the owner of the console choosing when updates get deleted. This is the brave new world of public key cryptography.

SkippyJr

2006-05-12 02:39:45 pm

Slightly off topic: For a history of Retro's involvment with Prime (and Miyamoto's smackdowns), this article on the Escapist is pretty darn good. June '99 to November '02 is just over 2 years to design and build a whole new game. Two years on Corruption should be just fine, even though they are making major changes with items (unlike with Echoes).

Surely Retro understands what fun means to us few and bizzare (and vocal) fans, and won't go out of their way to offend us with "fixes". A casual Prime fan learning that SJF is possible doesn't change their perception of the game (other than that it is more fun now that there are multiple ways to progress). Hopefully they've seen MZM and notice that even casual gamers can find replay value in slightly hidden shortcuts (which lead to sequence breaks & item skips).

In fact, watching videos of the E3 demo (from gametrailers.com and screwattack.com), there seems to be a glimmer of hope that this is the case.

1st, the instant unmorphs are back. In the GT vid, the player gets one when leaving the MB minipuzzle (where the walls push you into the fire). 2nd, in that same room it looks like there is no cover over the exit area, meaning that they left in an obvious shortcut where you would just run through the fire and SJ to the door. 3rd, in the last room with the large MB puzzle, the final platform is right in front of you for quite a long time before it rises (and seems to be within reach).

That stuff is obvious low hanging fruit for an anti-SB developer or a QA tester.

It would be unfortunate if it seemed that private forums needed to be set up to hide discoveries. Or if we scheduled days for posting new things so that people could know when to take their Wii off the network. If there ever was anything useful that they "fixed," you can be sure that we would be exceptionally vocal on the issue. The only games I'm aware of that actually mess with the gameplay after shipping are online games. So, as long as Corruption remains a wholly single player game, we should be safe.

It looks like they are focusing a lot of energy on the gameplay this time (as with Prime) and that's a great thing. I hope the Prime team continues with putting platforms just slightly out of reach, but not with arbitrary colored doors (and now grapple doors!) designed soley to corral the gamer. Less of trying to save face (like actively trying to prevent SBs and item skips in Echoes) and more innovation (like taking a short use item like grapple (in both games even when not SBing) and making it cool) will make *all* MP3 players happy.

Slightly off topic:  For a history of Retro's involvment with Prime (and Miyamoto's smackdowns), [url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/39/11]this article on the Escapist[/url] is pretty darn good.  June '99 to November '02 is just over 2 years to design and build a whole new game.  Two years on Corruption should be just fine, even though they are making major changes with items (unlike with Echoes).

Surely Retro understands what fun means to us few and bizzare (and vocal) fans, and won't go out of their way to offend us with "fixes".  A casual Prime fan learning that SJF is possible doesn't change their perception of the game (other than that it is more fun now that there are multiple ways to progress).  Hopefully they've seen MZM and notice that even casual gamers can find replay value in slightly hidden shortcuts (which lead to sequence breaks & item skips).

In fact, watching videos of the E3 demo (from gametrailers.com and screwattack.com), there seems to be a glimmer of hope that this is the case.  [spoiler]1st, the instant unmorphs are back.  In the GT vid, the player gets one when leaving the MB minipuzzle (where the walls push you into the fire).  2nd, in that same room it looks like there is no cover over the exit area, meaning that they left in an obvious shortcut where you would just run through the fire and SJ to the door.  3rd, in the last room with the large MB puzzle, the final platform is right in front of you for quite a long time before it rises (and seems to be within reach).[/spoiler]  That stuff is obvious low hanging fruit for an anti-SB developer or a QA tester.

It would be unfortunate if it seemed that private forums needed to be set up to hide discoveries.  Or if we scheduled days for posting new things so that people could know when to take their Wii off the network.  If there ever was anything useful that they "fixed,"  you can be sure that we would be exceptionally vocal on the issue.  The only games I'm aware of that actually mess with the gameplay after shipping are online games.  So, as long as Corruption remains a wholly single player game, we should be safe.

It looks like they are focusing a lot of energy on the gameplay this time (as with Prime) and that's a great thing.  I hope the Prime team continues with putting platforms just slightly out of reach, but not with arbitrary colored doors (and now grapple doors!) designed soley to corral the gamer.  Less of trying to save face (like actively trying to prevent SBs and item skips in Echoes) and more innovation (like taking a short use item like grapple (in both games even when not SBing) and making it cool) will make *all* MP3 players happy.

Andrew Mills

2006-05-12 03:55:57 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Now, I know that Retro aren't fully to blame for the glitch fixing scenarios of MP1 and MP2 so the chances are that Nintendo themselves will request fixes and will then deliver them over wi-fi, but you be sure that fixes will come in the guise of "additional content" (same as how Sony uses such things with the PSP to update the firmware to upset the homebrew scene).

Radix

2006-05-12 07:17:29 pm

Dont belive anything you hear from Retro management, they're a bunch of liars.
Remember that the Japanese version of echoes was going to "be identical" to the american version. It wasn't.
I won't be buying this game.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 07:44:28 pm

:? What differences are there? If any, they must be tiny.

Back to Corruption: I don't see why you wouldn't get it. So far it looks great. If you have a vendetta against Retro, OK then.

EDIT: You know what, I'm sigging that for its sheer wrongness. Retro aren't liars. If you prove they're liars, I'll remove it.

13M13

2006-05-12 08:15:47 pm

l'appel du vide

I'm glad I only speedrun for fun...

DJGrenola

2006-05-12 09:02:32 pm

Quote from Metatroid:

EDIT: You know what, I'm sigging that for its sheer wrongness. Retro aren't liars. If you prove they're liars, I'll remove it.

exhibit A: http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime2/version_differences.shtml
exhibit B: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3136903

In particular I draw your attention to this:

Quote:

EGM: The PAL and Player's Choice versions of Prime were tweaked. Are you guys planning on doing something like that again?

Michael Kelbaugh: They're identical.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 09:08:56 pm

Wow. I never realized how different they were. I'll remove it then.

13M13

2006-05-12 09:27:02 pm

l'appel du vide

Why should Retro conform to a distinct minority of the gaming community?

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 09:45:03 pm

Because we're the hardcore fans and we know what would make a Metroid game better.

DJGrenola

2006-05-12 09:46:11 pm

because conforming actually means they have to do less work and is therefore less costly. Fixing gamebreaker glitches or crashes is one thing, "fixing" sequence breaks is another. Although I'm of the opinion that most of the fix enforcement comes from Nintendo rather than Retro.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 09:48:43 pm

Yeah. Nintendo wants things to go their way when a third party is making a game. They like to make sure the game is how they want it to be, just to be sure that we can't do things like sequence breaking.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 10:15:20 pm

Quote from Metatroid:

Yeah. Nintendo wants things to go their way when a third party is making a game. They like to make sure the game is how they want it to be, just to be sure that we can't do things like sequence breaking.

I don't think that nintendo is against Sequence Breaking at all. Look at what they did to ZM.

but then again, if you look at Fusion, its an entirely different story...

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 10:18:04 pm

Wrongo. Nintendo made Fusion to be unsequencebreakable, yes, but everything in Zero Mission was intentional, which defeats the whole purpose of Sequence Breaking. They gave us a game of Sequence Breaking on purpose, but that won't happen again. Thank God for that.

arkarian

2006-05-12 10:21:50 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Metatroid:

Yeah. Nintendo wants things to go their way when a third party is making a game.

Retro is second-party, not third-party: it is wholly owned by Nintendo.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-12 10:25:55 pm

O RLY?

I had no idea. I thought it was independent.

nate

2006-05-13 01:26:43 am

nintendo is not against sequence breaking.

not everything we've found in zm was intentional.

retro was bought by nintendo after prime 1 came out.

please refrain from talking out of your ass.

Yoshi348

2006-05-13 02:12:21 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from nate:

nintendo is not against sequence breaking.

retro was bought by nintendo after prime 1 came out.

Those two statements sound contradictary to me, although maybe it's just the proximity.

nate

2006-05-13 02:16:45 am

do you honestly think they bought them because of the sequence breaking?

prime 2 should have finally proven that none of it was intentional on retro's part anyway.

Yoshi348

2006-05-13 02:18:46 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Oh, no. That wouldn't be a REASON. It'd just be something that happened afterwards. I'm not going to buy a house because I want to put new wallpaper in it, but when I do move in I'll put up the damn wallpaper.

Not saying I can say with absolute confidence this is true, but the two statements next to each other sounded odd to me.

ZooM

2006-05-13 03:56:56 am

Can none of you read the writing on the wall?

"Corruption"

It's all over and you know it.

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-05-13 04:50:07 am

There is no way this game will be as much sequence breakable as metroid prime was. :(

I really think that we're lucky if this one is as much sequence breakable as echoes. i don't see that happening though. The longer the game is, the greater the chances are that there will be more obstacles. So, less chances to skip items. :(

I read in this thread that people don't want to see useless items in prime 3 like the gravity boost or the echo visor. Why is the gravity boost considered as an useless item? I mean, why would it be more useless than the gravity suit was in prime? pwuh

Echo visor is as useless as thermal was.