hotarubi's 0:32 single-segment!

2006-12-05 11:28:49 pm

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Ready and willing.

This whole conversation is proof why Super Metroid's control scheme SUCKS.

EDIT: This post is proof why page breaks SUCK.

spidey-widey

2006-12-06 07:18:49 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with both of those statements.

I do, however, like how you can choose a button configuration on Super Metroid. The only bad part is that for speedrunning, all button configurations are horrible.

breslin

2006-12-10 10:45:40 pm

Satoru, yours is a wonderful run. It lifts the spirit.

The murderbeam looks ugly. Is it possible to save time not using the murderbeam (saving time skipping the ice beam or so)?

I am very happy that you saved the animal friends.

spidey-widey

2006-12-10 10:47:43 pm

Skipping the ice beam would be bad, because you would have to kill the metroids with power bombs or some other thing that hurts them that is eluding my mind currently. Skipping another beam may save enough time, but I don't know.

BlueGlass

2006-12-11 12:02:05 am

If any beams are skipped, you cannot use murder beam, which saves about 30 seconds on MB. Ice beam must be grabbed or else the metroids will take forever (3 Power Bombs per room, if all metroids are hit wice by two of them). Skipping Spazer will completely wreck any known thre-round Phantoon strategy, and the same for wave, plus they also both are useful in the Draygon fight using Hotarubi's strat. And Palsma saves tons of time against Ridley and MB phase II. In short, skipping beams is a bad idea.

Azor

2006-12-11 01:34:54 am

Phazon level: 83%

this run was like a gift from god

im not sure about you but it reminded me that any trick is possible even on console

the only real crazy thing that i see now is the pre draygon spark, its hellishly hard

ICheatAtGolf

2007-01-23 12:55:06 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

If any beams are skipped, you cannot use murder beam, which saves about 30 seconds on MB. Ice beam must be grabbed or else the metroids will take forever (3 Power Bombs per room, if all metroids are hit wice by two of them). Skipping Spazer will completely wreck any known thre-round Phantoon strategy, and the same for wave, plus they also both are useful in the Draygon fight using Hotarubi's strat. And Palsma saves tons of time against Ridley and MB phase II. In short, skipping beams is a bad idea.

As seen in TAS', skipping the ice beam until going into lower norfair can save a bit of time, even when using the norfair-gate-hater mockball, since you have to head to that direction anyway later in the game.

Still, getting out of red brinstar would be quite hard to perfect, although im sure Hotarubi could have done it. He obviously has utilized a lot of tricks used in the TAS videos.

On another note...all of these tricks can be done rather easily in realtime on an EMULATOR (using a save state right before attempting the room in which the trick must be used to practice). I myself have successfully attempted every major trick in this video in realtime, although the super short charges took me a LONG time to grasp. But i'm not entirely sure how hard these tricks would be on console, as i lost mine a long time ago.

The skipping of any other beams, besides maybe wave (not sure if this is possible, but would have to more efficiently utilize power bombs) would ruin the run. Ice adds the most power as far as i can tell and the charge/PB wave combo isn't exactly a nesessity for quick killing botwoon (although it does save a few seconds).

And about taping down the dash button, I would just tape it down for the first part of the game, and quickly rip it off before the part where the short charge is needed.

aiwebs_016

sorry for the long ass post.

[quote="BlueGlass"]If any beams are skipped, you cannot use murder beam, which saves about 30 seconds on MB.  Ice beam must be grabbed or else the metroids will take forever (3 Power Bombs per room, if all metroids are hit wice by two of them).  Skipping Spazer will completely wreck any known thre-round Phantoon strategy, and the same for wave, plus they also both are useful in the Draygon fight using Hotarubi's strat.  And Palsma saves tons of time against Ridley and MB phase II.  In short, skipping beams is a bad idea.[/quote]

As seen in TAS', skipping the ice beam until going into lower norfair can save a bit of time, even when using the norfair-gate-hater mockball, since you have to head to that direction anyway later in the game.

Still, getting out of red brinstar would be quite hard to perfect, although im sure Hotarubi could have done it. He obviously has utilized a lot of tricks used in the TAS videos.

On another note...all of these tricks can be done rather easily in realtime on an EMULATOR (using a save state right before attempting the room in which the trick must be used to practice).  I myself have successfully attempted every major trick in this video in realtime, although the super short charges took me a LONG time to grasp.  But i'm not entirely sure how hard these tricks would be on console, as i lost mine a long time ago.

The skipping of any other beams, besides maybe wave (not sure if this is possible, but would have to more efficiently utilize power bombs) would ruin the run.  Ice adds the most power as far as i can tell and the charge/PB wave combo isn't exactly a nesessity for quick killing botwoon (although it does save a few seconds).

And about taping down the dash button, I would just tape it down for the first part of the game, and quickly rip it off before the part where the short charge is needed.

[aiwebs_016]  sorry for the long ass post.

BlueGlass

2007-01-23 02:56:14 pm

Not sure if you noticed, but we developed a new boss strategy for Phantoon that saves a lot of time and REQUIRES wave.

And you might want to watch the TAS again, as quickly climbing the red Brinstar shaft withou ice is almost definitely a TAS-only trick, and the time it would take to use a slower method of climbing would more than negate the small amount of time saved by grabbing ice later.

And as far as doing the tricks with a savestate, well, anything that doesn't require a near-perfect short charge, near perfect arm-pumping, of something similar can be done with a savestate and a bunch of tries. Of course, doing it on console in a speedrun would require you to get it on your first try.

moozooh

2007-01-23 03:55:52 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

quickly climbing the red Brinstar shaft withou ice is almost definitely a TAS-only trick, and the time it would take to use a slower method of climbing would more than negate the small amount of time saved by grabbing ice later.

How about walljumping up to the point between 2nd and 3rd rippers, shooting the block, then falling down and quickly walljumping back up? It is ~3-5 seconds longer than going up with Ice or TAS-style, but I think that time could be saved by grabbing Ice later. There is also a way of dubious feasibility but nice potential, as seen in Hero of the day's test any% TAS: to walljump up to the end, shoot the block diagonally, morph in mid-air and walljump up. Certainly not for a SS run, but may have its use in segmented.

BlueGlass

2007-01-23 04:29:14 pm

The only advantage you'd have timewise when grabbing Ice on the way to lower norfair in an any% run would be having space jump. There is no way having space jump when grabbing Ice saves 3-5 seconds on grabbing the beam. And remember that 100% needs ice before going to Maridia.

EDIT: Just watched the test TAS, and I noticed an obvious improvement. At the missile lake before the Wrecked Ship, instead of landing on the pillar and DBJing across, he could use the walljump method Kejardon discovered.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-01-23 11:37:53 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

The only advantage you'd have timewise when grabbing Ice on the way to lower norfair in an any% run would be having space jump. There is no way having space jump when grabbing Ice saves 3-5 seconds on grabbing the beam. And remember that 100% needs ice before going to Maridia.

EDIT: Just watched the test TAS, and I noticed an obvious improvement. At the missile lake before the Wrecked Ship, instead of landing on the pillar and DBJing across, he could use the walljump method Kejardon discovered.

yes, i noticed the new wave beam strategy with phantoon. i'm not sure if this was supposed to challenge my intelligence or what, but either way there may be new undiscovered strategies not involving the wave beam to defeat phantoon quickly, as he can be defeated pretty fast with only missiles, charge beam and a final blow with a super.

getting the ice beam on the way to lower norfair would prevent having to make a second trip into that room.

moozooh

2007-01-24 12:11:21 am

Quote from BlueGlass:

At the missile lake before the Wrecked Ship, instead of landing on the pillar and DBJing across, he could use the walljump method Kejardon discovered.

Yeah, I believe he already knows it. Otherwise, I'll remind him asap.

BlueGlass

2007-01-24 02:10:03 am

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

getting the ice beam on the way to lower norfair would prevent having to make a second trip into that room.

You're thinking of 100%. Any% only needs to go to that area once: to get the ice beam. And 100%, as I stated above, needs ice (or grapple) before going to Maridia.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-01-24 06:51:28 am

Quote from BlueGlass:

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

getting the ice beam on the way to lower norfair would prevent having to make a second trip into that room.

You're thinking of 100%. Any% only needs to go to that area once: to get the ice beam. And 100%, as I stated above, needs ice (or grapple) before going to Maridia.

oh, yeah...the alternate route to lower norfair slipped my mind. although im sure there must be SOME way to improve this route, as obviously he made a few small improvments to an already near-perfect route.

i can't get it out of my mind that there are some alternate paths which would be a softer blow on the in-game timer...you know, "looks can be decieving" that whole deal, do we even know for sure that traveling to tourian using the brinstar path is faster than the zebes space shaft path? that may be a bad example, but i think you know what im getting at.

BlueGlass

2007-01-24 05:34:44 pm

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

i can't get it out of my mind that there are some alternate paths which would be a softer blow on the in-game timer...you know, "looks can be decieving" that whole deal, do we even know for sure that traveling to tourian using the brinstar path is faster than the zebes space shaft path? that may be a bad example, but i think you know what im getting at.

Actually, it was concluded that going through Maridia (like all the runs before Hotarubi) was the fastest way by several seconds. Going up the escape shaft is, again, 100% (except for Scarlet's run).

GreenMamba

2007-01-31 02:17:10 pm

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

Quote:

Q. How do you hold your controller?
A. Like this:

See, and here I was thinking I was crazy for holding the controller like that.

JaggerG

2007-01-31 09:39:30 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

You guys seriously can't hit only the Y and A using just the thumb? O_o

BioSpark

2007-01-31 09:43:13 pm

But you can't hit them at the same time with just your thumb.

JaggerG

2007-01-31 09:45:00 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I can't? >_>

Are you sure? <_<

BioSpark

2007-01-31 09:46:39 pm

Well, I guess if you turned your thumb sideways, but that's kind of awkward, probably too awkward for speedrunners.

BlueGlass

2007-01-31 09:53:54 pm

I can hit A, B, and Y all fine (and any required combination of the three) with just my thumb by turning it diagonally.

Tonski

2007-02-15 02:34:16 pm

I would've gotten that Shinespark before Draygon!

...in my dreams.

Seriously, though I'm really impressed by this run. I've never seen anything skill-based comparable to this when talking about Super Metroid. And if he seriously holds the controller like that... Well I find it akward.

But you know didn't Red Scarlet say that the shinespark before Draygon is impossible on the console? I say put a nasty word here. I've done it on my SNES. I'm impressed how can a WR-speedrunner claim something like that.

EDIT: Gunship? I meant to say BULLSHIT. This forum is making my posts go wrong. :(

Yoshi348

2007-02-15 02:53:17 pm

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Ready and willing.

Forum censor for bad words.

MASTER-88

2007-02-19 06:24:32 pm

Speedrunner

I finally finished watching Hotarubi run.

It was definitely coolest run ever on console. His run looks like pretty much Terimakashis TAS run.

There are so weird speedtricks and Hotarubi manipulate luck was almost perfect. Cool and lucky man! 8-)

His mock ball was weird, he use different mock ball method than me. Just like gate hater trick is impossible my mock ball method.

His Botwoon, Draygon and Mother brain battle was very insanes battles, looks like TAS. Phantoom battle was pretty slow, but hell yeah it was still better battle than my segmented run Phantom battle.

This run was best ever in the world!!!! Shocked

We can wait Blue glass 100% SS run next. 100% run is harder than any-%. I really want see his as perfect 100% SS run someday. Wink

moozooh

2007-02-19 06:37:51 pm

I remember catnap222 saying that Hotarubi will also attempt a SS 100% run (with an estimated time of 0:52), so it would really be interesting to know who will finish it first and/or do better than the other. :)

The Japanese community has kept some interesting tricks up their sleeve, but now that all of them (as catnap said) are exposed, it all comes down to personal skill and perseverance. Yay competition!