Early Elysia!

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2011-07-20 01:59:02 pm

rekameohs: 2011-07-20 01:34:50 pm

2011-07-20 12:30:06 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from Paraxade:

5. grapple swing - lessee... grapple swing is primarily only needed for grapple ziplines in Elysia, but with the MDB and LSA SWs, the vast majority of those aren't necessary. I think the only place we still need grapple swing is in spire docks, going to and from the aurora unit or to LSA. I can't think of anywhere else we need it. still seems unlikely for now though... but a SW near the aurora unit would theoretically skip this. (I could still be forgetting something, though)

There'd have to be a sw in the aurora unit area and in the boost ball area. You can't cross Spire Dock after getting boost.

EDIT: I also started looking for a screw attack-less valhalla secret world and noticed something. In the room Weapons Cache (where you get the missile expansion by putting in two e-cells), you can get stuck in the ceiling and see out into the open space. It's a bit of a lead.

EDIT 2: Also, if you go in the morph ball tunnel where you get the ship missile expansion backwards, you can go through the wall, at the end, but you can't leave the map. Also, the expansion doesn't exist yet.

[quote="Paraxade"]
5. grapple swing - lessee... grapple swing is primarily only needed for grapple ziplines in Elysia, but with the MDB and LSA SWs, the vast majority of those aren't necessary. I think the only place we still need grapple swing is in spire docks, going to and from the aurora unit or to LSA. I can't think of anywhere else we need it. still seems unlikely for now though... but a SW near the aurora unit would theoretically skip this. (I could still be forgetting something, though)
[/quote]
There'd have to be a sw in the aurora unit area and in the boost ball area. You can't cross Spire Dock after getting boost.

EDIT: I also started looking for a screw attack-less valhalla secret world and noticed something. In the room Weapons Cache (where you get the missile expansion by putting in two e-cells), you can get stuck in the ceiling and see out into the open space. It's a bit of a lead.

EDIT 2: Also, if you go in the morph ball tunnel where you get the ship missile expansion backwards, you can go through the wall, at the end, but you can't leave the map. Also, the expansion doesn't exist yet.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2011-07-20 02:37:06 pm

Prime Hunter: 2011-07-20 02:35:56 pm

2011-07-20 02:35:36 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Why does it feel like you're the only one who's actually doing anything with this game anymore?

haha, it feels that way to me too. :P I'm not complaining too much, since it IS kinda fun getting to break a game like this all on my own, but I do wish I wasn't the one doing everything sometimes. that said, miles and reka definitely helped on the ice missiles/hyper ball skips, so don't forget them. :P

Ah, true... and now I feel kinda bad for forgetting them because you're right. If it wasn't for the community being able to bounce ideas off of each other we'd never have gotten anywhere, would we?

And I'd love to help in some way, but again my lack of knowledge with Secret Worlds, which seems to be the only thing we have to work with at this point, prevents me from really contributing anything worthwhile. Granted, as you pointed out, we're at the point where skipping anything else is going to require a huge find in regards to getting events to trigger early. There's only so much we can do otherwise with how often some items are used in this game.

Sadly, I've got next to no ideas. Omega Ridley gives us the Hyper Grapple, and if we skip that we can skip him too I'd guess. (And the "Protect the Bomb Squad" part if I'm not mistaken) The code activation area can be accessed with or without fighting him, right? If we find a way to get back out of there if could theoretically bypass that Nova door as well, leaving the door on the Valhalla as the only place for Nova. So that's two secret worlds we need to hunt for, one on the Homeworld, the other on the Valhalla, and if we manage to get them we could bypass two items in one go. (Nova and Hyper Grapple)

Thing is, does having the Nova Beam do anything on Phaaze? It doesn't increase damage or allow us to hit anything we couldn't otherwise, does it? (Because of the Hyper Beam)

Edit: Make that 3 SWs. Forgot we need another one on Phaaze for a moment there.

[quote="Paraxade"][quote="Prime Hunter"]Why does it feel like you're the only one who's actually doing anything with this game anymore?[/quote]
haha, it feels that way to me too. :P I'm not complaining too much, since it IS kinda fun getting to break a game like this all on my own, but I do wish I wasn't the one doing everything sometimes. that said, miles and reka definitely helped on the ice missiles/hyper ball skips, so don't forget them. :P[/quote]
Ah, true... and now I feel kinda bad for forgetting them because you're right. If it wasn't for the community being able to bounce ideas off of each other we'd never have gotten anywhere, would we?

And I'd love to help in some way, but again my lack of knowledge with Secret Worlds, which seems to be the only thing we have to work with at this point, prevents me from really contributing anything worthwhile. Granted, as you pointed out, we're at the point where skipping anything else is going to require a huge find in regards to getting events to trigger early. There's only so much we can do otherwise with how often some items are used in this game.

Sadly, I've got next to no ideas. Omega Ridley gives us the Hyper Grapple, and if we skip that we can skip him too I'd guess. (And the "Protect the Bomb Squad" part if I'm not mistaken) The code activation area can be accessed with or without fighting him, right? If we find a way to get back out of there if could theoretically bypass that Nova door as well, leaving the door on the Valhalla as the only place for Nova. So that's two secret worlds we need to hunt for, one on the Homeworld, the other on the Valhalla, and if we manage to get them we could bypass two items in one go. (Nova and Hyper Grapple)

Thing is, does having the Nova Beam do anything on Phaaze? It doesn't increase damage or allow us to hit anything we couldn't otherwise, does it? (Because of the Hyper Beam)

Edit: Make that 3 SWs. Forgot we need another one on Phaaze for a moment there.

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-20 02:58:33 pm

2011-07-20 02:54:03 pm

The thing is if you're looking for a secret world to get out of the defense room, you only have two rooms to look in - the transit station and the defense room. And both of them are pretty easy to check out for possible entrances with moon jump - no feasible entrances for either of them (I don't entirely remember for the defense room, but I'm sure I checked it out last year). That's assuming you can clip through the grapple blob. If you're hoping you can find a SW to get past it, there's about a zero chance of that happening because you essentially only have one room to look in and it's airtight.

The most likely way that hyper grapple skip would happen is to manage to clip back through the hyper grapple blob, then a 2bsj SW entrance on Phaaze... I can't see any way for Nova skip to happen that wouldn't be useless for low%. Maybe any%, but unless long wallcrawls on the Valhalla can be avoided, it's doubtful.

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2011-07-21 01:56:38 am

2011-07-21 01:54:54 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

one idea i had was trying to get nova before plasma but it seems impossible due to the amount of stuff in between. would be cool to see what happens if you could get it like that.

as usual, parax beasting though the game with the help of other people really good at this game. i wish i could contribute but i barely know this game compared to the others. the breaking apart of the game is still enjoyable to see, especially in real time.

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2011-07-21 11:33:19 pm

Hazel: 2011-07-21 11:32:56 pm

2011-07-21 11:32:40 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Quote from rekameohs:

EDIT: I also started looking for a screw attack-less valhalla secret world and noticed something. In the room Weapons Cache (where you get the missile expansion by putting in two e-cells), you can get stuck in the ceiling and see out into the open space. It's a bit of a lead.

only because I have far too much free time I'm testing this :P

and ummm yeah if I didn't suck at corruption/ don't know it well, I would be doing much more to help out with this....

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-22 11:45:16 am

2011-07-22 11:41:43 am

well, I gave it a shot on my stream earlier, and it seems that clipping back through the hyper grapple blob doesn't work. :/ At least, it doesn't work the same way as it does in Security Tube. Couldn't manage to clip back out, even with moonjump on. So guess that's still an obstacle for Hyper Grapple skip.

by the way, if anyone wants to give MDA a shot, for the record - you don't actually need to make it across the pit to get to the other side. The Ghor fight starts if you shoot Ghor and the load trigger for MDB is halfway across the pit; you can get that far just by boost springing across. I had an idea that I thought would work... went to Zipline Station Alpha and opened the door to MDA and shot a charge shot through the door (slowest weapon). Then I stepped back so the door would close; that makes it so the charge shot can pass through the walls in MDA. Then after it passed through, roll back through, jump across and hit the load trigger, then home menu the load for MDB, and hopefully unpause and have the shot hit Ghor.

Turned out the home menu trick doesn't work. Like, at all. Shame because I really thought it had a good chance of working.

well, I gave it a shot on my stream earlier, and it seems that clipping back through the hyper grapple blob doesn't work. :/ At least, it doesn't work the same way as it does in Security Tube. Couldn't manage to clip back out, even with moonjump on. So guess that's still an obstacle for Hyper Grapple skip.

by the way, if anyone wants to give MDA a shot, for the record - you don't actually need to make it across the pit to get to the other side. The Ghor fight starts if you shoot Ghor and the load trigger for MDB is halfway across the pit; you can get that far just by boost springing across. I had an idea that I thought would work... went to Zipline Station Alpha and opened the door to MDA and shot a charge shot through the door (slowest weapon). Then I stepped back so the door would close; that makes it so the charge shot can pass through the walls in MDA. Then after it passed through, roll back through, jump across and hit the load trigger, then home menu the load for MDB, and hopefully unpause and have the shot hit Ghor.

Turned out the home menu trick doesn't work. Like, at all. Shame because I really thought it had a good chance of working.

Hazel

2011-07-22 12:38:34 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

so about weapons cache, I can't tell if the rooms boundaries just dont match up with the roof or if this are none, any tips on double BSJ's? becasue I cant seem to get them to work and single BSJ's don't give the hight we're going to need

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-22 08:35:25 pm

2011-07-22 08:33:47 pm

whee

was on hyper, of course.

Jerry9

2011-07-22 09:30:22 pm

not evil,just hungry

Quote from itsPersonnal:

so about weapons cache, I can't tell if the rooms boundaries just dont match up with the roof or if this are none, any tips on double BSJ's? becasue I cant seem to get them to work and single BSJ's don't give the hight we're going to need

you can only get 'hit' by 1 bomb in the air. this gets reset when you touch the ground. you'll need a wall with some lips (ex: ridley tube skip) in it to get 2bj height.

Cool to see that 18% is now official. good work.

Prime Hunter

2011-07-22 09:54:59 pm

So just to clarify, these new tricks drop what off the list, exactly? Ice Missiles and Hyper Ball, right? Man, I feel so out of date with all of this suddenly.

Jerry9

2011-07-22 10:10:02 pm

not evil,just hungry

you are correct. we now skip ice missiles, hyper ball, spider ball, hazard shield, 3 energy cells

Prime Hunter

2011-07-22 11:18:35 pm

Don't we have Screw Attack in that list as well?

Miles

2011-07-23 12:09:38 am

No, Screw Attack is required to skip one of the energy cells and the spider ball. Getting Screw Attack is +1% and can be used for -2% to get a net -1%.

Prime Hunter

2011-07-23 01:01:37 am

I see where my math is off now. Back when it was just 22% we were only skipping 2 energy cells weren't we?

Still, given that we had already gotten down to 22% nearly a month or so after the game launched, it's awesome to see that there's still something new to uncover almost four years after the fact.

rekameohs

2011-07-23 01:32:20 am

Anywhere, everywhere

The normal is 25%

22% is the minimum low% without secret worlds, skipping hazard shield (I thought you would've remembered that since you found it! :P) and the two energy cells.

Prime Hunter

2011-07-23 03:06:04 am

I worded that wrong. I meant in the list Jerry9 put up there were 3 energy cells and I didn't realize that number had increased at first, so I was confused as to how we went from just the ECs and the Hazard Shield skip (what I thought was 22) down to 18 if there were only 3 extra items listed.

And yeah, I'll always remember the Hazard Shield because it's my one real "concrete" contribution to the M2K2 community since I've been here and I consider myself very lucky to be able to say that given the amount of talent that has been through here over the years. (And still is here, as this topic I've now derailed can prove quite well)

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-23 09:41:37 am

Aruki: 2011-07-23 08:22:11 am

2011-07-23 08:19:05 am

Small update, I figured out how to transition the nova door in Phazon Quarry without nova. You have to morph on top of the door and roll off it. Doesn't help low% but it should save a lot of time in a speedrun since you can just wallcrawl through two rooms instead of going through the mines the long way. Hopefully the fight skip works out, I can't test it since I don't have a save there anymore.

also theoretically, for a run that doesn't skip hyper ball, you can probably save a few seconds before Ghor by shooting in his direction then unloading MDB's graphics instead of rolling down there manually. Haven't done it but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

edit: 18% hyper phaaze

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2011-07-23 11:50:45 am

2011-07-23 11:47:02 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

ugghh any help on early elysia? I can got on the crate fine but it doesn't move I just fall off trying to get anywhere from it

Aruki

2011-07-23 11:48:15 am

You can't jump on the drone, you won't have the height to make it up and you'll just get stuck on it. You need to jump on its crate, on the right side of it, and then jump from that on top of the drone. Check the text instructions in the first post, they're fairly detailed.

Hazel

2011-07-23 11:51:34 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

ok so I need to go around to the front then I can jump on the drone?

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-24 10:42:23 am

2011-07-24 10:10:35 am

New mines route, saves almost 4 minutes.

This game's starting to turn into quite a glitchfest, I'd honestly consider doing a new run if a few more things got broken. :P

Prime Hunter

2011-07-24 01:51:55 pm

Wait, so did you die when you grabbed the Nova Beam or did I miss something important?

Aruki

2011-07-24 02:40:16 pm

Yeah, the laser thing or whatever it is around Nova does shitloads of damage. I think the cutscene locks you in place so you constantly take damage until you die. Maybe you can get around it by going hyper or something, I dunno... didn't try.

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2011-07-24 09:23:16 pm

2011-07-24 09:23:01 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

that would look so cool in a run. a true wtf moment and there's nothing like it in the first 2 games because of no checkpoints.

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-07-25 11:20:05 am

2011-07-25 09:54:08 am

Alright, found another new SW, and it's in East Elysia before any of the Plasma requirements, which means it's possible to wallcrawl to Landing Site B before Plasma and then fly to Ghor.

The main problem is how far down you fall after making it in, which means we're gonna have to go all the way to CV's aether (and it can't be the edge you're closest to, because then the game will unload CV to load Chozo Observatory) and aether jump up. We're also gonna have to wallcrawl through Chozo Observatory instead of going through Concourse to Piston Tunnel because I don't think there's a way to wallcrawl up to the Concourse door (in CV the game seems to set the terminal fall respawn location even if you don't touch the room). I'm just not sure how to quickly get out of CV, because the game doesn't seem to like to unload it while you're in its aether.

Anyway, other than CV, there's no big, open rooms on the way except Skybridge Athene, and that room is possible to wallcrawl without falling all the way to the bottom and jumping back up. I feel confident in saying this should make it worth it to skip Bryyo in a speedrun. Though tbh I'm thinking the 20-30 minute estimate is a bit generous, it only takes 26 minutes in my speedrun from landing on Bryyo to landing on Elysia and we need to subtract some time for how long these wallcrawls take over doing it normally. Still, 15-20 minutes is not bad at all.

Might try to see how fast I can pull off this wallcrawl from CV to LSB to see how long it takes later.

So our Elysia route is fly in after getting Grapple Swing/Bryyo map, then hop into SW15, crawl to ZSA, reenter, proceed like normal until Boost, then activate the AU, go back to Landing Site A and enter the SW, wallcrawl to East Elysia, go to Concourse Ventilation, wallcrawl to Landing Site B, fly to Main Docking Bay, fight Ghor and get plasma, repair the AU, go to Landing Site A, fly to Landing Site B, proceed like normal from there.

... Oh god, the Landing Site A and Concourse Ventilation SWs are in the same segment. That sounds horrible.

edit: one more thing, there's a really small ledge in CV next to the door. If you can get a little bit of height and land on that instead of transitioning the door then you can do the whole thing much faster and won't need to aether jump up CV.

Alright, found another new SW, and it's in East Elysia before any of the Plasma requirements, which means it's possible to wallcrawl to Landing Site B before Plasma and then fly to Ghor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxzGx2xC79M

The main problem is how far down you fall after making it in, which means we're gonna have to go all the way to CV's aether (and it can't be the edge you're closest to, because then the game will unload CV to load Chozo Observatory) and aether jump up. We're also gonna have to wallcrawl through Chozo Observatory instead of going through Concourse to Piston Tunnel because I don't think there's a way to wallcrawl up to the Concourse door (in CV the game seems to set the terminal fall respawn location even if you don't touch the room). I'm just not sure how to quickly get out of CV, because the game doesn't seem to like to unload it while you're in its aether.

Anyway, other than CV, there's no big, open rooms on the way except Skybridge Athene, and that room is possible to wallcrawl without falling all the way to the bottom and jumping back up. I feel confident in saying this should make it worth it to skip Bryyo in a speedrun. Though tbh I'm thinking the 20-30 minute estimate is a bit generous, it only takes 26 minutes in my speedrun from landing on Bryyo to landing on Elysia and we need to subtract some time for how long these wallcrawls take over doing it normally. Still, 15-20 minutes is not bad at all.

Might try to see how fast I can pull off this wallcrawl from CV to LSB to see how long it takes later.

So our Elysia route is fly in after getting Grapple Swing/Bryyo map, then hop into SW15, crawl to ZSA, reenter, proceed like normal until Boost, then activate the AU, go back to Landing Site A and enter the SW, wallcrawl to East Elysia, go to Concourse Ventilation, wallcrawl to Landing Site B, fly to Main Docking Bay, fight Ghor and get plasma, repair the AU, go to Landing Site A, fly to Landing Site B, proceed like normal from there.

... Oh god, the Landing Site A and Concourse Ventilation SWs are in the same segment. That sounds horrible.

edit: one more thing, there's a really small ledge in CV next to the door. If you can get a little bit of height and land on that instead of transitioning the door then you can do the whole thing much faster and won't need to aether jump up CV.