my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
one thing that has bugged me lately is: how can you roll inside the SW? i thought you'd fall forever in ball form.
Because some rooms have invisible floors.
Archived M2K2 Forum
Anywhere, everywhere
If you screw attack into the back end of the hyper grapple blob at a certain angle (kinda from the left edge to the center), the frames per second dip to about 15-20 and the camera gets wonky. I've got the camera to leave the map but I haven't been able to clip through or anything.
There are also places where it does that little "pushing teleport" effect when you're on an uneven surface, like in the hyper ball skip, but I can only get it to dump me on the wrong side of the blob.
There are also places where it does that little "pushing teleport" effect when you're on an uneven surface, like in the hyper ball skip, but I can only get it to dump me on the wrong side of the blob.
Anywhere, everywhere
Ok, so some weird stuff happens when you screw attack at certain angles into the blob. Sometimes you can move around slightly while stuck in the "unmorph" animation, sometimes the camera can creep through the wall, and sometimes THIS happens. I know it's pretty impossible to see, but it's like a strobe light effect of the camera zooming waaay out of the map and back in. I don't know if this means anything. I know the video is really dumb and impossible to decipher, but yeah, that's what you wanted! :P
Random, but I was re-reading this thread for the hell of it and i noticed parax say this:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If parax remembers what he meant when he said this a few years back, it'd be great if you can clarify it?
Quote from Paraxade:
also theoretically, for a run that doesn't skip hyper ball, you can probably save a few seconds before Ghor by shooting in his direction then unloading MDB's graphics instead of rolling down there manually. Haven't done it but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If parax remembers what he meant when he said this a few years back, it'd be great if you can clarify it?
OK, so this is quite a bump, but some things have really changed recently for low% and this is really the only thread where stuff was discussed in detail, so I'm keeping it here for now. (Unless of course people object, then we can move it as necessary)
So the list below is Parax's 18% discussion from back in 2011, which was out of date because of 17% until recently (Item 14, the energy cell in command courtyard was skipped a long time ago, hence the strikeout)
Since this post, 3 items have been skipped, those are indicated by strikethrough in the above.
So where do the current developments leave us? With the discovery today that you can transition to spire from Escape Pod Bay, we're now down to 15% for Corruption Low%, with the items listed below.
1. Energy Tank - Not Skippable
2. Missile Launcher - Probably not Skippable since we need them for seekers
3. Grapple Lasso - Need it for Omega Ridley and Defense Drone at least, so probably not going anywhere anytime soon
4. PED - Uhhh probably not skippable? Not really sure what's limiting this since we don't need to get through Grand Court anymore, Corrupting yourself is optional and the only other thing that's necessary is the Hyper grapple points possibly? Either way we have no current way to skip it.
5. Boost Ball - Needed for not only most SWs on Elysia, but in a few other places as well.
6. Plasma Beam - Needed for Welding on spire, and plasma doors on PH.
7. Screw Attack - Technically skippable but requires more items to skip than to obtain
8. Xenoresearch Energy Cell - Needed for seekers and for on the Valhalla, since we need at least one Energy Cell for the lift
9. Seeker Missiles - Needed for Elysia Seed and X-Ray, seems the most likely item to skip next for me if we can find some way around the seed, X-Ray can probably be IS'd or obtained another way, but is needed.
10. Ship Missiles - Needed to access the PH seed. If we can skip Hyper Grapple, these can go as well.
11. Hyper Missiles - Only required since we have to defeat Helios to actually get to PH. Annoying really.
12. XRay Visor - Needed for Leviathan Code, and a couple of other XRay terminals, although I think most can be wallcrawled around somehow?
13. Grapple Voltage - Required to use Hyper Grapple, and a couple of other places (Leviathan code being the main one)
14. Nova Beam - Needed for Omega Ridley, and getting back off the Valhalla (Nova door is crawled past on the way in.)
15. Hyper Grapple - Needed in 2 places. Blob to get to the pirate command code, and the second room of Phaaze. People have been saying this is the next item that will get skipped for 5 years, and we've skipped 2 other grapple items instead so.... :P
So yeah 15%. Seems like the next thing to go if anything will be seekers, and a lot of other items are pinned down by either use in end-game or the chain of pre-requisites that creates.
So the list below is Parax's 18% discussion from back in 2011, which was out of date because of 17% until recently (Item 14, the energy cell in command courtyard was skipped a long time ago, hence the strikeout)
Quote from Parax:
hmm, thinking where we might be able to skip other items...
1. energy tank - not gonna be skippable.
2. missile launcher - again, not gonna be skippable. if for no reason other than seekers are not gonna be skippable, and we need missiles to use seekers.
3. grapple lasso - required for countless bosses (including the final boss), pulling debris and stuff, etc. not gonna be skippable.
4. PED - even if you get off the Olympus without it, you run into a roadblock very fast - you need it to get past the phazon vines on the way to Grand Court. beyond that, you need hypermode all over the place. also, getting off the olympus without getting the PED in the first place means skipping norion, which means not getting grapple lasso. PED is not gonna be skippable.
5. grapple swing - lessee... grapple swing is primarily only needed for grapple ziplines in Elysia, but with the MDB and LSA SWs, the vast majority of those aren't necessary. I think the only place we still need grapple swing is in spire docks, going to and from the aurora unit or to LSA. I can't think of anywhere else we need it. still seems unlikely for now though... but a SW near the aurora unit would theoretically skip this. (I could still be forgetting something, though)
6. ship missiles - these are necessary because you need them to get into the pirate homeworld seed. the game actually does check for them. :/ lame, but I don't see a way around it.
7. boost ball - needed to get in and out of the aurora unit's chamber, needed to activate the lift to East Elysia, a spinner in Xenoresearch, a fair few half-pipes in Pirate Homeworld I believe... this is not going to be skippable.
8. plasma beam - needed for plasma doors - there's going to be a plasma door in the way in east elysia no matter which path you take, plus you'll run into a plasma door on the way back out; it's also required to get to and from ice bryyo, and several welding puzzles on elysia and pirate homeworld; it's not gonna happen
9. screw attack - already skippable, but for low%, it's needed to enter the secret worlds in Docking Bay 5 and Phazon Quarry... PQ might be doable without SA, but I doubt DB5 is.
10. ship grapple - needed to assemble the theronian bomb, i don't see a way around picking it up
11. xenoresearch energy cell - this is required as long as seekers are required. I've managed to pick up seekers without getting the energy cell before by door warping in while standing where seekers are with the room loaded; you just get stuck.
12. seekers - needed to be able to pick up two of the bomb components, the phazon things blocking the path in the elysia seed, and before picking up xray
13. hyper missiles - not necessary for anything except triggering the pirate homeworld landing site. retarded but again, I don't see much of a way around it. if we can find a way to trigger the PH landing site appearing without picking this up, then it's skipped.
14. command courtyard energy cell - this is necessary to get to xray... if there was a way around that, then this would be skippable.
15. xray visor - needed for all the xray consoles; there's a ton of them, in a lot of very unskippable spots (like getting the leviathan code off the valhalla).
16. grapple voltage - this is required in a lot of places. the biggest places I can think of are - it's required to take down the force field in command courtyard, it's required to get to the leviathan code on the valhalla, it's required to get in and out of the leviathan battleship, and it's required to plain use hyper grapple at all. I really cannot see it ever being skippable.
17. nova beam - this is only necessary in two places - to kill Omega Ridley and to get back out of the valhalla after getting the leviathan code. it's a bit of a stretch, but with a new valhalla SW or IS spot and hyper grapple skip, this should be skippable. the problem is there's kinda a third spot - a nova door on pirate homeworld in the room with the defense systems. you can get in through SWs and get back out through a morph ball tunnel, so just for plain skipping nova it's not an issue, but the morph ball tunnel forces you to pick up a missile expansion - so it wouldn't be a % drop.
18. hyper grapple - this is only needed in two places: getting out after using the leviathan command code, and the hyper grapple blob on phaaze. this is probably the next most likely item to be skipped. we'd need a way to clip back out after using the leviathan code and a SW in the first room of Phaaze; I want to go try the former some more later since I was able to clip back through in security tube, and the latter is actually feasible, though I wasn't able to get it to work.
so yep. Let's get cracking on hyper grapple skip, it's one of the only skips left that seems truly feasible... maybe if we could glitch up the scripts to trigger places early we could skip more, but it seems like a stretch for now.
1. energy tank - not gonna be skippable.
2. missile launcher - again, not gonna be skippable. if for no reason other than seekers are not gonna be skippable, and we need missiles to use seekers.
3. grapple lasso - required for countless bosses (including the final boss), pulling debris and stuff, etc. not gonna be skippable.
4. PED - even if you get off the Olympus without it, you run into a roadblock very fast - you need it to get past the phazon vines on the way to Grand Court. beyond that, you need hypermode all over the place. also, getting off the olympus without getting the PED in the first place means skipping norion, which means not getting grapple lasso. PED is not gonna be skippable.
6. ship missiles - these are necessary because you need them to get into the pirate homeworld seed. the game actually does check for them. :/ lame, but I don't see a way around it.
7. boost ball - needed to get in and out of the aurora unit's chamber, needed to activate the lift to East Elysia, a spinner in Xenoresearch, a fair few half-pipes in Pirate Homeworld I believe... this is not going to be skippable.
8. plasma beam - needed for plasma doors - there's going to be a plasma door in the way in east elysia no matter which path you take, plus you'll run into a plasma door on the way back out; it's also required to get to and from ice bryyo, and several welding puzzles on elysia and pirate homeworld; it's not gonna happen
9. screw attack - already skippable, but for low%, it's needed to enter the secret worlds in Docking Bay 5 and Phazon Quarry... PQ might be doable without SA, but I doubt DB5 is.
11. xenoresearch energy cell - this is required as long as seekers are required. I've managed to pick up seekers without getting the energy cell before by door warping in while standing where seekers are with the room loaded; you just get stuck.
12. seekers - needed to be able to pick up two of the bomb components, the phazon things blocking the path in the elysia seed, and before picking up xray
13. hyper missiles - not necessary for anything except triggering the pirate homeworld landing site. retarded but again, I don't see much of a way around it. if we can find a way to trigger the PH landing site appearing without picking this up, then it's skipped.
15. xray visor - needed for all the xray consoles; there's a ton of them, in a lot of very unskippable spots (like getting the leviathan code off the valhalla).
16. grapple voltage - this is required in a lot of places. the biggest places I can think of are - it's required to take down the force field in command courtyard, it's required to get to the leviathan code on the valhalla, it's required to get in and out of the leviathan battleship, and it's required to plain use hyper grapple at all. I really cannot see it ever being skippable.
17. nova beam - this is only necessary in two places - to kill Omega Ridley and to get back out of the valhalla after getting the leviathan code. it's a bit of a stretch, but with a new valhalla SW or IS spot and hyper grapple skip, this should be skippable. the problem is there's kinda a third spot - a nova door on pirate homeworld in the room with the defense systems. you can get in through SWs and get back out through a morph ball tunnel, so just for plain skipping nova it's not an issue, but the morph ball tunnel forces you to pick up a missile expansion - so it wouldn't be a % drop.
18. hyper grapple - this is only needed in two places: getting out after using the leviathan command code, and the hyper grapple blob on phaaze. this is probably the next most likely item to be skipped. we'd need a way to clip back out after using the leviathan code and a SW in the first room of Phaaze; I want to go try the former some more later since I was able to clip back through in security tube, and the latter is actually feasible, though I wasn't able to get it to work.
so yep. Let's get cracking on hyper grapple skip, it's one of the only skips left that seems truly feasible... maybe if we could glitch up the scripts to trigger places early we could skip more, but it seems like a stretch for now.
Since this post, 3 items have been skipped, those are indicated by strikethrough in the above.
So where do the current developments leave us? With the discovery today that you can transition to spire from Escape Pod Bay, we're now down to 15% for Corruption Low%, with the items listed below.
1. Energy Tank - Not Skippable
2. Missile Launcher - Probably not Skippable since we need them for seekers
3. Grapple Lasso - Need it for Omega Ridley and Defense Drone at least, so probably not going anywhere anytime soon
4. PED - Uhhh probably not skippable? Not really sure what's limiting this since we don't need to get through Grand Court anymore, Corrupting yourself is optional and the only other thing that's necessary is the Hyper grapple points possibly? Either way we have no current way to skip it.
5. Boost Ball - Needed for not only most SWs on Elysia, but in a few other places as well.
6. Plasma Beam - Needed for Welding on spire, and plasma doors on PH.
7. Screw Attack - Technically skippable but requires more items to skip than to obtain
8. Xenoresearch Energy Cell - Needed for seekers and for on the Valhalla, since we need at least one Energy Cell for the lift
9. Seeker Missiles - Needed for Elysia Seed and X-Ray, seems the most likely item to skip next for me if we can find some way around the seed, X-Ray can probably be IS'd or obtained another way, but is needed.
10. Ship Missiles - Needed to access the PH seed. If we can skip Hyper Grapple, these can go as well.
11. Hyper Missiles - Only required since we have to defeat Helios to actually get to PH. Annoying really.
12. XRay Visor - Needed for Leviathan Code, and a couple of other XRay terminals, although I think most can be wallcrawled around somehow?
13. Grapple Voltage - Required to use Hyper Grapple, and a couple of other places (Leviathan code being the main one)
14. Nova Beam - Needed for Omega Ridley, and getting back off the Valhalla (Nova door is crawled past on the way in.)
15. Hyper Grapple - Needed in 2 places. Blob to get to the pirate command code, and the second room of Phaaze. People have been saying this is the next item that will get skipped for 5 years, and we've skipped 2 other grapple items instead so.... :P
So yeah 15%. Seems like the next thing to go if anything will be seekers, and a lot of other items are pinned down by either use in end-game or the chain of pre-requisites that creates.
Quote from TheMG2:
Quote from MLSTRM:
X-Ray can probably be IS'd or obtained another way, but is needed.
About this, IS was discovered today to obtainable in mp3 through the same method that works in mpwii, where the wall needs to be a certain height or you won't spin (or something, ask itspersonnal).
IS on Pirate Homeworld was already possible, right?
Quote from TheOthin:
Quote from TheMG2:
Quote from MLSTRM:
X-Ray can probably be IS'd or obtained another way, but is needed.
About this, IS was discovered today to obtainable in mp3 through the same method that works in mpwii, where the wall needs to be a certain height or you won't spin (or something, ask itspersonnal).
IS on Pirate Homeworld was already possible, right?
From what andy was saying earlier it's more of a lightshow setup than actual IS. It lets you skip the plasma door to command courtyard though, so that's interesting at least. Shame we still need it for welding.
Quote:
4. PED - Uhhh probably not skippable? Not really sure what's limiting this since we don't need to get through Grand Court anymore, Corrupting yourself is optional and the only other thing that's necessary is the Hyper grapple points possibly? Either way we have no current way to skip it.
Killing Helios
Quote from MLSTRM:
4. PED - Uhhh probably not skippable? Not really sure what's limiting this since we don't need to get through Grand Court anymore, Corrupting yourself is optional and the only other thing that's necessary is the Hyper grapple points possibly? Either way we have no current way to skip it.
Aside from basically every boss in the game, you mean?
Quote:
6. Plasma Beam - Needed for Welding on spire, and plasma doors on PH.
Also needed to pick up Screw Attack.
Quote:
12. XRay Visor - Needed for Leviathan Code, and a couple of other XRay terminals, although I think most can be wallcrawled around somehow?
The X-Ray consoles for the PH map station and the Leviathan battleship both unlock scripts that teleport Samus inside of the thing they block. We also know definitively by now that you can't complete the X-Ray sequence without having X-Ray visor on because the code that handles this has a special case specifically to prevent that from being possible. I would never have thought Grapple Swing or Ship Grapple would be skippable so never say never, but I'd be really really surprised if X-Ray ever ends up being skippable.
Quote:
14. Nova Beam - Needed for Omega Ridley, and getting back off the Valhalla (Nova door is crawled past on the way in.)
It's also needed for leaving the pirate command center in low%. (If you don't care about low%, there's a morph ball tunnel you can use as an alternate exit, but that forces you to pick up a missile.)
Quote:
15. Hyper Grapple - Needed in 2 places. Blob to get to the pirate command code, and the second room of Phaaze. People have been saying this is the next item that will get skipped for 5 years, and we've skipped 2 other grapple items instead so.... :P
Andy came very close to finding a SW in the Phaaze landing site so this is still a very close skip. We just need a way back out of the PH hyper blob. The main problem is that skipping Hyper Grapple would make Phaaze in low% a total pain in the ass because Hyper Grapple is actually very useful for that section of the game. (Unless the game only bothers checking if you have Grapple Voltage for that, which is possible since Phaaz-Ing do show up outside of Phaaze.)
By the way, about the Theronian Bomb skip: considering that no one has
A. done it on console
B. done it at the point in the game where you'd need to do it
C. actually completed a playthrough without Ship Grapple
Don't count 15% as a sure thing.
Quote from Parax:
Quote:
12. XRay Visor - Needed for Leviathan Code, and a couple of other XRay terminals, although I think most can be wallcrawled around somehow?
The X-Ray consoles for the PH map station and the Leviathan battleship both unlock scripts that teleport Samus inside of the thing they block. We also know definitively by now that you can't complete the X-Ray sequence without having X-Ray visor on because the code that handles this has a special case specifically to prevent that from being possible. I would never have thought Grapple Swing or Ship Grapple would be skippable so never say never, but I'd be really really surprised if X-Ray ever ends up being skippable.
The battleship yeah true enough I don't think we're getting around that one, but the map station potentially isn't necessary if you can wallcrawl to Transit Station 3-B from Command Courtyard (Something I've been thinking about but never actually tried), since you would then never require the landing site on research?