Super Metroid - 0:31 SS by Hotarubi!

namespoofer

Edit history:

namespoofer: 2009-05-20 12:26:11 pm

2009-05-20 12:22:43 pm

Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.

Quote from Reeve:

Does anybody know what is exactly Hotarubi's in-game time?
I mean his time is "00:31:??"?

Quote:

Yes.

Quote from JaggerG:

Namespoofer: Don't spam.

Quote from Kriole:

Real men can get below 0:42 without savestates... It says so in the bible.

Logic Fail? I'm confused.

Edit: Rofl, Kriole set me straight, obviously I fail at reading. Either way, my secondary point remains valid.

JaggerG

2009-05-20 02:47:55 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Oh, heh, I think he's asking the seconds he got in his :31. I figured you meant you could tell the amount of seconds, but chose not to out of laziness. I guess that had just been a misunderstanding.

namespoofer

2009-05-20 02:53:05 pm

Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.

Quote from JaggerG:

Oh, heh, I think he's asking the seconds he got in his :31. I figured you meant you could tell the amount of seconds, but chose not to out of laziness. I guess that had just been a misunderstanding.

Yesss, I missed the colon and thought he was asking a retarded question.. Haha then when I told Kriole over MSN, he shut me down and told me how retarded my post was...

Fudge.

Reeve

2009-05-21 07:52:30 pm

When Hotarubi is fighting Botwoon, he goes to the pause screen right after begining to charge the PBWave. Does he do it just to get the right time to hit Botwoon or there is another reason?

Smokey

2009-05-23 03:12:12 pm

Well, finally got that :30. yay to me I guess.

I couldn't record it because recording these TASes just makes me anxious and always end up with something crappy at the end. I'll give you guys an attachment of the last savestate. Took a full afternoon to play using only savestates and overall just taking my time, without the stress of recording. Ok, key points:

- Took Saturn's route exactly.
* Two-round Phantoon with his fastest attack-patterns before/after wave beam-combo. Guess I got lucky.
- Amazing manipulation of refill drops.
- No MB glitch.

So that's about it. If I see anyone with a :30-console _with nothing amazingly new in it_; have fun fooling someone else.

I'm done with this game. Hope you guys keep finding newer stuff about it ;)

Quote from Reeve:

When Hotarubi is fighting Botwoon, he goes to the pause screen right after begining to charge the PBWave. Does he do it just to get the right time to hit Botwoon or there is another reason?

Yes, he does that to hit him at the right time. Although I don't know what kind of timing he uses; I use the background music to find the right time to charge/pause.

Well, finally got that :30. yay to me I guess.

I couldn't record it because recording these TASes just makes me anxious and always end up with something crappy at the end. I'll give you guys an attachment of the last savestate. Took a full afternoon to play using only savestates and overall just taking my time, without the stress of recording. Ok, key points:

- Took Saturn's route exactly.
* Two-round Phantoon with his fastest attack-patterns before/after wave beam-combo. Guess I got lucky.
- Amazing manipulation of refill drops.
- No MB glitch.

So that's about it. If I see anyone with a :30-console _with nothing amazingly new in it_; have fun fooling someone else.

I'm done with this game. Hope you guys keep finding newer stuff about it ;)

[quote="Reeve"]
When Hotarubi is fighting Botwoon, he goes to the pause screen right after begining to charge the PBWave. Does he do it just to get the right time to hit Botwoon or there is another reason?
[/quote]

Yes, he does that to hit him at the right time. Although I don't know what kind of timing he uses; I use the background music to find the right time to charge/pause.

attachment:

Super_Metroid.000

Saturn

2009-05-23 06:02:56 pm

Wow, that's a incredible time you got there, Smokey! You actually ended up being only ~20 seconds away of 0:29, and the fact that you didn't even use Murder Beam on MB to accomplish that makes it even more awesome.

It's unfortunate you didn't record this run though, as it would surely be an awesome watch the way you described it, and would probably have some interesting realtime tricks (otherwise it's hard to explain how you managed to get this crazy time) that could be useful for any speedrunner.

Anyway, congrats on this amazing achievement.

Tyjet66

2009-05-23 11:54:32 pm

What'd you say?

My god Smokey, you are amazing, to bad you didn't record it.

Congrats! Applause

Take that Hotarubi!

JaggerG

2009-05-24 10:27:12 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from tyjet66:

Take that Hotarubi!

Huh? As far as I could tell he's not racing Hotarubi. These are different conditions. It's not like Smokey is ever gonna brag that his best time in Super Metroid is :30 to anyone. :^/

Tyjet66

2009-05-24 06:18:10 pm

What'd you say?

I know, I just want to see him beat that. aiwebs_008

Smokey

2009-05-25 03:17:44 pm

Thanks, Saturn/tyjet. BTW I'm not trying to race him as per se, like Jagger said. I'm just using tools to see what could be the absolute limit anyone could reach in real-time without doing the slightest of errors (which comes my reason to ABSOLUTELY doubt it will ever be achieved on console, honestly). And yeah, this will never be a record to brag about. My best will always be :35 SS.

Ok, now I've finally recorded that 0:30. I did this one with every single trick and included the double kagoball/pre-Ridley glitch just for the sake of completeness (plus no MBeam). Again, I'd say a *very quick* Phantoon fight plus not doing a single stop to collect refills is gonna get you a time like this. Finally, I really don't know if I can get any better than this. Still, hope you guys like it.

attachment:

Super_Metroid30.smv

Cpadolf

2009-05-25 04:41:26 pm

Almost happy

Hmm, you do have 30 seconds to go up to 00:31 though, and you don't do anything not possible on console, and there are rooms which definitely could be done faster (for example, the first two metroid rooms, if you have a little better luck with supers, and draygon). So this makes me believe that it definitely is within the reach of human skill to do this on console. Just ridiculously hard, because of the consistency (and luck) needed. So it will probably never get done, but I still think it might, at least if someone decides to invest a year or so of intense playing into it.

EDIT: Also murder beam. So there's another 10 seconds or so to spare.

072

2009-05-25 07:35:00 pm

coral to complement blue

Doesn't murder beam save more like 20 seconds? Also, delaying ice beam, and the LN wrap-around shinespark for another 5-10 seconds...

Cpadolf

2009-05-25 07:44:01 pm

Almost happy

No, it's about 10.

Smokey

2009-05-25 08:35:43 pm

I definitely won't step in your way ;). But given those reasons (consistency+luck) you mentioned is why I think this can't really be doable on a console. Maybe I'm just being the less optimistic here, but afterall I have my reasons.

Also, I couldn't find any advantage from delaying ice. I tried climbing the red Brinstar shaft without it and the experience was really a major pain in the ass, plus you still have to get it anyways. Console-conditions, I think it's better off just collecting ice on the first trip rather than just ignoring it way earlier, IMO.

Saturn

2009-05-25 08:51:01 pm

Amazing run Smokey.

Pure move precision for realtime conditions all around, and I doubt to have seen anything better than that so far.
You are definitely on par with hotarubi with this skills, the more surprising that your best is 0:35 SS, and with it the more understanding your scepsis towards sub 0:33 console runs. Seems that it's indeed just the incredible consistency that hotarubi has to pull the times off he did after all, as there just can't be any other explanation for the differences in console conditions between you two.

Btw, if you wait for Draygon to fully come out of the wall before shinesparking him, you can avoid some damage off his body after the crash. This could save some energy to eventually allow for a uninterrupted shinespark back from his lair. :-)

And yeah, RB shaft without Ice is very risky, and will in any case end up slower without Ice due to at least one forced drop after shooting the top block, which I think will already equal the slight delay to get it early.

Amazing run Smokey.

Pure move precision for realtime conditions all around, and I doubt to have seen anything better than that so far. 
You are definitely on par with hotarubi with this skills, the more surprising that your best is 0:35 SS, and with it the more understanding your scepsis towards sub 0:33 console runs. Seems that it's indeed just the incredible consistency that hotarubi has to pull the times off he did after all, as there just can't be any other explanation for the differences in console conditions between you two.

Btw, if you wait for Draygon to fully come out of the wall before shinesparking him, you can avoid some damage off his body after the crash. This could save some energy to eventually allow for a uninterrupted shinespark back from his lair. :-)

And yeah, RB shaft without Ice is very risky, and will in any case end up slower without Ice due to at least one forced drop after shooting the top block, which I think will already equal the slight delay to get it early.

Quietus

2009-05-26 04:25:08 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

There isn't a drop in that shaft any more, as Hotarubi (and others) use the 'hero shot', and negotiate it in one trip. Unless you're on about something else?

Cpadolf

2009-05-26 04:52:10 am

Almost happy

Indeed, you just have to de-equip spazer and that should definitely be possible (especially since you have hi-jump at this point).

Reeve

2009-05-26 04:00:35 pm

If I use the Murder Beam on Mother Brain (2nd phase) does it save any time or it's better if i use the Plasma Beam?

Quietus

2009-05-26 05:02:57 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

About three posts back - about 10 seconds quicker to use murder beam.

Smokey

2009-05-26 05:06:04 pm

Thanks. The most notable errors were after I exit both the Torizo's room and Ridley's energy tank room, and of course that pesky shinespark at Draygon's lair. Seeing that this is a mid :30, and considering I didn't do those errors in my previous :30 (plus I tested it with and w/o MBeam), :29 seems way beyond my reach at this point.

Saturn, what really helped me get that :35 were many enemy/spike boosts and a quicker Draygon fight. Other than that just different room strats. I thought that was the shit at that time, but if I do a couple of things from the :30 on console/segmented, I'm sure a :34-:33 would be no problem.

Saturn

2009-05-27 04:32:35 pm

I wouldn't call a 0:29 impossible, Smokey. Your previous, non-recorded 0:30 would be only ~10 seconds away if you'd use Murder Beam, which over the entire run should be possible to catch up if doing great effort to optimize the moves and boss strategies slightly more (even though it'll for sure be hard, as there isn't much room left seeing the precision in your last 0:30).

And I agree that a sub 0:34 console run should definitely be reachable if you'd use the latest tricks/strats with some consistency, even in a single-segment.

Btw, I just did another savestate run for 100% (and recently another unassisted 0:58 SS for that matter, but that's not related) to see the limits in that mode. Got a solid mid 0:48, which again is much better than I expected to get with my skill. I even managed to execute the pre-Draygon shinespark and the LN speedball at normal speed (but admittedly had to retry this 2 tricks many many times until getting them to work), so this time the run is to 100% played in realtime. :-)

It also uses a route that I believe to be the the most optimal for unassisted conditions, by delaying Ice until LN as suggested, and clearing the RB shaft with the "hero shot", which indeed is easily possible with HJ-Boots (though still somewhat risky compared to the Ice strategy).

Recorded on Snes9x 1.43 v12, as usual.

Enjoy!

I wouldn't call a 0:29 impossible, Smokey. Your previous, non-recorded 0:30 would be only ~10 seconds away if you'd use Murder Beam, which over the entire run should be possible to catch up if doing great effort to optimize the moves and boss strategies slightly more (even though it'll for sure be hard, as there isn't much room left seeing the precision in your last 0:30).

And I agree that a sub 0:34 console run should definitely be reachable if you'd use the latest tricks/strats with some consistency, even in a single-segment.

Btw, I just did another savestate run for 100% (and recently another unassisted 0:58 SS for that matter, but that's not related) to see the limits in that mode. Got a solid mid 0:48, which again is much better than I expected to get with my skill. I even managed to execute the pre-Draygon shinespark and the LN speedball at normal speed (but admittedly had to retry this 2 tricks many many times until getting them to work), so this time the run is to 100% played in realtime. :-)

It also uses a route that I believe to be the the most optimal for unassisted conditions, by delaying Ice until LN as suggested, and clearing the RB shaft with the "hero shot", which indeed is easily possible with HJ-Boots (though still somewhat risky compared to the Ice strategy).

Recorded on [url=http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9x-1.43-improvement12-win32.zip]Snes9x 1.43 v12[/url], as usual.

Enjoy!

attachment:

Saturn - SM 100% in 48 - Savestate run v1.zip

Smokey

2009-05-27 10:19:13 pm

Wow, I completely immersed myself in any% runs and totally forgot about 100%'s.

Impressive work Saturn, although I'm sure you know you could have done some rooms way faster. Also, I'm not sure if you know this but I'll say it anyways; in the first Brinstar/super missile pack room, if you stand on the far left side of the ledge, you can make enough speed to perform a mockball without the need to exit the room.

My 100% route memory is very blurry at this moment but, is there an alternate route besides the one you used? I think a few items from Brinstar could've been collected earlier without a second trip (such as Spore Spawn's sm). Maybe I'm wrong about this, since I'm completely lacking of knowledge at this department.

BTW, congrats on your personal :58 :)

Saturn

2009-05-28 01:07:43 pm

Thank you. Yeah, I know that some rooms can be done somewhat faster, but that was the best (or nearly) I could pull off in realtime. Or do you mean, aside of the general precision, that I used bad/slow strategies in some of them as well? If that's the case, could you list some examples for analyzing, please?

Regarding the 1st Super Missile room, the problem is that once you pick the crumble Missile first, you already trigger the first gate to close, so you have to reenter the room no matter what. It's still considerably faster to do than going for the Super Missile first, and backtrack to the red door again.

As for the 100% route, there is an alternative to pick the RB PBs first. It saves a backtrack to Kraid's Lair for the PB Missile, as well as speeding the green bubble Norfair room up a bit by dropping through the PB shortcut. But IMO the detour to the early PBs equals this 2 delays, so it shouldn't make much of a difference in the end. Of course there is also a option to delay Croc until LN, like Scarlet did, but I'm not sure whether the somewhat faster fight and navigation through his Lair with Space Jump could make up for the long backtrack to the green gate Missile. Could be close again. And of course there is this strange 100% route hotarubi used in a savestate run of himself (smv is available here), and even though he got 0:47, I would say it's just because of the much faster navigation, not the route itself.

Thank you. Yeah, I know that some rooms can be done somewhat faster, but that was the best (or nearly) I could pull off in realtime. Or do you mean, aside of the general precision, that I used bad/slow strategies in some of them as well? If that's the case, could you list some examples for analyzing, please?

Regarding the 1st Super Missile room, the problem is that once you pick the crumble Missile first, you already trigger the first gate to close, so you have to reenter the room no matter what. It's still considerably faster to do than going for the Super Missile first, and backtrack to the red door again.

As for the 100% route, there is an alternative to pick the RB PBs first. It saves a backtrack to Kraid's Lair for the PB Missile, as well as speeding the green bubble Norfair room up a bit by dropping through the PB shortcut. But IMO the detour to the early PBs equals this 2 delays, so it shouldn't make much of a difference in the end. Of course there is also a option to delay Croc until LN, like Scarlet did, but I'm not sure whether the somewhat faster fight and navigation through his Lair with Space Jump could make up for the long backtrack to the green gate Missile. Could be close again. And of course there is this strange 100% route hotarubi used in a savestate run of himself (smv is available [url=http://www9.atwiki.jp/catnap222/?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=9&file=Super+Metroid+100%25run+by+hotarubi.zip]here[/url]),  and even though he got 0:47, I would say it's just because of the much faster navigation, not the route itself.

Reeve

2009-05-28 08:05:08 pm

Well done Saturn!
It's a very interesting route you used. I was thinking about using the same route but picking the ice early. It's a very good ideia to climb the shaft the way you did. Once you know that some rooms can be done faster, i saw two other things as a delay:

1. The Missile before the Grapple. You could get the Grapple first and use the Super Short Charge, walljump the left wall and shinespark right to the missile.

2. It's to use the Super Short Charge in the bottom of the First Maridia Missile area.

Anyway it was as very good speedrun.
Now i'm trying the Any% Speedrun Using just savestates like you and Smokey did, i think next week it will be finished. I think i can get at least 30 min, and after i'll try the 100% with only savestates.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2009-05-28 10:02:36 pm

2009-05-28 09:40:35 pm

Sure. I'll try to list some. Oh and BTW, try using more the shoulder buttons when you're about to land on ledges, to take better advantage of Samus' hitbox.

(frames first)

18550 - you missed a jump here. I know these platforms are evil, but I didn't get why you continued without fixing this.

23200 - Same here. Those two combined can easily add you 5 secs.

52700 - hotarubi's mockball here to clear the next room. A bit tricky, and might take a few tries.

Up until Croc - I still think having the Plasma here to kill Croc faster + space jump is gonna make up for the time taken to do Croc first and to collect that green gate missile pack (no need to use grapple since you'd have space jump). After this, you just proceed to beat up Croc or go to LN, depending which one you did first.

81575 - you could've waited for the mockball ;)

82450 - I'd say a spike boost here is quicker. You cancel the wait for the shinespark animation.

93900 - make sure you select the sm's beforehand so this don't happen. I think I saw this a few times throughout the vid.

140500 - probably an enemy-boost here is more effective.

147580 - This is the Brisntar part that got me confused. I'm wasn't sure if opening the yellow door and getting the rest of the items was faster than just doing it later. But your decision of doing so later got me convinced after a second view.

Draygon's fight - a single round with super missiles would've been faster, considering the abundance you had at your disposal.

229980 - liking the boost here.

Reeve: Nice. Hoping to see your results soon.

Sure. I'll try to list some. Oh and BTW, try using more the shoulder buttons when you're about to land on ledges, to take better advantage of Samus' hitbox.

(frames first)

18550 - you missed a jump here. I know these platforms are evil, but I didn't get why you continued without fixing this.

23200 - Same here. Those two combined can easily add you 5 secs.

52700 - hotarubi's mockball here to clear the next room. A bit tricky, and might take a few tries.

Up until Croc - I still think having the Plasma here to kill Croc faster + space jump is gonna make up for the time taken to do Croc first and to collect that green gate missile pack (no need to use grapple since you'd have space jump). After this, you just proceed to beat up Croc or go to LN, depending which one you did first.

81575 - you could've waited for the mockball ;)

82450 - I'd say a spike boost here is quicker. You cancel the wait for the shinespark animation.

93900 - make sure you select the sm's beforehand so this don't happen. I think I saw this a few times throughout the vid.

140500 - probably an enemy-boost here is more effective.

147580 - This is the Brisntar part that got me confused. I'm wasn't sure if opening the yellow door and getting the rest of the items was faster than just doing it later. But your decision of doing so later got me convinced after a second view.

Draygon's fight - a single round with super missiles would've been faster, considering the abundance you had at your disposal.

229980 - liking the boost here.

Reeve: Nice. Hoping to see your results soon.