Super Metroid - 0:31 SS by Hotarubi!

Edit history:

Saturn: 2009-05-29 06:25:44 pm

2009-05-29 06:16:53 pm

Reeve:
Both of this strategies (but especially the Maridia mainstreet Missile one) would require a extremely good short charge, one that I didn't master in realtime yet due to the very precise timing of the dash button presses it needs in order to work. If you can get this charge with good consistency, then it's of course the way to go.

Also, good luck with your runs.

Smokey:
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm aware of the unspin move to land on platforms faster, but due to the larger hitbox there is also a small risk to miss them and fall back down again, and without the possibility to quickly correct it with a walljump again. That's basicly the reason I avoid it in some cases.

As for the frame-numbers,

18550+23200+52700:
Very true. Guess I was just too lazy and didn't bother to redo the early rooms too much, knowing how much work was still ahead. Besides the delay from all 3 wouldn't be that big IMO anyway, while especially the 3rd was very risky overall, as it not only required very good mockball-timing, but also a precise jump shot to open the door early.

81575:
The so called "Smokey mockball", I know. :-P Reason was again the risk to screw up, while the tech I did is dead-safe and nearly same fast anyways.

82450:
True. I have no idea why I didn't try it. Probably just a quick decision to use the easier way once again.

93900:
Yeah, it happened more times throughout the run, as I always have troubles reaching the select button while doing other moves at the same time. I should probably practice this a bit more.

140500:
Already too used to the usual jump, I guess.

Draygon:
I could easily kill him in one less round with Supers right after the spark, but that way you will miss the blue suit. The exit shinespark will surely save more time in the end, and the additional Supers will speed up the Ridley fight (seeing that I still required all of them).

229980:
That was actually a spontaneous one. Not 100% sure if it's faster though.

Btw, did you guys know that it's possible to record a ghost of your runs and compare it to other attempts, similarly as in time trial modes in racing games? Amaurea from TASvideos wrote a lua script that makes this possible.

All it requires is a later version of the Snes9x 1.43 series such as this one that has a build in lua script option, a movie file of the run you want to create the ghost of, and 2 script files (a player.lua and a recorder.lua) that are attached below.

That way you can compare multiple smv-runs with each other, or even battle your own or other ghost runs on the fly while playing. It has the option to compare the runs the usual way, or in a much higher recommended synchronised room entry mode while displaying the frame differences between each room.

I thought this could be just the thing for some of the SM-speedrunner here, so if you're interested give it a try. More detailed instructions are in the readme.txt that is included in the zip.

EDIT:
Oh and I forgot to mention, so far it only has a 1 ingame hour limit to record the ghost, so be sure to break the hour mark if you wish to compare 100% runs. :-)

Reeve:
Both of this strategies (but especially the Maridia mainstreet Missile one) would require a extremely good short charge, one that I didn't master in realtime yet due to the very precise timing of the dash button presses it needs in order to work. If you can get this charge with good consistency, then it's of course the way to go.

Also, good luck with your runs.

Smokey:
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm aware of the unspin move to land on platforms faster, but due to the larger hitbox there is also a small risk to miss them and fall back down again, and without the possibility to quickly correct it with a walljump again. That's basicly the reason I avoid it in some cases.

As for the frame-numbers,

18550+23200+52700:
Very true. Guess I was just too lazy and didn't bother to redo the early rooms too much, knowing how much work was still ahead. Besides the delay from all 3 wouldn't be that big IMO anyway, while especially the 3rd was very risky overall, as it not only required very good mockball-timing, but also a precise jump shot to open the door early.

81575:
The so called "Smokey mockball", I know. :-P   Reason was again the risk to screw up, while the tech I did is dead-safe and nearly same fast anyways.

82450:
True. I have no idea why I didn't try it. Probably just a quick decision to use the easier way once again.

93900:
Yeah, it happened more times throughout the run, as I always have troubles reaching the select button while doing other moves at the same time. I should probably practice this a bit more.

140500:
Already too used to the usual jump, I guess.

Draygon:
I could easily kill him in one less round with Supers right after the spark, but that way you will miss the blue suit. The exit shinespark will surely save more time in the end, and the additional Supers will speed up the Ridley fight (seeing that I still required all of them).

229980:
That was actually a spontaneous one. Not 100% sure if it's faster though.

Btw, did you guys know that it's possible to record a ghost of your runs and compare it to other attempts, similarly as in time trial modes in racing games? Amaurea from TASvideos wrote a lua script that makes this possible.

All it requires is a later version of the Snes9x 1.43 series such as [url=http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9x-1.43-improvement12-win32.zip]this one[/url] that has a build in lua script option, a movie file of the run you want to create the ghost of, and 2 script files (a player.lua and a recorder.lua) that are attached below.

That way you can compare multiple smv-runs with each other, or even battle your own or other ghost runs on the fly while playing. It has the option to compare the runs the usual way, or in a much higher recommended synchronised room entry mode while displaying the frame differences between each room.

I thought this could be just the thing for some of the SM-speedrunner here, so if you're interested give it a try. More detailed instructions are in the readme.txt that is included in the zip.

EDIT:
Oh and I forgot to mention, so far it only has a 1 ingame hour limit to record the ghost, so be sure to break the hour mark if you wish to compare 100% runs. :-)

attachment:

Super Metroid Ghost Script.zip

Smokey

2009-05-30 02:04:54 pm

Overall, it was an excellent speedrun. You still managed to finish it close to hotarubi's time, which is just damn impressive. I recently found out that Draygon can be killed in just 2 rounds with a timed third shinespark, so that'd be like 5 secs saved there. I will try to record another run sometime later anyways.

With this + MBeam + fixing those minimal errors from the :30, I'm certain that :29 is reachable with savestates.

Reeve

2009-05-30 03:12:27 pm

I found it too today early, i killed him very quickly in 2 rounds but the third shinespark is very risky to do in a console. I had to try a lot of times cause every time i use the third shinespark, Samus was killed or the remaining life wasn't enough to shinespark the Great pre-Draygon room. I'm almost in Ridley and i think tomorrow my run will be finished.

Cpadolf

2009-05-30 06:28:06 pm

Almost happy

Quote from Smokey:

Draygon can be killed in just 2 rounds with a timed third shinespark, so that'd be like 5 secs saved there. I will try to record another run sometime later anyways.

With decent precision you only need two shinesparks. The first one needs to be really good, which might be a little hard, but for the second one I think the best way is to charge the shinespark and then jump over him as he is flying by spitting crap at you, and then shinespark into him in his direction of movement. Not only does this make it easier to do a lot of damage with the spark, you also end up on the right side of him, so you can imideately turn around and finish him of with missiles and supers.

Reeve

2009-05-30 07:26:04 pm

Quote from Cpadolf:

Quote from Smokey:

Draygon can be killed in just 2 rounds with a timed third shinespark, so that'd be like 5 secs saved there. I will try to record another run sometime later anyways.

With decent precision you only need two shinesparks. The first one needs to be really good, which might be a little hard, but for the second one I think the best way is to charge the shinespark and then jump over him as he is flying by spitting crap at you, and then shinespark into him in his direction of movement. Not only does this make it easier to do a lot of damage with the spark, you also end up on the right side of him, so you can imideately turn around and finish him of with missiles and supers.

Yes, but i think the meaning is to have the Blue Suit. So when Draygon apears you Shinespark into him, and when he apears again you Shinespark into him again and he is still on screen. To Finish him i think 4 Super Missiles are enough, but you lose the chance to have the Blue Suit. If you use the Third shinespark you will have the Blue Suit and will save your Super Missiles for later.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
[quote="Smokey"]Draygon can be killed in just 2 rounds with a timed third shinespark, so that'd be like 5 secs saved there. I will try to record another run sometime later anyways.[/quote]

With decent precision you only need two shinesparks. The first one needs to be really good, which might be a little hard, but for the second one I think the best way is to charge the shinespark and then jump over him as he is flying by spitting crap at you, and then shinespark into him in his direction of movement. Not only does this make it easier to do a lot of damage with the spark, you also end up on the right side of him, so you can imideately turn around and finish him of with missiles and supers.
[/quote]

Yes, but i think the meaning is to have the Blue Suit. So when Draygon apears you Shinespark into him, and when he apears again you Shinespark into him again and he is still on screen. To Finish him i think 4 Super Missiles are enough, but you lose the chance to have the Blue Suit. If you use the Third shinespark you will have the Blue Suit and will save your Super Missiles for later.

Smokey

2009-05-30 10:36:43 pm

Yeah, pretty much what Reeve said.

UPDATE: XD my recent :29/savestate vid is below. By the looks of it, the result was a very high :29. Every boss battle was done to the small detail, likely what really made this possible. Pretty much exactly like the :30 vid, but with everything fixed.

Now I can finally say this should be theoretically the limit (if nothing new is discovered) on the console. Maybe afterall, 3 years were well spent investigating this. So I agree, Saturn with what you said earlier. My only conclusion at this point regarding hota's time would be just the incredible consistency I refused to accept... something I'll probably never achieve.

so yeah, hats off to him. NOW I'm done with Super Metroid! :D

attachment:

Smokey_SM_in_29.smv

Tyjet66

2009-05-30 11:07:13 pm

What'd you say?

Quote from Smokey:

NOW I'm done with Super Metroid!

Sorry to hear that Smokey. Crying or Very sad

But that :29 is amazing!

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2009-05-31 01:00:26 pm

2009-05-31 09:37:48 am

Quote from Smokey:

NOW I'm done with Super Metroid! :D

Hope you change your mind Smokey.
I think there's still a lot to found in SM and i'd like you to share this.

I finally made my own run of Super Metroid, and i did well.
My final time is 0:29 too and i used just my abillities and savestates.
The bosses strategies were very well, almost like smokey did.
Some tricks are the same and some diferents, i think they are the fastest way to pass some rooms/bosses (till now).
The route used is the same Saturn sugested and Smokey used.
The Link to the smv is below, hope you like it.
I used Snes9x 1.43 improvement 15.

Re: Thanks for the hint Smokey.

attachment:

Reeve_SM_in_29.smv

Smokey

2009-05-31 12:22:07 pm

Wow, Reeve that was pretty impressive. You definitely have the skill there. Even though you did a few things out of order in some rooms (which I know that should be a 'trademark' among runners) you did some that weren't optimal.

By seeing your style of play (and with better luck with refills), it'd have been better optimized. But what the hell, that doesn't matter; your :29 was equally high as mine. So, congrats with this amazing run.

As for me changing my mind, I always do. Sometimes I retire from this game for a long time due to college work. But once in a while, if something new is discovered, I always say 'yeah, that'd be fun to do in a speedrun', and always get back into it.

BTW, whenever you want to attach a file to your post, there's an option at the left side below the message box that says 'additional options'.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2009-06-01 12:50:58 pm

2009-06-01 12:39:05 pm

Thanks, I think your run was faster than mine, and i only got 0:29 because of the refills that i manipulated and the Murder Beam. Thinking of a console run, your style of play is the best cause you can't count with luck all the time. I was trying to use the Ghost Script to compare our runs and see where i can and how i can improve it, but it didn't work for me. Maybe Saturn could give me a hint, don't know if i'm doing anything wrong. Anyway, could you explain me that "Trademark", point me what i did wrong and what i did right? I know i could use more the Shouder Pumping, but if there's more i'd be thankfull if you point me the way.

Saturn

2009-06-01 05:45:56 pm

Incredible runs guys. If you wonder about the seconds of them, Smokey managed a 29:53, and Reeve a crazy 29:59 that is only 2 tiny frames away before switching to 0:30.

Highlight for me in both runs was the Draygon strategy of course. Very clever idea to get the 3rd charge below Draygon just barely. I always knew it should be possible, but never bothered to give it a try due to laziness. :-(
And of course excellent precision in them once again. Now I agree with you, Smokey, that 0:29 seems to be very likely the limit for realtime conditions.

Reeve:
To use the ghost script, you have to firstly put both script files and the movies in one folder. Then you have to open the script files in a text editor and indicate the names of the smv files you want to use for this (more info about it in the 3rd message of the readme).

To run the script files you have to use a proper Snes9x version. The Super Metroid ROM must be loaded first, then just go to "File" ---> "Run Lua Script" and load the scripts (recorder to create the ghost, player to playback it).

Incredible runs guys. If you wonder about the seconds of them, Smokey managed a 29:53, and Reeve a crazy 29:59 that is only 2 tiny frames away before switching to 0:30.

Highlight for me in both runs was the Draygon strategy of course. Very clever idea to get the 3rd charge below Draygon just barely. I always knew it should be possible, but never bothered to give it a try due to laziness. :-(
And of course excellent precision in them once again. Now I agree with you, Smokey, that 0:29 seems to be very likely the limit for realtime conditions.

Reeve:
To use the ghost script, you have to firstly put both script files and the movies in one folder. Then you have to open the script files in a text editor and indicate the names of the smv files you want to use for this (more info about it in the 3rd message of the readme).

To run the script files you have to use a [url=http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9x-1.43-improvement12-win32.zip]proper[/url] Snes9x version. The Super Metroid ROM must be loaded first, then just go to "File" ---> "Run Lua Script" and load the scripts (recorder to create the ghost, player to playback it).

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2009-06-01 08:20:59 pm

2009-06-01 08:17:09 pm

Thanks Saturn, now i understood the Ghost Script.
Man, that's unbelievable what you said, only two frames from 0:30???
Playing the ghost of my run and Smokey's i see that the most of rooms Smokey was faster, but in a few i was better. It's very interesting this Ghost Script stuff, you can test lots of things to know the fastest way to cross the rooms. I think if you join the best parts of my run and Smokey's you could get a 29:40 or a bit less. But it's still far from 0:28, and unless some new tricks are discovered it will be impossible that a realtime speedrunner can get at least 0:29. I will study more the two runs and go for the 100% run, now i just want to rest.

horscht(i)

2009-06-03 02:55:04 pm

defrag in progress

So we can conclude that :29 is the limit for any% runs, but needs extraordinary consistency?
Just for the non-speedrunners among us.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2009-06-04 12:03:12 pm

2009-06-03 08:25:39 pm

I don't think there's a lot you can do to improve it. I will say that there were some occasions where you didn't take full advantage of Samus' hitbox (shoulder button when landing on ledges). Try always to calculate the height of your jump, so you land right at the ledge and not a *bit* higher. That way when you press the shoulder button, you will reach a standing position right away.

Aside of that, not much. Your play was excellent. Even though this has nothing to do with the in-game timer; try to pause less times and just be sure when and where it's the right time to do so. This will mainly lessen your overall time instead of in-game time.

I hope you continue doing any% runs just so we can discuss them more. I'll try to take tomorrow morning to study your run more because you definitely did some rooms better, so that way I can combine them in a future run (just for perfection purposes, I know I will still get a high :29). Oh, and good luck with the 100%.

Quote from horscht(i):

So we can conclude that :29 is the limit for any% runs, but needs extraordinary consistency? Just for the non-speedrunners among us.

That's correct. I will say a :29 needs extraordinary consistency only for a save-state run, though. Not just the incredible consistency but also the great amount of luck needed when it comes to refills (supers and power bombs mostly), Phantoon's fight pattern (which has to be his fastest) or Draygon's third shinespark in the second round. Even if you have the consistency and fail to do just one of the previous scenarios, you're not gonna get :29.

I highly doubt :29 will ever get done on console unless some newer stuff are discovered, like Reeve said. A mess will always be inevitable in realplay, and the consistency just can't be there to this point. That it can be done in essence in real-time? Sure, at least two people have done it so far, but is it doable in unassisted play? I don't think so.

I don't think there's a lot you can do to improve it. I will say that there were some occasions where you didn't take full advantage of Samus' hitbox (shoulder button when landing on ledges). Try always to calculate the height of your jump, so you land right at the ledge and not a *bit* higher. That way when you press the shoulder button, you will reach a standing position right away.

Aside of that, not much. Your play was excellent. Even though this has nothing to do with the in-game timer; try to pause less times and just be sure when and where it's the right time to do so. This will mainly lessen your overall time instead of in-game time.

I hope you continue doing any% runs just so we can discuss them more. I'll try to take tomorrow morning to study your run more because you definitely did some rooms better, so that way I can combine them in a future run (just for perfection purposes, I know I will still get a high :29). Oh, and good luck with the 100%.

[quote="horscht(i)"]
So we can conclude that :29 is the limit for any% runs, but needs extraordinary consistency? Just for the non-speedrunners among us.
[/quote]

That's correct. I will say a :29 needs extraordinary consistency only for a save-state run, though. Not just the incredible consistency but also the great amount of luck needed when it comes to refills (supers and power bombs mostly), Phantoon's fight pattern (which has to be his fastest) or Draygon's third shinespark in the second round. Even if you have the consistency and fail to do just one of the previous scenarios, you're not gonna get :29.

I highly doubt :29 will ever get done on console unless some newer stuff are discovered, like Reeve said. A mess will always be inevitable in realplay, and the consistency just can't be there to this point. That it can be done in essence in real-time? Sure, at least two people have done it so far, but is it doable in unassisted play? I don't think so.

Reeve

2009-06-04 03:38:15 pm

Yeah, i really have to train this landing stuff, it's a little hard but with some training i can be better. I used the pause button after the Phantoon fight just to get better refills, but i'll try to reduce the times i use it, thanks for the hints.

Sure i'll continue the any% runs and we'll discuss them any time you want, to be honest i think i'll let the 100% for later and will try to optimize the any% with the Ghost Script. Don't know if you're using this to compare our runs but if don't, hope you try it a little, it's a very usefull tool.

Tonski

2009-06-09 05:02:13 pm

00:29 with only savestates... Damn.

I would like to see a sub-30 SS any% on speeddemosarchive some day.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2009-06-11 03:36:55 pm

2009-06-11 03:29:58 pm

If you'll excuse me, I'll bring hotarubi's consistency topic back.

After mildly familiarizing myself with the way Japanese people play games competitively (through arcade culture, mostly), I can't be surprised by something like that anymore. The thing is, they play the games they choose to compete in a lot. They play them pretty much every day, sometimes several hours a day, and world-class results usually start to appear after they have spent at least a thousand hours on a single game (that's about a thousand SS attempts at SM; if you were making two each day every day on average, you'd need to be playing the game this intensively for almost 1.4 years). There are many features of Japanese society which contribute to such lifestyle, including very leveled day routines and little social interaction (many (most?) obsessive Japanese gamers are considerably less social than an average SDA record holder). In hotarubi's case, I suspect that he spent at least 2000–2500 hours on SM in total to become this good.

The key word here is perseverance. Whereas for Western players, it is common to settle on flaws and find various speed/safety tradeoffs in SS (and oftentimes segmented) runs and consider them normal, it's exactly as common for guys like hotarubi to shoot at perfection and consider everything that falls short a literal flaw (notice how hotarubi says about his 0:32: "there are nearly 100 mistakes in this run" — this is exactly that mindset at work; how many of us have pointed at least half of them out, rather than bringing up a handful of the major ones?). Whereas for Western players, it is common to defend themselves against criticism (examples are abundant, I'm not gonna name them to avoid flamewars), Japanese players are usually the first to criticize their work even if it's the best result ever at that point in time. Partly because they are inherently humble, partly because they're ready for their effort to become obsolete because it's obviously not perfect.

Everything in this post wasn't meant to tarnish or belittle Western players, but rather to underline the ideologically different approach that makes Japanese gameplay appear superior to the point of cheating, and make it easier to understand just what it takes to achieve these results. It's just how they do things. It's in their culture to do them this way. Obviously this doesn't mean that a Western player can't beat a Japanese player, either. Lastly, the fact that hotarubi is Japanese may not be of any relevance whatsoever, but the point about perseverance, perfectionism, and time spent playing stands in any case.

If you'll excuse me, I'll bring hotarubi's consistency topic back.

After mildly familiarizing myself with the way Japanese people play games competitively (through arcade culture, mostly), I can't be surprised by something like that anymore. The thing is, they play the games they choose to compete in [i]a lot[/i]. They play them pretty much every day, sometimes several hours a day, and world-class results usually start to appear after they have spent at least a [i]thousand[/i] hours on a single game (that's about a thousand SS attempts at SM; if you were making two each day every day on average, you'd need to be playing the game this intensively for almost 1.4 years). There are many features of Japanese society which contribute to such lifestyle, including very leveled day routines and little social interaction (many (most?) obsessive Japanese gamers are considerably less social than an average SDA record holder). In hotarubi's case, I suspect that he spent at least 2000–2500 hours on SM in total to become this good.

The key word here is perseverance. Whereas for Western players, it is common to settle on flaws and find various speed/safety tradeoffs in SS (and oftentimes segmented) runs and consider them normal, it's exactly as common for guys like hotarubi to shoot at perfection and consider everything that falls short a literal flaw (notice how hotarubi says about his 0:32: "there are nearly 100 mistakes in this run" — this is exactly that mindset at work; how many of us have pointed at least half of them out, rather than bringing up a handful of the major ones?). Whereas for Western players, it is common to defend themselves against criticism (examples are abundant, I'm not gonna name them to avoid flamewars), Japanese players are usually the first to criticize their work even if it's the best result ever at that point in time. Partly because they are inherently humble, partly because they're ready for their effort to become obsolete because it's obviously not perfect.

Everything in this post wasn't meant to tarnish or belittle Western players, but rather to underline the ideologically different approach that makes Japanese gameplay appear superior to the point of cheating, and make it easier to understand just what it takes to achieve these results. It's just how they do things. It's in their culture to do them this way. Obviously this doesn't mean that a Western player can't beat a Japanese player, either. Lastly, the fact that hotarubi is Japanese may not be of any relevance whatsoever, but the point about perseverance, perfectionism, and time spent playing stands in any case.

Quietus

2009-06-11 07:19:50 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Hence his choosing not to offer his 0:50 100% run as the new record, as he saw too many mistakes, and wants to hit 0:49.

Smokey

2009-06-13 01:15:16 pm

Seeing how it is the speedrunning community here on m2k2, I don't find Western players _just_ settling on flaws. Not only speaking for myself, but for most here on m2k2. Take for example the speedrunners over MP; all of the record holder videos are nasty (in a good way) with thoughtful play, always striving for perfection.

As for SM, take for example Red Scarlet or me 5 years ago. The competiton was very stiff, and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in her vids as I did, always trading a tip or strat, never with the thought of settling for a mediocre result. In the end you must settle for a result you think is the best one, otherwise you'll be eternally doing it. As you said, hotarubi himself (and many of us) publicly admit that there's always mistakes and many, and we always criticize our work first while also suggesting for people to criticize it.

Maybe I came too harsh with the earlier post, because I know it takes a lot of cojones to really come here and post those things, no matter how much evidence I found to be the right one. Who am I to set someone's limit? I just didn't take into consideration until now how much time it saves the slight route improvement with all the new tricks, and also the fact that you can do MANY seemingly "perfect" speedruns and get for example 0:30:00 while you can also make one natural with many mistakes and get 0:30:59.

That being said, hotarubi's :31 is just... and astonishing time that won't be easy to beat (again, unless some major improvements to the route are done).

Seeing how it is the speedrunning community here on m2k2, I don't find Western players _just_ settling on flaws. Not only speaking for myself, but for most here on m2k2. Take for example the speedrunners over MP; all of the record holder videos are nasty (in a good way) with thoughtful play, always striving for perfection.

As for SM, take for example Red Scarlet or me 5 years ago. The competiton was very stiff, and I'm sure she put a lot of effort in her vids as I did, always trading a tip or strat, never with the thought of settling for a mediocre result. In the end you must settle for a result you think is the best one, otherwise you'll be eternally doing it. As you said, hotarubi himself (and many of us) publicly admit that there's always mistakes and many, and we always criticize our work first while also suggesting for people to criticize it.

Maybe I came too harsh with the earlier post, because I know it takes a lot of [i]cojones[/i] to really come here and post those things, no matter how much evidence I found to be the right one. Who am I to set someone's limit? I just didn't take into consideration until now how much time it saves the slight route improvement with all the new tricks, and also the fact that you can do MANY seemingly "perfect" speedruns and get for example 0:30:00 while you can also make one natural with many mistakes and get 0:30:59.

That being said, hotarubi's :31 is just... and astonishing time that won't be easy to beat (again, unless some major improvements to the route are done).

Saturn

2009-06-17 11:30:58 pm

Here is another Any% savestate run, using the realtime-oriented route by doing Phantoon first and Draygon last to minimize backtracking, and skipping Plasma. Got a mid 0:30.

Please note that this route is much riskier than the traditional one, and requires many tricky strategies that are easy to screw up, so I don't recommend it for console runners in any case. It's more a TAS route that is only worth to do with savestates.

Despite of early WS, it features a nice Pantoon 2-rounder with only Missiles, and Kraid's Lair is delayed after Ridley for faster clean up with Speed Booster. The only mistake was at Ridley, on whom I forgot to use a PB-Wave combo as the first hit to save a few more seconds, but in this run, it wouldn't make a difference in the completion time anyway, so I'm fine with it.

Recorded on Snes9x 1.43 v12 as usual, and played to 100% in realtime. Enjoy!

attachment:

Saturn - SM Any% (realtime) in 30 - Savestate run v1.zip

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2009-06-19 06:39:00 am

2009-06-18 10:21:38 am

Great run man, good to see something diferent. The WS lake was very nice, i liked the Phantoon fight, it was beautiful. But i agree with you, on a console it's not worth to try. I've been trying to improve my previous only-savestates run using the best of mine and Smokey tricks, it took me about 4 days but now it's done.

This is a 28:30 ONLY-SAVESTATES run you can download below.
You will see some "almost perfect" movements due to the abuse of savestates in some parts, even so i asure you that all the tricks were performed in real time.
I abused of savestates to reach a good landing position when i had to climb more than 3 plataforms in the same room and when fighting Draygon, Ridley and Mothre Brain. So i savedstate 3 or 4 times in some rooms like in Wrecked Ship and others.
What most helped me to get this time was the Ghost Script, every room i did i compared it with my and Smokey's previous run. Even so i was not capable to climb the Crateria Shaft as fast as Smokey and in other rooms where i couldn't be faster i tried at least to be equal. In the end there are just two rooms that's bothering me cause i know i could be faster, the two are in Torian, the first is the room after the metroid larvas where there are two invencible creatures, and the other is the room after the big metroid larva and before the refil station. Anyway it wouldn't have impact in the final time, but maybe i fix it just for perfection.

I used Snes9x 1.43 Improvement 15
Enjoy

Great run man, good to see something diferent. The WS lake was very nice, i liked the Phantoon fight, it was beautiful. But i agree with you, on a console it's not worth to try. I've been trying to improve my previous only-savestates run using the best of mine and Smokey tricks, it took me about 4 days but now it's done.

This is a 28:30 ONLY-SAVESTATES run you can download below.
You will see some "almost perfect" movements due to the abuse of savestates in some parts, even so i asure you that all the tricks were performed in real time.
I abused of savestates to reach a good landing position when i had to climb more than 3 plataforms in the same room and when fighting Draygon, Ridley and Mothre Brain. So i savedstate  3 or 4 times in some rooms like in Wrecked Ship and others.
What most helped me to get this time was the Ghost Script, every room i did i compared it with my and Smokey's previous run. Even so i was not capable to climb the Crateria Shaft as fast as Smokey and in other rooms where i couldn't be faster i tried at least to be equal. In the end there are just two rooms that's bothering me cause i know i could be faster, the two are in Torian, the first is the room after the metroid larvas where there are two invencible creatures, and the other is the room after the big metroid larva and before the refil station. Anyway it wouldn't have impact in the final time, but maybe i fix it just for perfection.

I used Snes9x 1.43 Improvement 15
Enjoy

attachment:

Reeve - SM Any% (Real Time+Savestates) in 28.smv

Saturn

2009-06-19 06:32:19 pm

Wow Reeve, didn't expect a mid 0:28 to be possible that soon. You sure abused the hell out of the savestates this time, and the precision, especially during jumps is so high, that it almost looks like a TAS already.

Good job!

Smokey

2009-06-19 09:58:33 pm

Saturn:

Impressive work. Again, your route choice is excellent and with full of ideas. Even using this newer route, you still did better than your last :31. I guess exploring a bit more this path for newer ideas can definitely become a contender for a sub-30 run.

Reeve:

Good job. Indeed, you really abused a lot between rooms with savestates :o. As Saturn said, it seems a bit TAS-like for some of the jumps (climbing the WS). I'll give you some pointers if you're considering to "fix" the run:

~ceres escape can be done a bit faster: I managed to get 46:93 real-time.

~The Charge Beam alcove: can be escaped faster with only two walljumps.

~The 2nd heated room after HJB: no need to use the enemy knockback to reach the red door, as it's quicker to just spinjump over the rock.

~The Huge raising Lava room in LN: if you enter the room with decent precision with a spinjump, you can walljump off the lowest, sharpest point of the rock without the need to use the small spacejumps to reach that part.

~The last upper room of LN (with the lava and Ki-hunters): you missed the mockball there, though there's a quirk to it; I find it easier to do it if you enter the room already 'falling' from a spinjump. That way when you enter the room you can have enough space maneuver to place the next two spacejumps to reach the desired position for the mockball.

Even with doing all this, I don't know if your final time will change that much. Also, you might want to consider 1rounding Phantoon (stutter-walk method) if you seriously want perfection :).

Saturn:

Impressive work. Again, your route choice is excellent and with full of ideas. Even using this newer route, you still did better than your last :31. I guess exploring a bit more this path for newer ideas can definitely become a contender for a sub-30 run.

Reeve:

Good job. Indeed, you really abused a lot between rooms with savestates :o. As Saturn said, it seems a bit TAS-like for some of the jumps (climbing the WS). I'll give you some pointers if you're considering to "fix" the run:

~ceres escape can be done a bit faster: I managed to get 46:93 real-time.

~The Charge Beam alcove: can be escaped faster with only two walljumps.

~The 2nd heated room after HJB: no need to use the enemy knockback to reach the red door, as it's quicker to just spinjump over the rock.

~The Huge raising Lava room in LN: if you enter the room with decent precision with a spinjump, you can walljump off the lowest, sharpest point of the rock without the need to use the small spacejumps to reach that part.

~The last upper room of LN (with the lava and Ki-hunters): you missed the mockball there, though there's a quirk to it; I find it easier to do it if you enter the room already 'falling' from a spinjump. That way when you enter the room you can have enough space maneuver to place the next two spacejumps to reach the desired position for the mockball.

Even with doing all this, I don't know if your final time will change that much. Also, you might want to consider 1rounding Phantoon (stutter-walk method) if you seriously want perfection :).

Reeve

2009-06-20 11:11:54 am

Thanks Guys.
Well, i think it's a good run and like Smokey said i don't think even if i do the improvements he sugested it will change the final time (By the way, thanks for the sugestions Smokey). The jumps in WS really seem to be TAS, but some others i did even without the savestate.
Anyway, if you change the "perfect jumps" for some "regular jumps" it would probably be an at least high 28. I'm thinking about to try some console SS runs after trying it a bit more on Snes9x, unfortunately i have the original game but don't have the console. I'll try to find it to buy as soon as possible.

Man this game is so amazing, there's so many diferent routes and things to try... Seeing some speedruns and TASes i found that other games are so boring cause you just have to "Go Ahead" and jump and jump and jump... and those games will probably find a time that can't be improved, but this game will aways have at least a frame to be improved. Some people may be upset with the emulators and its tools and the TASers, but i see it as a great evolution to all the gamers. A lot of tricks in the games were found just because of the TASers and the Emulators. My will of improve my realtime runs never was and never will be killed by the perfect speedruns of the TASers, the truth is i feel estimulated to try new things.

Thanks Guys.
Well, i think it's a good run and like Smokey said i don't think even if i do the improvements he sugested it will change the final time (By the way, thanks for the sugestions Smokey). The jumps in WS really seem to be TAS, but some others i did even without the savestate.
Anyway, if you change the "perfect jumps" for some "regular jumps" it would probably be an at least high 28. I'm thinking about to try some console SS runs after trying it a bit more on Snes9x, unfortunately i have the original game but don't have the console. I'll try to find it to buy as soon as possible.

Man this game is so amazing, there's so many diferent routes and things to try... Seeing some speedruns and TASes i found that other games are so boring cause you just have to "Go Ahead" and jump and jump and jump... and those games will probably find a time that can't be improved, but this game will aways have at least a frame to be improved. Some people may be upset with the emulators and its tools and the TASers, but i see it as a great evolution to all the gamers. A lot of tricks in the games were found just because of the TASers and the Emulators. My will of improve my realtime runs never was and never will be killed by the perfect speedruns of the TASers, the truth is i feel estimulated to try new things.

namespoofer

2009-06-20 05:05:28 pm

Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.

Quote from Reeve:

but this game will aways have at least a frame to be improved. Some people may be upset with the emulators and its tools and the TASers, but i see it as a great evolution to all the gamers. A lot of tricks in the games were found just because of the TASers and the Emulators. My will of improve my realtime runs never was and never will be killed by the perfect speedruns of the TASers, the truth is i feel estimulated to try new things.

Amen Reeve, amen. Perfection of this game will, however, be reached for the TASers eventually.. (It doesn't wanna come soon enough.. Fuck!)