Super Metroid - 0:31 SS by Hotarubi!

2008-07-03 02:32:38 pm

Hotarubi is back with a new record: 0:31 SS!

http://www.youtube.com/user/yayu50

Enjoy!

Thread title:

2008-07-03 02:36:41 pm

Almost happy

Wow, I did not see that coming. Now 072 really needs to hit 00:30...

And I find it interesting that he aims for realtime, I didn't think we would ever see that in a unassisted Super Metroid run.

juicemousezero

2008-07-03 03:03:22 pm

Is he submitting this to SDA or is he gonna go for 00:29 first? :) Really though I'm half joking and half asking for real. Heh...

Cpadolf

2008-07-03 03:10:51 pm

Almost happy

Man some of the mistakes look so painful, Botwoon and pre ridley spark must have made him cry :-D

Wonderful run on the whole, I predict that it is a pretty high 31, and 00:30 in a SS run looks pretty far away at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept trying for a while longer before submitting to SDA.

072

Edit history:

072: 2008-07-03 04:53:52 pm

2008-07-03 03:28:46 pm

coral to complement blue

Well there was no way I would have settled for :31 anyway, so this doesn't kill any motivation for me. I may kill myself if he makes :30 SS though.

Now to watch the run.

EDIT:

Well that was pretty awesome. I commend him for his 2-Round Phantoon strat. Even though it is slightly slower, I would imagine it is much more reliable. Keep that in mind, people who aren't consistent with the old way!

I'm curious why, but slightly relieved that he didn't incorporate any of the recent improvement ideas. (Delaying Ice, Wrap-around spark in LN, skipping the Metroid..) Before anyone says that they would be too difficult for an SS, keep in mind who the runner is. ;P

There are a lot of tricks in the run that afaik have never been featured in an unassisted run, like the mockball out of the post-Kraid Ki-Hunter room. His method of falling down Crateria mainstreet at the beginning (going through the right side of the door) I have seen, but I didn’t think anyone could become consistent enough to do it in an SS. I’ve never done it at all. Guess I should work on that.

I'm confused about what he did in Maridia regarding ammo management. He spends 10+ seconds refilling Supers before Draygon again like he did in his last run, while two Shinesparks would have sufficed with no time cost. After that, he skips most of the cacti Supers on the way to Plasma and fights Ridley without using a single Super. Although he manages to take Ridley down pretty fast, I can't see how that is worth it. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Well there was no way I would have settled for :31 anyway, so this doesn't kill any motivation for me. I may kill myself if he makes :30 SS though.

Now to watch the run.

EDIT:

Well that was pretty awesome. I commend him for his 2-Round Phantoon strat. Even though it is slightly slower, I would imagine it is much more reliable. Keep that in mind, people who aren't consistent with the old way!

I'm curious why, but slightly relieved that he didn't incorporate any of the recent improvement ideas. (Delaying Ice, Wrap-around spark in LN, skipping the Metroid..) Before anyone says that they would be too difficult for an SS, keep in mind who the runner is. ;P

There are a lot of tricks in the run that afaik have never been featured in an unassisted run, like the mockball out of the post-Kraid Ki-Hunter room. His method of falling down Crateria mainstreet at the beginning (going through the right side of the door) I have seen, but I didn’t think anyone could become consistent enough to do it in an SS. I’ve never done it at all. Guess I should work on that.

I'm confused about what he did in Maridia regarding ammo management. He spends 10+ seconds refilling Supers before Draygon again like he did in his last run, while two Shinesparks would have sufficed with no time cost. After that, he skips most of the cacti Supers on the way to Plasma and fights Ridley without using a single Super. Although he manages to take Ridley down pretty fast, I can't see how that is worth it. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

hero of the day

2008-07-03 04:33:05 pm

Pretty awesome run :o

I am just curious how this run "aims for realtime." What did he do differently?

I think it would be awesome if he actually used the in-game TAS route (aka: Cpadolf's run) to see what time he could get with it. I suppose the main hurdle of using that route would be the slower phantoon fight, but I am sure there could be a way of speeding it up even if you only have missiles at the time. I also think that the maridia super missile pack could have been skipped.

072

2008-07-03 04:59:13 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from hero of the day:

I am just curious how this run "aims for realtime." What did he do differently?

He doesn't use Murder Beam on Mother Brain, and avoids going to the pause screen unless it is absolutely necessary (although this costs him big time right after Botwoon).

hero of the day

2008-07-03 05:08:48 pm

Why collect the spazer beam if the murder beam is not going to be used? You bring up some other really good points in your post 072. I think that if he used some of those riskier strategies, and fixed up a couple of the route mistakes, 30 should be possible (for him).

072

2008-07-03 05:19:58 pm

coral to complement blue

Spazer Beam is a must for Phantoon. Phantoon 2-Round with missiles would actually make sub-30 possible because of all the new route opportunities (Such as delaying Kraid and skipping Spazer), but it is really not an option; getting a perfect Phantoon segment is hell already and that is without cwj-ing/dbj-ing the missile moat, never mind a near-impossible Phantoon battle.

GoldenShadow

2008-07-04 01:05:32 am

You're the best SM player ever. To pull off all of those tricks without tools and no save points was an amazing feat.

devonodev

2008-07-04 01:07:10 am

Devonodev: Other D

this is an amazing run.
i wonder how long 'till sub :30 ss is conquered. Very Happy

butterflyboy1974

2008-07-04 08:40:43 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

When I click on the link, I get his youtube page but I cant figure out where the movie is. All i see is a bunch of other short speed trick movies. Help please, I want to be awed.

Xaggoth

2008-07-04 12:47:25 pm

It's the any% run posted in July.

butterflyboy1974

2008-07-04 06:26:52 pm

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

Jut got done watching, totally f-ing awesome.

I noticed something strange that I have never seen before. On part 5 at about 1:27 his power bomb icon starts blinking. Whats up with that?

072

Edit history:

072: 2008-07-04 07:41:19 pm

2008-07-04 06:41:29 pm

coral to complement blue

If you hold in Item Cancel while selecting a weapon, it will be set to revert back to your normal beam after one use of the weapon. Can be handy if your button configuration allows for doing that. It's just one of those small details that makes Super so awesome.

EDIT: Okay, despite what I said earlier about Phantoon, I really want to try to get the TAS route to work. I don't see the point in continuing my test run right now because I know that it won't make :30, and if a better route could help bring the time down another minute, I have to try. Before I restart my run, can any TASer give me an estimate on how much time would be saved over the old route? I hope that I am not being overly optimistic here.

hero of the day

2008-07-04 11:10:30 pm

I think Saturn could provide a pretty accurate breakdown of the gains in this route. I estimate it to be 20-30 seconds faster, if everything it pulled off perfectly. Though the tricks in this route are pretty difficult; red brinstar climb, missile lake CWJ (2 frame margin for error), phantoon, not to mention the energy management needed for the 120 hp damage boost in the statue room.

Here are some of my estimates on the time gained/lost (could be very inaccurate :P)

loses:
No speed booster for WS entry/WS attic - ~10 seconds lost
Lack of wave beam - ~1-2 seconds
Insanely difficult phantoon fight - depends on how many rounds you can kill him with just missiles
No high jump for red brinstar/all of WS - ~3-4 seconds

gains:
No huge backtrack from norfair to WS - ~10-14 seconds
No spazer - ~10 seconds
Have power bombs for norfair - ~6 seconds
Kill kraid with plasma/spacejump/speed booster - ~10 seconds

butterflyboy1974

2008-07-05 05:05:09 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

Quote from 072:

If you hold in Item Cancel while selecting a weapon, it will be set to revert back to your normal beam after one use of the weapon. Can be handy if your button configuration allows for doing that. It's just one of those small details that makes Super so awesome.

OMG I can't believe I never knew that. All the books, guides, magazines, everything I have ever read on SM I don't ever remember seeing that anywhere. That's one thing I love about this game, doesn't matter how long you play it, something new always comes up!

Saturn

2008-07-05 07:16:21 am

Although it's cool to see you want to try the Phantoon first route, I still fear it will turn out slower in a unassisted run in the end.

According to my tests I did ~2,5 years ago, Phantoon first route will only save at most 10 sec, and this with all the gains of late Kraid with Speed Booster and early PBs for Norfair included, while still having a 1-round Phantoon fight, optimal WS lake CWJ and flawless WS runthrough. So that's basicly in TAS conditions only. In a unassisted run, the WS lake alone would already make this route not worth it, since you need to execute 2 frame perfect moves in a row (the jump to the Missile, and the CWJ off the pod), which would have a pretty low success rate to get done on the first try. HBJ is safer, but would already lose nearly all the time you could possibly gain by this route. And then there is Phantoon, who would definitely lose the rest of route gain due to the missing beams. However if you manage to pass this 2 critical situations without losing too much time compared to the usual route, then there might be a chance to get a at least close to the usual route time.

If anything, we could at least see a new route never used in a console run before, so maybe it's still worth a try, even if only to find out the actual time differences of it.

And I agree with Hero, skipping Spazer (even if doing Kraid first) might be a interesting option, but only worth it if you can pull off the PB-Wave combo on Phantoon with a good success rate. Otherwise it would most likely lose you more time than just collecting it.

Although it's cool to see you want to try the Phantoon first route, I still fear it will turn out slower in a unassisted run in the end.

According to my tests I did ~2,5 years ago, Phantoon first route will only save at most 10 sec, and this with all the gains of late Kraid with Speed Booster and early PBs for Norfair included, while still having a 1-round Phantoon fight, optimal WS lake CWJ and flawless WS runthrough. So that's basicly in TAS conditions only. In a unassisted run, the WS lake alone would already make this route not worth it, since you need to execute 2 frame perfect moves in a row (the jump to the Missile, and the CWJ off the pod), which would have a pretty low success rate to get done on the first try. HBJ is safer, but would already lose nearly all the time you could possibly gain by this route. And then there is Phantoon, who would definitely lose the rest of route gain due to the missing beams. However if you manage to pass this 2 critical situations without losing too much time compared to the usual route, then there might be a chance to get a at least close to the usual route time.

If anything, we could at least see a new route never used in a console run before, so maybe it's still worth a try, even if only to find out the actual time differences of it.

And I agree with Hero, skipping Spazer (even if doing Kraid first) might be a interesting option, but only worth it if you can pull off the PB-Wave combo on Phantoon with a good success rate. Otherwise it would most likely lose you more time than just collecting it.

Cpadolf

2008-07-05 08:36:08 am

Almost happy

If aiming for ingame time I think taking spazer is the better choice, using murderbea on motherbrains second phase saves just about exactly as much time as taking spazer costs, and having it makes a lot of things easier, easier to hit enemies = faster refilling and such.

MASTER-88

2008-07-05 12:20:42 pm

Speedrunner

This is crazy time.

Hotarubi is best SM player ever. Only 4 minutes slower than first TAS run.

Cpadolf

2008-07-05 01:00:41 pm

Almost happy

Actually it is 3 minutes faster than the first TAS, but that it due to better routes and tricks and not more flawless playing.

072

2008-07-05 03:03:17 pm

coral to complement blue

Okay, I came up with some numbers.

Terimakasih in his last TAS takes ~4:10 from the room before the missile moat, through the wrecked ship, and back to that room. The two times he goes to the pause screen were deducted; door transitions and item pickups that were the same as in Hero's first TAS were not. Hero's time is a little over 4:20. The loss here for an unassisted run would probably be about 15-20 seconds, since Hero's run was more optimized and with arm pumping. (But didn't use a CWJ)

Terimakasih takes about 2:00 exactly at Kraid's in the same run, while Cpadolf in his :24 run takes about 1:30. If he had collected the Kraid E-Tank, it would have been more like 1:35-1:40. That's 20 seconds saved again if you factor out the higher level of optimization/arm pumping.

In an unassisted run on, say, Hotarubi level, The Green/Red Brinstar intersection to the Maridia tube takes, again, nearly 20 seconds in-game time. With the old route, you have to take three passes through there before Maridia, but with this route you do only one. This is 35-40 seconds saved!

The benefit of having PBs for Norfair cancels out the time lost from not having wave/high jump in the Wrecked Ship, so unless there is something big that I am not considering, in the end the route looks to be 40-45 seconds faster.

Okay, I came up with some numbers.

Terimakasih in his last TAS takes ~4:10 from the room before the missile moat, through the wrecked ship, and back to that room. The two times he goes to the pause screen were deducted; door transitions and item pickups that were the same as in Hero's first TAS were not. Hero's time is a little over 4:20. The loss here for an unassisted run would probably be about 15-20 seconds, since Hero's run was more optimized and with arm pumping. (But didn't use a CWJ)

Terimakasih takes about 2:00 exactly at Kraid's in the same run, while Cpadolf in his :24 run takes about 1:30. If he had collected the Kraid E-Tank, it would have been more like 1:35-1:40. That's 20 seconds saved again if you factor out the higher level of optimization/arm pumping.

In an unassisted run on, say, Hotarubi level, The Green/Red Brinstar intersection to the Maridia tube takes, again, nearly 20 seconds in-game time. With the old route, you have to take three passes through there before Maridia, but with this route you do only one. This is 35-40 seconds saved!

The benefit of having PBs for Norfair cancels out the time lost from not having wave/high jump in the Wrecked Ship, so unless there is something big that I am not considering, in the end the route looks to be 40-45 seconds faster.

hero of the day

2008-07-05 04:06:21 pm

I think Hotarubi's 14% run is a great guide on how the WS portion of the run will go. He had alot of trouble with the missile lake bomb jump, so I suggest practicing the CWJ method instead. It is about 2 seconds faster than the bomb method. His phantoon fight was actually pretty decent except for the fact that he had to use 2 supers on him, which caused phantoon to do a long string of attacks. If you get down the shudder walk and can press the fire button fast enough, I think you may be able to get in 4-6 missiles each time he flies by the screen. Ideally you would only need to use a single super at the end of the fight to kill off his final 600 hp. Hotarubi didn't have much trouble getting the energy needed for the spike pit boosts, so that probably won't be too much of an issue. After getting the gravity suit, the rest of the run is smooth sailing :P

Do you plan on making a run with this route? It would be awesome if you could do some test smv's and post them on here.

Cpadolf

2008-07-05 04:23:24 pm

Almost happy

I think with enough training 3 rounding phantoon with missiles should be doable with a acceptable success rate. round 1 would be 6/7 missiles, round 2 6/7 missiles (one is 6 the other 7) and round 3 would be 6 missiles and a super (that will probably be the hardest part, switching to supers and shooting in a very small time window). In a 3 round stutter walk is not really needed, since you only need to hit him with 3 or 4 missiles when he is sweeping at you (you shoot him one when he opens the eye, two while he is moving around before the sweep and the rest when he comes at you). Not that stutter walk is really hard, with turbofire I can get a 2 round pretty consistently, the hard part is definitely pressing fast enough and not out of pace. 2 round unassisted sounds pretty far fetched though.

072

2008-07-05 05:08:11 pm

coral to complement blue

How fast would the shoot button need to be pressed for 2-rounding, exactly?

[quote=hero of the day]He had alot of trouble with the missile lake bomb jump, so I suggest practicing the CWJ method instead. It is about 2 seconds faster than the bomb method.[/quote]

My plan was to go for the CWJ, but revert to DBJing if I knew that I jumped too early. I'm pretty consistent with DBJing.

[quote=hero of the day]Do you plan on making a run with this route? It would be awesome if you could do some test smv's and post them on here.[/quote]

That sounds like a good idea, but I'll need to buy an Snes controller adapter thing first, since I absolutely cannot play on a keyboard.