Super Metroid - 0:31 SS by Hotarubi!

2009-09-01 05:39:05 pm

yeah

hm, yeah maybe i was a bit quick to come post this. probably should have looked into it a bit more first.

2009-09-01 09:23:52 pm

I have no doubt that Hotarubi's runs were done on a console, he is not cheating. I've been playing about an hour a day since one month ago, i'm not using savestate or slowmotion. I play from the Ship to Norfair and restart the run. I can perform all the tricks Hotarubi uses till Norfair with almost the same consistency. Considering that i'm training just one hour a day and just for one month, it's a great result. I've been talking to Smokey sometimes and as far as i know he changed his mind about Hotarubi's 32 min run after getting a segmented any% run in 32 comiting all kinds of mistakes (some proposital and some not). So i think Hotarubi's runs are the result of a Skilled Player plus tons of hours of dedication to the game.

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2009-09-02 06:16:35 pm

2009-09-02 04:16:08 pm

yeah

yeah smokey already told me all about that, and i agree with him. I'm not trying to prove Hotarubi fake or anything; I just noticed that flickering issue and (stupidly) assumed it was something suspicious.

OptimoPeach

2009-11-06 03:39:24 pm

asdf?

Quote from Smokey:

As for movements, I've been *speedrunning* using the keyboard for a very long time to see moves in common. Why is it that every time he uses the charge beam while dashing, he arm-pumps with just one shoulder button instead of both, and after a few seconds of running, he begins to press both in some cases? Not just one time, he does it almost every time. That's because sometimes you can't toggle to many buttons at once.(<I certainly do this while using the original Zsnes keyboard setup)

I know this discussion is totally dead and Smokey has since recanted his skepticism, but I still thought it was worth pointing out that I've noticed him shoulder-pump up and down while charged in both his 0:32 and 0:31 SS; for example, when he's crossing the noob bridge in his 0:31 run (at 0:53 in this video).

Quietus

2009-11-06 03:48:44 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I don't really see that as a problem. The shoulder pumping is done on L and R, which can be reached at any time, so they're pretty much irrelevant to the button-pressing debate. That means that all he's actually doing is holding the fire button and the run button, which is not difficult.

OptimoPeach

2009-11-06 04:17:26 pm

asdf?

No, I know, but at the time Smokey was saying that he never pumps in both directions while running with the charge beam, and as most keyboards don't allow input of a large number of keys he felt that this was reason for suspicion of the run being performed on an emulator with the keyboard.

...But I just reread the quote and I guess he meant that he never pumps in both directions while he's actually charging, so that was a stupid bump I guess. Sorry.

Now I'm really confused why he thought that was suspicious, though, because he'd still have to be holding down a large amount of keys, seemingly more than the threshold for locking up on a keyboard. I've never played with the keyboard, so maybe there's something I'm missing

Quietus

2009-11-06 04:25:18 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm not sure if you realise or not, but ALL of Hotarubi's runs are performed on an actual SNES. Keys are irrelevant.

OptimoPeach

2009-11-06 04:45:09 pm

asdf?

I'm aware of that (and I believe it), but in that post Smokey was suggesting otherwise.

Quote from Smokey:

Seems kinda odd to me. I find it impossible to believe someone can perform consistently many tricks in a SS....After seeing the same results, time after time, I became skeptical about his runs and more so after watching a 0:31 (and a 0:44 14%, but that's another matter...)
....
I made this post because I know some of you (at least people who have broken the sub 0:39 legitimately) know deep down how impossible an amazing 0:32 or 0:31 is.
....
you gotta have to find it interesting how impossible it is to get 0:32 or below in unassisted conditions.

The whole point of my original post was to clear up at least one of the bits of suspicion, but now I really don't understand what he meant in the first place lol.

Quietus

2009-11-06 05:13:03 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

To summarise: Smokey (and others) felt that Hotarubi's 0:31 was all but impossible. Through playtesting with save states, they reached times of 0:29, and ascertained that it was not impossible to reach 0:31, but required an inhuman consistency with all of the tricks. It appears that Hotarubi is just very gifted when it comes to this game, as he can consistently pull off tricks without hesitation, and achieve such results.

moozooh

2009-11-06 05:19:11 pm

Well, no, it's times below 0:30 that would require, citing, an inhuman consistency with all of the tricks. 0:30 to 0:32 require inhuman consistency with only some of the tricks. ;)

Quietus

2009-11-06 05:21:05 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

If you consider the average player as 'human', then he's still 'inhuman'. My money's still on him being a machine. Razz

OptimoPeach

2009-11-06 05:36:17 pm

asdf?

Yeah, I read the thread (hence the comment about Smokey withdrawing his skepticism), but I remembered him mentioning the pumping-while-charged thing from a while ago and it popped into my head as I was watching the 0:31 run last night, and I felt that even though the consensus now is that the run is legit, it still warranted correction. All of that's irrelevant, though, since I misinterpreted his comment on that anyway -- although I'm still confused in regards to what he meant exactly.

Anyway, yes, I agree that Hotarubi is godly lol. One of the only comparisons that I can think of for his performance in video games is some of the Korean Starcraft players

ICheatAtGolf

2011-01-30 02:00:44 pm

Dead thread is dead, huh. I can't believe it, it's been more than a year since the last post. Anyway, i've been getting back into SM recently. I don't know if anyone's done anymore thinking about Hotarubi's runs, but it might be worth mentioning that in his 0:32 submission, his author's comments say, and I quote (as translated): "It seemed that 31mins was impossible, so I went to the bomb room and rescueed the animals."

Now, just how could he know this? Did he have a timer nearby that he would stop every time there was a transition that the game didn't record?

I know i'm beating a dead horse here, but even experts make mistakes. Sure, the SDA verification team may be highly qualified and experienced. However, even the most highly educated professionals can overlook things. Just throwing that out there.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2011-01-30 02:44:36 pm

moozooh: 2011-01-30 02:43:25 pm

2011-01-30 02:42:09 pm

This has been addressed a number of times during the last four years.

First point is, there is a very clear correspondence between in-game time and realtime, so that when you do the same stuff over and over, deviations in realtime (due to difference in lag and pause screen length) will be minimal, and, for the most part, easily accountable. Thus it would be pretty clear that if you have a large stopwatch next to your screen showing that the escape countdown starts at 51 minutes into the run you can tell with a reasonable certainty that your in-game time is over 0:31:00. Since the escape sequence takes slightly over a minute in any case and you have an in-game clock right there on the screen saying exactly how well you're doing, Hotarubi was sure he/she had another 15 seconds to burn without rolling over to :33.

Second point is, when you run the same route a lot of times you can pretty reasonably estimate the time you're going to arrive at even without the stopwatch within less than a minute. Keep in mind that if you can't do it, it doesn't mean more experienced players can't.

This has been addressed a number of times during the last four years.

First point is, there is a very clear correspondence between in-game time and realtime, so that when you do the same stuff over and over, deviations in realtime (due to difference in lag and pause screen length) will be minimal, and, for the most part, easily accountable. Thus it would be pretty clear that if you have a large stopwatch next to your screen showing that the escape countdown starts at 51 minutes into the run you can tell with a reasonable certainty that your in-game time is over 0:31:00. Since the escape sequence takes slightly over a minute in any case and you have an in-game clock right there on the screen saying exactly how well you're doing, Hotarubi was sure he/she had another 15 seconds to burn without rolling over to :33.

Second point is, when you run the same route a lot of times you can pretty reasonably estimate the time you're going to arrive at even without the stopwatch within less than a minute. Keep in mind that if you can't do it, it doesn't mean more experienced players can't.

ICheatAtGolf

2011-01-30 06:23:05 pm

Understood. I haven't been around, and so I haven't really had a chance to weigh in on the discussion. That should've been one of the first things I thought of, going by realtime. Now I realize how stupid of an idea it was to revive this thread. Oh well.

Maybe his run is here to stay. I can't see anyone beating it in the near (or distant) future.

Quietus

2011-01-30 06:47:00 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It can be easily beaten using the latest techniques. Even though they're fairly big, if you really want to get up-to-date on things, you should scan through the PAL and NTSC threads currently near the top of the Super Metroid section. Having been present during most of the recent discoveries / discussions, I can assure you that there's a LOT of stuff.

Reeve

2011-01-30 06:49:21 pm

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

Maybe his run is here to stay. I can't see anyone beating it in the near (or distant) future.

I really don't think so. Although this run was great, today we have some new tricks that can help to achieve at least a 30min run. We've been pretty busy this last year testing and finding them and now i'm pretty sure that his 31min run will be beaten or in the worst case, it will be matched with another 31min run. Also, there's a speedrunner called Behemoth that is in his way to beat Hotarubi's 50min 100% speedrun with a 49min run at least, and considering Behemoth is playing in the European evrsion of the game, it's equal to a 45/46 min run on NTSC.