Glitch Topic

Edit history:

JAM: 2010-12-02 09:35:18 pm

2010-12-02 09:14:25 pm

Quote from Behemoth:

But it has a few drawbacks which are fairly difficult to explain but I'll give it a shot.
You can't activate the statue to lower the lava unless you have space jump so you could do the green gate glitch instead, but you need to get the missiles to the left of GT in his room. Only obtainable from the left using the statue from before. Do you still do the GT code early and then just pick up his missiles later and return to the route?. Or do you do the GT code later on when you have the space jump in which case you can use the statue and collect GT's missiles. Which could mean there won't be any point in doing the code since you have more items than the code gives you anyway.

As for me, I'm planning to enter GT room from the wrong side and
recollect these Missiles later

Quote from JMD:

This is more of a code than glitch. I think the name of GT code suits it just fine.

It also works if place bomb Torizo in any room in Norfair.
So, IMHO, it should sounds as "Torizo item code" or "GT item code"

[quote="Behemoth"]
But it has a few drawbacks which are fairly difficult to explain but I'll give it a shot.
You can't activate the statue to lower the lava unless you have space jump so you could do the green gate glitch instead, but you need to get the missiles to the left of GT in his room. Only obtainable from the left using the statue from before. Do you still do the GT code early and then just pick up his missiles later and return to the route?. Or do you do the GT code later on when you have the space jump in which case you can use the statue and collect GT's missiles. Which could mean there won't be any point in doing the code since you have more items than the code gives you anyway. 
[/quote]
As for me, I'm planning to enter GT room from the wrong side and 
recollect these Missiles later

[quote="JMD"]This is more of a code than glitch. I think the name of GT code suits it just fine.[/quote]
It also works if place bomb Torizo in any room in Norfair. 
So, IMHO, it should sounds as "Torizo item code" or "GT item code"

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-02 09:55:45 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-02 09:54:42 pm

2010-12-02 09:54:26 pm

Well I just tried out the GT item code on PAL and it works (which was what I was expecting). Finished the run exactly how I did in the TAS and thrashed my old times and got 30. On a funny note I could be the first person to see the digits 3 and 0 on console. A time that has remained elusive but obtainable with only a great skill set using the old any% route. and ironically it was on PAL too which has slower times to NTSC, lmao. The run was crap as well tbh, started shit anyway. I think a proper run using the code in the future could see me getting 27 minutes for PAL and 25 for NTSC in console conditions.

As for 100% I'll do another realtime TAS and using the code early again. This will drastically change the run almost everywhere. Only the rest of lower norfair will be the same as before but when we get to maridia and wrecked ship then a whole host of different optimisations await. Most likely the final time will be significantly less than what we are used to for 100%.

Again please let this be another catagory. Or my current 100% on console is all for nout.

Well I just tried out the GT item code on PAL and it works (which was what I was expecting). Finished the run exactly how I did in the TAS and thrashed my old times and got 30. On a funny note I could be the first person to see the digits 3 and 0 on console. A time that has remained elusive but obtainable with only a great skill set using the old any% route. and ironically it was on PAL too which has slower times to NTSC, lmao. The run was crap as well tbh, started shit anyway. I think a proper run using the code in the future could see me getting 27 minutes for PAL and 25 for NTSC in console conditions.

As for 100% I'll do another realtime TAS and using the code early again. This will drastically change the run almost everywhere. Only the rest of lower norfair will be the same as before but when we get to maridia and wrecked ship then a whole host of different optimisations await. Most likely the final time will be significantly less than what we are used to for 100%.

Again please let this be another catagory. Or my current 100% on console is all for nout.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-02 11:36:15 pm

Does anyone know where I can find Snes9x 1.43? I checked Google (the first page, at least) and everything only has 1.51 and above. I'd like to view Behemoth's run, so can anyone point me in the right direction? In the meantime, I'll keep looking. (I'm pretty sure that I'm allowed to ask for emulators, but just let me know if I'm not.)

By the way, this is a really cool trick. I can't believe you got 30 minutes in PAL on console, Behemoth. I'd love to see your TAS as soon as I can.

Opium

2010-12-03 12:22:36 am

Quote from Metroid_Zelda Fan:

Does anyone know where I can find Snes9x 1.43?

4megaupload.com

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-03 12:38:59 am

Found the download, but Linux and Snes9x don't go together very well. Thanks anyway.

Tyjet66

2010-12-03 12:51:13 am

What'd you say?

I've been following the GT code since it has been found and it just leads me to one interesting question... Will this forever change runs of hacks as well?

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-03 12:58:27 am

I was wondering if it would work in hacks, but JAM said it works in any room with GT, so I don't see why not. I don't think most hacks will be built around it (which would be interesting), but I can see it creating new ways to play through hacks.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-03 03:56:52 am

2010-12-03 03:56:22 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

LOL. It won't obsolete your run Behemoth. This is considered a Major Glitch at least IMO. Also it adds to your item percentage when you do this Glitch. As seen in you TAS it said you collected 55% Items which you obviously didn't. I'm not even sure SDA would even accept a run like this we would have to ask our bosses. I know glitched runs are accepted in other games so cross our fingers. Although If we where to submit a Glitched Run I think the Space Time Glitch would be the better route.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-03 05:11:06 am

2010-12-03 05:10:50 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Speaking of the Space Time Glitch. When you restart the game does it keep your Item Percentage or does it reset?

Quietus

2010-12-03 06:08:30 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It keeps it, so you can get an infinite percentage by keep doing it. I think...

For snes9x, this is the version used by everybody when dealing with movies: http://code.google.com/p/snes9x-rr/

As for hacks being changed / ruined: I'm not so sure. Since we know where the code is, it's probably easy enough to just remove / change it.

Behemoth

2010-12-03 09:58:18 am

For me a 100% run is distinguished by picking up every item. That is, going to that area the item resides and collecting it. Percentage to me is unimportant, it just so happens that every item in the game equals to 100%. A 100% run that uses the GT code at the start can still finish the run by picking up every item still. It doesn't matter if the percentage at the end is 133% or 135% etc.

I'm actually in the middle of designing a 100% route that uses the GT code right at the start, similar to the TAS. Then after, hunting down the rest of the games items and killing the rest of bosses. I've reached a point where the route becomes very messy and where even the best optimised route is full of backtracks and detours. Namely after exiting maridia and wrecked ship to clear up the brinstar, crateria and red brinstar items. So fingers crossed that a GT coded 100% could turn out to be slower than a normal 100% after all. But if not then I just hope it becomes a 'glitched' run in the end. It's clear that the GT code has far more benfits to a any% run due to not actually having to pick up items. The only gains to a 100% is 3 bosses sped up using the x ray - plasma death and room strategies that upper norfair, maridia and wrecked ship could have due to having speed boost and space jump earlier in those areas.

For me a 100% run is distinguished by picking up every item. That is, going to that area the item resides and collecting it. Percentage to me is unimportant, it just so happens that every item in the game equals to 100%. A 100% run that uses the GT code at the start can still finish the run by picking up every item still. It doesn't matter if the percentage at the end is 133% or 135% etc.

I'm actually in the middle of designing a 100% route that uses the GT code right at the start, similar to the TAS. Then after, hunting down the rest of the games items and killing the rest of bosses. I've reached a point where the route becomes very messy and where even the best optimised route is full of backtracks and detours. Namely after exiting maridia and wrecked ship to clear up the brinstar, crateria and red brinstar items. So fingers crossed that a GT coded 100% could turn out to be slower than a normal 100% after all. But if not then I just hope it becomes a 'glitched' run in the end. It's clear that the GT code has far more benfits to a any% run due to not actually having to pick up items. The only gains to a 100% is 3 bosses sped up using the x ray - plasma death and room strategies that upper norfair, maridia and wrecked ship could have due to having speed boost and space jump earlier in those areas.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-03 10:10:31 am

Behemoth: Even if 135% runs are allowed, I'd say that regular 100% would still be allowed to. (I don't see any reason for 100% using the GT code, though.)

Quietus: Thanks, looks like one of those downloads is more Linux-friendly than the others. Got the movie working, and I'll be watching it later today.

Behemoth

2010-12-03 10:14:55 am

Like I say, the GT code on a 100% run would speed a lot of areas up but but also slow a lot of areas down due to backtracking. The only way to find out if it's faster or not is to do a TAS which I've started and I'll finish when I've figured out the best route.

Reeve

2010-12-04 05:41:53 am

Although it is a very good find, it seems to me like a trick/code and not a glitch. If it is considered a glitch, so it is a major glitch and although it speed up a lot a run (RBO and any% at least) i think it cuts too much of the run and things start to be repetitive, like using PLASMA to kill Botwoon, Draygon and Phantoon... Anyway, this is just my opinion but i'd stay with the runs the way they are now, without major glitches, unless this turn to be a different category.

Quietus

2010-12-04 08:41:15 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

That's a valid point, but SDA defines any% as:

Quote:

The first type is the any% run, where you do whatever it takes to get to the end of the game as fast as possible, acquiring or ignoring items as you see fit.

So if this code enables a faster run, then all else is secondary. This means that regardless of what we think, if it's possible in-game (and not like a keyed in code at startup), then it will probably be accepted.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-04 09:48:51 am

2010-12-04 09:34:26 am

I know exactly what you mean reeve. When I watch the TAS I feel like it's repetitive killing three bosses with the plasma beam - x ray one rounder. And skipping a ton of items because I had litterally got them for free feels really weird and doing the game a diservice. Where as the old run felt like I was still playing the game within the games means so to speak, even with all the little glitches and tricks. This code however just breaks everything we've come to know and respect. I think from now on to eternity this will be considered a very controversial Trick/code/glitch.

I just had a thought. This is basically the consoles equivelent of the x ray climbing. They both skip a lot of the run out. Both controversial. And I believe both should be their own catagory

Quietus

2010-12-04 11:10:30 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

This is no more controversial than skipping Spore Spawn using the scrolling glitch, or skipping Bomb Torizo by arm pumping on PAL. When those things first appeared, people argued that they were game breaking.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-04 11:28:11 am

2010-12-04 11:27:26 am

But this gives you several items in one go without any skill to actually get. essentially shaving 5 to 7 minutes off your time. The other glitches require skill to get and seem more legitimate.

Reeve

2010-12-04 11:38:06 am

I think the problems here is what turns the run legitimate and what not. I don't think it's legitimate to skip the bosses of the game (Kraid, Phantoon, Draygon, Ridley and Mother Brain), like it's possible using the X-ray climb or the Space Time glitch that allows you to scape from Mother Brain's battle. I think that a trick/code/bug/glitch that gives you itens that you didn't collected is like cheating and i don't consider a run with such a trick legitimate too. The only thing i think could be used in a run (console) to speed up is to use the x-ray climb to skip the statue or anything in your way (except the bosses) as you still have to collect the itens and kill the bosses, but given that such a trick is not usefull (as far as i'm conerned) in a console run, things would be better stay as they are. Just my opinion.

MilesSMB

2010-12-04 11:45:30 am

Quote from Quietus:

(and not like a keyed in code at startup)

I'm failing to see why the time you input the code matters. In Sonic & Knuckles, the level select is activated by grabbling a vine/pulley in-game then pressing a button combination; I don't see why that would be legitimate, and that's not "inputted at startup".

Opium

2010-12-04 11:46:23 am

Yeah anything that allows you to skip the main tasks of the entire game, ie bosses, actually collecting needed items, is not really impressive in the end.

Xaggoth

2010-12-04 11:50:50 am

I tried out the GT Code last night on NTSC, pretty damn sweet. It was just with a random file halfway through the game though. I imagine an any% speedrun would kill phantoon first, gravity jump into lower norfair, perform code and kill ridley, kill kraid on the way to draygon and finish. Killing GT has got to be faster than the detours for boss rewards and plasma. Space jump and screw attack speed up a lot of rooms, draygon and kraid are killed faster.

I don't think this will change what sda thinks is a 100% run, nor will there be a 135% category since we can space/time beam to whatever percentage we want(?), TG would never allow this in a run, I think the only thing that changes is the any%.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-04 11:59:25 am

Behemoth: 2010-12-04 11:59:07 am

2010-12-04 11:58:42 am

It's better to kill kraid first and leave phantoon till last so you can x ray - plasma one rounder him

going to wrecked ship without speed booster would also be slow, not to mention getting across the missile lake without shinespark. The main advantage of doing the code early is that you don't have to pick up gravity suit when you go to wrecked ship later.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-04 01:21:32 pm

2010-12-04 01:21:14 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Like I said the Space Time Glitch would be the best bet for a Glitched Run I was thinking about planning a 100% run with the Space Time Glitch after my normal 100% run is complete.

Behemoth

2010-12-04 01:30:40 pm

do you mean starting the run from ceres having done the Space Time beam and going through the whole game?