Indie Lover
Thread title:
It's a stupid video proving an dumb point narrated by a guy who pronounces the "ch" and "sh" sounds in an annoying fashion.
Archived M2K2 Forum
Quote from kesvalk:
the only ppl i can see hating this video, is the ones that thought samus was a weak little girl in other M
So, a good majority of the fanbase then? At least that's how it feels based on the reactions I've seen both here and elsewhere.
Personally I didn't see Samus like that either, so I think some of his points are valid as well, but I already know that I'm in the minority as far as liking Other M is concerned.
I see Samus as a lost soul, not a weak little girl. However, given the bad localization it's hard to make some people think otherwise. I get the feeling most people are ignoring what you do with Samus in-game (ass-kickery) in Other M, even though that's how they projected her to be in every other game because of how she is portrayed in cutscenes, which is basically kind and caring, with feelings and regrets.
One aspect of the game doesn't automatically eliminate the other.
One aspect of the game doesn't automatically eliminate the other.
I've never really thought of her as human. I realize she was born human, but that all ended when that pedo-chozo got a hold of her and 'infused' some chozo dna. Add many years of training, incredibly advanced technology, and no interaction with humans throughout her development and you get something completely different than the quite ordinary girl in Other M.
One shall stand, one shall ball.
Quote from KingBroly:
I get the feeling most people are ignoring what you do with Samus in-game (ass-kickery) in Other M, even though that's how they projected her to be in every other game because of how she is portrayed in cutscenes, which is basically kind and caring, with feelings and regrets.
One aspect of the game doesn't automatically eliminate the other.
One aspect of the game doesn't automatically eliminate the other.
Ideally the cutscenes and gameplay should be pushing the same point, though, that's why it's difficult to really develop a character in an action game. When how the character acts in cutscense doesn't fit at all with the way they have to act to get anywhere in gameplay it starts to look silly. When a well liked character does this it starts to annoy people.
People had similar complaints with GTA4 and it's perfectly valid.
One shall stand, one shall ball.
Also note that when what by all accounts is an otherwise solid game has an aspect that is kinda dumb to the point of annoying people, it sticks out more. People didn't really like the story parts so they will target those and rip them to shreds because they are seen to drag the game down a bit.
ANKOKU
Quote from Opium:
I've never really thought of her as human. I realize she was born human, but that all ended when that pedo-chozo got a hold of her and 'infused' some chozo dna. Add many years of training, incredibly advanced technology, and no interaction with humans throughout her development and you get something completely different than the quite ordinary girl in Other M.
Nature over Nurture.
IT'S NATURE OVER NURTURE!
One shall stand, one shall ball.
Quote from Idkbutlike2:
It's a stupid video proving an dumb point narrated by a guy who pronounces the "ch" and "sh" sounds in an annoying fashion.
Nah, he does make some decent points, but he's kinda underselling the effect of projection. Metroid is an old series so people have had plenty of time to develop an idea of who Samus is. Nintendo absolutely had to be aware of this and should have found a better way of developing the character.
They could have introduced shades of this character in Fusion, that way you get an idea that she's sort of grown from the Other M events when you look back or set Other M after Fusion so it's a bit less jarring for people. Or set it as a prequel (lol) to Zero Mission that way it doesn't conflict with the entirety of the series afterward. It's really not out of the question or the realm of reason for people to be a bit annoyed with the character's direction. And there are certainly better ways to emphasize the femininity of the character without reaching so much for stereotypes.
A lot of the fan reaction is valid.
Almost happy
I really like TGO, but god he is so wrong on this one (not the first time he is though). Even if you remove all the annoying story, it's still a mediocre game compared to most Metroid games. Even if you ignore the fact that the authorization system is absolutely retarded it's no it's still a bad thing as it removes the need of item hunting and makes it very linear. Even if you ignore the butchering of Samus, the story is still no where near good. So its not like the only thing keeping it from being great is Samus personality. And he acts like adding dimensions to a character and a story to a game can only be a good thing, which is just ridiculous. Sure if they made a really good story and made Samus into a very interesting character that could have been a good thing, but they didn't and it isn't.
He started to bring up a really good point about peoples opinion of Samus being a projection due to her being a mostly blank slate, but then he apparently thinks that this invalidates peoples attachment to the character? Like, oh sure every metroid fan on the planet have independently come to pretty much the same idea about who Samus is as a character but this isn't cannon so fuck that we'll make her a whiny bitch who freezes up in fear when facing a foe she has already defeated about 74 times in the past. His generalizations about the people who think they destroyed Samus are also amazing.
Christ, now I've got myself all worked up.
He started to bring up a really good point about peoples opinion of Samus being a projection due to her being a mostly blank slate, but then he apparently thinks that this invalidates peoples attachment to the character? Like, oh sure every metroid fan on the planet have independently come to pretty much the same idea about who Samus is as a character but this isn't cannon so fuck that we'll make her a whiny bitch who freezes up in fear when facing a foe she has already defeated about 74 times in the past. His generalizations about the people who think they destroyed Samus are also amazing.
Christ, now I've got myself all worked up.
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
i think one problem with the story was going from almost no story to practically all story in 1 game. that's like shoving a whole loaf of bread at once without even cutting it down a bit.
not to mention all the experimental stuff that went in the game and required more focus group testing.
not to mention all the experimental stuff that went in the game and required more focus group testing.
Quote from Opium:
I've never really thought of her as human. I realize she was born human, but that all ended when that pedo-chozo got a hold of her and 'infused' some chozo dna. Add many years of training, incredibly advanced technology, and no interaction with humans throughout her development and you get something completely different than the quite ordinary girl in Other M.
this exactly
http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1122068p1.html
This article brings up some good points. Surprised to see that from IGN after they called the direction Other M took a huge step forward for Nintendo.
This article brings up some good points. Surprised to see that from IGN after they called the direction Other M took a huge step forward for Nintendo.
Quote from TheGreenManalishi:
Quote from Opium:
I've never really thought of her as human. I realize she was born human, but that all ended when that pedo-chozo got a hold of her and 'infused' some chozo dna. Add many years of training, incredibly advanced technology, and no interaction with humans throughout her development and you get something completely different than the quite ordinary girl in Other M.
this exactly
Only thing I'd like to note here is that by Other M Samus has had a few years at least to get acquainted with human society. Speaking of which, when did she leave Zebes and join the Federation anyway? In her teens right? So that's about 1/3 to 1/2 of her lifetime ago. It may not be long enough to influence Samus' personality to the level you feel she's at now, but it's something to consider.
Still, I guess I understand what you're trying to say about that, but personally I still don't see Samus as an ordinary girl after Other M's interpretation of her. Maybe I just don't know what an "ordinary girl" would be at this point.
And to be clear: I realize that we all formed our own interpretations of Samus based on the past Metroid games. I did it too, because there ARE elements of her personality sprinkled throughout nearly everything she does in all of them. But we didn't get much that was concrete (IE directly reinforced to the audience) about her until Fusion, and even there they were hinting at who she is in Other M to some degree. I didn't see it as being that far off from what I expected based on the elements we've seen over time.
And there are still elements of those unconfirmed pieces of her personality we imprinted on her in Other M. She still protects the troopers from those first cybernetic Pirates, she is still determined to go off and take out Sector Zero on her own knowing the cost, and then there's all of the other enemies and bosses she faces as efficiently as she always does without any problems whatsoever. (So she's still protective of others, she still is strong willed and independent, and she's still fully capable of handling herself if the need arises. Only one example of each, I know, but they're still there.) The only problems here are Adam and Ridley. Her interactions with both of them could've been handled better than they were, I'll admit, but they aren't as jarring to me as they are to almost everyone else for some reason. They still make enough sense to me for me to be able to accept them I guess.
If I had to guess, she spent 12-13 years on Zebes (so 15-16 is when she joined the GF), so that'd roughly be half of her life. In the manga, she seemed pretty irritable near the end of her time there. I would guess interacting with old birds is a huge difference when it comes to interacting with her peers. We also don't know much about her time on Zebes besides the idea of the Chozo training her.
As far as Other M goes, there's A LOT of pieces we could add to her just from what we saw in Other M (split personality comes to mind). I know people say she sounds whiny in Other M, but she was kind of that way near the end of Fusion, and I think for the most part, Fusion seems to be getting ignored in the conversation in terms of relevancy and accuracy.
As far as her interactions with Adam and Ridley, both seem to make sense to me. I can't really describe it, but I'm like 'yeah, okay, I'll go with that' even in the most stupid of situations. Although I still think the whole dynamic of Adam being a jerk to her the entire game was lost somehow, but it's clear to me that something is there.
As far as Other M goes, there's A LOT of pieces we could add to her just from what we saw in Other M (split personality comes to mind). I know people say she sounds whiny in Other M, but she was kind of that way near the end of Fusion, and I think for the most part, Fusion seems to be getting ignored in the conversation in terms of relevancy and accuracy.
As far as her interactions with Adam and Ridley, both seem to make sense to me. I can't really describe it, but I'm like 'yeah, okay, I'll go with that' even in the most stupid of situations. Although I still think the whole dynamic of Adam being a jerk to her the entire game was lost somehow, but it's clear to me that something is there.