Unlimited Possibilities

2006-02-03 06:53:11 pm

The IRW PB expansion's a bust, it can't be retrieved. I tried using a secretized Ruins Entryway for achieving IS (IS isn't SDA-legal anyway), and the best I got was either damage or restoring my armor.

Kamotu

2006-02-04 11:59:37 am

Quote from StefanvanDijke:

You probably still have to kill the seagoths cos the door is locked.

Is it really? As far as I remember, all it does is turn the door into a wave door, not lock it.

StefanvanDijke

2006-02-04 02:05:38 pm

It probably locks when you trigger the fight then. It would be nice to see what happens when you use the IS trick before the fight, but I'm afraid you activate the cutscene rather than getting the beam.

Master ZED

2006-02-08 06:01:53 am

Quote from StefanvanDijke:

It probably locks when you trigger the fight then.

Yep, and it unlocks when you retrieve the Wave Beam.

Quote from StefanvanDijke:

It would be nice to see what happens when you use the IS trick before the fight, but I'm afraid you activate the cutscene rather than getting the beam.

That's exactly what happens, unfortunately.

EDIT: Found a new bug in Echoes. It's a bit complicated (maybe too much for practical use), and you're better off using an AR to get it (moonjump specifically), but it is certainly a very interesting spawn of Infinite Speed. For lack of a better name, I dub this one Morph Ball invulnerability (yes, invulnerability, you read that right).

Part 1, in which I accomplish all but the final step.
Part 2, in which I finish the bug and show off the new find a little (I'd only get this if you don't have an AR and don't want to try this... which I certainly couldn't blame you for).

This is the best setup I could get unfortunately (even more unfortunately, you can only do this once), and it's all because of a necessary evil to the formula; the light show bug. And if you want MBI, you'll have to want it bad to get through that obstacle. The rest is rather easy.

First, you must have the Map Station at GFMC Compound active, its door open, and the Kinetic Orb Cannon active. That means the cutscene must be triggered prior to attempting this. Once the compound is prepared, you must acquire Infinite Speed. I used the Communication Area/Storage Cavern B door (of course). Head for GFMC Compound and bomb open the door to Sacred Bridge.

Go in, turn around towards the GFMC door, and just about half a morph ball's length away from it, roll toward GFMC and boost into the room. It should take a couple seconds for the game to visually freeze (if it's immediate and you see the cannon fire, you f'ed up, try again). Next, the scene will switch over to the cannon, but it won't escape from the ground; the scene will visually freeze again before anything moves. Start rapidly tapping X now because when the scene changes next, GFMC Compound will be gone, leaving you in SW space (the cannon will never fire; this may be the root cause of MBI). Before the camera goes back to 1st person, check your map to see where you are and where you're facing, because you're about to go blind (I botched this in the video :(). GFMC Compound's complete disappearance is temporary as it's about to secretize; get away from the ledge into the room as quick as you can. Otherwise, bye bye.

At this point, it really helps (read; it's rather necessary) to kill the music and maybe turn the volume up. The point now is to reach the Map Station as it's the only thing that can heal the light show bug. Because the light show also kills your map even with HUD Lag off in this case (usually, it doesn't unless you morph again), your tools are further limited than usual. Your only means of navigation are the sounds of your footsteps, jumps, landings, and the warning meter telling you when you're close to the fire on the ship. Not only that, but the game is slowed down, so if you think you can judge by your speed, think again.

Is it any wonder why I had to dedicate three hours just to get from a cannon to a station?

This is about the only advice I can give:

1. Go to the compound before you attempt this and listen to the sounds of walking on the ground and the ship; it helps to be familiar with them beforehand.
2. If you don't know what surface you're walking on, start turning and listen.
3. If you don't hear yourself walking, you're either in SW space (at first, just ignore this because the room isn't back yet) or you're against a wall. I hope you remember your lessons from infancy about crawling, walking, and dealing with walls.
4. When the warning meter goes up, you're getting close to the ship. Start listening for a metallic walking sound now and pray you either hit the ramp or get close enough to the fire so that you can jump into the side of the ship (and also pray you're facing the right direction).
5. The warning meter will go down to 0 as you begin the final part of the walk to the map station, so if you're still hearing the clank of the ship's floor as the meter disappears, you should probably keep moving.

If you're wondering how long a successful walk can take, it wouldn't take long if you could see of course, or if you luck out. Me, well, there's a 10 minute gap between my videos for good reason. This is also the first time I made the trip completely.

If you hit the Map Station, congrats! MBI is yours now. This particular bug is peculiar and amazingly durable for a glitch. It only works in MB mode (though the second video shows it working standing up after getting hurt by fire, don't ask because that's the first time I ever saw that), but you should be invulnerable to everything but Dark Samus' "super missile" and "shinespark" attacks, just like invulnerability in multiplayer. Yes, it even negates the dark atmosphere (look at your energy for proof) and reflects nearly all projectiles (again, DS' super missile is about the only thing I know of right now that won't because of prior AR experiments). There's a minor camera bug with this initally, but an elevator or such can cure that.

Yeah, an elevator.

The best news of all is that the only thing I have yet to test in getting rid of the bug is Screw Attack; that means that aside from death, quitting/powering down the console, or using another Kinetic Orb Cannon (the MB launchers in (Dark) Torvus underground, such as in the transit tunnels, don't count), the bug will stay with you forever. Save Stations, Map Stations (dur), the Gunship, Bomb slots, spinners, cutscenes, water, even elevators don't affect MBI. Just don't use another cannon and (aside from SA maybe) it should never leave your side. When you unmorph, it won't be there, when you're fully morphed once more, it comes back. Go ahead and show it off against Spider Guardian; the poor bastard can't touch you now. Twisted Evil

There is another effect to the bug; a strange ability to open some doors and depending on the room, kill enemies that come near Samus. In Reactor Core for instance, Rezbits will explode instantly if you come too close, and the Quad will not only lose its head, but if you come near the body after it spins, it'll disappear, evidently dead since the forcefields disappear. Same in Dynamo Works. It doesn't work in every room, but that's just a sideshow anyway. You can see this aspect in Communication Area at the end of the second movie. It doesn't seem to affect bosses though (DS and Spider Guardian weren't fazed).

If anyone has any ideas on another way to activate MBI that might be easier, do post. Remember that you need IS, a cannon, and a way to heal the light show bug. I'll post/edit this when I get around to testing Screw Attack.

EDIT 2: Screw Attack does not remove MBI. However, terminal falls do still hurt you.

[quote="StefanvanDijke"]It probably locks when you trigger the fight then.[/quote]
Yep, and it unlocks when you retrieve the Wave Beam.

[quote="StefanvanDijke"]It would be nice to see what happens when you use the IS trick before the fight, but I'm afraid you activate the cutscene rather than getting the beam.[/quote]
That's exactly what happens, unfortunately.

EDIT: Found a new bug in Echoes.  It's a bit complicated (maybe too much for practical use), and you're better off using an AR to get it (moonjump specifically), but it is certainly a very interesting spawn of Infinite Speed.  For lack of a better name, I dub this one Morph Ball invulnerability (yes, [b][i]invulnerability[/i][/b], you read that right).

[url=http://www.zeromission.co.uk/master_zed/MBIpart1.mpg]Part 1[/url], in which I accomplish all but the final step.
[url=http://www.zeromission.co.uk/master_zed/MBIpart2.mpg]Part 2[/url], in which I finish the bug and show off the new find a little (I'd only get this if you don't have an AR and don't want to try this... which I certainly couldn't blame you for).

This is the best setup I could get unfortunately (even more unfortunately, you can only do this once), and it's all because of a necessary evil to the formula; the light show bug.  And if you want MBI, you'll have to want it bad to get through that obstacle.  The rest is rather easy.

First, you must have the Map Station at GFMC Compound active, its door open, and the Kinetic Orb Cannon active.  That means the cutscene must be triggered prior to attempting this.  Once the compound is prepared, you must acquire Infinite Speed.  I used the Communication Area/Storage Cavern B door (of course).  Head for GFMC Compound and bomb open the door to Sacred Bridge.

Go in, turn around towards the GFMC door, and just about half a morph ball's length away from it, roll toward GFMC and boost into the room.  It should take a couple seconds for the game to visually freeze (if it's immediate and you see the cannon fire, you f'ed up, try again).  Next, the scene will switch over to the cannon, but it won't escape from the ground; the scene will visually freeze again before anything moves.  Start rapidly tapping X now because when the scene changes next, GFMC Compound will be gone, leaving you in SW space (the cannon will never fire; this may be the root cause of MBI).  Before the camera goes back to 1st person, check your map to see where you are and where you're facing, because you're about to go blind (I botched this in the video :().  GFMC Compound's complete disappearance is temporary as it's about to secretize; get away from the ledge into the room as quick as you can.  Otherwise, bye bye.

At this point, it really helps (read; it's rather necessary) to kill the music and maybe turn the volume up.  The point now is to reach the Map Station as it's the only thing that can heal the light show bug.  Because the light show also kills your map even with HUD Lag off in this case (usually, it doesn't unless you morph again), your tools are further limited than usual.  Your only means of navigation are the sounds of your footsteps, jumps, landings, and the warning meter telling you when you're close to the fire on the ship.  Not only that, but the game is slowed down, so if you think you can judge by your speed, think again.

Is it any wonder why I had to dedicate three hours just to get from a cannon to a station?

This is about the only advice I can give:

1. Go to the compound before you attempt this and listen to the sounds of walking on the ground and the ship; it helps to be familiar with them beforehand.
2. If you don't know what surface you're walking on, start turning and listen.
3. If you don't hear yourself walking, you're either in SW space (at first, just ignore this because the room isn't back yet) or you're against a wall.  I hope you remember your lessons from infancy about crawling, walking, and dealing with walls.
4. When the warning meter goes up, you're getting close to the ship.  Start listening for a metallic walking sound now and pray you either hit the ramp or get close enough to the fire so that you can jump into the side of the ship (and also pray you're facing the right direction).
5. The warning meter will go down to 0 as you begin the final part of the walk to the map station, so if you're still hearing the clank of the ship's floor as the meter disappears, you should probably keep moving.

If you're wondering how long a successful walk can take, it wouldn't take long if you could see of course, or if you luck out.  Me, well, there's a 10 minute gap between my videos for good reason.  This is also the first time I made the trip completely.

If you hit the Map Station, congrats!  MBI is yours now.  This particular bug is peculiar and amazingly durable for a glitch.  It only works in MB mode (though the second video shows it working standing up after getting hurt by fire, don't ask because that's the first time I ever saw that), but you should be invulnerable to everything but Dark Samus' "super missile" and "shinespark" attacks, just like invulnerability in multiplayer.  Yes, it even negates the dark atmosphere (look at your energy for proof) and reflects nearly all projectiles (again, DS' super missile is about the only thing I know of right now that won't because of prior AR experiments).  There's a minor camera bug with this initally, but an elevator or such can cure that.

Yeah, an elevator.

The best news of all is that the only thing I have yet to test in getting rid of the bug is Screw Attack; that means that aside from death, quitting/powering down the console, or using another Kinetic Orb Cannon (the MB launchers in (Dark) Torvus underground, such as in the transit tunnels, don't count), the bug will stay with you forever.  Save Stations, Map Stations (dur), the Gunship, Bomb slots, spinners, cutscenes, water, even elevators don't affect MBI.  Just don't use another cannon and (aside from SA maybe) it should never leave your side.  When you unmorph, it won't be there, when you're fully morphed once more, it comes back.  Go ahead and show it off against Spider Guardian; the poor bastard can't touch you now. :twisted:

There is another effect to the bug; a strange ability to open some doors and depending on the room, kill enemies that come near Samus.  In Reactor Core for instance, Rezbits will explode instantly if you come too close, and the Quad will not only lose its head, but if you come near the body after it spins, it'll disappear, evidently dead since the forcefields disappear.  Same in Dynamo Works.  It doesn't work in every room, but that's just a sideshow anyway.  You can see this aspect in Communication Area at the end of the second movie.  It doesn't seem to affect bosses though (DS and Spider Guardian weren't fazed).

If anyone has any ideas on another way to activate MBI that might be easier, do post.  Remember that you need IS, a cannon, and a way to heal the light show bug.  I'll post/edit this when I get around to testing Screw Attack.

EDIT 2: Screw Attack does not remove MBI.  However, terminal falls do still hurt you.

13M13

2006-02-08 08:04:14 am

l'appel du vide

Kick. Ass.

Andrew Mills

2006-02-08 03:49:12 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Master ZED:

*lots of cool stuff*

8) 8)

That's some sterling stuff right there Master ZED. 8) Congrats on the find and the legwork done to assertain what kills it and what doesn't. I doubt if this is practical in a speed run, but maybe it's of help (or may eventually be of help) to those who do low% runs (with or without SWs).

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-02-08 10:20:49 pm

Lol. edit.

Now you HAVE to delete this, nate. :P

Yoshi348

2006-02-08 10:25:11 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Master ZED:

Yes, it even negates the dark atmosphere (look at your energy for proof)

Nintendo65

(user is banned)

2006-02-08 10:37:15 pm

Quote from Lazylen:

the major question is this: Do you take damage in the dark world if you're in morph ball form?

Bien, naturellement vous dommages de prise.
Well, of course you take damage. Rolling Eyes

nate

2006-02-08 10:40:11 pm

today on "dilemmas i never thought i'd have": do i delete that message, stash it as evidence of that guy's stupidity, or simply leave it for other people to laugh at (as laugh they undoubtedly will)?

Nintendo65

(user is banned)

2006-02-08 10:55:28 pm

Quote from nate:

today on "dilemmas i never thought i'd have": do i delete that message, stash it as evidence of that guy's stupidity, or simply leave it for other people to laugh at (as laugh they undoubtedly will)?

My message or LazyLen's?

Trebor

2006-02-09 01:29:00 am

Damn ZED, that is kickass.

Keep up the good work with this.

Master ZED

2006-02-09 04:06:53 am

Well, there is one slightly bad thing about MBI. The Boost Ball shield is overriden. About all I can think of right now that this affects is the glass in front of the door to Checkpoint Station (because that's what I ran into); you can't break it with MBI active. If you want to fight DS2 with it, you'd better prepare beforehand or map out a SW route.

Cracklingdarksamus

2006-02-09 10:50:27 am

totally awsome. I wish i had a AR but i dont :( I dont even know where to get one. But that would rock if you found that in the REAL game, without using an AR.

Master ZED

2006-02-09 01:36:08 pm

Quote from Cracklingdarksamus:

But that would rock if you found that in the REAL game, without using an AR.

I said you're better off using one, not that it's necessary. The whole purpose of drawing up that plan for GFMC Compound was to see the bug in the normal game and it worked, so I posted it and the movies of myself achieving it. If it didn't work without an AR, I wouldn't have said anything.

doninss

2006-02-10 11:16:56 pm

Quote from Master ZED:

Quote from Cracklingdarksamus:

But that would rock if you found that in the REAL game, without using an AR.

I said you're better off using one, not that it's necessary. The whole purpose of drawing up that plan for GFMC Compound was to see the bug in the normal game and it worked, so I posted it and the movies of myself achieving it. If it didn't work without an AR, I wouldn't have said anything.

I must admit, I didn't see how MJ could help until I tried it with. I still ended up unmorphing just so I could hear Samus footsteps.

Master ZED

2006-02-10 11:56:11 pm

Quote from doninss:

I must admit, I didn't see how MJ could help until I tried it with. I still ended up unmorphing just so I could hear Samus footsteps.

Well, for anyone else curious, MJ helps in that you can stay within the bounds of the room until it secretizes, then you can roll to a door and load/escape the room all without getting the light show. This is how I was testing the bug in Reactor Core before I came up with GFMC.

On a side note, Reactor Core gave me something strange yesterday as I was retrieving MBI again; an invincible Rezbit. Until I morphed (which apparently took its new ability away), nothing I had could touch it. I don't think you can replicate this in GFMC, but if you find an invincible War Wasp in there after getting to the station, MBI's the cause.

doninss

2006-02-11 04:24:25 pm

Somehow, I thought the map station was an integral part. Rolling Eyes

*Goes to search for smart pills on ebay.*

Master ZED

2006-02-11 05:37:22 pm

Quote from doninss:

Somehow, I thought the map station was an integral part. Rolling Eyes

*Goes to search for smart pills on ebay.*

Only for getting rid of the light show bug. Of course, if you don't unmorph in the first place, you don't need something in the room you're in to get rid of the bug, you just need somewhere not behind a colored door that's not yellow. Personally, I use the light in Sanctuary Map Station, but the Save Station would be more effective time-wise.

PeGe

2006-02-18 03:42:19 pm

Quote from AstDerek:

Player's Choice: Unable to find the right stick position to get the glitch working... or is it another version difference?

Well, it works on PAL version, so why not player's choise?

nate

2006-02-18 06:15:53 pm

because they're unrelated?

Master ZED

2006-02-19 07:10:05 pm

Good and bad news for you IS junkies out there!

It turns out the Sonic Boom, while silent, still works during the light show. I was able to use it to open the portal in Temple Assembly Site. That means that travel between dimensions at least is still possible. The bad part, as I suspected from studying the cutscene blackout bug at Hive Access Tunnel, is that portals do NOT remove the light show bug. That means we're still screwed getting the Dungeon key right now.

I also haven't been able to open doors with it, as strange as that may sound now that portals work. If I can prove (to myself) that my current failure is a case of poor aim, I'll edit this post.

Another oddity occurred at Dungeon before I got the chance to use the Sonic Boom, however; when I used IS, I went through an unactivated portal from the floor. I was trying to retrieve the ST key in the hopes that I could prove the Sonic Boom worked by performing the Dungeon key Light Suit skip for the first time, but I got the portal instead. That didn't cure the light show bug, and when I used the Boom to activate the portal, the game crashed. I suspect this may have been because I reactivated the portal without dumping the room (testing where to fire the Sonic Boom), but it was definitely inactive again by the time I got IS. I could try to get this again for a movie if there's interest.

EDIT: Another tidbit of good news; the Echoes version also responds kindly when a portal is in a room. Not going into the matter of why I didn't make this connection months ago, this explains why IS can retrieve the ST key in Dungeon and why there's no crash at Path of Eyes or Temple Assembly Site even with the lack of MB-related usable objects in the room. I don't know about scan-activated portals though.

And before anyone sees the Dungeon bit above and gets an idea, the portal at Hall of Honored Dead is truly fake; the game crashes if you use IS after the Seeker puzzle is solved.

EDIT 2: If you've never tried the AR/IS/Wavebuster experiment in Prime 1 (IS breaks the beams, the light from the nonexistant projectile beaming as if it were everywhere and nowhere at once), the Dark Pirate Commandos at Meeting Grounds were kind enough to provide a pic from Echoes:

I would've made a movie, but a picture's more than enough. Their "dark beams" also get broken by Infinite Speed/light show in the same manner (if you've read my EL'ed/secretized room notes, this is the real reason the Rezbit gatlings were broken... I forgot to correct that), and this is the result other than the lack of a black blob being shot at you. If you're curious, their grenades are intact.

I have an idea about the first portal, not in breaking it but in using it a second time. The idea is that since HCB doesn't crash from IS either, the portal is real and may be reusable like what happened to me in Dungeon. I noticed there was no HCB SW movie though... if anyone can make me a movie of that SW, that would be terrific. Yes, IS'ing into the first portal if possible at all would take an AR, I don't care about that. I just want to see if there's any way to get into that other room after the cutscene.

Good and bad news for you IS junkies out there!

It turns out the Sonic Boom, while silent, still works during the light show.  I was able to use it to open the portal in Temple Assembly Site.  That means that travel between dimensions at least is still possible.  The bad part, as I suspected from studying the cutscene blackout bug at Hive Access Tunnel, is that portals do NOT remove the light show bug.  That means we're still screwed getting the Dungeon key right now.

I also haven't been able to open doors with it, as strange as that may sound now that portals work.  If I can prove (to myself) that my current failure is a case of poor aim, I'll edit this post.

Another oddity occurred at Dungeon before I got the chance to use the Sonic Boom, however; when I used IS, I went through an unactivated portal from the floor.  I was trying to retrieve the ST key in the hopes that I could prove the Sonic Boom worked by performing the Dungeon key Light Suit skip for the first time, but I got the portal instead.  That didn't cure the light show bug, and when I used the Boom to activate the portal, the game crashed.  I suspect this may have been because I reactivated the portal without dumping the room (testing where to fire the Sonic Boom), but it was definitely inactive again by the time I got IS.  I could try to get this again for a movie if there's interest.

EDIT: Another tidbit of good news; the Echoes version also responds kindly when a portal is in a room.  Not going into the matter of why I didn't make this connection months ago, this explains why IS can retrieve the ST key in Dungeon and why there's no crash at Path of Eyes or Temple Assembly Site even with the lack of MB-related usable objects in the room.  I don't know about scan-activated portals though.

And before anyone sees the Dungeon bit above and gets an idea, the portal at Hall of Honored Dead is truly fake; the game crashes if you use IS after the Seeker puzzle is solved.

EDIT 2: If you've never tried the AR/IS/Wavebuster experiment in Prime 1 (IS breaks the beams, the light from the nonexistant projectile beaming as if it were everywhere and nowhere at once), the Dark Pirate Commandos at Meeting Grounds were kind enough to provide a pic from Echoes:

[URL=http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bdbdpc1ub.png][img]http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6303/bdbdpc1ub.th.png[/img][/URL]

I would've made a movie, but a picture's more than enough.  Their "dark beams" also get broken by Infinite Speed/light show in the same manner (if you've read my EL'ed/secretized room notes, this is the real reason the Rezbit gatlings were broken... I forgot to correct that), and this is the result other than the lack of a black blob being shot at you.  If you're curious, their grenades are intact.

I have an idea about the first portal, not in breaking it but in using it a second time.  The idea is that since HCB doesn't crash from IS either, the portal is real and may be reusable like what happened to me in Dungeon.  I noticed there was no HCB SW movie though... if anyone can make me a movie of that SW, that would be terrific.  Yes, IS'ing into the first portal if possible at all would take an AR, I don't care about that.  I just want to see if there's any way to get into that other room after the cutscene.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-02-20 09:16:58 am

Sorry about being a noob, but can someone explain to me what the "Light Show Glitch" is?

XtraX

2006-02-20 12:18:26 pm

First,get the glitch like it is explained in the first post. unmorph afterwards and you will get the (stupid) Light show bug.
Look at this:
http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/mmg2.avi

And Master ZED, I love your work with that glitch :)

Laney

(user is banned)

2006-02-21 03:35:58 am

when you unmorph your armorless morphingball you get this bug