Quote from Odylg:
Quote from Arkarian:
save-warping
what what WHAT? since when? what'd i miss? and how does one do such a thing?
what what WHAT? since when? what'd i miss? and how does one do such a thing?
Archived M2K2 Forum
what what WHAT? since when? what'd i miss? and how does one do such a thing?
Forgive me if this question has already been answered but knowing that these new tricks (especially the "Flickerball" trick) are FUBAR, can someone tell how (if they even save time and they'll get accepted) much time they will save? Thinking mainly for the any% and 100% MP NTSC runs or maybe its more suitable to create a new category?
Quote from TimeLess:
The 'unlimited possibilites' part is somewhat limited.
Not before we knew how it worked exactly, which is when this thread was made. At that point, it wasn't known what the bug could do, hence the title.
Quote from TimeLess:
The bug only works with doors that are blue, which morph bombs can open 
Uhhhhh... no. It works with any door that meets the criteria, Main Reactor in MP2 for example. You just can't open any doors that aren't blue once the bug is active (save for Echoes' PB doors).
Early Artifact of Sun
Sorry about the jumps at the beginning, I think Firefox's memory leak struck when I wasn't looking and affected the video. Anywho, the video starts right after I gain IS, so in between that box and the wall at Chapel of the Elders is where you can get the bug going. After that, you just have to boost around the artifact half of the room and voila. Note that when stuck with those boxes, the game slows a little, and I don't know if that affects the clock or not for you speed runners (if this is even useful, I dunno if it would be).
I also recorded the trip to the save station at Phendrana Shorelines, bagging the frozen Missile expansion on the way so there are at least two Plasma Beam sequence breaks here. If anyone wants to see the full 3-4 minute video of gaining IS, early Sun, that expansion and my bumbling trip to the save station (my curiosity dropped me in the water... eheh Sweat), just say the word.
Oh, yeah, you'll want to open the Wave door first of course. Whether this can be used for NBMB Wave Beam... you'd have to be really lucky that you don't get frozen by the Baby Sheegoths for a whole minute or so if it even works in the first place. They can't break the boxes or hit you with snowballs, but their breath goes through walls and such.
Sorry about the jumps at the beginning, I think Firefox's memory leak struck when I wasn't looking and affected the video. Anywho, the video starts right after I gain IS, so in between that box and the wall at Chapel of the Elders is where you can get the bug going. After that, you just have to boost around the artifact half of the room and voila. Note that when stuck with those boxes, the game slows a little, and I don't know if that affects the clock or not for you speed runners (if this is even useful, I dunno if it would be).
I also recorded the trip to the save station at Phendrana Shorelines, bagging the frozen Missile expansion on the way so there are at least two Plasma Beam sequence breaks here. If anyone wants to see the full 3-4 minute video of gaining IS, early Sun, that expansion and my bumbling trip to the save station (my curiosity dropped me in the water... eheh Sweat), just say the word.
Oh, yeah, you'll want to open the Wave door first of course. Whether this can be used for NBMB Wave Beam... you'd have to be really lucky that you don't get frozen by the Baby Sheegoths for a whole minute or so if it even works in the first place. They can't break the boxes or hit you with snowballs, but their breath goes through walls and such.
I must admit, I'm a little foggy on the details of this, as I haven't really been paying attention. But with that vid, I'm definitely awake now.
That definitely seems like it would save time, depending on how long it takes to get (the?) IS going (a detail I'm foggy on), and how you get out of (the?) IS (again, a detail I'm foggy on).
At least in low% (and probably any%, seeing how it's the same route), that would probably cut out the Thardus Dash, I think. This is assuming you can actually use this trick in a low% eventually.
You know, I'm pretty sure those two foggy details could be explained for me if I could see the entire vid, ZED. So, if you don't mind, I'd like to see it.
That definitely seems like it would save time, depending on how long it takes to get (the?) IS going (a detail I'm foggy on), and how you get out of (the?) IS (again, a detail I'm foggy on).
At least in low% (and probably any%, seeing how it's the same route), that would probably cut out the Thardus Dash, I think. This is assuming you can actually use this trick in a low% eventually.
You know, I'm pretty sure those two foggy details could be explained for me if I could see the entire vid, ZED. So, if you don't mind, I'd like to see it.
I redid the video because the other one wasted time on deep water:
http://www.zeromission.co.uk/master_zed/Full_Early_Sun.mpg
That, and I didn't want to look too much like a moron.
While I'm posting, IS can also be used to retrieve the frozen Missile expansion in Ice Ruins East. I can't get up to the ledge to head to Ice Ruins West, and I dunno if you can (I think you could, but eh), so I haven't tested getting the frozen Power Bomb expansion.
EDIT: The jumping wasn't a problem with my capture brick; Infinite Speed in Prime 1 gives the camera a minor case of the jitters. I had forgotten that particular nuisance. :\
http://www.zeromission.co.uk/master_zed/Full_Early_Sun.mpg
That, and I didn't want to look too much like a moron.
While I'm posting, IS can also be used to retrieve the frozen Missile expansion in Ice Ruins East. I can't get up to the ledge to head to Ice Ruins West, and I dunno if you can (I think you could, but eh), so I haven't tested getting the frozen Power Bomb expansion.
EDIT: The jumping wasn't a problem with my capture brick; Infinite Speed in Prime 1 gives the camera a minor case of the jitters. I had forgotten that particular nuisance. :\
Yep, it does take around a full minute to get it working (you won't get any better). The Artifact of Sun was probably the best chance IS had of making an impression on a speed run, given how much backtracking it takes to fetch it, but I don't know the best speed run route or how cutting the return to Chozo Ice Temple would affect it.
Even with a full minute worth of setup, this still may save time. I haven't given it a lot of thought, but a route revision may be possible that includes this that saves time (it may very well be possible that it saves time on the current route, but I'm not sure). This really needs to be explored before it is dismissed as too slow.
First thing that came to my mind was that, for the first magmoor segment you:
-go to phendrana
-get boostball
-get wavebeam
-use the glitch to get the artifact of sun
-back to magmoor, and get the artifact on the chozo statue
-continue as you normally would
With this you skip the thardus jump and the way back to the two atifacts at the end of the game. Instead you take the short route after you did far phendrana and head straight to the tallon elevator. I haven't timed this and maybe there's another route. The problem with this route is no ice spreader :(
-go to phendrana
-get boostball
-get wavebeam
-use the glitch to get the artifact of sun
-back to magmoor, and get the artifact on the chozo statue
-continue as you normally would
With this you skip the thardus jump and the way back to the two atifacts at the end of the game. Instead you take the short route after you did far phendrana and head straight to the tallon elevator. I haven't timed this and maybe there's another route. The problem with this route is no ice spreader :(
I wonder if this really works but this is an idea. What I understood was is that once you unmorph from the flickerball you're doomed so:
After boostball get IS as soon as possible, get a powerbomb, bombjump your way up the ice temple, get the artifact of sun and get wavebame again with the IS glitch. You probably still have to kill the seagoths cos the door is locked.
You only have to perform the glitch once but getting up the ice temple without unmorphing is slow if its even possible.
Has anybody tried getting wave beam before finishing the fight with the seagoths. And in a pal run the early powerbomb saves time on the wave trooper battle too.
This still sucks, there are too many things that might not work
After boostball get IS as soon as possible, get a powerbomb, bombjump your way up the ice temple, get the artifact of sun and get wavebame again with the IS glitch. You probably still have to kill the seagoths cos the door is locked.
You only have to perform the glitch once but getting up the ice temple without unmorphing is slow if its even possible.
Has anybody tried getting wave beam before finishing the fight with the seagoths. And in a pal run the early powerbomb saves time on the wave trooper battle too.
This still sucks, there are too many things that might not work
Quote from Andrew Mills:
What about collecting teh boostball, get that PB exp in the 2nd rom after boostball using IS, go to sheegoth, PB him for an instakill, IS the artifact of sun and continue on.
Would that be of any use on an any% run?
Would that be of any use on an any% run?
No, you can't do that. Chapel of the Elders is only the second place found in the entirety of Phendrana that permits IS without the use of secret worlds. Now, there may be a way to get to Ice Ruins West from the chapel with just morph ball, if you can bomb jump up to IRE's other door. Even then, I have yet to try IS in IRW, so I don't know if it could snag the expansion, and I can't imagine that saving any time at all anyway.
If someone's found an IS spot in IRW or Phendrana Canyon though, you may wanna cough it up right about now.