THE ONE ROOM HACK

2007-12-13 07:26:23 am

The thing about spikes, is that they seem more sensitive than any type of block. I mean, it's like Samus doesn't even have to fully touch the spike tile to get hurt/knocked back. Plus, you can hit them from the side, which is stupid. They're obviously not sharp on the sides. Or wait...are they? aiwebs_016

Black Telomeres

2007-12-13 07:30:06 am

I always considered spike blocks in Super Metroid to be unintentionally hilarious. Unless they're "moving" then they can't hurt you. I guess Samus' suit can stand up to non-moving spikes, but once those spikes start to bounce up and down, oh no! Although I'm not talking about ones wherein people just forget to set the FX1 to make them move; just in the reg. game.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-12-13 07:47:37 am

Lol, are you sure? I remember making a mini hack in smile, and if the tiles were set to "spike" then they would still hurt Samus. Just not if you used the graphic only.

Maybe it was just the knock back animation, and not the damage? Who knows...that's funny though extra_smug

Black Telomeres

2007-12-13 08:11:36 am

Well thats what I meant by not counting the times when you don't go into the FX1 and make them move. I mean in the original SM, they sometimes have spikes that aren't moving and when the designers put in spikes like these, they don't damage Samus - like in the room right before Draygon. Obviously these are just spikes graphically and they show up as air blocks in the editor, but for some reason, the designers - for the purposes of their level design - felt that spikes were only dangerous to Samus if they were doing their little bobbing up and down.

Edward_Tohr

2007-12-13 01:58:55 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Well, there are the spikes at the end of the Gauntlet that you need to go through... they move, but don't hurt you... Mind you, they aren't "real" spikes, so...

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-13 02:14:54 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Fano7:

I stoped playing when I got to a missile gate with no missiles and got stuck (after speed mockball). I've tried to like this hack, but I just can't. I needed missiles for a gate that took forever to get past, amoung other things.

I'm actually really sorry about that. Because on many of my play throughs I get there and think "oh shit I forgot to recharge at the ship!" Usually I made it so you'de want to go to the ship to charge up but the speedball to pbs can be.. a leap of faith if you don't go to your ship first..

As for the spikes everyone else is mentioning, I suppose I can cut back on them. I wanted a challenge, but Even I get fed up with my own hack during some playthroughs.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-13 02:54:57 pm

The spikes I thought were really dumb were the disguised ones next to the map station. What was the point in making the piping spiky??? That annoyed the hell out of me in versions 3 and 4.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-13 03:02:36 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from FirePhoenix0:

The spikes I thought were really dumb were the disguised ones next to the map station. What was the point in making the piping spiky??? That annoyed the hell out of me in versions 3 and 4.

They became electric (added a little nuance of a chozo infusing the pipes with electricity (you can see it when you fall down from the top of the elevator shaft))

I'm making a much easier version of this hack as we speak, many spikes are removed, you don't have to do a midair horizontal spark around the energy station (my idea of a light beacon). Some grapple blocks are now bomb blocks, etc.. It's going to be much easier but I won't post this version unless someone asks for it.

Edward_Tohr

2007-12-13 03:05:29 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

*asks for it*

Even if it is just so that I can continue to say that I've played each version of it. :P

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-13 03:15:36 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Edward_Tohr:

*asks for it*

Even if it is just so that I can continue to say that I've played each version of it. :P

Here you go.

attachment:

ONE ROOM HACK EASY VERSION.IPS

Spoo

2007-12-13 10:49:45 pm

Finally beat the "final" version. Finding the last power bomb gave me
a lot of trouble. I was sure it would be

in the "cathedral".

Is the

X-ray scope in the final version?

If so, any hints?

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-13 11:21:41 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Spoo:

Is the

X-ray scope in the final version?

If so, any hints?

Yeah, It's in the chozodian shrine. Would have made finding the two final powerbombs much easier. :(

Edward_Tohr

2007-12-13 11:22:39 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Okay, I played through the easy version. My (vague) impression:

Easier, yet still challenging. Good job... I think I'll give the "normal" version another run, now... :P

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-13 11:32:54 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Edward_Tohr:

Okay, I played through the easy version. My (vague) impression:

Easier, yet still challenging. Good job... I think I'll give the "normal" version another run, now... :P

I'm glad you've beared with all the versions :)
It is my hope to expand this one room into a quadrant of four rooms encompassing some of the main subworld graphic sets. Considering the reception I've got from this, I'll keep the final hard version intact with some minor adjustments that made more sense to me while working on the easy version. Although you'll get most items in the first room (the one we all know too well), the other rooms will base more on your strength with enemies, thus making the additional upgrades, tanks, and ammo essential.

Kriole

2007-12-14 01:44:26 am

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

Now that you have updated it I have to release the old IPS file combined with my TAS. That makes me sad panda. I'm already 10000 frames into it and I got everything I need except super missiles.

Cardweaver

2007-12-14 02:21:53 am

I didn't know you were TASing this! This is gonna be awesome... short, but awesome.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-14 03:07:19 am

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Kriole:

Now that you have updated it I have to release the old IPS file combined with my TAS. That makes me sad panda. I'm already 10000 frames into it and I got everything I need except super missiles.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
I'm excited to see the TAS :-D

Black Telomeres

2007-12-14 09:03:39 am

Anyway, I finally got around to playing this hack. The level design reminds me a lot of SFI because it uses tiles in crazy and unexpected ways that haven't really been done before. I really like how it loops around insanely and different parts of different puzzles connect and flow into each other, while they're still kept seperate by well-placed SB blocks or crumble blocks, etc. Although the chaotic nature of the room layout leads to problems of trying to figure out how to get to specific places, due to the fact that some paths intersect with others and sometimes you have to go in one direction to get to an item in the opposite direction because of the pathways. The insane tiling can also lead to similar confusion problems. But at least you won't get bored looking at it.

Anyway, here's some constructive criticism for when/if you make another hack:
-Some passages could've used a bit more of a hint so people know they exist - the grapple beam's passage for example. I know it can be quite hard to come up with something that's intuitive and somewhere just between obvious and unobvious.
-There are a couple places you can get stuck - such as the crumble block after morphball.
-The crumble grapple blocks which are disguised as regular tiles are very unintuitive - people aren't used to hidden grapple blocks like this. I actually assume this was part of an error you mentioned where some tiles weren't behaving correctly.
-The green coral on the way to the bombs and in some other places doesn't really fit the role of 'spikes,' since it doesn't appear to be spikey to the player. Although once they adjust to the fact that they are damaging there isn't much of a problem.
-The previously mentioned green coral 'spikes' cause a few parts to be a bit of a 'loadstate' fest with only 99 energy, since you'll die after only two hits. You could've thrown in a semiobvious e-tank early to offset this perhaps, considering how much damage spikes do.
-Using the grapple beam on grapple blocks in certain tight locations can get you stuck in the wall, but due to the compact nature of the level design, there's pretty much no helping that here.
-I'm not really sure if its necessarily good or bad since the atmosphere it creates is rather interesting and I'm sure you intended it, but a lot of the puzzles are as unintuitive and chaotic as you can get.

Overall, I'm conflicted, because the aesthetics are great, yet navigating the complex passages to get to where you want to go can be a bit tedious. Yet those passages are virtually inseperable from the aesthetics, so removing one would alter the other. Although I can say that if someone hates morph ball mazes they will definitely hate this hack, but I don't have an innate problem with them. I wasn't even aware that there were people out there who played Metroid games that absolutely despised them until someone mentioned it because I had a couple in Dependence. If you were to attempt a fullhack, the design might turn out to be something I'd like as much as SFI, because you wouldn't be forced to squeeze everything together into compact passages and some unique level design could still be there.

Anyway, I finally got around to playing this hack. The level design reminds me a lot of SFI because it uses tiles in crazy and unexpected ways that haven't really been done before. I really like how it loops around insanely and different parts of different puzzles connect and flow into each other, while they're still kept seperate by well-placed SB blocks or crumble blocks, etc. Although the chaotic nature of the room layout leads to problems of trying to figure out how to get to specific places, due to the fact that some paths intersect with others and sometimes you have to go in one direction to get to an item in the opposite direction because of the pathways. The insane tiling can also lead to similar confusion problems. But at least you won't get bored looking at it.

Anyway, here's some constructive criticism for when/if you make another hack:
-Some passages could've used a bit more of a hint so people know they exist - the grapple beam's passage for example. I know it can be quite hard to come up with something that's intuitive and somewhere just between obvious and unobvious. 
-There are a couple places you can get stuck - such as the crumble block after morphball.
-The crumble grapple blocks which are disguised as regular tiles are very unintuitive - people aren't used to hidden grapple blocks like this. I actually assume this was part of an error you mentioned where some tiles weren't behaving correctly.
-The green coral on the way to the bombs and in some other places doesn't really fit the role of 'spikes,' since it doesn't appear to be spikey to the player. Although once they adjust to the fact that they are damaging there isn't much of a problem.
-The previously mentioned green coral 'spikes' cause a few parts to be a bit of a 'loadstate' fest with only 99 energy, since you'll die after only two hits. You could've thrown in a semiobvious e-tank early to offset this perhaps, considering how much damage spikes do.
-Using the grapple beam on grapple blocks in certain tight locations can get you stuck in the wall, but due to the compact nature of the level design, there's pretty much no helping that here.
-I'm not really sure if its necessarily good or bad since the atmosphere it creates is rather interesting and I'm sure you intended it, but a lot of the puzzles are as unintuitive and chaotic as you can get.

Overall, I'm conflicted, because the aesthetics are great, yet navigating the complex passages to get to where you want to go can be a bit tedious. Yet those passages are virtually inseperable from the aesthetics, so removing one would alter the other. Although I can say that if someone hates morph ball mazes they will definitely hate this hack, but I don't have an innate problem with them. I wasn't even aware that there were people out there who played Metroid games that absolutely despised them until someone mentioned it because I had a couple in Dependence. If you were to attempt a fullhack, the design might turn out to be something I'd like as much as SFI, because you wouldn't be forced to squeeze everything together into compact passages and some unique level design could still be there.

Kriole

2007-12-14 10:09:43 am

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

Quote from Black Telomeres:

-Some passages could've used a bit more of a hint so people know they exist - the grapple beam's passage for example. I know it can be quite hard to come up with something that's intuitive and somewhere just between obvious and unobvious.

Now you are one to talk ;]

Black Telomeres

2007-12-14 11:08:08 am

There are 'hints' for nearly every passage in my hacks, although they may be very indirect and implied hints - such as hints where the map shows there should be more to the room, dead ends that serve as hints just because they're in places where a dead end would make no sense, showing a tiny bit of empty space below the ground that looks suspicious, etc.

Cardweaver

2007-12-14 01:20:23 pm

Quote from Black Telomeres:

-The previously mentioned green coral 'spikes' cause a few parts to be a bit of a 'loadstate' fest with only 99 energy, since you'll die after only two hits. You could've thrown in a semiobvious e-tank early to offset this perhaps, considering how much damage spikes do.

Another Etank would only give you another hit, which wouldn't be too effective in helping the process.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-14 01:44:06 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Did you guys get the E-tank?

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-12-14 01:59:33 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Black Telomeres:

Anyway, I finally got around to playing this hack. The level design reminds me a lot of SFI because it uses tiles in crazy and unexpected ways that haven't really been done before. I really like how it loops around insanely and different parts of different puzzles connect and flow into each other, while they're still kept seperate by well-placed SB blocks or crumble blocks, etc. Although the chaotic nature of the room layout leads to problems of trying to figure out how to get to specific places, due to the fact that some paths intersect with others and sometimes you have to go in one direction to get to an item in the opposite direction because of the pathways. The insane tiling can also lead to similar confusion problems. But at least you won't get bored looking at it.

Anyway, here's some constructive criticism for when/if you make another hack:
-Some passages could've used a bit more of a hint so people know they exist - the grapple beam's passage for example. I know it can be quite hard to come up with something that's intuitive and somewhere just between obvious and unobvious.
-There are a couple places you can get stuck - such as the crumble block after morphball.
-The crumble grapple blocks which are disguised as regular tiles are very unintuitive - people aren't used to hidden grapple blocks like this. I actually assume this was part of an error you mentioned where some tiles weren't behaving correctly.
-The green coral on the way to the bombs and in some other places doesn't really fit the role of 'spikes,' since it doesn't appear to be spikey to the player. Although once they adjust to the fact that they are damaging there isn't much of a problem.
-The previously mentioned green coral 'spikes' cause a few parts to be a bit of a 'loadstate' fest with only 99 energy, since you'll die after only two hits. You could've thrown in a semiobvious e-tank early to offset this perhaps, considering how much damage spikes do.
-Using the grapple beam on grapple blocks in certain tight locations can get you stuck in the wall, but due to the compact nature of the level design, there's pretty much no helping that here.
-I'm not really sure if its necessarily good or bad since the atmosphere it creates is rather interesting and I'm sure you intended it, but a lot of the puzzles are as unintuitive and chaotic as you can get.

Overall, I'm conflicted, because the aesthetics are great, yet navigating the complex passages to get to where you want to go can be a bit tedious. Yet those passages are virtually inseperable from the aesthetics, so removing one would alter the other. Although I can say that if someone hates morph ball mazes they will definitely hate this hack, but I don't have an innate problem with them. I wasn't even aware that there were people out there who played Metroid games that absolutely despised them until someone mentioned it because I had a couple in Dependence. If you were to attempt a fullhack, the design might turn out to be something I'd like as much as SFI, because you wouldn't be forced to squeeze everything together into compact passages and some unique level design could still be there.

Thanks for the hearty read. About the unintuitive grapple block puzzles seen everywhere on my map, most of those have been changed to bomb tiles or still grapple tiles yet seen as a grapple tile. I realized this after having an epiphany actually. Whilst working on the easy version, I figured, how the hell would players know this, I only know this because I made it. *a dim light flickers*

I'm pleased that you enjoyed the aesthetics, and also realized that given more space I wouldn't have to be so compact in my design scheme. I've made some essential items more obvious to find while still retaining their route, theres just a nuance here and there when you flip around looking for shit, you see the top or bottom of the screen reveal another area. After playing lots of SMI I got much better at metroid finesse (jumping gently, etc), so I tried to test myself.

As for the CF needed in the end, that was completely inspired by Cardweaver, and much respect given to him for that particular unorthodox technique. Restricted to one room, how do you extend the playtime? Simple, make a CF puzzle so you have to hunt for more items to complete the technique, heh.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]
Anyway, I finally got around to playing this hack. The level design reminds me a lot of SFI because it uses tiles in crazy and unexpected ways that haven't really been done before. I really like how it loops around insanely and different parts of different puzzles connect and flow into each other, while they're still kept seperate by well-placed SB blocks or crumble blocks, etc. Although the chaotic nature of the room layout leads to problems of trying to figure out how to get to specific places, due to the fact that some paths intersect with others and sometimes you have to go in one direction to get to an item in the opposite direction because of the pathways. The insane tiling can also lead to similar confusion problems. But at least you won't get bored looking at it.

Anyway, here's some constructive criticism for when/if you make another hack:
-Some passages could've used a bit more of a hint so people know they exist - the grapple beam's passage for example. I know it can be quite hard to come up with something that's intuitive and somewhere just between obvious and unobvious. 
-There are a couple places you can get stuck - such as the crumble block after morphball.
-The crumble grapple blocks which are disguised as regular tiles are very unintuitive - people aren't used to hidden grapple blocks like this. I actually assume this was part of an error you mentioned where some tiles weren't behaving correctly.
-The green coral on the way to the bombs and in some other places doesn't really fit the role of 'spikes,' since it doesn't appear to be spikey to the player. Although once they adjust to the fact that they are damaging there isn't much of a problem.
-The previously mentioned green coral 'spikes' cause a few parts to be a bit of a 'loadstate' fest with only 99 energy, since you'll die after only two hits. You could've thrown in a semiobvious e-tank early to offset this perhaps, considering how much damage spikes do.
-Using the grapple beam on grapple blocks in certain tight locations can get you stuck in the wall, but due to the compact nature of the level design, there's pretty much no helping that here.
-I'm not really sure if its necessarily good or bad since the atmosphere it creates is rather interesting and I'm sure you intended it, but a lot of the puzzles are as unintuitive and chaotic as you can get.

Overall, I'm conflicted, because the aesthetics are great, yet navigating the complex passages to get to where you want to go can be a bit tedious. Yet those passages are virtually inseperable from the aesthetics, so removing one would alter the other. Although I can say that if someone hates morph ball mazes they will definitely hate this hack, but I don't have an innate problem with them. I wasn't even aware that there were people out there who played Metroid games that absolutely despised them until someone mentioned it because I had a couple in Dependence. If you were to attempt a fullhack, the design might turn out to be something I'd like as much as SFI, because you wouldn't be forced to squeeze everything together into compact passages and some unique level design could still be there.

[/quote]

Thanks for the hearty read. About the unintuitive grapple block puzzles seen everywhere on my map, most of those have been changed to bomb tiles or still grapple tiles yet seen as a grapple tile. I realized this after having an epiphany actually. Whilst working on the easy version, I figured, how the hell would players know this, I only know this because I made it. *a dim light flickers*

I'm pleased that you enjoyed the aesthetics, and also realized that given more space I wouldn't have to be so compact in my design scheme. I've made some essential items more obvious to find while still retaining their route, theres just a nuance here and there when you flip around looking for shit, you see the top or bottom of the screen reveal another area. After playing lots of SMI I got much better at metroid finesse (jumping gently, etc), so I tried to test myself.

As for the CF needed in the end, that was completely inspired by Cardweaver, and much respect given to him for that particular unorthodox technique. Restricted to one room, how do you extend the playtime? Simple, make a CF puzzle so you have to hunt for more items to complete the technique, heh.

Cardweaver

2007-12-14 02:11:59 pm

Actually I can't take full credit for the CF puzzle. Saturn had it first, although I never knew about it until after I had included it in my hack. It was something I discovered a long time ago on the console when I first discovered the CF, and didn't know if many people knew about it, only to find out that I had been beaten to the punch.

Quote from DMantra:

Whilst working on the easy version, I figured, how the hell would players know this, I only know this because I made it. *a dim light flickers*

This particular reason is why if I do make another involved hack, I will be sure to have other players beta test it. Many times I think, oh thats no porblem, its obvious, only to have people complain (and rightfully so) that there is no way to proceed, or there was no way for them to guess that block was a grapple block.

I didn't have a problem with your hack or others mostly because when I get stuck, I bomb/grapple/shoot/speedboost the crap out of anything and everything near me. If it ain't broke, blow it up anyway.

Actually I can't take full credit for the CF puzzle. Saturn had it first, although I never knew about it until after I had included it in my hack. It was something I discovered a long time ago on the console when I first discovered the CF, and didn't know if many people knew about it, only to find out that I had been beaten to the punch.
[quote="DMantra"]

Whilst working on the easy version, I figured, how the hell would players know this, I only know this because I made it. *a dim light flickers*

[/quote]

This particular reason is why if I do make another involved hack, I will be sure to have other players beta test it. Many times I think, oh thats no porblem, its obvious, only to have people complain (and rightfully so) that there is no way to proceed, or there was no way for them to guess that block was a grapple block.

I didn't have a problem with your hack or others mostly because when I get stuck, I bomb/grapple/shoot/speedboost the crap out of anything and everything near me. If it ain't broke, blow it up anyway.

rekameohs

2007-12-16 06:44:56 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

What the hell do I do in the speed booster area. I can't get to where the red gate is so I can make the path bigger. Please tell me I don't have to short charge in such a small space...