The "I need help" Topic

2007-04-09 04:17:27 am

That CPadolf guy is crazy. 35 min on NTSC is amazing, and 42 min PAL... I'm working on improvement to my any% on PAL and I'm leading my 46 min by 2 minutes. Let's see if I could shave off some more... 8-)

"thus prohibiting some cool shinesparks"

Moozooh I'd like to know what shinesparks can you do on NTSC that are impossible on PAL version if I got that right. This seems like a challenge, although I can't think of anything. I've done all the same shinesparks that I've seen done on NTSC version, on my PAL-game.

Cpadolf

2007-04-09 06:04:04 am

Almost happy

Im thinking about buying a 360 controller for my PC so i can finaly run the NTSC version with a controller instead of a keyboard. ( playing with keyboard is just god awful) Anyone who can recomend this or disrecomend?

moozooh

2007-04-09 07:23:19 am

Quote from Tonski:

35 min on NTSC is amazing, and 42 min PAL

Quote from moozooh:

42 minutes on PAL version means approximately the same time for NTSC version.

Quote from Tonski:

Moozooh I'd like to know what shinesparks can you do on NTSC that are impossible on PAL version if I got that right. This seems like a challenge, although I can't think of anything.

I'm pretty sure it's close to impossible to do Scarlet's Wrecked Ship break-in (shown here below), at least in realtime. The door just doesn't open in time. The timing is really screwed in the E version, so I'm pretty sure there are other examples I haven't been bothered to research.

Quote from Cpadolf:

Im thinking about buying a 360 controller for my PC so i can finaly run the NTSC version with a controller instead of a keyboard. ( playing with keyboard is just god awful) Anyone who can recomend this or disrecomend?

If you're comfortable with SNES pad, then you'll be better off buying the SNES->USB adapter, like this one. I personally consider PS/Xbox controllers way too bulky.

[quote="Tonski"]35 min on NTSC is amazing, and 42 min PAL[/quote]
 :arrow: 
[quote="moozooh"]42 minutes on PAL version means approximately the same time for NTSC version.[/quote]

[quote="Tonski"]Moozooh I'd like to know what shinesparks can you do on NTSC that are impossible on PAL version if I got that right. This seems like a challenge, although I can't think of anything.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure it's close to impossible to do Scarlet's Wrecked Ship break-in (shown [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/3/speed_tricks_early_wrecked_ship_break-in.php]here[/url] [i]below[/i]), at least in realtime. The door just doesn't open in time. The timing is really screwed in the E version, so I'm pretty sure there are other examples I haven't been bothered to research.

[quote="Cpadolf"]Im thinking about buying a 360 controller for my PC so i can finaly run the NTSC version with a controller instead of a keyboard. ( playing with keyboard is just god awful) Anyone who can recomend this or disrecomend?[/quote]
If you're comfortable with SNES pad, then you'll be better off buying the SNES->USB adapter, like [url=http://www.gamersection.ca/product_info.php?products_id=150]this one[/url]. I personally consider PS/Xbox controllers way too bulky.

P.JMan

2007-04-09 08:01:13 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

The break-in is possible, but the super missile method doesn't work

This is in the NTSC vs PAL topic I think

Tonski

2007-04-09 09:36:27 am

Yeah I remember Hotarubi saying a charged shot is way better and it doesn't get off screen so easily.

But since this is the "I need help" -topic I need to ask something. I speedrun this game on PAL-version and I'm almost finishing my latest any%-run and I need help for Tourian. That place always takes 9 minutes from me and that IMO just sucks. I start from gunship and play to completing the game, and it always takes 9 minutes, although I'm dead sure it can be done a lot faster. Some pointers/help? I've done these things in Tourian so far:

-Suits off and lose energy before big metroid
-MB fight Hotarubi style
-Barrier glitch
-Both shinesparks while escaping (space pirate shaft and the one before)

Can't think of anything to save more time. I should probably be faster, but a bit of help would be appreciated.

Jweb Guru

2007-04-09 11:32:37 am

First post here. I didn't play Super Metroid until late last year, but it quickly became my favorite game ever.

Anyway, I had a question about Hotarubi's Norfair segment. Is getting the High Jump Boots before the Speed Booster / Wave Beam really faster than doing it later (for humans, not TASers), or is it just done to avoid the annoying walljumping you have to do without them? I ask because neither TAS does it, but since one is a 100% and the other doesn't get the High Jump Boots at all I don't know whether it's a good idea to use them as a baseline.

moozooh

2007-04-09 11:58:18 am

Getting HJ boots later is only marginally faster for in-game time in a TAS, but it's definitely slower in an unassisted play because of the hassle it introduces on the way because of a different set of tricks and precision in doing them. Almost all the rooms in that part of Norfair are going to be slower without the boots.

[EDIT]
Examples for consideration:
1) first room to the right -- one would have to bombjump near the right door;
2) second room to the right -- more hassle jumping around the poles;
3) green bubble room -- MUCH harder walljumps;
4) pre-Wave beam room and the shaft next to it -- exiting would need an additional walljump that isn't too convenient to do, plus slower shaft climb.

Jweb Guru

2007-04-09 12:10:02 pm

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I practiced the route most of yesterday, but most of the tricks aren't too bad. The only one that really stands out is that damn walljumping in the green bubble room. Oh well, at least my walljumping's improved; now I can go get the High Jump boots without worrying about whether it's slower or not. Though I still think Hotarubi should have damage boosted off the, uh, missile creature thing at the top of the room instead of charging and somersaulting, even though it's less dangerous that way.

Actually, the more I analyze each room in his run the more I wonder why people were accusing him of TASing. It clearly isn't one--he makes a ton of mistakes, he just uses crazy tricks.

Bahamut

Edit history:

Bahamut: 2009-01-26 09:11:04 am

2007-04-10 02:15:53 pm

Edit: I'm editing all my really big useless posts into this so you don't waste your time reading them. If I should just leave them how they are then tell me and I'll stop editing them, but I think it would be better to not waste room on the page and stop if someone tells me to, than leaving them here to be annoying.

BlueGlass

2007-04-10 02:57:31 pm

Past Crocomire.

Bahamut

Edit history:

Bahamut: 2009-01-26 09:07:03 am

2007-04-10 03:00:51 pm

Edit: I'm editing all my really big useless posts into this so you don't waste your time reading them. If I should just leave them how they are then tell me and I'll stop editing them, but I think it would be better to not waste room on the page and stop if someone tells me to, than leaving them here to be annoying.

Heebs

2007-04-10 05:45:41 pm

I'm having a heck of a time with the shinespark to the wrecked ship entrance. Shinesparking across the room with the missles on the pillar is easy, but getting the door open in time to continue the spark all the way to the green door at the entrance to the ship is driving me nuts. So far I either:

Charge the shine, jump up to the top ledge, run through the door while holding the fire button. Let go of the fire button, gun goes off as soon as im through the door. I hit aim down to stop on a dime, jump button, right direction, and i shinespark across the room behind my beam, but i hit the blue door a few frames too early and it stops my spark before it finishes opening. I cant possibly shoot any sooner and if i wait any longer to spark i lose the charge.

OR

I charge the shine, jump to the top ledge, run throug the door holding fire, let go of fire while running through door. Gun goes off when im through, attempt to do a midair horizontal spineshark (jump, aim up, right direction, jump), which I either mess up and end up diagonally sparking into the ceiling, or i do correctly, but too slow and end up hitting my head just above the blue door which just opened.

This is killing me. What am i doing wrong here? Do I have to do a short charge to give myself more time to wait for the beam to go before doing a standing horizontal spineshark? Or am I just too slow on the midair horizontal? I try to go faster but it just does the diagonal shinespark instead.

I'm having a heck of a time with the shinespark to the wrecked ship entrance.  Shinesparking across the room with the missles on the pillar is easy, but getting the door open in time to continue the spark all the way to the green door at the entrance to the ship is driving me nuts.  So far I either:

Charge the shine, jump up to the top ledge, run through the door while holding the fire button.  Let go of the fire button, gun goes off as soon as im through the door.  I hit aim down to stop on a dime, jump button, right direction, and i shinespark across the room behind my beam, but i hit the blue door a few frames too early and it stops my spark before it finishes opening.  I cant possibly shoot any sooner and if i wait any longer to spark i lose the charge.

OR

I charge the shine, jump to the top ledge, run throug the door holding fire, let go of fire while running through door.  Gun goes off when im through, attempt to do a midair horizontal spineshark (jump, aim up, right direction, jump), which I either mess up and end up diagonally sparking into the ceiling, or i do correctly, but too slow and end up hitting my head just above the blue door which just opened.

This is killing me.  What am i doing wrong here?  Do I have to do a short charge to give myself more time to wait for the beam to go before doing a standing horizontal spineshark?  Or am I just too slow on the midair horizontal?  I try to go faster but it just does the diagonal shinespark instead.

Bahamut

Edit history:

Bahamut: 2009-01-26 09:06:15 am

2007-04-10 05:54:09 pm

Edit: I'm editing all my really big useless posts into this so you don't waste your time reading them. If I should just leave them how they are then tell me and I'll stop editing them, but I think it would be better to not waste room on the page and stop if someone tells me to, than leaving them here to be annoying.

P.JMan

2007-04-10 05:55:00 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

If you aren't fast enough to get to the missile room and wait for the beam to hit the door, then dash into the missile room, use a super missile and jump, then do a mid-air horizontal spark.
You clearly know how to do a mid-air horizontal spark (spin-jump, unspin, hold right and press jump) so, give it some time

Edit: I got simu-posted. On PAL, Samus is a lot faster, so the Super Missile method shown on the site doesn't work. Mine does though Wink

Heebs

2007-04-10 06:13:55 pm

Yeah, ive gotten to the ship entrance with just well timed jumps before. Im trying to do a speed run though, so to bring my time down being able to shinespark the whole thing would help. The short charge thing I just now figured out, which while it doesnt help samus hold a charge longer, because it allows me to get the charge over shorter distance, i dont have to take a couple steps back in order to make the jump from the bottom ledge to the top. Saves me a second and that allows me to wait a fraction of a second longer before doing the (standing horizontal) shinespark. In theory this shouldve gotten me to the door a few frames later and let me through.

Problem is, doing it this way, now I get to the blue door and my beam never hit it - it must be getting too far off screen and disappearing before it opens the door. I tried the super missle method earlier since they fly faster than beams and encountered the same result. I know the midair shinespark takes a few frames more than the standing shinespark, which is why I was trying it - but i just cant get the darned thing to go off before im too high in the air to make it through the door.

EDIT: Im playing the original version released in the US back in '94. Im assuming thats NTSC.

Yeah, ive gotten to the ship entrance with just well timed jumps before.  Im trying to do a speed run though, so to bring my time down being able to shinespark the whole thing would help.  The short charge thing I just now figured out, which while it doesnt help samus hold a charge longer, because it allows me to get the charge over shorter distance, i dont have to take a couple steps back in order to make the jump from the bottom ledge to the top.  Saves me a second and that allows me to wait a fraction of a second longer before doing the (standing horizontal) shinespark.  In theory this shouldve gotten me to the door a few frames later and let me through.

Problem is, doing it this way, now I get to the blue door and my beam never hit it - it must be getting too far off screen and disappearing before it opens the door.  I tried the super missle method earlier since they fly faster than beams and encountered the same result.  I know the midair shinespark takes a few frames more than the standing shinespark, which is why I was trying it - but i just cant get the darned thing to go off before im too high in the air to make it through the door.

EDIT: Im playing the original version released in the US back in '94.  Im assuming thats NTSC.

Bahamut

Edit history:

Bahamut: 2009-01-26 09:03:58 am

2007-04-10 06:24:46 pm

Edit: I'm editing all my really big useless posts into this so you don't waste your time reading them. If I should just leave them how they are then tell me and I'll stop editing them, but I think it would be better to not waste room on the page and stop if someone tells me to, than leaving them here to be annoying.

Heebs

2007-04-10 06:35:15 pm

No, i can cross that room easy, the problem is getting the door on the far side to open before my shinespark reaches it and gets stopped. I want to be able to shinespark across the missile room AND the open area just before the wrecked ship all at once.

The video I have they do it from the far left ledge with a midair horizontal shinespark. I just watched smokey's again and he does it by first jumping the platform with the missile, then shooting and doing the shinespark from there. I tried smokey's method but i lose my charge before I can do it. Trying from the left platform I encounter the problems I have described in previous posts.

P.JMan

2007-04-10 06:39:53 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Doing the standing method requires extreme timing. You either gotta do it earlier or later but it's possible

Heebs

2007-04-10 06:59:40 pm

Holy crap, I finally got it.

Had to use the short charge to give myself enough space to get into the next room with some time left on the charge.

Had to jump so i was just about to the pillar, THEN fire, then do a midair horizontal. Trick is to time it so you dont end up slamming your face into the pillar. If youre too far back your beam wont reach the door before the game loses track of it.

Thanks very much for the help grin new

Now to practice til I am consistant....

EDIT:

Ugh, surviving the phantoon fight after using almost all my energy on the shinespark is sorta tough, heheh.

Bahamut

Edit history:

Bahamut: 2009-01-26 09:02:58 am

2007-04-10 07:59:37 pm

Edit: I'm editing all my really big useless posts into this so you don't waste your time reading them. If I should just leave them how they are then tell me and I'll stop editing them, but I think it would be better to not waste room on the page and stop if someone tells me to, than leaving them here to be annoying.

BlueGlass

2007-04-10 09:25:32 pm

Quote from Bahamut:

BTW you can collect a few E. Tanks and still have it quite speedy, to help with the fight.
But if you want it REALLY fast, you should skip them.

Actually, you should already have 3 etanks (the first one, the one in Kraid's lair, and the one by hi-jump). Three etanks are required to beat the game, and conveniently enough, those three are the quickest to get.

Heebs

2007-04-10 10:42:47 pm

Yeah, those are the 3 i had, and I got phantoon down pretty quick after i got the hang of it. Actually, made it to tourain about 5 minutes ago and was at 46 minutes at the save station.

Game just erased though. aiwebs_016

Oh well, crap happens with old cartridges I guess.

EDIT: went back and did it again. Final time - 52 minutes. Smashed my old 1:06. woot!

Lawrence Reyome

2007-04-11 12:42:50 am

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

Save Batteries are only supposed to last so long, 5 years I think, then you need to replace the game.

Jweb Guru

2007-04-11 05:35:11 pm

Three etanks are no longer required to beat the game, BlueGrass, remember? And, on a related note, the Super Metroid tricks section REALLY needs updating. Beyond the new stuff and the old "tricks" it's missing (e.g. DBJ) it's also vaguely unhelpful when it comes to the specifics of many of the tricks that ARE listed (e.g. Kraid quick kill -- it took me ages to figure out that (a) charged shot would freeze his arm, and (b) shooting while his mouth is half open keeps it open long enough to fire the three super missiles + missile; thanks, Hotarubi's run!).

moozooh

2007-04-11 05:41:43 pm

Quote from Jweb Guru:

shooting while his mouth is half open keeps it open long enough to fire the three super missiles + missile

But... isn't it shown rather apparently in this video? You don't even have to charge anything.