Super Metroid Sequence Breakers

nate

2004-03-04 05:22:04 pm

Quote from RS Bulleta:

(looking at it I find it hard to swallow that I did 3/4 of it in 1 segment)

i find it hard to swallow, as well.

oh, my bandwidth! :x

ShadowMagus

2004-03-04 05:58:41 pm

Quote from Sarah:

For NBMB runs, that one power bomb has helped me invent quite a few new curse words, let's just say that.

Ah, our friend PB #66. Should be an extra 6 in there.

AssA

2004-03-05 10:20:14 am

Quote from Yoshi348:

Heh, or my story: When you have to get back from Ridely, I couldn't find the way back, as it was a fake wall that looks solid to the X-Ray Scope, which I was TOTTALLY pimping out at that point. So I came back by RUSHING THROUGH THE ACID FILLED ROOM. And I made it through with 3 or 4 mess ups on the space jump, with only a row and a half of energy tanks. Some deterrent THAT was... :)

That's what I did. I found it odd you had to go through lava, but it was only when I played through the game a few more times when I found that fake wall, because a stray Super Missile flew straight through it 8)

Xin

2004-03-06 02:59:51 pm

I almost did that as well my first time. Didn't make it through.

Syl

2004-03-06 03:36:30 pm

I actually knew about the fake wall my first time through the game, because a few years ago in a nitendopower, someone mentioed they didn't know where to go, and NP responded with a picture and it said "go through this wall, sure the x-ray visor doesn't show anything, but who are you going to trust morre, the game or us?"

anyway, because fo that, I always remembered it, which i suppose lowered the confusion factor a bit, but no matter.

Light of Day

2004-03-06 04:05:30 pm

I just knew there would be another way than through the lava. It didn't make sense: if you had skipped enough enery tanks by then you would be stuck, and Metroid games seem to be built to try to prevent you from ever getting stuck just by skimping on the optional tanks. I think I eventually found it by shooting through it. I had an over-reliance on the x-ray visor too at that point, but I eventually remembered hearing that there were things it couldn't find. After that, I fell back on my old standby of missiling everything to death, and the secret passage was found before long.

Radix

2004-03-06 05:07:45 pm

Quote from Light of Day:

Metroid games seem to be built to try to prevent you from ever getting stuck just by skimping on the optional tanks.

Too bad that's not the case in Super Metroid. If you get to Tourian with less than 3 tanks and save in the last save ..... you're screwed.

Light of Day

2004-03-06 05:12:18 pm

Quote from Radix:

Quote from Light of Day:

Metroid games seem to be built to try to prevent you from ever getting stuck just by skimping on the optional tanks.

Too bad that's not the case in Super Metroid. If you get to Tourian with less than 3 tanks and save in the last save ..... you're screwed.

That's... a very good point. Unless I'm much mistaken that's the only point in any Metroid game you can get stuck without sequence breaking. It just seems a little odd if you ask me.

Yoshi348

2004-03-06 05:58:47 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

I knew there was probably another way out, it's just I couldn't find it, and I was in that "sequence breaking" mode, so I thought, why not?

Eruditious

2004-03-07 12:09:31 am

Quote from Light of Day:

Quote from Radix:

Quote from Light of Day:

Metroid games seem to be built to try to prevent you from ever getting stuck just by skimping on the optional tanks.

Too bad that's not the case in Super Metroid. If you get to Tourian with less than 3 tanks and save in the last save ..... you're screwed.

That's... a very good point. Unless I'm much mistaken that's the only point in any Metroid game you can get stuck without sequence breaking. It just seems a little odd if you ask me.

It's been a while since I've played M3, and I was wondering why this is the case (it probably doesn't help that I'm a get-every-item-that-I-can person)

Radix

2004-03-07 02:27:45 am

Quote from Eruditious:

It's been a while since I've played M3, and I was wondering why this is the case (it probably doesn't help that I'm a get-every-item-that-I-can person)

Mother brain's death beam takes 300 damage and is unavoidable.

fractic

2004-03-07 04:27:53 am

Quote from Light of Day:

Quote from Radix:

Quote from Light of Day:

Metroid games seem to be built to try to prevent you from ever getting stuck just by skimping on the optional tanks.

Too bad that's not the case in Super Metroid. If you get to Tourian with less than 3 tanks and save in the last save ..... you're screwed.

That's... a very good point. Unless I'm much mistaken that's the only point in any Metroid game you can get stuck without sequence breaking. It just seems a little odd if you ask me.

How about the TRO trap in fusion? I mean this is the definition of sequence breaking on the prime page:

Sequence Breaking is the act of obtaining items in the game out of order, or of skipping said items entirely.

You don't actually do that there. Ofc nobody would be stupid enough to do it in a "normal" game. But then again how many ppl would have less then 3 tanks in SM at the end of the game?

Light of Day

2004-03-07 11:16:49 pm

Quote from fractic:

How about the TRO trap in fusion? I mean this is the definition of sequence breaking on the prime page:

Sequence Breaking is the act of obtaining items in the game out of order, or of skipping said items entirely.

I believe that definition of sequence breaking is flawed. I myself define it as that plus visiting areas out of order, in which case my statement holds true for me at least.

Eruditious

2004-03-08 12:29:08 am

Quote from Radix:

Mother brain's death beam takes 300 damage and is unavoidable.

So, for a low % run, you HAVE to get at least 3 energy tanks? (for 399 energy)

Yoshi348

2004-03-08 07:38:36 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Eruditious:

Quote from Radix:

Mother brain's death beam takes 300 damage and is unavoidable.

So, for a low % run, you HAVE to get at least 3 energy tanks? (for 399 energy)

Yep. That's actually probably a blessing, heh.

Ultima4701

2004-03-08 09:18:05 pm

Mockball has been around since 2001.

The average player would never reach Tourian without at least three energy tanks, though it is possible to get stuck like that.

There's at least three in plain sight on normal routes through the game:

-On the exit to crateria, there's one lying in the path.
-The one before the high jump boots. If a person circumvents collecting the high jump boots the first time around, they're good enough to find another energy tank.
-There's one on the way to Draygon; in the room after Botwoon.

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-03-08 09:25:37 pm

However, it IS possible to avoid all those purposefully. I wonder... Perhaps there's some sort of failsafe in the game that prevents you from dying if you don't have enough Tanks. Anyone brave enough to try it?

Light of Day

2004-03-08 09:28:34 pm

Quote from Dark_T_Zeratul:

However, it IS possible to avoid all those purposefully. I wonder... Perhaps there's some sort of failsafe in the game that prevents you from dying if you don't have enough Tanks. Anyone brave enough to try it?

That's what I would think too, but with the amount Super has been broken over the years I'd be highly surprised if that hasn't been tried. I guess they just didn't count on a player purposfully going for low percent.

Yoshi348

2004-03-08 09:45:45 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

The death beam will knock off all your energy slowly to 1 and not start with a 300 point shot, IIRC, so the 300 minimum would have to be coded with a purpose.

Eruditious

2004-03-10 03:31:04 pm

Is there a vid anywhere of someone getting PB# 66 in a nbmb run... looks like a serious pain.

Ultima4701

2004-03-10 04:25:21 pm

I was the original (first) person to achieve 66 NTSC with proof (likewise and therefore I was also the first to reach 73% NBMB).

http://www.elazulspad.net/ultima/

Eruditious

2004-03-10 04:33:46 pm

Awesome, thanks ^^

smilingjack13

2004-03-18 11:27:12 pm

I watched Smokey's 14% run recently. This is the lowest percent yet, right?

I couldn't understand why he picked up 3 energy tanks, 1 super missle expansion, and 1 missle expansion. Now I know why he got the energy tanks, but why are the missle expansions necessary? The regular missle expansion (which was on the little ledge leading to the crashed ship place) could surely be bombed over, right?

And if some knowledgeable person would be so kind, could you tell me what major items were skipped? Thanks. It's been a long time since I've played through SM.

Yoshi348

2004-03-18 11:43:13 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from smilingjack13:

I watched Smokey's 14% run recently. This is the lowest percent yet, right?

I couldn't understand why he picked up 3 energy tanks, 1 super missle expansion, and 1 missle expansion. Now I know why he got the energy tanks, but why are the missle expansions necessary? The regular missle expansion (which was on the little ledge leading to the crashed ship place) could surely be bombed over, right?

And if some knowledgeable person would be so kind, could you tell me what major items were skipped? Thanks. It's been a long time since I've played through SM.

Well, I'm not exactly knowledgable, but I have THE POWER OF FAQS! Erm, anyway, it seems like you need either 1 missle tank and 3 supers, or 2 missles and 2 supers in order to get through all the Zebetites and MB's first form; unlike ZM or M1, I guess they regenerate if you leave.

As for major items skipped? Well, there's two ways to get 14%; by skipping the Ice beam, or skipping the Speed booster. I'd have no clue which one smokey skipped, but it should be obvious. The only other things off the top of my head that I don't see here are the Grappling Beam and the Space Jump.

[quote="smilingjack13"]I watched Smokey's 14% run recently. This is the lowest percent yet, right?

I couldn't understand why he picked up 3 energy tanks, 1 super missle expansion, and 1 missle expansion. Now I know why he got the energy tanks, but why are the missle expansions necessary? The regular missle expansion (which was on the little ledge leading to the crashed ship place) could surely be bombed over, right?

And if some knowledgeable person would be so kind, could you tell me what major items were skipped? Thanks. It's been a long time since I've played through SM.[/quote]

Well, I'm not exactly knowledgable, but I have THE POWER OF FAQS! Erm, anyway, it seems like you need either 1 missle tank and 3 supers, or 2 missles and 2 supers in order to get through all the Zebetites and MB's first form; unlike ZM or M1, I guess they regenerate if you leave.

As for major items skipped? Well, there's two ways to get 14%; by skipping the Ice beam, or skipping the Speed booster. I'd have no clue which one smokey skipped, but it should be obvious. The only other things off the top of my head that I don't see here are the Grappling Beam and the Space Jump.

Smokey

2004-03-19 01:36:20 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

Quote from smilingjack13:

I watched Smokey's 14% run recently. This is the lowest percent yet, right?

I couldn't understand why he picked up 3 energy tanks, 1 super missle expansion, and 1 missle expansion. Now I know why he got the energy tanks, but why are the missle expansions necessary? The regular missle expansion (which was on the little ledge leading to the crashed ship place) could surely be bombed over, right?

And if some knowledgeable person would be so kind, could you tell me what major items were skipped? Thanks. It's been a long time since I've played through SM.

Well, I'm not exactly knowledgable, but I have THE POWER OF FAQS! Erm, anyway, it seems like you need either 1 missle tank and 3 supers, or 2 missles and 2 supers in order to get through all the Zebetites and MB's first form; unlike ZM or M1, I guess they regenerate if you leave.

As for major items skipped? Well, there's two ways to get 14%; by skipping the Ice beam, or skipping the Speed booster. I'd have no clue which one smokey skipped, but it should be obvious. The only other things off the top of my head that I don't see here are the Grappling Beam and the Space Jump.

I got the Ice Beam route with 2 missiles and 2 super missiles packs on the 14% run.

the 2 missiles and super missiles packs are necessary (even in both special items route of the 14% run; Ice beam or Speed booster, to skip the first zebetite) to damage MB's glass and MB itself to "start" the fight. In the 15% run it's a pain because you'll have to reload your missiles *each* time you break a zebetite to finally reach MB. In the 14% run, you just skip the first zebetite and reach MB without ever returning to the missile recharge station.

doing a 14% run with the Speed booster is pretty insane (but possible) because you'll have to get the blue suit from Draygon's battle ALL THE WAY to MB's hall in Tourian to skip the first zebetite.

as for the missile that can be "bombed" over the moat, you can't do it in 14% with the Ice beam, considering you'll have to a diagonal or horizontal bomb to reach the door from the platform were the missile pack was. Either way, collecting it or not (like using the speed booster in the 14% run) you'll still need 2 missiles and super missiles packs to damage MB enough to start the battle.

[quote="Yoshi348"][quote="smilingjack13"]I watched Smokey's 14% run recently. This is the lowest percent yet, right?

I couldn't understand why he picked up 3 energy tanks, 1 super missle expansion, and 1 missle expansion. Now I know why he got the energy tanks, but why are the missle expansions necessary? The regular missle expansion (which was on the little ledge leading to the crashed ship place) could surely be bombed over, right?

And if some knowledgeable person would be so kind, could you tell me what major items were skipped? Thanks. It's been a long time since I've played through SM.[/quote]

Well, I'm not exactly knowledgable, but I have THE POWER OF FAQS! Erm, anyway, it seems like you need either 1 missle tank and 3 supers, or 2 missles and 2 supers in order to get through all the Zebetites and MB's first form; unlike ZM or M1, I guess they regenerate if you leave.

As for major items skipped? Well, there's two ways to get 14%; by skipping the Ice beam, or skipping the Speed booster. I'd have no clue which one smokey skipped, but it should be obvious. The only other things off the top of my head that I don't see here are the Grappling Beam and the Space Jump.[/quote]

I got the Ice Beam route with 2 missiles and 2 super missiles packs on the 14% run.

the 2 missiles and super missiles packs are necessary (even in both special items route of the 14% run; Ice beam or Speed booster, to skip the first zebetite) to damage MB's glass and MB itself to "start" the fight. In the 15% run it's a pain because you'll have to reload your missiles *each* time you break a zebetite to finally reach MB. In the 14% run, you just skip the first zebetite and reach MB without ever returning to the missile recharge station.

doing a 14% run with the Speed booster is pretty insane (but possible) because you'll have to get the blue suit from Draygon's battle ALL THE WAY to MB's hall in Tourian to skip the first zebetite.

as for the missile that can be "bombed" over the moat, you can't do it in 14% with the Ice beam, considering you'll have to a diagonal or horizontal bomb to reach the door from the platform were the missile pack was. Either way, collecting it or not (like using the speed booster in the 14% run) you'll still need 2 missiles and super missiles packs to damage MB enough to start the battle.