Super Glitchtroid (finally) released! (version 1.11 is up w/ new content!)

2007-12-27 08:57:08 am

Meh I'll just wait 'till someone TASes this hack, I'm too lazy to complete this hack.

2007-12-27 10:11:00 am

There seems to be no possible way to escape from the area after fighting Draygon, so i'm quitting this hack as well. If you were trying to make it extremely difficult, you succeeded ;) I had to HBJ+DBJ to get those supers.

ducknerd

2007-12-27 12:18:01 pm

Eschews avatars

Hmm,a lot of people seem to hate that 3-block shaft, will probably make that 'extra'.

ICAG: Crystal Flash is your friend, too.

Cardweaver

2007-12-27 12:27:12 pm

Well, now I'm stuck because I can't manage to perform a mochtroid ceiling glitch correctly. Is there anything not obvious that I might be missing? Also, did anyone else get supers my way?

Kriole

2007-12-27 01:03:06 pm

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

My new computer in honor, I thought I'd replay this hack. Messing around at the mocktroid, I accidentally pulled off and 2 tile pseudospringball. SMV attached.

attachment:

wtf.smv

Cardweaver

2007-12-27 01:34:09 pm

I think what actually happened is that when you went to do the pseudo-springball, you were in such a position to do a partial ceiling glitch, allowing you to have about 2.5 tile height to perform in. Then again, I could be completely wrong and you have just revolutionized the pseudo-springball...

Lance Uppercut

Edit history:

Lance Uppercut: 2007-12-27 01:50:31 pm

2007-12-27 01:43:56 pm

Quote from Black Telomeres:

Hidden items...in a METROID GAME? What's this world coming to? laugh new

Wow, is it wonder that someone is protecting his latest hack unconsciously again. Well, you are right on the money with the challenge/exploring thing, but don´t you think too that every vital item should be easily accessible? I mean the ones that are required to complete the hack? I am tired of whining about hidden items as well, but something has to be said when I enter hot Norfair without any e-tanks or when I bump into Mother Brain only to realize I do not have the necessary items to defeat her. I will say this once again just to clear things up: Please do not hide the necessary items. All the other items (mainly regular missiles) you can hide outside the screen for all that I care, but I want to pass through the hack itself at the least.

And don´t start philosophizing about what is hidden and what is not, the important thing is that if you pass through the room without taking an item you would take if you knew, then that is pretty much (maybe badly) hidden. If the item is located in further room but is still visible, it is not hidden, it just is in a different location than the main route. As for the major suit upgrades, I cannot think of a better place than after a boss or some (well indicated) quirky puzzle.

Cardweaver: Nice tech to get Super Missiles, you don´t have to get on top of the pillar so that way is allright. I did not land on top of the pillar either with my CWJ, which I by the way did surprisingly with about 5 re-records. Next time is bound to be harder.
The mochtroid ceiling glitch is quite simple: kneel, freeze the mochtroid, jump and press down, stand up and jump. Works every time for me.

Kriole: WOW, now to test the early plasma in SMI, one two three GO ! :)
(well okay, the conditions are a lot different there, we can forget that...)

I cannot believe ICheatAtGolf would get stuck here, were you not one of the people Crystal Flashing in SMI earlier versions all the time? One solid wall should never hold you back =)

Again, Crystal Flash is your friend....

About the water walljumping I agree, those shafts are a tad too long and hence tedious.

If I have time, I might make some kind of walkthrough about this one, but I promise nothing. :D

Oh BTW ducknerd, Varia suit was brilliant! It needs some re-records, but still it was great.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]
Hidden items...in a METROID GAME? What's this world coming to? :laugh:
[/quote]

Wow, is it wonder that someone is protecting his latest hack unconsciously again. Well, you are right on the money with the challenge/exploring thing, but don´t you think too that every [b]vital [/b]item should be easily accessible? I mean the ones that [u]are required to complete the hack[/u]? I am tired of whining about hidden items as well, but something has to be said when I enter hot Norfair without any e-tanks or when I bump into Mother Brain only to realize I do not have the necessary items to defeat her. I will say this once again just to clear things up: Please do not hide the [i]necessary [/i]items. All the other items (mainly regular missiles) you can hide outside the screen for all that I care, but I want to pass through the hack itself at the least.

And don´t start philosophizing about what is hidden and what is not, the important thing is that if you pass through the room without taking an item you would take if you knew, then that is pretty much (maybe badly) hidden. If the item is located in further room but is still visible, it is not hidden, it just is in a different location than the main route. As for the major suit upgrades, I cannot think of a better place than after a boss or some (well indicated) quirky puzzle.

Cardweaver: Nice tech to get Super Missiles, you don´t have to get on top of the pillar so that way is allright. I did not land on top of the pillar either with my CWJ, which I by the way did surprisingly with about 5 re-records. Next time is bound to be harder.
The mochtroid ceiling glitch is quite simple: kneel, freeze the mochtroid, jump and press down, stand up and jump. Works every time for me.

Kriole: WOW, now to test the early plasma in SMI, one two three GO !   :)
(well okay, the conditions are a lot different there, we can forget that...)

I cannot believe ICheatAtGolf would get stuck here, were you not one of the people Crystal Flashing in SMI earlier versions all the time? One solid wall should never hold you back   =)
[spoiler]Again, Crystal Flash is your friend....[/spoiler]

About the water walljumping I agree, those shafts are a tad too long and hence tedious.

If I have time, I might make some kind of walkthrough about this one, but I promise nothing.  :D

Oh BTW ducknerd, Varia suit was brilliant! It needs some re-records, but still it was great.

Fano7

2007-12-27 03:14:00 pm

Every Bit Counts

YES!!! I finally did my first HBJ. And got the Supers. It's a shame that you need to do 1 wall under-water wall jumping for that one section, but I did it. I also did the HBJ without slowdown. yay. also this.

attachment:

runningwithoutholding.smv

Black Telomeres

Edit history:

Black Telomeres: 2007-12-27 03:59:30 pm

2007-12-27 03:45:52 pm

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

Well, you are right on the money with the challenge/exploring thing, but don´t you think too that every vital item should be easily accessible? I mean the ones that are required to complete the hack?

Depends on what define as 'easily accessable'. I don't think it should be a walk in the park to find items, even if they're necessary. Super Metroid itself doesn't even do that for you. If you do, you're basically just guiding the player through the game by the hand if they are too easy to find and you never get the sense of accomplishment from finding something that was difficult to locate.

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

I am tired of whining about hidden items as well, but something has to be said when I enter hot Norfair without any e-tanks or when I bump into Mother Brain only to realize I do not have the necessary items to defeat her.

I noted in the above post that this is indeed a flaw in this hack so I don't really have a problem with you being upset that you couldn't kill the Mother Brain. Most of the time though, hidden items just require you to ignore a path lined with, say, PB blocks, and go seek out the path that does lead to the power bombs. Although I'm assuming what you have a bigger problem with is not that you have to go back to get the charge beam - since every Metroid game requires backtracking - it's that you have to go back through hell to get it. This tends to be why nonlinear exploration and extreme difficulty don't mix well. With extreme difficulty, each room can become like an insane minefield, and having to backtrack through rooms like this just becomes too much.

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

I will say this once again just to clear things up: Please do not hide the necessary items. All the other items (mainly regular missiles) you can hide outside the screen for all that I care, but I want to pass through the hack itself at the least.

Some people want to be able to beat Impossible or this hack for that matter but can't because it's too hard for them. If they're not entitled to have Impossible tone down its physical difficulty so they can beat it, then I don't see why you're entitled to have a game tone down its hidden items so you can beat it. At least if someone really, really can't find an item, that person can post on a thread and ask for directions and they can be easily given (as happened when Redesign, and other hacks came out). But I don't really think hidden items would stop you from beating a game if you really wanted to and kept trying at it. I assume its just that they annoy you enough that they make you want to stop playing. The same thing is true to other people for some physical stunts required in some challenge hacks that you may believe are not too annoying to perform and may actually like.

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

And don´t start philosophizing about what is hidden and what is not

I am not "philosophizing" about what constitutes hidden, I really want to know what some people mean when they say hidden, otherwise I can't accurately tell what they're saying they don't like. Different people have different definitions of it it seems. I didn't think that was even true until recently. I recognize most of the items in Metroid games as "hidden" so it becomes insanity when people say "don't hide items." Every Metroid so far has had tons of hidden passages, some leading to necessary items. Most hacks do it - not just my hacks, but SFI, Legacy, Redesign, etc. To say not to do this is basically to say "don't make this hack a Metroid game."

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

the important thing is that if you pass through the room without taking an item you would take if you knew, then that is pretty much (maybe badly) hidden. If the item is located in further room but is still visible, it is not hidden, it just is in a different location than the main route. As for the major suit upgrades, I cannot think of a better place than after a boss or some (well indicated) quirky puzzle.

I'm talking about if the path to the item itself is hidden. This is why so many Metroid items are still classified as hidden by me. An item can be out in the 'open' in its own room but still have the path you followed to get to it require you to shoot a somewhat unobvious block to find that path. This disallows the player from getting the item if they don't find this path. For the purposes of a person who cannot find the path, its the same as if the item was sitting right there in the same shotblock you had to shoot to open the path.

[quote="Lance Uppercut"]
Well, you are right on the money with the challenge/exploring thing, but don´t you think too that every [b]vital [/b]item should be easily accessible? I mean the ones that [u]are required to complete the hack[/u]?[/quote]

Depends on what define as 'easily accessable'. I don't think it should be a walk in the park to find items, even if they're necessary. Super Metroid itself doesn't even do that for you. If you do, you're basically just guiding the player through the game by the hand if they are too easy to find and you never get the sense of accomplishment from finding something that was difficult to locate.

[quote="Lance Uppercut"]I am tired of whining about hidden items as well, but something has to be said when I enter hot Norfair without any e-tanks or when I bump into Mother Brain only to realize I do not have the necessary items to defeat her.[/quote]

I noted in the above post that this is indeed a flaw in this hack so I don't really have a problem with you being upset that you couldn't kill the Mother Brain. Most of the time though, hidden items just require you to ignore a path lined with, say, PB blocks, and go seek out the path that does lead to the power bombs. Although I'm assuming what you have a bigger problem with is not that you have to go back to get the charge beam - since every Metroid game requires backtracking - it's that you have to go back through hell to get it. This tends to be why nonlinear exploration and extreme difficulty don't mix well. With extreme difficulty, each room can become like an insane minefield, and having to backtrack through rooms like this just becomes too much.

[quote="Lance Uppercut"]I will say this once again just to clear things up: Please do not hide the [i]necessary [/i]items. All the other items (mainly regular missiles) you can hide outside the screen for all that I care, but I want to pass through the hack itself at the least.[/quote]

Some people want to be able to beat Impossible or this hack for that matter but can't because it's too hard for them. If they're not entitled to have Impossible tone down its physical difficulty so they can beat it, then I don't see why you're entitled to have a game tone down its hidden items so you can beat it. At least if someone really, really can't find an item, that person can post on a thread and ask for directions and they can be easily given (as happened when Redesign, and other hacks came out). But I don't really think hidden items would stop you from beating a game if you really wanted to and kept trying at it. I assume its just that they annoy you enough that they make you want to stop playing. The same thing is true to other people for some physical stunts required in some challenge hacks that you may believe are not too annoying to perform and may actually like.

[quote="Lance Uppercut"]
And don´t start philosophizing about what is hidden and what is not[/quote]

I am not "philosophizing" about what constitutes hidden, I really want to know what some people mean when they say hidden, otherwise I can't accurately tell what they're saying they don't like. Different people have different definitions of it it seems. I didn't think that was even true until recently. I recognize most of the items in Metroid games as "hidden" so it becomes insanity when people say "don't hide items." Every Metroid so far has had tons of hidden passages, some leading to necessary items. Most hacks do it - not just my hacks, but SFI, Legacy, Redesign, etc. To say not to do this is basically to say "don't make this hack a Metroid game."

[quote="Lance Uppercut"]the important thing is that if you pass through the room without taking an item you would take if you knew, then that is pretty much (maybe badly) hidden. If the item is located in further room but is still visible, it is not hidden, it just is in a different location than the main route. As for the major suit upgrades, I cannot think of a better place than after a boss or some (well indicated) quirky puzzle.[/quote]

I'm talking about if the path to the item itself is hidden. This is why so many Metroid items are still classified as hidden by me. An item can be out in the 'open' in its own room but still have the path you followed to get to it require you to shoot a somewhat unobvious block to find that path. This disallows the player from getting the item if they don't find this path. For the purposes of a person who cannot find the path, its the same as if the item was sitting right there in the same shotblock you had to shoot to open the path.

Fano7

2007-12-27 04:00:26 pm

Every Bit Counts

Just beat Draygon, and the his items. Now what do I do? I can't go back the way I came, cause thats a dead end, but I also can't go forward.

Cpadolf

2007-12-27 04:15:21 pm

Almost happy

Quote from Black Telomeres:

Depends on what define as 'easily accessable'. I don't think it should be a walk in the park to find items, even if they're necessary. Super Metroid itself doesn't even do that for you. If you do, you're basically just guiding the player through the game by the hand if they are too easy to find and you never get the sense of accomplishment from finding something.

I think the main point in this question is to not make vital items possible to miss, like here in glitchtroid you are able to get to the last boss without an easily missable item making the fight impossible which is a major game flaw, but in these days where SB's are pretty much impossible to prevent without seriously linearizing the hack with things such as crumble grapple blocks i think main upgrades should be made easily located, not easily taken though, just leaving an item in the middle of a corridor with no enemies is not a very good solution.

Quote from Black Telomeres:

it's that you have to go back through hell to get it.

In this case i think it is more like it is unobtainable past a certain point and you have to start over.

Quote from Black Telmoeres:

I really want to know what some people mean when they say hidden

Ok, in the original Super Metroid I don't consider icebeam as a hidden item for example, it's not in plain sight but there is a obvious path to it and at a point in the game without SBing you have no other place to go then to find it at which point you will after some little searching. The missile that in the norfair R-Tank room is hidden, it is in a block that looks just like every other block. Kraids lair could be considered to be hidden, but again at that point in the game you pretty much have absolutely no where to go so you eventually find it, thing hidden is this way is good, vital items hidden like that missiles is retarded.

Quote from Black Telomeres:

I'm talking about if the path to the item itself is hidden.

That is good, as long as it is not extremely tedious to find the entrance (like having the entrance in a very inobvious place when you have half the map accessible) and as long as the item is prevented to be skipped.

Quote from Fano7:

Insert Quote
Just beat Draygon, and the his items. Now what do I do? I can't go back the way I came, cause thats a dead end, but I also can't go forward.

CF in the mochtroid room.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]
Depends on what define as 'easily accessable'. I don't think it should be a walk in the park to find items, even if they're necessary. Super Metroid itself doesn't even do that for you. If you do, you're basically just guiding the player through the game by the hand if they are too easy to find and you never get the sense of accomplishment from finding something.
[/quote]

I think the main point in this question is to not make vital items possible to miss, like here in glitchtroid you are able to get to the last boss without an easily missable item making the fight impossible which is a major game flaw, but in these days where SB's are pretty much impossible to prevent without seriously linearizing the hack with things such as crumble grapple blocks i think main upgrades should be made easily located, not easily taken though, just leaving an item in the middle of a corridor with no enemies is not a very good solution.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]it's that you have to go back through hell to get it.[/quote]

In this case i think it is more like it is unobtainable past a certain point and you have to start over.

[quote="Black Telmoeres"]I really want to know what some people mean when they say hidden[/quote]

Ok, in the original Super Metroid I don't consider icebeam as a hidden item for example, it's not in plain sight but there is a obvious path to it and at a point in the game without SBing you have no other place to go then to find it at which point you will after some little searching. The missile that in the norfair R-Tank room is hidden, it is in a block that looks just like every other block. Kraids lair could be considered to be hidden, but again at that point in the game you pretty much have absolutely no where to go so you eventually find it, thing hidden is this way is good, vital items hidden like that missiles is retarded.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]I'm talking about if the path to the item itself is hidden.[/quote]

That is good, as long as it is not extremely tedious to find the entrance (like having the entrance in a very inobvious place when you have half the map accessible) and as long as the item is prevented to be skipped.

[quote="Fano7"]Insert Quote
Just beat Draygon, and the his items. Now what do I do? I can't go back the  way I came, cause thats a dead end, but I also can't go forward.[/quote]

CF in the mochtroid room.

Black Telomeres

2007-12-27 04:56:02 pm

Quote from Cpadolf:

I think the main point in this question is to not make vital items possible to miss, like here in glitchtroid you are able to get to the last boss without an easily missable item making the fight impossible which is a major game flaw, but in these days where SB's are pretty much impossible to prevent without seriously linearizing the hack with things such as crumble grapple blocks i think main upgrades should be made easily located, not easily taken though, just leaving an item in the middle of a corridor with no enemies is not a very good solution.

Well I definitely agree items shouldn't be missable if they're necessary.

Quote from Cpadolf:

In this case i think it is more like it is unobtainable past a certain point and you have to start over.

Oh ok, that's even worse of a design flaw than I thought then. I assumed because someone mentioned that he didn't want to go back through some Metroid gauntlet that people still COULD go back and get it but it was just hell to do. See, what I would do would be either to put the Charge Beam in a moderately high traffic area and not to hide it too badly - give a decent enough hint. Or I would just make it so in order to get past the "point of no return" you would have to have the charge beam, by putting in a pirate that couldn't be killed without it and a metal door or somesuch. But I'm not to big on having points of no return in my hacks (since they're not as linear), so I've never really had to worry about something like this. I'm usually very lenient with the charge beam though, since I know that to some people, it feels unnatural playing without it and so I tended to place it early and more out in the open than most items.

Quote from Cpadolf:

Ok, in the original Super Metroid I don't consider icebeam as a hidden item for example, it's not in plain sight but there is a obvious path to it and at a point in the game without SBing you have no other place to go then to find it at which point you will after some little searching. The missile that in the norfair R-Tank room is hidden, it is in a block that looks just like every other block. Kraids lair could be considered to be hidden, but again at that point in the game you pretty much have absolutely no where to go so you eventually find it, thing hidden is this way is good, vital items hidden like that missiles is retarded.

I suppose you're right about the ice beam. It's sort of on the cusp of being hidden but not quite, since the path has a hole in the wall and thus is a bit more obvious than most hidden paths in SM. Though if you're saying that because the game traps you in a specific area of the planet and you can't get out of there until you do get the ice beam (or SB) that would be the reason it isn't hidden, I couldn't really agree with that, since I think it has more to do with the passage being pretty obvious. But I think you're just saying that the game obviously leads you there with the lowering gates and because it requires a new item like the Speed Booster (not counting the possible SB) to get there, the player would be expecting a hidden item in that segment. They'd probably be sure to look carefully and thus they'd be even more likely to notice the hole in the mechanized wall that leads to the ice beam. As I said, for me, it mostly has to do with the hole being rather obvious I guess.

I agree with you for the most part though. I wouldn't say its good to place a key item on a hidden path without some kind of hint - whether it's that the map looks suspicious in that area, the map doesn't fill in all the way thus you know there's a passage there, that the block that leads there looking odd, or at the very least, the ever so subtle "this can't really be a dead end!" type of hint that I tend to use sometimes. But some kind of hint should be present, even if the player may miss it for a bit. The thing is, I'm not sure that Lance Uppercut feels the same.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
I think the main point in this question is to not make vital items possible to miss, like here in glitchtroid you are able to get to the last boss without an easily missable item making the fight impossible which is a major game flaw, but in these days where SB's are pretty much impossible to prevent without seriously linearizing the hack with things such as crumble grapple blocks i think main upgrades should be made easily located, not easily taken though, just leaving an item in the middle of a corridor with no enemies is not a very good solution.[/quote]

Well I definitely agree items shouldn't be missable if they're necessary.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
In this case i think it is more like it is unobtainable past a certain point and you have to start over.[/quote]

Oh ok, that's even worse of a design flaw than I thought then. I assumed because someone mentioned that he didn't want to go back through some Metroid gauntlet that people still COULD go back and get it but it was just hell to do. See, what I would do would be either to put the Charge Beam in a moderately high traffic area and not to hide it too badly - give a decent enough hint. Or I would just make it so in order to get past the "point of no return" you would have to have the charge beam, by putting in a pirate that couldn't be killed without it and a metal door or somesuch. But I'm not to big on having points of no return in my hacks (since they're not as linear), so I've never really had to worry about something like this. I'm usually very lenient with the charge beam though, since I know that to some people, it feels unnatural playing without it and so I tended to place it early and more out in the open than most items.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
Ok, in the original Super Metroid I don't consider icebeam as a hidden item for example, it's not in plain sight but there is a obvious path to it and at a point in the game without SBing you have no other place to go then to find it at which point you will after some little searching. The missile that in the norfair R-Tank room is hidden, it is in a block that looks just like every other block. Kraids lair could be considered to be hidden, but again at that point in the game you pretty much have absolutely no where to go so you eventually find it, thing hidden is this way is good, vital items hidden like that missiles is retarded. [/quote]

I suppose you're right about the ice beam. It's sort of on the cusp of being hidden but not quite, since the path has a hole in the wall and thus is a bit more obvious than most hidden paths in SM. Though if you're saying that because the game traps you in a specific area of the planet and you can't get out of there until you do get the ice beam (or SB) that would be the reason it isn't hidden, I couldn't really agree with that, since I think it has more to do with the passage being pretty obvious. But I think you're just saying that the game obviously leads you there with the lowering gates and because it requires a new item like the Speed Booster (not counting the possible SB) to get there, the player would be expecting a hidden item in that segment. They'd probably be sure to look carefully and thus they'd be even more likely to notice the hole in the mechanized wall that leads to the ice beam. As I said, for me, it mostly has to do with the hole being rather obvious I guess.

I agree with you for the most part though. I wouldn't say its good to place a key item on a hidden path without some kind of hint - whether it's that the map looks suspicious in that area, the map doesn't fill in all the way thus you know there's a passage there, that the block that leads there looking odd, or at the very least, the ever so subtle "this can't really be a dead end!" type of hint that I tend to use sometimes. But some kind of hint should be present, even if the player may miss it for a bit. The thing is, I'm not sure that Lance Uppercut feels the same.

Lance Uppercut

Edit history:

Lance Uppercut: 2007-12-27 07:14:06 pm

2007-12-27 07:10:42 pm

Well, I am all for hiding items and putting some kind of hint to indicate it. The problem is that somewhere along the way people started experimenting and left all the hints away. Now it becomes a tedious bomb-play to find one block that lets you proceed. Not good.

It is a good way to "hide" items, putting them at the end of some side-journey. At least the player expects that something might/should be there. The way to that sidepath should not be hidden insanely either, of course. Best way is to put PB/super missile/grapple/speed booster blocks to show you clearly that you need it before proceeding. That is the way I like it best.
I am a dumb player in the sense of finding hidden paths and items, but I do recognize the place you should be able to get through at the moment to proceed in the game. If you get some help from the map, that is even better.

The problem in Glitchtroid is that you are able to get past the "first point of no return" which is the teleport thingie after Norfair running. Ducknerd did mean that part to be impassable without charge beam, but that did not work out, at least not in the first version. I would be happier if I had some save state near that point, but unfortunately I did not. The frustration adds when there are tons of incredibly tedious metroids to deal with later too. That is the point where Glitchtroid lost its glitchiness and became a mix of noobsmasher and SMI.

Quote from Black Telomeres:

Some people want to be able to beat Impossible or this hack for that matter but can't because it's too hard for them. If they're not entitled to have Impossible tone down its physical difficulty so they can beat it, then I don't see why you're entitled to have a game tone down its hidden items so you can beat it. At least if someone really, really can't find an item, that person can post on a thread and ask for directions and they can be easily given (as happened when Redesign, and other hacks came out). But I don't really think hidden items would stop you from beating a game if you really wanted to and kept trying at it. I assume its just that they annoy you enough that they make you want to stop playing. The same thing is true to other people for some physical stunts required in some challenge hacks that you may believe are not too annoying to perform and may actually like.

This I totally agree with. Maybe that is what makes it so sweet for me (it is nice to be among the few and finest /JK) :D
On the other hand I am not very fond of asking directions or reading threads all the time, so maybe I get more frustrating when I am trying to find a way by myself. Also if some (semi-)unnecessary items are well hidden and I cannot find them, I will proceed without them, like in Pudding. Luckily I have the challenge-type of skill to press forward with less equipment than the average player (at least I think).

Oh, and sorry if I sounded offensive again, that was not all directed straight to you, BT :)

Well, I am all for hiding items [i]and[/i] putting some kind of hint to indicate it. The problem is that somewhere along the way people started experimenting and left all the hints away. Now it becomes a tedious bomb-play to find one block that lets you proceed. Not good.

It is a good way to "hide" items, putting them at the end of some side-journey. At least the player expects that something might/should be there. The way to that sidepath should not be hidden insanely either, of course. Best way is to put PB/super missile/grapple/speed booster blocks to show you clearly that you need it before proceeding. That is the way I like it best.
I am a dumb player in the sense of finding hidden paths and items, but I do recognize the place you should be able to get through at the moment to proceed in the game. If you get some help from the map, that is even better.

The problem in Glitchtroid is that you are able to get past the "first point of no return" which is the teleport thingie after Norfair running. Ducknerd did mean that part to be impassable without charge beam, but that did not work out, at least not in the first version. I would be happier if I had some save state near that point, but unfortunately I did not. The frustration adds when there are tons of incredibly tedious metroids to deal with later too. That is the point where Glitchtroid lost its glitchiness and became a mix of noobsmasher and SMI.

[quote="Black Telomeres"]
Some people want to be able to beat Impossible or this hack for that matter but can't because it's too hard for them. If they're not entitled to have Impossible tone down its physical difficulty so they can beat it, then I don't see why you're entitled to have a game tone down its hidden items so you can beat it. At least if someone really, really can't find an item, that person can post on a thread and ask for directions and they can be easily given (as happened when Redesign, and other hacks came out). But I don't really think hidden items would stop you from beating a game if you really wanted to and kept trying at it. I assume its just that they annoy you enough that they make you want to stop playing. The same thing is true to other people for some physical stunts required in some challenge hacks that you may believe are not too annoying to perform and may actually like.[/quote]

This I totally agree with. Maybe that is what makes it so sweet for me (it is nice to be among the few and finest  /JK)  :D
On the other hand I am not very fond of asking directions or reading threads all the time, so maybe I get more frustrating when I am trying to find a way by myself. Also if some (semi-)unnecessary items are well hidden and I cannot find them, I will proceed without them, like in Pudding. Luckily I have the challenge-type of skill to press forward with less equipment than the average player (at least I think).

Oh, and sorry if I sounded offensive again, that was not all directed straight to you, BT   :)

ducknerd

2007-12-27 07:32:45 pm

Eschews avatars

I agree and apologize for the charge beam. I should have anticipated that skip; I just hadn't thought to test the damage boost strat. Am making Ridlay totally unskippable (thank you, editable room states). However, I don't think the hiding itself was unreasonable, just the room's skippability. Also, how on earth did you miss the e-tanks?

Fano7: Crystal flash is your friend. Also, where did you 1-wall walljump?

Fano7

2007-12-27 07:51:40 pm

Every Bit Counts

yeah. I OWUWWJed (One Wall Under Water Wall Jumping) at the 3 block gap before ice beam. I'm guessing it wasn't needed. Anyways, how many tanks do I need for Norfair? I have 2 plus 2 reserves.

Lance Uppercut

2007-12-27 08:01:56 pm

I did not miss any tanks in this hack, I referred to Puddin, which I often do when talking about missing vital items. In that hack I did not have even one e-tank when I entered Norfair, had to pause-abuse all the way to the speed booster :D

I did miss Ridley in this hack though, where is he? I thought I went through all rooms in my last attempt already...

Fano: That gap is jumpable with double walljumping too, but your skills are still in great use =)
Also, you have enough for Norfair, you have to CF anyway.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-28 12:04:50 am

I really want to play this now after reading through and seeing how much fun you guys are having getting beat. However, should I just wait until the fixed version comes out and if so how long will that be? Unless it's posted up by now and I haven't noticed it...

Kriole

2007-12-28 07:21:32 am

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

This hack was awesome and rather easy but for one part... the grapple beam room nearly made me cry. I had 2 super missiles when I entered that room =(

ducknerd

2007-12-28 09:26:06 am

Eschews avatars

Quote from Kriole:

This hack was awesome and rather easy but for one part... the grapple beam room nearly made me cry. I had 2 super missiles when I entered that room =(

ROFL. I had a hell of a time testing that room using the full 15 supers! No love for the springball madness, tho?

Fano7: You're set, though it might not seem like it...

FP: I'm on vacation right now, and I'm making some pretty substantial changes. I'd expect the new version to be out around the first or second week of January. The hack as it is plays fine, just be sure to

explore the bottom of the bubble room after you get speed booster.

Lance: You should run into Ridley

shortly after the blue suit room, below the bubble room.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-28 11:53:00 am

All right, I give it a try now. Also, what's CWJ? I don't know ALL of our advanced trick acronyms yet. :P

Fano7

2007-12-28 11:58:11 am

Every Bit Counts

CWJ = Countious Wall Jump. It's not need for this hack, but you can use it instead of a DBJ (Diagnol Bomb Jump). next, how do you get Varia? and how do you make a block do that you can go through it one way, but not the other (like in the Super and Hi-Jump rooms)?

Lance Uppercut

Edit history:

Lance Uppercut: 2007-12-28 01:37:20 pm

2007-12-28 12:41:12 pm

To get varia, you have to

- Run left in LN
- CF on the way
- Mockball through the bridge
- Open the super missile gate from the wrong end with your last missile
- Morph through an object

Quite a nice collection of things for one quest, that is my favorite part of this whole hack.

EDIT: This really sucks, I am missing something because I simply cannot find the charge beam. So much for trying this again. I did find x-ray and Ridley though, but there is no fun when you are not able to kill Ridley either. Fuck the hiding, someone make a hack Super Metroid Challenge or something, where all the items are visible and on the way or behind some visible puzzle or behind bosses, otherwise it would be nothing but physical challenges and glitches. There are stupid people like me who play these things. I am not willing to spend much time browsing every fricken inch in the map to find something that is needed to proceed.

Also, stupid choice to make the cave thingie just one way, what if someone wants to get out but does not know how to blast the door above AND land on top of the shaft? In other words, if you reach that room with speed booster blocks without Charge, you are screwed because you cannot go back and you cannot kill Ridley. Maybe with TAS-style it is possible, but average player does not know how to open the blue door above that and get back, because your spinjump stops the moment you shoot. I know my explanation kinda sucks so here is a picture as well.

To get varia, you have to

[spoiler]- Run left in LN
- CF on the way
- Mockball through the bridge
- Open the super missile gate from the wrong end with your last missile
- Morph through an object[/spoiler]

Quite a nice collection of things for one quest, that is my favorite part of this whole hack.

EDIT: This really sucks, I am missing something because I simply cannot find the charge beam. So much for trying this again. I did find x-ray and Ridley though, but there is no fun when you are not able to kill Ridley either. Fuck the hiding, someone make a hack Super Metroid Challenge or something, where all the items are visible and on the way or behind some visible puzzle or behind bosses, otherwise it would be nothing but physical challenges and glitches. There are stupid people like me who play these things. I am not willing to spend much time browsing every fricken inch in the map to find something that is needed to proceed.

Also, stupid choice to make the cave thingie just one way, what if someone wants to get out but does not know how to blast the door above AND land on top of the shaft? In other words, if you reach that room with speed booster blocks without Charge, you are screwed because you cannot go back and you cannot kill Ridley. Maybe with TAS-style it is possible, but average player does not know how to open the blue door above that and get back, because your spinjump stops the moment you shoot. I know my explanation kinda sucks so here is a picture as well.

attachment:

Super Glitchtroid000.png

Fano7

Edit history:

Fano7: 2007-12-28 02:47:14 pm

2007-12-28 02:16:21 pm

Every Bit Counts

thanks, didn't know the last part.

Edit: Where is the charge beam? I don't want to skip it.

FirePhoenix

Edit history:

FirePhoenix: 2007-12-28 04:30:30 pm

2007-12-28 04:20:19 pm

Those Supers were evil. I couldn't do the DBJ so I just managed to pull off a CWJ for them. I must have touched the tank by a pixel.:P

EDIT: Now I can't figure out what to do after getting Supers. It doesn't look like I can keep going up the shaft outside the Supers room. I guess I'll look around some more but I don't remember seeing a SM door anywhere along the way.

Lance Uppercut

2007-12-28 04:55:57 pm

You have to go up the shaft, all the way up. Supers are for dropping crabs from the walls and then freezing them.