Speed tricks topic

2015-05-09 05:54:20 pm

For what it's worth, doing MBI before SA would make quad skip more lenient with health.

Also has this been tested on DS2? IIRC someone told me MBI doesn't work on quadraxis. If one were to do a sanctuary-first route (wheeee GA) in 100%, then this would also probably be faster...

TheMG2

2015-05-09 05:58:55 pm

Would there be any cannon uses in between mbi and then?

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2015-05-09 06:54:26 pm

kirbymastah: 2015-05-09 06:53:18 pm

2015-05-09 06:52:53 pm

For 100%, after SA, you could use the SW in dynamo access then get MBI before spider guardian; this would also mean no detour to cobalt translator, only getting it when we return the energy. This is a route thing maskedkirby and I discussed briefly, though i don't remember how that route idea got killed.

...though MBI before spider would be sorta risky since you don't want to kill spider guardian with MBI (assuming it works; does it?)

Another option would be (this was mentioned I think) doing the morph SW (one for gyro skip in any%) to get spider ball & MBI before SA, without cobalt. Then get the sky temple key and missile tank in dynamo access, get SA, then do quadraxis.

TheMG2

2015-05-09 06:53:52 pm

It doesn't kill spider guardian, it just keeps you from getting pushed around.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2015-05-09 06:56:38 pm

kirbymastah: 2015-05-09 06:56:13 pm

2015-05-09 06:55:35 pm

Quote from TheMG2:

It doesn't kill spider guardian, it just keeps you from getting pushed around.

Oh really? So getting MBI before/after SA should be faster if you do sanctuary first

...but grand abyss in 100%...

maybe there'll be other uses of MBI with the torvus -> sanctuary route. Does it work on DS2? should save time on the mini-quad in temple access too

TheMG2

2015-05-09 06:57:07 pm

Don't forget that cannons remove mbi, so if there are any cannons in between then, and chykka, it would not be effective.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2015-05-09 06:58:21 pm

2015-05-09 06:57:52 pm

Quote from TheMG2:

Don't forget that cannons remove mbi, so if there are any cannons in between then, and chykka, it would not be effective.

can't think of any cannons used in 100% after SA... there's one in temple grounds before the last sky temple key but that one isn't required. The ones in sand canyon aren't used either.

Also i forgot, but does anyone remember the reason why skipping cobalt before spider doesn't work? IIRC maskedkirby said you screw yourself out of getting cobalt if you do that?

MilesSMB

2015-05-09 07:00:58 pm

Main Gyro Chamber PB

kirbymastah

2015-05-09 07:01:57 pm

Quote from MilesSMB:

Main Gyro Chamber PB

welp. darn, was hoping you could show it off at sgdq too :(

also miles, do you remember anything about what maskedkirby said months ago, about getting spider before cobalt?

MilesSMB

2015-05-09 07:05:59 pm

No

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2015-05-09 10:17:17 pm

Hazel: 2015-05-09 10:14:21 pm

2015-05-09 10:14:09 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

I messed around with things a little and:

1. DS2 is not effected by MBI.
2. Main Gyro PB is not obtainable using MBI, which is annoying because you can just roll straight though the first electric-shield-thing, but the smaller one the item is in is actually solid.
3. The terminal fall in Workers Path puts you by the Sanctuary Temple door by default, but not close enough to the door to trigger the repair robots flying around. It might be possible to get onto a repair bot and then out of bounds? Maybe? If you can (and if it's faster) you could do the morph SW in Dynamo Works, transition to Workers Path, hit terminal fall, scan the Kinetic Orb Cannon, get out of bounds, transition to Sanctuary Temple, get MBI.

Again, that last one relies on getting into a SW in Workers Path which for all I know isn't actually possible. (but I imagine could be much faster than walking across that room).

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2015-05-09 10:24:14 pm

2015-05-09 10:19:49 pm

Quote from itsPersonnal:

2. Main Gyro PB is not obtainable using MBI, which is annoying because you can just roll straight though the first electric-shield-thing, but the smaller one the item is in is actually solid.

I was just testing this myself and you CAN get it with MBI, but it still requires doing the entire puzzle first. So it's annoying and very slow, but it is possible to avoid the cannon...

MaskedKirby

2015-05-10 05:08:12 pm

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

Quote from kirbymastah:

For 100%, after SA, you could use the SW in dynamo access then get MBI before spider guardian; this would also mean no detour to cobalt translator, only getting it when we return the energy. This is a route thing maskedkirby and I discussed briefly, though i don't remember how that route idea got killed.

If you scan the post after getting Spider Ball, the cutscene which would give you Cobalt will not play. Instead you'll get told to get PBs or Echo or Annihilator or whatever.
This might be the case in Agon too, but unlike there, the second layer (if it even exists, I'm not sure) will not give you the Translator but play another useless cutscene.

Maybe I did something wrong, it might be worth looking into it again. Maybe you can get the Translator after/before returning the energy, it didn't work for me right after Spider Ball, so I didn't bother continuing that run back then.

MrSpEeDrUn

2015-05-29 10:56:35 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

all of these tricks are rediculously difficult except for the last one; that one depends on where you land and its basically luck.

Hazel

2015-05-29 03:49:58 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

whoa

JustinDM

Edit history:

JustinDM: 2015-06-07 12:18:56 pm

2015-06-07 12:18:14 pm

Eh this isn't really a speed trick but I've never seen anyone do it. It's a dash alternative to the roll jump in Watch Station Access. Obviously a lot slower than the roll jump in every way. Start video at 1:06

Everything before 1:06 I was just screwing around. I edited the video but uploaded the wrong file so w/e.

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2015-06-07 12:25:00 pm

2015-06-07 12:24:45 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

You can use the Youtube editor to trim that video. Also there is a video of this on metroid2002.

JustinDM

2015-06-07 12:26:02 pm

Oh lol. So this is extremely old.

BioSpark

2015-06-07 05:02:56 pm

Quote from itsPersonnal:

Also there is a video of this on metroid2002.

funny how this is basically the ultimate insult nowadays.

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2015-06-07 06:09:10 pm

2015-06-07 06:01:54 pm

In this very topic. December 2004.

roll jumping hadn't actually been discovered at this point.

E-Dragon

2015-11-20 05:23:20 pm

I was just randomly thinking about any% routes and found a probably slower, but less annoying any% GA route with 4 E-Tanks. The basic idea is that you skip the first visit through Torvus to get to temple grounds by taking the elevator from Sanctuary to Torvus and go back again (to get torvus on the map) since you visit Research Area anyways to get the 4th E-Tank and it should not waste much time at all.

So there are 2 possibilities for this:
1. you skip violet translator meaning you have to wallcrawl in sanctuary to temple grounds which is slow and I've not found any sort of fast way to do it fast ( fuck Sanctuary Entrance )
2. Get violet translator and go via agon

One small disadvantage of this route idea is that seekers are a bit off the route, so you want to take the elevator from great temple get seekers and go back again.
However a big advantage is that this cuts out many (even if only smaller) wallcrawls and SWs making it a lot more consistent.

I haven't got to timing both routes, but it shouldn't be much slower at all.

I was just randomly thinking about any% routes and found a probably slower, but less annoying any% GA route with 4 E-Tanks. The basic idea is that you skip the first visit through Torvus to get to temple grounds by taking the elevator from Sanctuary to Torvus and go back again (to get torvus on the map) since you visit Research Area anyways to get the 4th E-Tank and it should not waste much time at all.

So there are 2 possibilities for this:
1. you skip violet translator meaning you have to wallcrawl in sanctuary to temple grounds which is slow and I've not found any sort of fast way to do it fast ( fuck Sanctuary Entrance )
2. Get violet translator and go via agon

One small disadvantage of this route idea is that seekers are a bit off the route, so you want to take the elevator from great temple get seekers and go back again.
However a big advantage is that this cuts out many (even if only smaller) wallcrawls and SWs making it a lot more consistent.

I haven't got to timing both routes, but it shouldn't be much slower at all.

E-Dragon

2015-11-22 02:40:28 pm

ok it doesn't work, you can't get supers, because the trigger for the pirate fight seems to not exist when coming from controller access ( at least without doing something that is slow ). I also tried reloading the room from temple access, but still no pirate fight.

UchihaSasuke

2015-12-26 01:52:46 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

did you pick up emerald? i know picking up that before kills the pirate fight trigger.

E-Dragon

2015-12-27 11:06:14 am

yes, I took emerald. So you could still do the route if you get emerald just after fighting the pirates ?
You would lose quite some time, but at least that's something. Thanks for clearing that up.
I could attempt to time the route and see if it's worth it. If it turns out to be not too bad it'd be a good route for more consistent marathon runs.

UchihaSasuke

2016-01-01 03:47:22 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

you'd just need to go up to the energy controller again so it's not much time lost.

i remember using a route like this for my segmented PB.