Speed tricks topic

2004-11-27 06:35:46 pm

I've been trying to skip half of upper torvus on Great Bridge. If we could get up there, that'd allow us to make a straight beeline for torvus temple without any sidetrips.

Off to the right of the scan panel, there's this slippery ledge thing I can make some headway on, but I can't get to the top. Maybe someone better than I at ghettoing could?...

Also seems like a *very* good 3bj and/or trhbj could get up to the top, but that's another story.

http://www.metroid2002.com/maur/great_bridge_attempt.avi

On a random note, LeCoureur, get on IRC anyways. :P

Prime Hunter

2004-11-27 09:32:10 pm

I've been playing around in the Hydrodynamic Station (Where the Marida music first starts playing) trying to get to the other two platforms to access the bottom part of the Bog. I've made some pretty close attempts at it, but each time I hit the side of the platform and slide downward.

I've tried to jump down from above, have the mini bloggs there knock me up, and combat dashing off of em, but nothing has worked. Most times I can come close, but I still need a bit of height to get there.

If anyone has the time to attempt this, or if you know of something better to try, this might be a good thing: It would make us be able to skip a few minutes of running around inside the water areas, and now that I think about it, be able to get the Gravity Boost before the Seekers (And possibly the Grapple Beam I think) :D

BoostR

2004-11-27 09:42:56 pm

Er....

Sorry. I've already done all of that. I discovered a trick known as the "Underwater Dash". It requires no lock on, yet you get all the momentum of a Prime 1 dash jump. You can get to both doors, as I have done, by coming from the highest platform still above water (it's a complete circle, btw).

I posted a link to an explanation (at SCU), but apparently, it wasn't read. :(

I guess I'll just copy+paste it (from here):

Anyway...so this morning (that was a few days ago), I was playing around with the physics-namely, the L and R buttons. What shocked me was this-I jumped sideways, and I FLEW AS FAR AS A DASH JUMP!

All right, I know you guys want to try this....but it's a bit hard. Not only to do, but also to explain. Here's what you do:

Lock your view down, as if you were doing an L-Lock from Prime (1st).
Hold down L, but not all the way. This is important.
Now, simultaneously press right or left, R, and B. Release B as soon as you press it.
As soon as you leave the ground-don't wait for it, this should be all one smooth motion-you'll want to sort of rotate the control stick a bit as if you were bending the dash the opposite way you're traveling. This is only a little bit, though. You should still be holding R, and L (lightly). It should make that little lock thingie move left or right, then curve upwards and slightly back in towards the direction you're traveling.

Takes lots of practice...I did it for about a half hour, and I can do it maybe 2/5 times. Maybe.

More basic explanation:

Hold L lightly.
Tap right or left, R, and B at the same time.
Release B as soon as you hit it.
Bend the jump slightly in the opposite direction.

I guess it's sort of a manipulation of the physics engine. I have no idea where all that momentum comes from, but if it's from the L-lock, that's seriously messed up.

Coming from an odd angle, I was able to dash to the light beam door in Hydrodynamo Station, that tall room under the Torvus Temple (with the water, moving platforms, etc.) I scanned the bridge thing, of course, so I can go back....
I'm gonna go for the Grapple Beam next. I know this doesn't sound like a whole lot of stuff (maybe the first post made it sound too good), but at least it's something, right? I bypassed that purple door.

Er....

Sorry.  I've already done all of that.  I discovered a trick known as the "Underwater Dash".  It requires no lock on, yet you get all the momentum of a Prime 1 dash jump.  You can get to both doors, as I have done, by coming from the highest platform still above water (it's a complete circle, btw).

I posted a link to an explanation (at SCU), but apparently, it wasn't read. :(

I guess I'll just copy+paste it (from [url=http://www.samusforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=609&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=165]here)[/url]:

Anyway...so this morning (that was a few days ago), I was playing around with the physics-namely, the L and R buttons. What shocked me was this-I jumped sideways, and I FLEW AS FAR AS A DASH JUMP!

All right, I know you guys want to try this....but it's a bit hard. Not only to do, but also to explain. Here's what you do:

Lock your view down, as if you were doing an L-Lock from Prime (1st). 
Hold down L, but not all the way. This is important. 
Now, simultaneously press right or left, R, and B. Release B as soon as you press it. 
As soon as you leave the ground-don't wait for it, this should be all one smooth motion-you'll want to sort of rotate the control stick a bit as if you were bending the dash the opposite way you're traveling. This is only a little bit, though. You should still be holding R, and L (lightly). It should make that little lock thingie move left or right, then curve upwards and slightly back in towards the direction you're traveling.

Takes lots of practice...I did it for about a half hour, and I can do it maybe 2/5 times. Maybe.

More basic explanation:

Hold L lightly. 
Tap right or left, R, and B at the same time. 
Release B as soon as you hit it. 
Bend the jump slightly in the opposite direction.

I guess it's sort of a manipulation of the physics engine. I have no idea where all that momentum comes from, but if it's from the L-lock, that's seriously messed up.

Coming from an odd angle, I was able to dash to the light beam door in Hydrodynamo Station, that tall room under the Torvus Temple (with the water, moving platforms, etc.) I scanned the bridge thing, of course, so I can go back.... 
I'm gonna go for the Grapple Beam next. I know this doesn't sound like a whole lot of stuff (maybe the first post made it sound too good), but at least it's something, right? I bypassed that purple door.

Prime Hunter

2004-11-27 09:47:37 pm

BAH

Why is it that everything I think of has already been done? I want to discover something on my own, darn it! Evil or Very Mad

Anyway... Nice job there: At least now I know that it was possible to get there. But, you were able to get the grav boost and heading to the grapple before seekers, right?

BoostR

2004-11-27 09:49:02 pm

I went and got seekers after I had all three dark Torvus keys. I hadn't tried using them on Chykka adult yet, and I wanted to. Much faster than the other way, but backtracking is also very far. :?

Maur

2004-11-27 10:33:20 pm

New, easier method of doing the underwater dash jump:

<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> oh sparky
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> 5th way ^^
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> you dont have to barely tap ANY button
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> O.o
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> can hold b?
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> ive done it 4x in a row now holding right + L
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> and then holding B+R
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> its just pushing b and r at the same time and you go
<Maur> you don't have to twist the control stick?
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> yup
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> nope
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> and im doing it on the 2nd jump too
<Maur> hold L, push left/right, b, and R?
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> yeah
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> i hold L, then hold the direction, then press and hold B and R
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> you spin in a circle if you dont go to at least up+right
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> so you might want to roll it
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> but i got to the white door without rolling

---

<Maur> i'll post the new uwdj in the speed tricks topic
<Scarlet^doesntmind-blackdoors> at m2k2? if so state i got gravboost before boost :)

You go, scarlet. :)

Edit:

<sparky^blackdoors-suck> scarlet, you rock
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> i made it, even with hitting my head on the top
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> post that too maur, so they know how much it rocks =P

New, easier method of doing the underwater dash jump:

<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> oh sparky
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> 5th way ^^
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> you dont have to barely tap ANY button
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> O.o
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> can hold b?
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> ive done it 4x in a row now holding right + L
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> and then holding B+R
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> its just pushing b and r at the same time and you go
 <Maur> you don't have to twist the control stick?
 <Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> yup
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> nope
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> and im doing it on the 2nd jump too
<Maur> hold L, push left/right, b, and R?
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> yeah
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> i hold L, then hold the direction, then press and hold B and R
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> you spin in a circle if you dont go to at least up+right
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> so you might want to roll it
<Scarlet^blackdoors-suck> but i got to the white door without rolling

---

<Maur> i'll post the new uwdj in the speed tricks topic
<Scarlet^doesntmind-blackdoors> at m2k2? if so state i got gravboost before boost :)

You go, scarlet. :)

Edit:

<sparky^blackdoors-suck> scarlet, you rock
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> i made it, even with hitting my head on the top
<sparky^blackdoors-suck> post that too maur, so they know how much it rocks =P

Red Scarlet

2004-11-27 10:42:52 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Taken from my post at suk:

Got the Gravity Boost without Boost or Seekers (right after Supers). Sparky and I were stuck doing that underwater dash for a long time..we found like 5 methods until I found what seems to be by far the easiest way.

Just hold the L button (all the way down), then the direction you want to spin to, and simply press and hold (all the way down) the B and R button simultaneously. Tilt the analog upward when you go where you want.

For a simple test, go to the bottom of Hydrodynamo, and hold the L button and left or right, and don't let go, and just press and hold B and R and you should do it easily. I did it over 30x in a row this way, and got to the black door my 2nd try (but I died at Alpha Blogg, doh).

So yeah, go not only Gravity Boost/Grapple before Seekers, but also before Boost Ball. :o

Go Boostr for finding Grav Boost before Seekers (now Grav Boost before Boost Ball).

I don't remember if the water down there in Hydrodynamo clears up after getting the Gravity Boost normally, but it didn't for me. So it might be a side effect of not having Boost Ball yet? Not sure. :?

Taken from my post at suk:

Got the Gravity Boost without Boost or Seekers (right after Supers). Sparky and I were stuck doing that underwater dash for a long time..we found like 5 methods until I found what seems to be by far the easiest way.

Just hold the L button (all the way down), then the direction you want to spin to, and simply press and hold (all the way down) the B and R button simultaneously. Tilt the analog upward when you go where you want.

For a simple test, go to the bottom of Hydrodynamo, and hold the L button and left or right, and don't let go, and just press and hold B and R and you should do it easily. I did it over 30x in a row this way, and got to the black door my 2nd try (but I died at Alpha Blogg, doh).

So yeah, go not only Gravity Boost/Grapple before Seekers, but also before Boost Ball.  :o

Go Boostr for finding Grav Boost before Seekers (now Grav Boost before Boost Ball).

I don't remember if the water down there in Hydrodynamo clears up after getting the Gravity Boost normally, but it didn't for me.  So it might be a side effect of not having Boost Ball yet?  Not sure.  :?

BoostR

2004-11-27 11:23:04 pm

Quite fun once you get the hang of it. To practice for getting to the Light Beam door, I went to the bottom of Hydrodynamo Station and began doing dashes in circles around it. Most were consecutive. This was all a few days ago, though. You'd think it would have caught on faster. :P

I'm also thinking it could be used to get to the portal, essentially skipping Gravity Boost-but there's one problem. The Hydrodynamo Station is unclimbable without the Grav Boost once you open the bottom door-so you'd have to climb Undertemple Shaft, the Dark World version. But...there are power bomb doors! Retro sux.

It was speculated that you might be able to enter Sanctuary Fortress Early, by boosting up the tunnel in Sacred Bridge. But I don't think anyone has gotten that to work yet. :? Then you might have to enter the Spider Guardian's arena from the back...ugh. Obviously, you'd want to have the boost ball, because there's this big thick door that can only be opened by a spinner (as well as various other puzzles that require it). It would also make the Spider Guardian's fight MUCH easier, not to mention actually possible (at this point).

Eurgh. You could've at least given us SOMETHING to skip easily. At this point, it only looks like the Annihilator, but only with the use of Secret Worlds. :( I like SW's, but it'd be nice to have some sequence breaking without them. But I hate wallcrawling. :P

<_<

BTW, itz liek, soooo teh Cap1t4l R. *Is picky*

Edit: The water never leaves. Or else I've been doing stuff wrong EVERY time I'm there. Wink

Quite fun once you get the hang of it.  To practice for getting to the Light Beam door, I went to the bottom of Hydrodynamo Station and began doing dashes in circles around it.  Most were consecutive.  This was all a few days ago, though.  You'd think it would have caught on faster. :P

I'm also thinking it could be used to get to the portal, essentially skipping Gravity Boost-but there's one problem.  The Hydrodynamo Station is unclimbable without the Grav Boost once you open the bottom door-so you'd have to climb Undertemple Shaft, the Dark World version.  But...there are power bomb doors!  Retro sux.

It was speculated that you might be able to enter Sanctuary Fortress Early, by boosting up the tunnel in Sacred Bridge.  But I don't think anyone has gotten that to work yet. :? Then you might have to enter the Spider Guardian's arena from the back...ugh.  Obviously, you'd want to have the boost ball, because there's this big thick door that can only be opened by a spinner (as well as various other puzzles that require it).  It would also make the Spider Guardian's fight MUCH easier, not to mention actually possible (at this point).

Eurgh.  You could've at least given us SOMETHING to skip easily.  At this point, it only looks like the Annihilator, but only with the use of Secret Worlds.   :(  I like SW's, but it'd be nice to have some sequence breaking without them.  But I hate wallcrawling. :P

<_<

BTW, itz liek, soooo teh Cap1t4l R.  *Is picky*

Edit: The water never leaves.  Or else I've been doing stuff wrong EVERY time I'm there. :wink:

Prime Hunter

2004-11-27 11:25:40 pm

Just another warning:

If you are able to get to the grapple guardian without heading through the room with the laser (Where you need to go to the dark world to get the spinner) here's something to remember:

Open up the portal's entrance (Where you need the bomb slot to open the gate) BEFORE you head off to him: I forgot to do that, and now I'm stuck inside the dark world... Meaning that I have to restart the run...

On another note:

I was able to do the "Underwater Dash" a little I think, but I think I found an easier way to get to the platforms instead of that. (Didn't figure it out until after reading about it though)

If you stand above the platform, on that circular platform that goes around the entire area, and jump off, there is a way to get to the platforms with the scanners: When I was falling downward, I pressed and held L and then pressed R and B at the same time briefly, sending my flying towards the platform where I wanted to go.

Basically, I did what I thought was the "Underwater Dash" but in a forward direction. I can land on the platforms about 90% of the time this way too

Just another warning:

If you are able to get to the grapple guardian without heading through the room with the laser (Where you need to go to the dark world to get the spinner) here's something to remember:

Open up the portal's entrance (Where you need the bomb slot to open the gate) BEFORE you head off to him: I forgot to do that, and now I'm stuck inside the dark world... Meaning that I have to restart the run...

On another note:

I was able to do the "Underwater Dash" a little I think, but I think I found an easier way to get to the platforms instead of that. (Didn't figure it out until after reading about it though)

If you stand above the platform, on that circular platform that goes around the entire area, and jump off, there is a way to get to the platforms with the scanners: When I was falling downward, I pressed and held L and then pressed R and B at the same time briefly, sending my flying towards the platform where I wanted to go.

Basically, I did what I thought was the "Underwater Dash" but in a forward direction. I can land on the platforms about 90% of the time this way too

Red Scarlet

2004-11-27 11:32:36 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Nono, not the water disappearing, I mean become not cloudy and stuff. It looks the exact same still (IE can't see crap).

BoostR

2004-11-27 11:56:45 pm

o_O

That's not supposed to happen...

Sullichin

2004-11-28 12:33:43 am

On your way to the spider guardian, in the room where you have to defeat the Quad to move forward, there's a way to kill it with one hit. As soon as you enter the room,equip your dark visor and shoot seeker missiles at the four red spots to enable the ball launcher. double jump right into the launcher and morph immediatley, and the Quad will spawn above you. You will launch from the ball and kill him immediatley.

Another one: When facing Quadradix, you can screw attack the echo thing on his body, it's much faster than having to shoot it.

BoostR

2004-11-28 01:01:43 am

Hm...interesting. How many...er...screws...does it take to take his antennae out? And don't you need the Echo Visor on to damage it? Maybe? :P

Guess not.

bushwacker

2004-11-28 01:13:24 am

The Screw Attack is always in 3rd person, how could you have a visor on? Rolling Eyes

And that quad things sounds great. I like the cut of your jib, Sullichin :o

Red Scarlet

2004-11-28 01:23:33 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I just crashed the game. :(

Looking for a way to grab Boost Ball after Grav Boost, I went to Torvus Grove. 2 Pirate Commandos appeared. No biggie. I killed them, and the door stayed locked.

Two more Pirate Commandos appeared. No biggie. I killed them, and then the door unlocked.

So then I shoot the portal in Meditation Vista with my Dark Beam, and right when I walk into the portal, BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ freeze, and then my Gamecube reset.

So how am I supposed to get Boost Ball? :(

Ok, on my next try only the first set of Pirate Commandos showed up, and I went through the portal. Rolling Eyes

bushwacker

2004-11-28 01:27:15 am

Maybe... uh... try again and hope it doesn't freeze Question

ajbolt89

2004-11-28 02:13:08 am

lol no way

Quote from Sullichin:

On your way to the spider guardian, in the room where you have to defeat the Quad to move forward, there's a way to kill it with one hit. As soon as you enter the room,equip your dark visor and shoot seeker missiles at the four red spots to enable the ball launcher. double jump right into the launcher and morph immediatley, and the Quad will spawn above you. You will launch from the ball and kill him immediatley.

Found this like 5 days ago, mentioned it on IRC but not here... room's called Temple Access, and yeah, that's hella faster.

So scarlet... does it freeze every time or was that a onetime thing?

Edit: Why do I say hella? Even I know that it's retarded... >_<

Red Scarlet

2004-11-28 02:24:41 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Quote from Sullichin:

Another one: When facing Quadradix

One radix is enough. :P

It didn't freeze the 2nd time, so I don't know. I think I went through the middle of the room, and maybe that loaded up two Pirate fights. The 2nd time I went around the left side.

trh

2004-11-28 07:41:26 am

I checked today what was faster between L-Jumping, normal walking and L-walking (basically holding l while walking), all of them turned out about the same, so no reason to jump like crazy or anything like that.

Another thing that I know is the same for Prime1, but no one ever bothered to really use it is to tap R while on a spider ball track, here's a video showing how its done:
http://trh.metroid2002.com/vids/echoes/6-607_7-541_spider-track_comparison.avi

And I also found 2 minor speed tricks, which I'm quite sure alot of people has managed to find on their own as well, but you never know:
http://trh.metroid2002.com/vids/echoes/dynamo_access_speed_trick.avi
http://trh.metroid2002.com/vids/echoes/hive_summit_climb.avi

Nothing major, but hopefully I'll get there soon ;)

Sullichin

2004-11-28 11:39:30 am

Quote from BoostR:

Hm...interesting. How many...er...screws...does it take to take his antennae out? And don't you need the Echo Visor on to damage it? Maybe? :P

Guess not.

Takes him out with one shot on normal. Screw attack is also a godsend in this and Emperor Ing fights, as you don't take any damage whatsoever if you're screwin' around the arena.

BoostR

2004-11-28 12:02:52 pm

Oooo...I like the Hive Summit speed trick. Very nice. Although Dynamo Access is faster if you just ghetto. :?

Meh. You can jump over a branch near the underwater Dark Beam door in the first main room of Torvus (Dark Version is Poisoned Bog). It cuts off all of that stupid turning. Might be faster if we could get it to work the first visit (w/out Grav Boost).

I also found a way to skip the pirate Commando fight in Torvus Bog...although it won't work backwards, but you could just use the portal in Dark Forgotten Bridge, right?

On the opposite side of the room from the high Dark Beam door, there are two rotten tree branches that you power bomb for a missile expansion. On the closer branch, there is a metal pointy thing sticking up. (there are several-use the one farthest away from the dark beam door. It's probably the only one you can stand on anyway.) Jump on that, then ghetto up to the top of the branch, which looks slanted, but is really a platform. It's a big ghetto, though. Try to stay in the middle, but going off a little to the right helps a lot.

From there, turn around, and jump to the lowest platform-right next to the top of the halfpipe. Walk around the top of the room, and drop in front of the door that is normally blocked off. No cutscene happens.

Not too useful, maybe. :? It's probably just as fast as a charged dark beam shot+missile on both of them, excluding the shields. Although it might help if you want to conserve missiles for the Boost Guardian on a low%, or if you're like RS and you're game is totally ****ed up and eats itself when you try to sequence break. :P

Oooo...I like the Hive Summit speed trick.  Very nice.  Although Dynamo Access is faster if you just ghetto. :?

Meh.  You can jump over a branch near the underwater Dark Beam door in the first main room of Torvus (Dark Version is Poisoned Bog).  It cuts off all of that stupid turning.  Might be faster if we could get it to work the first visit (w/out Grav Boost).

I also found a way to skip the pirate Commando fight in Torvus Bog...although it won't work backwards, but you could just use the portal in Dark Forgotten Bridge, right?

On the opposite side of the room from the high Dark Beam door, there are two rotten tree branches that you power bomb for a missile expansion.  On the closer branch, there is a metal pointy thing sticking up. (there are several-use the one farthest away from the dark beam door.  It's probably the only one you can stand on anyway.)  Jump on that, then ghetto up to the top of the branch, which looks slanted, but is really a platform.  It's a big ghetto, though.  Try to stay in the middle, but going off a little to the right helps a lot.

From there, turn around, and jump to the lowest platform-right next to the top of the halfpipe.  Walk around the top of the room, and drop in front of the door that is normally blocked off.  No cutscene happens.

Not too useful, maybe. :? It's probably just as fast as a charged dark beam shot+missile on both of them, excluding the shields.  Although it might help if you want to conserve missiles for the Boost Guardian on a low%, or if you're like RS and you're game is totally ****ed up and eats itself when you try to sequence break. :P

ajbolt89

2004-11-28 12:15:20 pm

lol no way

Yeah, you can jump over the tree branch by the Dark door. Just ride right up that slant. >_>

trh

2004-11-28 01:17:43 pm

Quote from BoostR:

Oooo...I like the Hive Summit speed trick. Very nice. Although Dynamo Access is faster if you just ghetto. :?

Yeah, I know, it was just another demonstration of the trhbj unmorph :P
I actually did the Hive Summit speed trick first time I was there. And then went back to the dark world just to check how I was supposed to do.. Missed the spinner :D

Red Scarlet

2004-11-28 03:07:27 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Sparky had an idea...which we'll try in a bit. Since BoostR and Lecoureur got the Light Suit without activating Agon...why not just skip the Agon and Torvus Energy Controller rooms? Just beat the boss and leave, but go to the one after Quadraxis? That'd save at least a minute plus.[/b]

GreenMamba

2004-11-28 03:57:51 pm

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

Doesn't the door lock behind you after you beat the temple boss? Or am I wrong?