Speed Running

2010-03-29 03:01:48 pm

Zeke's last post in this thread is almost 10 months old.... I don't think we'll be seeing anything new. Also, carlmmii hasn't been around for just as long, which is longer than he usually leaves for.

horscht(i)

2010-04-08 10:27:14 am

defrag in progress

The logic in your words makes little horscht(i) sad. :(

Zeke

2010-06-09 12:13:49 am

Time bomb set get out fast!

Sorry, missed this before. horscht(i), are you aware that there is an any% run? carlmmii did several back in '05, culminating with the first run to break the one-hour mark. It was big news at the time. Here's the SDA page for Return of Samus; you'll find carl's 59:49 there. Our reactions are in this thread.

I still love RoS, but I doubt I'll ever record a run myself unless I think of some gimmick for it. I would have to put some serious time in to topple carl's run -- if it can even be done. (We'd need a major discovery or innovation to improve on it by much.) Also, I've already got two Metroid hack runs on the back burner.

I share your desire to see more runs, and I don't share Gamma's pessimism. Because this is an old game, the board goes quiet sometimes -- and because it's a classic, sooner or later we come back.

Sorry, missed this before.  horscht(i), are you aware that there [i]is[/i] an any% run?  carlmmii did several back in '05, culminating with the first run to break the one-hour mark.  It was big news at the time.  Here's [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/Metroid2.html]the SDA page[/url] for Return of Samus; you'll find carl's 59:49 there.  Our reactions are in [url=http://m2k2.taigaforum.com/post/its_about_time_last_2d_metroid_game_finally_gone_subhour.html]this thread[/url].

I still love RoS, but I doubt I'll ever record a run myself unless I think of some gimmick for it.  I would have to put some serious time in to topple carl's run -- if it can even be done.  (We'd need a major discovery or innovation to improve on it by much.)  Also, I've already got two Metroid hack runs on the back burner.

I share your desire to see more runs, and I don't share Gamma's pessimism.  Because this is an old game, the board goes quiet sometimes -- and because it's a classic, sooner or later we come back.

horscht(i)

2010-06-11 10:16:46 am

defrag in progress

Hey, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I know his runs.
Sad to hear, you won`t run the game. But I agree there`d one or more new tricks necessary.

Emptyeye

2013-09-04 09:03:50 pm

Hey, posting in topics that haven't seen action in 3 years is cool, right?

So I've been working on Metroid II 100%, because naturally I pick one of the games in the series that gets no love. Here's my current best effort, a 1:12:04 by SDA timing, 1:09 in-game. As mentioned in the video description, I'm at a loss as to how the in-game timer works--it doesn't seem to be based simply on running "faster", since my run before this was a 1:13:14 or so by SDA timing and ALSO 1:09 in-game.

I do have a question--in skimming through this topic, Carlmmii mentioned a 1:05:XX 100% run. In trying to find a run faster than the 1:09:23 currently on SDA, I came across this, which I'm guessing is the run in question (This is a 1:05:26 or so by SDA timing). There's some interesting stuff in there, although I was shocked to learn that Spider Throwing isn't actually any faster than running to the left once you get the Varia (I tested it in VBA, though, and it really does seem to be the same as running to the left--2px/frame).

Anyway, I stream a few times a week (Tuesday evenings and a weekend afternoon EST are the times I usually play Metroid II) if anyone wants to check out my efforts to beat Carl's (Very good, for its age) time. :D

Hey, posting in topics that haven't seen action in 3 years is cool, right?

So I've been working on Metroid II 100%, because naturally I pick one of the games in the series that gets no love. [url=http://www.twitch.tv/emptyeye/c/2873021]Here's[/url] my current best effort, a 1:12:04 by SDA timing, 1:09 in-game. As mentioned in the video description, I'm at a loss as to how the in-game timer works--it doesn't seem to be based simply on running "faster", since my run before this was a 1:13:14 or so by SDA timing and ALSO 1:09 in-game.

I do have a question--in skimming through this topic, Carlmmii mentioned a 1:05:XX 100% run. In trying to find a run faster than the 1:09:23 currently on SDA, I came across [url=http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/pd0k88/metroid-ii-return-of-samus-speedrun]this[/url], which I'm guessing is the run in question (This is a 1:05:26 or so by SDA timing). There's some interesting stuff in there, although I was shocked to learn that Spider Throwing isn't actually any faster than running to the left once you get the Varia (I tested it in VBA, though, and it really does seem to be the same as running to the left--2px/frame).

Anyway, I stream a few times a week (Tuesday evenings and a weekend afternoon EST are the times I usually play Metroid II) if anyone wants to check out my efforts to beat Carl's (Very good, for its age) time. :D

JaggerG

2013-09-05 06:55:53 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Huh, does Varia actually increase your running speed? I'm sure it's still better to spider if there are gaps or steps or something, but there's a bit of set-up time for it. Hmm.

Emptyeye

2013-09-10 08:29:05 am

Yeah, the Varia must have had rocket boots attached to it or something, but for whatever reason, collecting it takes your walking speed from 1.5px/frame to 2px/frame. Bizarre! And yeah, Spider Throwing is still useful in places you'll have to jump a lot going left.

Emptyeye

2013-11-24 10:36:34 am

Well, looks like I need to start hooking my GameCube up to my DVD recorder.

I don't know quite why Carlmmii never submitted his 1:05:XX 100% to SDA, but in the meantime, here's a Twitch highlight of a 100% run in 1:09:11 or so, which beats his 1:09:23 on SDA by about 11-12 seconds. I know I can get the time even lower with better execution, especially in the early game.

Also, I'm now 99% sure the run I talked about 3 posts ago is in fact Carl's 1:05:XX he never submitted. My route is a little bit different, though I'm not sure it's inherently faster or slower.

kirbymastah

2013-11-24 03:03:21 pm

go make a 100% tutorial so I can start running the game

Emptyeye

2014-01-23 05:45:08 pm

So it's been awhile since I updated. Here's my new best effort, roughly 1:05:50 by SDA timing, so within about 25 seconds of carl's old run. Hopefully soon I'll actually be able to beat it.

Emptyeye

2014-02-19 07:53:04 pm

Figured I should put this here, too, in addition to the "What's your time?" topic.

Well, it took a bit, but I now have a 1:04:32 or so by SDA timing 100%. This beats carl's old run by about 50 seconds, and as a bonus, is (I think) the first 1:01 in-game time 100%. While in-game time is pretty much useless in this game, it still felt pretty cool to see. :) As you can see, my early-game (The first ten minutes or so) is actually the weakest/most inconsistent, and there's still a bit of time to be gained late-game too.

kirbymastah

2014-02-19 09:40:51 pm

nice

Emptyeye

2014-03-09 09:06:02 pm

Because sub-1:05 wasn't cool enough for me, have a sub-1:04. 1:03:51 by the current SDA timing. Sadly still a 1:01 in-game--even though I know intellectually the in-game timer is terrible, there's that irrational part of me that really wants to see it hit 1:00. :P

ArXyn

Edit history:

ArXyn: 2014-03-09 09:21:19 pm

2014-03-09 09:18:53 pm

I think you should follow kirby's idea, emptyeye. I will give the game a try if you make a 100% tutorial. I don't know if it is a game I will put too much into, but I would certainly love to give it a go.

Behemoth

2014-03-11 12:05:29 pm

Why should anyone have to make tutorials so others can run a game ?.

ArXyn

2014-03-11 07:24:16 pm

Quote:

Why should anyone have to make tutorials so others can run a game ?.

Can't tell if serious.

Jimmyfosho

2014-03-11 07:31:39 pm

forever seeking the answers.

Well Behemoth has a point. No one should have to make a tutorial just so other people can learn the game. It does help newer people learn at a faster pace (maybe? idk) but at the end of the day the ones that actually care about speedrunning the game seriously will learn and get better regardless if there is a tutorial or not.

ArXyn

Edit history:

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:17:56 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 07:51:27 pm

2014-03-11 07:47:00 pm

If he wants to continue to be be the only one that runs it, whatever. If you guys are content to keep the community as small as possible, fine. But this reasoning is why part of why the speed running community is dead across the series. Yes the dedicated ones will figure it out, but imagine the potential runners that may have had the potential, but we're put off by the exceptional skill required that nowhere could teach them. All the most popular speedgames have tutorials up the wazoo; there almost none for metroid, which certainly doesn't help the situation. As an antecedent,I know I wouldn't have even considered fusion without Kirby's tutorial. As a side note, I can only imagine how the lack of tutorials is hurting prime and prime 2

Jimmyfosho

2014-03-11 07:56:14 pm

forever seeking the answers.

-shrugs- I'm for quality over quantity. So I don't really see it as much of a problem. Tutorials are nice but not really required, you can learn most things from just watching runs of said speedrunner(s).

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2014-03-11 08:01:23 pm

2014-03-11 07:59:14 pm

A speed run is kind of a tutorial in itself. It shouldn't be that difficult to ask around for help on specific things. There's documented tricks on this site also.

It's not about trying to keep the community as small as possible. That's a little unfair to assume we meant that. That said i agree with quality over quantity.

ArXyn

Edit history:

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:24:40 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:10:15 pm

2014-03-11 08:06:10 pm

The community is so small for every game because no one knows where to go to start. I didn't learn acid worm skip from watching spidey's run that far outclassed my abilities, I learned it by watching Sam's tutorial.
What is this quality over quantity thing? There can be no new quality runners without a quantity to pull them from. Certainly there will be people that pick the series up, and give up quickly. But if there is actual instruction, then I think a few new additions to the group will be worth the large crowd of quitters that will fade away without even being noticed.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2014-03-11 08:32:11 pm

2014-03-11 08:27:37 pm

I doubt the first statement is actually true. I think most people just don't want to start because they can see how much time it would take out of their lives or are simply happier to watch other runners instead.

If a tutorial can help with specific things then that's all good, but i don't believe it should be the thing that's demanded in order to make people start.

ArXyn

Edit history:

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:37:43 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:37:25 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:36:36 pm

2014-03-11 08:33:21 pm

If that is true, then the crowd of not dedicated runners is a non issue. And how will we know until someone gets around to creating the tutorials? At worst, a few people try it out and never return. At best, a few new faces join the crowd. I know that for me, lack of time is not the issue, but lack of tutorials is. Obviously some candidates will be strapped for time, but I imagine that there are many others in a similar situation as me.

It won't draw people in that have no interest, but there will be people that do notice it that have played and they will take interest instead of remaining casual.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2014-03-11 08:41:34 pm

2014-03-11 08:38:40 pm

If you're not strapped for time why do you need such a quick an easy solution in the name of a tutorial.

Maybe I'm just old. I've noticed tutorials are becoming a thing now. I'm not saying it's bad to make them.

ArXyn

Edit history:

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:45:18 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:44:57 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:43:31 pm

ArXyn: 2014-03-11 08:41:47 pm

2014-03-11 08:40:38 pm

Because I don't need things to be unnecessarily difficult? If the only solution to a portion is practice, that is cool. Fumbling around not having a clue is just frustrating. A sequence of gameplay that is leagues beyond what I can understand, let alone replicate, is not going to cut it. Without a step by step breakdown of what is happening, it is hard for newcomers to digest it.