Should Super Metroid be remade?

2003-11-08 09:10:31 pm

Now that Nintendo has used up all of their old Mario games as sources for remakes, not to mention the twice remade Donkey Kong Country (GBC and GBA), I think it's about time for a Super Metroid remake. In my estimation, if Nintendo is smart, they'll have it planned as a release following Zero Mission. But knowing Nintendo, it's probably not even on the drawing board or they have it in mind for their next Gameboy. Fusion was fairly-well received and Zero Mission is looking great. (I hope the difficulty of the original is intact.) It seems like remaking SM for GBA would be a worthwhile venture.

What are you're guys' thoughts on this? Leave the classic alone or remake it? I personally would love a portable version of Super Metroid as long as they stay true to the original, i.e. don't mess with core gameplay elements like they did with Luigi in SMA4:SMB3. Graphical tweaks are fine but adding Samus' edge grip from Fusion would be a serious change.

Thread title:

Yoshi348

2003-11-08 09:21:36 pm

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Ready and willing.

It'd proabably work. I haven't played SMA4 yet... wish I could.

Toozin

2003-11-09 02:58:05 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Remade? No. Ported? Yes.

Light of Day

2003-11-09 01:27:33 pm

For all we know, Zero Mission IS a Super Metroid remake. From what we've seen so far, it seems more like super than the original to me.

Yoshi348

2003-11-09 02:13:07 pm

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Ready and willing.

Quote from Light of Day:

For all we know, Zero Mission IS a Super Metroid remake. From what we've seen so far, it seems more like super than the original to me.

...That's because all ports to the GBA use SNES style graphics. It's like, a law or something.

Quote from Toozin:

Remade? No. Ported? Yes.

Is there much difference anymore? *looks at Zero Mission* Wait...

Faust

2003-11-09 03:20:28 pm

Well, Super Metroid is getting a little old and I think it could use some upgrades. What do you think people would think of a straight port of an eight-year old game? Sure, the veterans would love it but the rest of the uninitiated would say it seems a little outdated.

Then again, the uninitiated don't really matter. Wink

Toozin

2003-11-09 03:33:33 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from Faust:

Well, Super Metroid is getting a little old and I think it could use some upgrades. What do you think people would think of a straight port of an eight-year old game? Sure, the veterans would love it but the rest of the uninitiated would say it seems a little outdated.

Then again, the uninitiated don't really matter. Wink

The Super Mario Advance series has been selling quite well on GBA, and those are pretty much straight ports of Super Mario All-Stars versions of games that are even older than Super Metroid. And All-Stars didn't change much more than the graphics. So I think a port of SM, maybe with graphical enhancements or some such, would hold up quite well.

Arkan15

2003-11-09 08:43:04 pm

Port? No. Remake? No.

Port with new graphics? YES...

Dark_T_Zeratul

2003-11-24 03:31:45 pm

The game is perfect as it is. A straight port would be best. Adding gameplay mechanics such as grabbing ledges would wreak serious havoc on getting certain items at certain times, and it really doesn't need updated graphics.

nate

2003-11-24 05:15:44 pm

yeah, i believe the sprite art is thought to be some of the best ever done. explains why a lot of fusion's sprites were either ripped directly from or influenced by super metroid's.

Helix

2003-12-31 12:15:38 am

Ported with no changes whatsoever. It is perfect the way it is, and i will not hesitate to kill the ones who would butcher an SNES game.

i also think that fusion/zero mission both need to use SM's sprites. these new ones are just plain blah. THey suck. you know it too.

The Last Metroid

2004-01-20 07:48:53 pm

It'll be included with Metroid Prime 2.

Toozin

2004-01-20 07:55:26 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from The Last Metroid:

It'll be included with Metroid Prime 2.

hahahahah no.

Light of Day

2004-01-21 04:52:21 pm

Quote from The Last Metroid:

It'll be included with Metroid Prime 2.

It's a SNES game, and a pretty darn good one at that. If it was re-released in any form, it'd be a Gamboy port.

The Last Metroid

2004-01-21 06:40:16 pm

Well, its either Super Metroid or Metroid II. I'm trying to be optimistic here! :P

Light of Day

2004-01-21 06:43:43 pm

We don't actually have a guarantee there will be anything unlockable at all in Prime 2, let alone another old game.

It'd be nice if ROS is unlockable, though. I'd finally get the chance to play it.

The Last Metroid

2004-01-21 07:05:14 pm

I'm aware there is no guarentee; but judging by Retro's actions with the first Prime, I'm betting there is going to be an unlockable game in 'Prime 2.

RoboBlob

2004-01-24 10:52:01 am

I wouldn't bet on that, but man I would looooove to play a ported SM. Best SNES game ever!

Syl

2004-02-05 05:21:59 pm

Having played through Super Metroid on monday, and then metroid fusion on tuesday, I can honestly say that an exact port would be a step backwards. I have yet to play zero mission, and I'll probably post here again once I have, but.. There are some parts of fusion that are small, but make the game far ahead of super metroid. (Same with some of the inclusions I've seen with zero mission).

Now, I'm going to look at this from nintendo's perspective, not my own, and incorporate the view of the "casual gamer"

1. absolutely no guidance system.
Prime did it right when they allowed you to turn it off, Apparently Zero Mission is using the same "hey, its in this room way the fuck over here" system that primed used. I think that something of that sort would need to be included with super metroid, perhaps just a slightly enhanced version of the map rooms. Of course, with the ability to turn it off.

2. Graphics
Super Metroids graphics are great, but theyre nowhere near the quality thats in Fusion or Zero Mission, not to mention that some of the artwork style has changed a bit, mainly chozo's. They could probably update the graphics quite a bit, put some more flash in it, make the enemies seem a little more *living* and just all around make it look better.

3. Jumping/grip/Running
in Super Metroid, samus is *far* "floatier" than she is in fusion, or from Zero Mission. I actually prefer the heavier version with the gripping onto ledges. Sure, this would require a large part of super metroid being remade to accomadate the new jumps, along with certain area's not being near as diffuclt with the "ledge then morphball" technique. But, I think thats the way metroid is now, and to change it would make anyone who hasn't a metroid game before Prime/fusion be horribly confused. (More people than you think.)
Not to mention the holding a button to run thing has been shown to work just as well without the button, which i think is just useless overall.

4. Bosses
Super Metroids bosses sucked, I'm just being honest, they are boring, dull, nothing interesting. They also share the same weakness for the majority and just take a few shots to the mouth to win. I think the bosses would need to be remade (espicially the 6 eyed freak) and put some difficulty into. I love how the water one (drachsomething) could be taken out if you knew that grappling into one of the destroyed turrents would do. Little touches like that need to be in far more of the game.

5. Story,
Super Metroid had none, and i think it should have optional area's that do explain certain things, but should be optional, or able to turn off... As great as the game is, a driving force would make it better if they could do it right. Espicially after reading the E-manga's (well, looking at) I'm very curious to see what the hell Mother Brain has behind everything.

Because of all those, I don'tt think that an exact port would be a good idea, things have changed over time and Super Metroid is showing its age. An upgraded port seems like the best chance, though hopefully not changing much.

I would love to see Zebes in 3d using a prime style gameplay, that would work incredibly well, then they could also include an exact port of 2d Super Metroid in the game, and everyone is happy.

I love super metroid, don't get me wrong, but... I don't think that the majority of casual gamers would understand it now, and would be frustated.

Having played through Super Metroid on monday, and then metroid fusion on tuesday, I can honestly say that an exact port would be a step [i]backwards[/i].  I have yet to play zero mission, and I'll probably post here again once I have, but.. There are some parts of fusion that are small, but make the game far ahead of super metroid.   (Same with some of the inclusions I've seen with zero mission).

Now, I'm going to look at this from nintendo's perspective, not my own, and incorporate the view of the "casual gamer"

1. absolutely no guidance system.
Prime did it right when they allowed you to turn it off, Apparently Zero Mission is using the same "hey, its in this room way the fuck over here" system that primed used.  I think that something of that sort would need to be included with super metroid, perhaps just a slightly enhanced version of the map rooms.  Of course, with the ability to turn it off.

2. Graphics
Super Metroids graphics are great, but theyre nowhere near the quality thats in Fusion or Zero Mission, not to mention that some of the artwork style has changed a bit, mainly chozo's.  They could probably update the graphics quite a bit, put some more flash in it, make the enemies seem a little more *living* and just all around make it look better.

3. Jumping/grip/Running
in Super Metroid, samus is *far* "floatier" than she is in fusion, or from Zero Mission.  I actually prefer the heavier version with the gripping onto ledges.  Sure, this would require a large part of super metroid being remade to accomadate the new jumps, along with certain area's not being near as diffuclt with the "ledge then morphball" technique.  But, I think thats the way metroid is now, and to change it would make anyone who hasn't a metroid game before Prime/fusion be horribly confused.  (More people than you think.)
Not to mention the holding a button to run thing has been shown to work just as well without the button, which i think is just useless overall.

4. Bosses
Super Metroids bosses sucked, I'm just being honest, they are boring, dull, nothing interesting.  They also share the same weakness for the majority and just take a few shots to the mouth to win.  I think the bosses would need to be remade (espicially the 6 eyed freak) and put some difficulty into.  I love how the water one (drachsomething) could be taken out if you knew that grappling into one of the destroyed turrents would do.   Little touches like that need to be in far more of the game.

5. Story, 
Super Metroid had none, and i think it should have optional area's that do explain certain things, but should be optional, or able to turn off... As great as the game is, a driving force would make it better if they could do it right.  Espicially after reading the E-manga's (well, looking at) I'm very curious to see what the hell Mother Brain has behind everything.

Because of all those, I don'tt think that an exact port would be a good idea, things have changed over time and Super Metroid is showing its age.  An upgraded port seems like the best chance, though hopefully not changing much.

I would love to see Zebes in 3d using a prime style gameplay, that would work incredibly well, then they could also include an exact port of 2d Super Metroid in the game, and everyone is happy.

I love super metroid, don't get me wrong, but... I don't think that the majority of casual gamers would understand it now, and would be frustated.

Radix

2004-02-05 05:36:07 pm

Quote:

5. Story,
Super Metroid had none

What are you smoking?

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-02-05 08:13:47 pm

You keep saying that casual gamers wouldn't understand and would be frustrated, but I can't understand why. Is it because the graphics are different? Those could easily be updated, though I really don't think it's necessary. Overall, I think Super Metroid was the pinnacle of the Metroid formula, and to change it in any major way would probably do more harm than good. Adding the ability to grab ledges would require a great amount of the maps to be redesigned, and that shouldn't happen. You say that the bosses were dull and uninteresting, but you never really said why. Just that shooting them a few times in the mouth (Phantoon, Draygon, and Ridley didn't even have mouths) did it for all of them. Lemme tell you something: It's the same thing in Fusion. Few of the bosses really had any particularly innovative requirements to beat them. Arachnus: Shoot him in the chest a few times. Nightmare: Shoot him in the head a few times. Ridley: Just like Super Metroid, pump him full of missiles. The Reactor Spider: Shoot it in the mouth a few times. While I do agree that adding an OPTIONAL guidance system would be nice, most of your other points would require the game to be completely overhauled, and that's something that definitely shouldn't be done.

You keep saying that casual gamers wouldn't understand and would be frustrated, but I can't understand why.  Is it because the graphics are different? Those could easily be updated, though I really don't think it's necessary.  Overall, I think Super Metroid was the pinnacle of the Metroid formula, and to change it in any major way would probably do more harm than good.  Adding the ability to grab ledges would require a great amount of the maps to be redesigned, and that shouldn't happen.  You say that the bosses were dull and uninteresting, but you never really said why.  Just that shooting them a few times in the mouth (Phantoon, Draygon, and Ridley didn't even have mouths) did it for all of them.  Lemme tell you something: It's the same thing in Fusion. Few of the bosses really had any particularly innovative requirements to beat them.  Arachnus: Shoot him in the chest a few times.  Nightmare: Shoot him in the head a few times.  Ridley: Just like Super Metroid, pump him full of missiles.  The Reactor Spider: Shoot it in the mouth a few times.  While I do agree that adding an OPTIONAL guidance system would be nice, most of your other points would require the game to be completely overhauled, and that's something that definitely shouldn't be done.

Syl

2004-02-05 11:06:54 pm

Radix:
Aside from the opening, and compared to Fusion, Prime, (and probably) Zero Mission, all the story of Super Metroid was in the intro, and then the little bit at the ending involving the metroid hatchling and mother brain, and even then there wasn't a single word spoken.

I meant, in general, the story of the game is nonexistant according to todays standards, and even the crappiest of games try to at least put some reason as to why your going further into it. Prime did this amazingly well with the scanning system, Fusion overdid it, and I'm not sure what Zero Mission's is like yet, but I'll know next week.

Dark_T:
I meant because of complete lack of guidance, at all, throughout the entire game. The graphics have nothing to do with it, I was reffering to how once you arrive on zebes, every single thing you do is completely up to you. You have to move around and try to figure out where you need to go next, and the only guidance you get is the small bit from the maps.
I personally love that, but because the last 2(3?) metroid games have had it fed into your brain exactly where you have to go, removing this very helpful ability would piss the hell out of a ton of people.
The bosses of super metroid were just kinda.... there...
Kraid was a decent fight till you realize he dies in 3 super missiles.
Drachma was nothing interesting, super missile into the mouth, didn't even have to really try or avoid anything. Though his final scene was great.
The spore thing was just.. "meh"
Phantoon is the way a boss should be IMO, though slightly less annoying, he had a weak point, he had a certain way you had to approach him, and he was hard.
I've never liked any of the ridley fights besides prime, his entire body is the weak point, its just shoot shoot shoot shoot, and I prefer my boss fights to be more interesting than just "a big enemy with a lot of life" Which is why i prefer Primes ridley to every other ridley in the series.

The bosses in fusion had a more defined weakpoint and strategy to them, Nightmare was more than just "hit him in the head a few times" first you had to attack the thing below him, deal with the gravity issue... then you had to try and hit him in the head while holding onto the ledge... far more difficult than anything in all of super metroid, also more interesting.
The majority of fusion bosses required far more effort than anything in all of super metroid, even the bosses of metroid II (well, the Zeta metroids mainly) were a thing to be feared and were difficult to take down, hell, the metroid queen's weakspot was something completely different.

I know that what I'm implying would require the game to be completely overhauled, and I love the game the way it is, but i think that for it to do well on todays market, that it would NEED to be completely overhauled, otherwise everyone would be complaining about "WHERE THE FUCK DO I NEED TO GO" and other stupid things.
I love the game, but its a thing of the past the way it is now, and to be remarketed, it would have to be redone.

However, in the latest IGN interview, whats-his-name behind the entire metroid series, says that if american gamers complain enough that there IS a chance of there being a port of Super Metroid to a console.

I love super metroid, its what completely defined the metroid series for what it is today, but times have changed, and though super metroid is still my second favorite metroid game (Prime wins out by a little) things that have advanced in the series do not need to be removed.

Radix:
Aside from the opening, and compared to Fusion, Prime, (and probably) Zero  Mission, all the story of Super Metroid was in the intro, and then the little bit at the ending involving the metroid hatchling and mother brain, and even then there wasn't a single word spoken.

I meant, in general, the story of the game is nonexistant according to todays standards, and even the crappiest of games try to at least put some reason as to why your going further into it.  Prime did this amazingly well with the scanning system, Fusion overdid it, and I'm not sure what Zero Mission's is like yet, but I'll know next week.

Dark_T:
I meant because of complete lack of guidance, at all, throughout the entire game.  The graphics have nothing to do with it, I was reffering to how once you arrive on zebes, every single thing you do is completely up to you.  You have to move around and try to figure out where you need to go next, and the only guidance you get is the small bit from the maps.  
I personally love that, but because the last 2(3?) metroid games have had it fed into your brain exactly where you have to go, removing this very helpful ability would piss the hell out of a ton of people.  
The bosses of super metroid were just kinda.... there...  
Kraid was a decent fight till you realize he dies in 3 super missiles.
Drachma was nothing interesting, super missile into the mouth, didn't even have to really try or avoid anything.  Though his final scene was great.
The spore thing was just.. "meh"
Phantoon is the way a boss should be IMO, though slightly less annoying, he had a weak point, he had a certain way you had to approach him, and he was hard.
I've never liked any of the ridley fights besides prime, his entire body is the weak point, its just shoot shoot shoot shoot, and I prefer my boss fights to be more interesting than just "a big enemy with a lot of life" Which is why i prefer Primes ridley to every other ridley in the series.

The bosses in fusion had a more defined weakpoint and strategy to them, Nightmare was more than just "hit him in the head a few times" first you had to attack the thing below him, deal with the gravity issue... then you had to try and hit him in the head while holding onto the ledge... far more difficult than anything in all of super metroid, also more interesting.
The majority of fusion bosses required far more effort than anything in all of super metroid, even the bosses of metroid II (well, the Zeta metroids mainly) were a thing to be feared and were difficult to take down, hell, the metroid queen's weakspot was something completely different.

I know that what I'm implying would require the game to be completely overhauled, and I love the game the way it is, but i think that for it to do well on todays market, that it would NEED to be completely overhauled, otherwise everyone would be complaining about "WHERE THE FUCK DO I NEED TO GO" and other stupid things.
I love the game, but its a thing of the past the way it is now, and to be remarketed, it would have to be redone.

However, in the latest IGN interview, whats-his-name behind the entire metroid series, says that if american gamers complain enough that there IS a chance of there being a port of Super Metroid to a console.

I love super metroid, its what completely defined the metroid series for what it is today, but times have changed, and though super metroid is still my second favorite metroid game (Prime wins out by a little) things that have advanced in the series do not need to be removed.

Yoshi348

2004-02-05 11:30:25 pm

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Ready and willing.

Heh, I don't think remaking it for the "kiddies" is the way to argue this one... but the ones you're really pushing are more of a "have your cake and eat it too" thing. Prime's optional hint system is a no-brainer: optional is optional, and nobody complained. I wouldn't push the story part too much, it's not something that I really care much about (it's atmosphere that drives Metroid), but yeah, many of the super bosses are actually pretty lame. Super's Ridely was pretty much exactly like Fusion's, except I actually prefered Fusion's fight since it hade more insane adrenaline factor. The only reason I liked Fusion Ridely, tho, is just because it wa so freaking mindless it was fun, and that prolly wouldn't work too often.

I hate it when old games get idolized to the point of absurdity. I don't like fixing what isn't really broken, but Super Metroid seems here to be some sort of untouchable idol of insane perfection, which is a bit silly. I know you guys are still getting the willies from Fusion (even after ZM, although it hasn't been out that long), but new != bad. Besides, it's not like you wouldn't have the old game anyway even if they did screw up.

Heh, I don't think remaking it for the "kiddies" is the way to argue this one... but the ones you're really pushing are more of a "have your cake and eat it too" thing. Prime's optional hint system is a no-brainer: optional is optional, and nobody complained. I wouldn't push the story part too much, it's not something that I really care much about (it's atmosphere that drives Metroid), but yeah, many of the super bosses are actually pretty lame. Super's Ridely was pretty much exactly like Fusion's, except I actually prefered Fusion's fight since it hade more insane adrenaline factor. The only reason I liked Fusion Ridely, tho, is just because it wa so freaking mindless it was fun, and that prolly wouldn't work too often.

I hate it when old games get idolized to the point of absurdity. I don't like fixing what isn't really broken, but Super Metroid seems here to be some sort of untouchable idol of insane perfection, which is a bit silly. I know you guys are still getting the willies from Fusion (even after ZM, although it hasn't been out that long), but new != bad. Besides, it's not like you wouldn't have the old game anyway even if they did screw up.

Red Scarlet

2004-02-06 12:42:45 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Syl, all those things posted in your post..is why I don't care about Super being ported or remade.

It would suck ass with those changes (or 'fixes') or whatever, and personally if a game isn't good enough for the people nowadays, they don't deserve special treatment.

Evil or Very Mad

Light of Day

2004-02-06 07:59:13 am

I think what Syl is trying to say, is that Super had a different target audience than newer Metroids have. It appears Super was targeted at people with brains.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting Fusion or people who like it, it's just a sad fact that too many people seem to believe that the "casual gamer" is anyone who needs the game to think for them. To me, at least, Super has a story at least as rich and involved as any other Metroid game, if you know where to look for it. Entering through old Tourian's escape route, finding someone beat you to Kraid's lair, only to be killed and left there, getting stuck only to have a native creature help you out, finding an abandoned underwater facility overrun with mochtroids, finally tracking down the object of your quest only to find the tube smashed and the metroid missing. Are these atmosphere? Or are they elements of a larger story, a story you have to seek out and tell yourself? Not every story has to be told with words, you know. Super is a very clever and rewarding game, but only if you want it to be.

So, is there really a problem with Super? Yes, the graphics could be updated, but Nintendo doesn't usually do that. Otherwise, the only problem is it's not aimed at the "casual gamer". Does this mentally challanged "casual gamer" really exist, or is it just a product of game companies mis-reading their market? To it's intended target audience, Super is Metroid perfected, and there's no arguing about it. The only argument is, has todays average gamer changed so much from just a few years ago?

I think what Syl is trying to say, is that Super had a different target audience than newer Metroids have. It appears Super was targeted at people with brains.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting Fusion or people who like it, it's just a sad fact that too many people seem to believe that the "casual gamer" is anyone who needs the game to think for them. To me, at least, Super has a story at least as rich and involved as any other Metroid game, if you know where to look for it. Entering through old Tourian's escape route, finding someone beat you to Kraid's lair, only to be killed and left there, getting stuck only to have a native creature help you out, finding an abandoned underwater facility overrun with mochtroids, finally tracking down the object of your quest only to find the tube smashed and the metroid missing. Are these atmosphere? Or are they elements of a larger story, a story you have to seek out and tell yourself? Not every story has to be told with words, you know. Super is a very clever and rewarding game, but only if you want it to be.

So, is there really a problem with Super? Yes, the graphics could be updated, but Nintendo doesn't usually do that. Otherwise, the only problem is it's not aimed at the "casual gamer". Does this mentally challanged "casual gamer" really exist, or is it just a product of game companies mis-reading their market? To it's intended target audience, Super [b]is[/b] Metroid perfected, and there's no arguing about it. The only argument is, has todays average gamer changed so much from just a few years ago?

	Yes.	(49)
	No.	(25)