PAL version any% and 100% speed runs

2010-04-07 07:57:54 am

professional chin scratcher

the spin jump and turnaround on the bombs is much harder and should really only be left to a TAS as it requires absolute precision. Run and turnaround is lot more consistant. I can do the jump and samus appears to be in a good position on the land but always ends up a few too many pixels from the ground than generally required so it's too difficult.

I didn't know you could do it in as little as 2 arm pumps on a 42 frame timer !. It's good that generally we all do at least double that anyway.

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-07 03:30:24 pm

professional chin scratcher

Cool thanks quietus for subscribing. It's weird to have my name on your channel alongside kriole, cpadolf and the others. It's an honer even. I'll keep you posted on my next run to come which is the low%. It's going be cool because on PAL I think it's harder and I do wonder how many people have done it to be honest. After watching saturns speed booster 14% run last night I think I found the awnser to my problem. Originally ridley was was a major bitch on PAL low%, but in a speed booster low% run you can get 15 supers instead of 10 which is going to help enormously on ridley. Also the wrecked ship lake can be got passed by a shinespark (hense avoiding the missles there and being able to pick up another super expansion). Bomb jumping on PAL is way harder so I think for PAL players the speed booster option for a low% run is a must. This run should be very interesting. It's going to be segmented as it's the sensible thing to do. I think hotarubi done it SS for bragging rights to be honest. Considering his segmented achieved the same completion time. Also saturns run was completed in 41 minutes so generally it's a faster option too. Maybe i could be looking at 45 or 46 minute turnout.

Quietus

2010-04-08 05:46:59 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Good luck with the run. I know it's a lot more luck dependent, probably because one wrong hit somewhere can really screw you over. While I was looking around at 14% stuff, I noticed Saturn's Metroid escape thing, which kind of answers what you were asking the other day:

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-08 12:00:15 pm

professional chin scratcher

OMG that is awesome i gotta try that !. If you think about it on an any% run or 100% run it would be easier coz you'd have a wider beam to clear the weeds quicker. So less messing around with the shooting. Cheers for that. gonna Practice it later. That could help towards 53 minute 100% and 33 minute any% !.

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-08 08:36:19 pm

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-08 07:23:18 pm

2010-04-08 06:13:58 pm

professional chin scratcher

I just managed it on emulator with slow down. It's very hard and I'm not sure how feasible it is unnassisted. First I think It's vital that you de equip high jump boots as this gets you further for the first jump, which in turn gives the metroid more momentum to pass you getting him out the way. After that there's a skill to the jumping. Rule of thumb is to never let any part of the metroid touch you whatsover as this makes the metroid home in on you for the HP draining and at that point there is absolutly no escape. You have to jump high but not far. Basically making the same path as the metroid circling you. So It's essentially chasing you and not catching you up by cutting corners toward you. Crumbs, imagine a run that contained a torizo skip and a metroid skip. Awesome !

[edit] Nope it's better to have high jump boots equiped. Just tested it and all the jumps after the first one are easier with them on.

Absolutly brilliant. I can now do it in real time on the emulator. I've developed a very methodical approach to it and the metroid is just circling me like an idiot. Holy crap if this becomes consistant this could shave, 15, 20 seconds in a run? Rememeber there's no need to go to the energy-missle replenish stations in that room if you can do this in an any% or 100% run. I don't think it's very advisable to try it in a 14% run though. I know he does it in this video but honestly, without the high jump boots it's not worth it. Your jumps have to be timed perfectly.

I just managed it on emulator with slow down. It's very hard and I'm not sure how feasible it is unnassisted. First I think It's vital that you de equip high jump boots as this gets you further for the first jump, which in turn gives the metroid more momentum to pass you getting him out the way. After that there's a skill to the jumping. Rule of thumb is to never let any part of the metroid touch you whatsover as this makes the metroid home in on you for the HP draining and at that point there is absolutly no escape. You have to jump high but not far. Basically making the same path as the metroid circling you. So It's essentially chasing you and not catching you up by cutting corners toward you. Crumbs, imagine a run that contained a torizo skip and a metroid skip. Awesome !

[edit] Nope it's better to have high jump boots equiped. Just tested it and all the jumps after the first one are easier with them on.

Absolutly brilliant. I can now do it in real time on the emulator. I've developed a very methodical approach to it and the metroid is just circling me like an idiot. Holy crap if this becomes consistant this could shave, 15, 20 seconds in a run? Rememeber there's no need to go to the energy-missle replenish stations in that room if you can do this in an any% or 100% run. I don't think it's very advisable to try it in a 14% run though. I know he does it in this video but honestly, without the high jump boots it's not worth it. Your jumps have to be timed perfectly.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-10 11:02:47 pm

Reeve: 2010-04-10 10:54:16 pm

2010-04-10 10:52:18 pm

One thing i don't understand in your 100% runs: I watched both, the youtube 54 min and the .smc file and saw the same mistake happening. After getting the first power bomb on the way to Wrecked Ship, you lay a Power Bomb to open the door that leads to the Brinstar Shaft, and after getting the elevator up to Crateia and opening the Power Bomb door (still on the way to Wrecked Ship) you lay another Power Bomb to open the door as if you were planning to go to Brinstar passing through there. And in the end it doesn't happen because it's only worth in a any% run to open this two door. So you loose time morphing to lay the power bomb two times and waste two power bombs in the way to wrecked ship where power bombs are a pain in the ass in a 100% run, and loose time by not having this power bombs to clean the way in at least two places i can remember (the Missile/Reserve Tank before the Gravity Suit is one of them), and in the end you don't even use the doors you openned back there. Am i missing something or is it a mistake? By the way, great runs. I'm trying a 100% run using just savestates just for fun. As soon as i finish it i'll post here, maybe there's something you can use.

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-11 12:35:22 pm

professional chin scratcher

Good point. Well spotted. Can honestly say that I open those doors out of habit and indeed I don't need to open them with power bombs on the way out at all. All i can say is ... SHIT lol.

Cool looking forward to seeing your run !

I can do the giant metroid skip on console now so hopefully I can use it in a future run. I'm doing any% and 100% again later this year to shave a minute off both of them.

Quietus

2010-04-11 12:40:19 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

My worst habit is keep bomb-jumping when I have Spring Ball. Evil or Very Mad

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-11 12:51:10 pm

professional chin scratcher

Quote from Quietus:

My worst habit is keep bomb-jumping when I have Spring Ball. Evil or Very Mad

HAHA

I think things like this happen because you have to do certain things in an any% run and not in a 100%, and vice versa. So when I do any% runs first for several months you end up doing things in your 100% out of habit that don't need to be done.

Quietus

2010-04-11 12:53:27 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I did it at least four times in my recent run of Stardust. OK, three were in a row, but that just makes it worse! d'oh!

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-13 10:44:16 am

professional chin scratcher

Well I'm going to have to abandon the idea of doing my 14% run using the speed booster version. I managed to kill ridley for the first time last night but when I got to tourian, the metroids (which have to be dispatched using power bombs) hardly ever drop power bombs. Saturn manipulated item drop on emulator, but even though I saved it before in the first save room, the best I ever got was 1 power bomb from one of the four metroids in that room !. I think it's therefore a silly option to do it this way unnassisted.

To top it all off I'm dubious about speed booster possibly being a quicker version than the ice one. Only one part that is significantly quicker and that is Draygon as I can shinespark him to death.

But after all this, I decided to do a quick ice beam version before I went to bed last night, and I surprised myself completely by not only getting across the missle lake by bomb jumping ON THE FIRST ATTEMPT !! lol, but I killed Ridley on first attempt too. After going to tourian and killing the metroids the proper way I'm now saved at the last save point before mother brain. I also gave mother brain a little test drive and she doesn't seem too bad. I managed to get very far into the fight without taking any damage, but then I let my guard down a little and got annihilated. Still it's not as hard as Ridley in my oppinion.

So this is what the run will be now, the ice beam version. But it will still be segmented as I want to get across the missle lake on as few attempts as possible.

Well I'm going to have to abandon the idea of doing my 14% run using the speed booster version. I managed to kill ridley for the first time last night but when I got to tourian, the metroids (which have to be dispatched using power bombs) hardly ever drop power bombs. Saturn manipulated item drop on emulator, but even though I saved it before in the first save room, the best I ever got was 1 power bomb from one of the four metroids in that room !. I think it's therefore a silly option to do it this way unnassisted.

To top it all off I'm dubious about speed booster possibly being a quicker version than the ice one. Only one part that is significantly quicker and that is Draygon as I can shinespark him to death.

But after all this, I decided to do a quick ice beam version before I went to bed last night, and I surprised myself completely by not only getting across the missle lake by bomb jumping ON THE FIRST ATTEMPT !! lol, but I killed Ridley on first attempt too. After going to tourian and killing the metroids the proper way I'm now saved at the last save point before mother brain. I also gave mother brain a little test drive and she doesn't seem too bad. I managed to get very far into the fight without taking any damage, but then I let my guard down a little and got annihilated. Still it's not as hard as Ridley in my oppinion.

So this is what the run will be now, the ice beam version. But it will still be segmented as I want to get across the missle lake on as few attempts as possible.

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2010-04-13 10:53:01 am

2010-04-13 10:52:15 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm surprised you even tried it with the Speed Booster option, as I thought this was only possible via TAS, due to the exact reason you specified.

If you want to see it in all its glory, you should see NameSpoofer's run, which was sadly rejected. Sad

It has some of the most ridiculous techniques / luck manipulation / optimisation I've seen, and has the best Draygon fight ever. I kid you not, it's worth watching for that fight alone. aiwebs_011

Edit: Added link - duh!

lxx4xNx6xxl

2010-04-13 11:09:32 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Nice! I'm glad you were able to defeat Ridley in the first attempt. I kind of knew you would end up going the Ice Beam route not only is it easier its faster. I also believe you will end up doing it in a Single Segment just to eventually prove your dominance of the game. I can't wait until you feel comfortable enough to start recording it. I think you just need to practice the Diagonal Bomb Jump a little bit more for consistency is all. Even though its harder on PAL you should be alright. I myself personally hate the Diagonal Bomb Jump because its a real pain in the ass.

Quietus

2010-04-13 11:18:01 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

You should watch the above run too! It makes a mockery of even the idea of diagonal bomb-jumping over the missile lake. Razz

lxx4xNx6xxl

2010-04-13 11:30:42 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Yea the funny thing is I just downloaded it yesterday and I planed to watch it later today. I'm really glad you posted it though because anyone who hasn't seen it should. I watched Saturn's 14% last night and I was like... How didn't this get accepted? It was really amazing.

Quietus

2010-04-13 11:32:38 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It was because it was too similar to an existing run, posted within a relatively short time period.

Nach's actual comment:

Quote:

While this movie is more entertaining than some other lowest no SRAM hacking submissions, it looks too much like our any % run, just slower.

Publishing a movie has to be more about entertainment, not just route selection. I'm not saying this movie is bad in itself, but it was beaten to publication by another too similar but better movie.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-13 12:00:40 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-13 11:57:35 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-13 11:55:52 am

2010-04-13 11:54:52 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Well that's pretty stupid if you ask me. Anyway have you checked the main page lately Quietus? Nate updated the main page with something that for some reason has not been explained for far too long.

Quietus

2010-04-13 12:39:51 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I take it you mean the m2k2 main page. And yes, I have. I know they had the explanation up for years, but without a video. I first saw it used by Hotarubi way back when submitted his runs to SDA - just after the n00b tube. Many of us have nailed this charge, but it's always nice to have a video for all visitors. I'm susprised nate didn't remove the 'short charge' listing, as they're one and the same, but the 'super short charge' listing is the new one with your vid. If I'm honest, the majority of the main pages are probably due a large overhaul, as there are numerous tricks for the Metroid games that haven't been included.

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-13 12:43:21 pm

professional chin scratcher

Thank. Just watched namespoofers run. WOW !. It's also the first time I've seen a proper TAS on my emulator. Always watched them on youtube. I like the way he killed kraid on his first mouth open. The one that gets him to open his jaw a little after his power beam shot. That's insane.

When I watched saturns version of it which imitates human play I immediatly was compelled to do the speed booster way as well. But little did I know that the metroids rarely drop power bombs, making this a no go for unnassisted play. The run itself though is the same difficulty as ice beam way imo and is quite fun. Also seeing now that namespoofers run had a completion time of 29 minutes compared to saturns ice beam TAS of 27 minutes it's clear it is slower.

So ice beam version it is for me then !

Quietus

2010-04-13 01:16:31 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I remember Spoofer telling me that the Power Bomb drops in Tourian drove him insane, so, yeah, for a console run - and your sanity - please stick with Ice Beam! aiwebs_011

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-13 01:21:24 pm

professional chin scratcher

Quote from Quietus:

I remember Spoofer telling me that the Power Bomb drops in Tourian drove him insane, so, yeah, for a console run - and your sanity - please stick with Ice Beam! aiwebs_011

hehehehe, will do !

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-15 04:15:07 am

2010-04-15 03:22:40 am

Found an interesting and easy way to do a reverse kago real time in the spikes elevator in Nofair, after defeating Ridley. I'm using savestates in 95% only in door transitions, the other 5% maybe less is to manipulate luck and the drops, and phantoon patterns. Oh, and i had to use a second savestate in the kago spikes elevator when heading to fight Ridley, the first kago is easy, but the timing to do the second is a pain deep in the ass! The run is almost finished.

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-15 06:09:35 pm

professional chin scratcher

Cool I'm looking forward to it !

Reeve

2010-04-17 01:16:00 pm

I'm posting the .smv file with the 100% run i've made with real time + savestates in door transitions (some more savestates to manipulate luck), but the run is not finished yet. I'm in Tourian and i'm having problems to refill the super missiles. I'm thinking about redoing the final part of the run and stop to refill in the ship. My time in the first save in tourian is 39 min, what makes me think that the final time will be something about 46 or maybe 45 min. Use the NTSC version of the game.

attachment:

SM_100%_Speedrun_by_Reeve.smv

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-17 05:04:36 pm

professional chin scratcher

Ok what rom and what emulator are you using ?. Because when you get to the room that has two flights of stairs it de syncs (I think that's what it's called) at the bottom of the 2nd set of stairs and samus is jumping around in all the wrong places and being generally random.