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Reeve
2010-04-17 08:24:43 pm
Sorry, forgot to mention that. The Rom is "Super Metroid (JU) [!].smc" and the emulator is below. The movie is included in the pack, but not the rom.
attachment:
Snes9x 1.43 v17.zip
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-18 07:45:39 am
2010-04-18 07:44:43 am
Although i'm satisfied with the results, I'd like to point some places that i could be faster. First of all i'd like to say that i didn't planned the run, and that cost me some time because of the item selection and because i forgot to turn off the ice beam after defeating Ridley. I tried to go less to the pause screen, that's why i didn't turned off the ice beam after climbing the crateria shaft going to wrecked ship, but i think it didn't cost me any time. I use to pause the game to change something when i'm sure it will not make me mess things up, so i only do it when shinesparking or running on a really large area or after defeating a boss.
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-19 07:24:18 am
Reeve: 2010-04-19 12:27:54 am
Reeve: 2010-04-18 11:52:08 am
Reeve: 2010-04-18 11:50:06 am
Reeve: 2010-04-18 11:48:18 am
Reeve: 2010-04-18 11:44:10 am
2010-04-18 11:30:16 am
Places that I could have been faster:

1. Ceres station can be faster, but if you're speedrunning in realtime you'll be satisfied with a 00:46.
2. Torizo can be killed faster.
3. Don't know if it's faster doing the kagoball or just jumping above and landing next to the second kago in the room before the elevator to Brinstar. I'll use the amaurea script to measure this later.
4. The scape of the first Super Missile area can be faster if i shoot the door earlier and than jumping from the ledge and land with a mockball going to the other screen.
5. The noob bridge area could be faster if i had ignored the first enemy and jumped above him and killed the last one close to the door. The thing is i have problems hitting the select button to change the itens and after shoting a charged beam i end up messing to open the door. Although after some time i realized that i could have changed to the Missile to kill the creature, so i could armpump more on the bridge and would have to hit the select button only one time to change to the Super.
6. Don't know if you guys noted it, but shooting a charged beam on Kraid to make him open his mouth make his claws stop. Just be sure to wait till his claws are under the line of his mouth to hit him and you'll have no problems shooting in his claws. Lost 1 or 2 seconds waiting for the right time.
7. In the large area going to the Speed booster, instead of doing the mockball as Giganotabehemoth87, i just run and armpump as fast as i can because i don't have to worry about anything than armpump. If i do the mockball, i loose a chance to gain time armpumping and loose some when have to unmorph.
8. In the big spiked room before etecoons area i could have been faster but i was afraid to run out of powerbombs, so i decided to wait and collect some.
9. Gold Torizo Area: Think i lost time by not landing the powerbomb in the air when falling from the crumble bloks after collecting the Missile. Lost time too by not shooting him fast enough, but that was intentional as i wanted to shoot the stuff that was going out of his mouth to get some Super Missiles for the fight with Ridley. But i took too long to give him the last shot.
10. In the room before Ridley, although i think it's faster the way i did, it's too risky, better and safer is charging the shinespark in the room before and releasing in the next.
11. In the Bubble room, that where there is a missile in the right down corner and where you jump to shortcut to the speedbooster, i should have landed a powerbomb as i touched the ground when morphed to go to the missile in the corner. That way i could save time opening the passage in the left without having to morph again as i did.
12. In Crocomire room, after push him to the lava, you can take the energy tank and still on the plataform, on the ledge, aim down+right, jump and shoot a charged beam to open the left door. Or you can go to the corner in the lava, crouch and shoot a charged beam aiming up+right to open the door. That way you won't have to loose time opening the door, and if you're good enough in super short charge, you can charge the shinespark right when the bones of crocomire apear and release it when the screen is free. I only realise this was possible when i was ahead in the game. I tried to charge the shinespark in that space but i couldn't, anyway it would still save time if you charge the shinespark right when the screen is released and shinespark to the left.
13. In the backtrack to Kraid's area to get the powerbomb i lost time because the ice beam was turned on, but i don't think it was much.
14. In the morphball item area, i lost time by not doing the mockball after destroing the blocks with the power bomb. Honestly i woudn't try this on a console run, it's damn hard to do it because you have too much speed to jump at the right high and you have to quickly shoot the block and do the mockball. I think it's safer to just jump, fire the block and go .
15. In the power bomb room before the gauntlet, i lost time by not landing in the plataform, so i had to jump to reach the plataform and so leave the room. I realised that i jumped in the right corner of the spike when i had to jump in the left corner.
16. As you guys can see in Tourian, i can't be faster than Hotarubi in his 100% run killing the metroids and crossing the rooms even trying several times. The great problem here is i use the default configuration since 1994, so during the game i often have to change my hands position to do some tricks. Particularly in Tourian, you need to hit the select button thousands of times and as quickly as if your finger were a machinegun. But you guys who play using the defaut configuration know how hard is to reach the select button. The problem is i played too much using this settings and now is quite annoying to change.

I certainly had another mistakes on the run, but this i listed was that i think is worth to point.
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-04-19 08:32:16 pm
professional chin scratcher
Well I watched the run and it's awesome, allthough it's not complete. Ive learned more than a thing or two from it. Some things I'll definatly use in my upcoming runs. Also you definatly have a degree more logic than me when it comes to this game, from watching the run and your post on what you could have done better, although not all of them I would personally agree on. They are as follows.

First of all in ceres I would be blown away to get 00:46 on the escape. Hell, I even accepted 00:43 on my any% SS run. So I think to just say that you'd be satisfied to get 00:46 is an major understatement.

I didn't know that hitting Kraid with a charged shot stops his claw movement. Hopefully this is the same for PAL.

In point 8 about power bomb management. If I remember correctly in your run you had 1 or 0 power bombs left which is absolutely fine at that section because you collect 5 power bombs at the top of the wall jump shaft.

In the pre speed booster room I've already learnt not to mock ball to the speed booster now anyway as I realise from testing It's a little bit slower than running and arm pumping. But can I point out that the reason why I did the mockball at all in the early days is because it's faster than running and arm pumping casually. Of course if one can arm pump like a maniac which I can do now lol then mock ball is pointless and slower because you've got the unmorph at the end.

I'm not sure about point 12 being quicker refering to the crocomire room exiting from a shinespark. You've got the crash animation to get out of in the other room when surely a fast space jumping would get you there quicker. (I messed this up in my 100% run by touching part of the wall I think and essentially stopping).

Your backtrack to get the missles in kraid area could have been done when you exited maridia as your traveling faster. You can do my trick of jumping just before you enter the elevator room, as samus touches the ceiling, have samus already aiming down, shoot a super and land for a mock ball and spring ball onto the platform. It's a good formula to make it work consistantly and honestly it looks harder than it actually is. Practice makes perfect.

In the morph ball area I was lucky to get a mock ball the way I did. You mentioned shooting whilst in the air and then land for the mock ball. That's not nesassary as you can shoot whilst crouched when the blocks are being destroyed by your power bomb and follow your beam and it breaks that little block. It's one of those things you always try but hardly ever manage it and you don't really waste any time trying it, but I was lucky to get it to work in my run and it looks so cool.

The metroid killing can be done Hotarubi esque even with default setup because I used to do it. Granted your index finger has to reach for the select and then cancel and then shoot and then repeat, all the while manouvering samus accordingly. It sounds unfeasible but with practice it can be done. I have select on the L button now anyway to make it even better in the first metroid room for me. Trust me, change the select button to the L button, give it a few days of practice and you won't look back. I was the same as you I didn't want to change. With the new setup you can learn to aim the diagonals entirley by the d pad and it's brilliant. Even ledge grabbing is done by it and the game will feel very fresh again for you.

All the other points you made about how you could have been faster and what should or should not be attempted in a console run I totally agree on. Although some points you made were so minor I don't think would have any impact on final completion time at all and arnt worth worrying about. Namely points 2 - 5.

Great run though bro. I'm just off to practice some things I learnt !!
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-19 11:13:46 pm
Reeve: 2010-04-19 11:10:04 pm
2010-04-19 11:05:10 pm
Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
First of all in ceres I would be blown away to get 00:46 on the escape.


I wouldn't go for a SS run in this game, at least in my atual condition, i would try a Segmented run and the first segment would be the Ceres Station. Anyway, if you try harder, you'll see that a 00:46 is not that hard. I know you have been watching Hotarubi's runs too and you can see that he aways end Ceres with a time around 00:45/00:46.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
I didn't know that hitting Kraid with a charged shot stops his claw movement. Hopefully this is the same for PAL.


Yeah, this trick helps a lot. I have no problems with the time to shoot the super missiles, but his claws were always annoying to me. Never had this problem again.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
In point 8 about power bomb management. If I remember correctly in your run you had 1 or 0 power bombs left which is absolutely fine at that section because you collect 5 power bombs at the top of the wall jump shaft.


Actually i had zero powerbombs, but i've collected 4 in the first room and as i was going to collect 10 more on the way to maridia, the others were unnecessary.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
I'm not sure about point 12 being quicker refering to the crocomire room exiting from a shinespark. You've got the crash animation to get out of in the other room when surely a fast space jumping would get you there quicker.


I don't know either, but i feel it's slighty faster because you are already in full speed by releasing the shinespark. I use to mess up with space jump too, so i think that once you know the right hight to release the shinespark (i use the background wall to know that) it's safer too.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
Your backtrack to get the missles in kraid area could have been done when you exited maridia as your traveling faster. You can do my trick of jumping just before you enter the elevator room, as samus touches the ceiling, have samus already aiming down, shoot a super and land for a mock ball and spring ball onto the platform. It's a good formula to make it work consistantly and honestly it looks harder than it actually is. Practice makes perfect.


I was lazy in that part. After Maridia i thought that going to Norfair or Kraid's area would be the same, so i decided to let the power bomb for later. After doing all Norfair i remembered your trick but redoing would be a pain in the ass. I'll watch your run again to see how the trick is done.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
In the morph ball area I was lucky to get a mock ball the way I did. You mentioned shooting whilst in the air and then land for the mock ball. That's not nesassary as you can shoot whilst crouched when the blocks are being destroyed by your power bomb and follow your beam and it breaks that little block.


I'll try that.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
The metroid killing can be done Hotarubi esque even with default setup because I used to do it. Granted your index finger has to reach for the select and then cancel and then shoot and then repeat, all the while manouvering samus accordingly.


It seems i need more trainning.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:
Great run though bro. I'm just off to practice some things I learnt !!


Thanks man, i'll practice too. I'll try to use a ghost script to see wich way is faster in the two kagos area and in Crocomire's room and i'll post here later.
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-04-20 01:50:44 am
professional chin scratcher
On PAL getting 00:46 on the escape is practically impossible unnassisted anyway so I should have stated that really. 00:45 though isn't too bad and should be looked at as the same as getting 00:46 on NTSC. Providing the smoke isn't a pain in the last room and I get a damage boost in the room before that. Also note that even the doors in ceres take longer to open in PAL than NTSC, so escape time will always be slower.

I'll try the crocomire shinespark.

I strongly recomend having select on the L button. But I understand if your not keen on the idea. I was the same until I changed it to that out of curiosity one day, plus I had been recomended it too. It will make many rooms, in particular the rooms in tourian a dam sight easier and many others too. Some rooms have to go through some minor strategy alterations for the lack of a stationary aim down button, but once you know what you must do in those rooms from then on, their not slower.

I forgot to mention I've also done a NTSC 100% run TAS just like your one. I did it last year so some rooms arnt as well optimised as yours but they are pretty much identical. I got a completion time of 46 minutes, but I rescued the animals at the end (costing me 20 seconds), because at that time I decided it should be included in a 100% run. I've since abandoned that idea. I think I might have got 45 if I hadn't. But seeing as your run is slightly better than mine and your not going to rescue the animals you should be on target for 45 !. Even if it ends up being 46 it would surely have to be a low 46.
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-20 09:46:08 am
Reeve: 2010-04-20 03:19:30 am
Reeve: 2010-04-20 03:17:34 am
Reeve: 2010-04-20 03:15:00 am
2010-04-20 03:13:38 am
I'll definetly change the item select button to another one, i'll think better what button i'll use for that.

I've been with this idea if it's worth investing on a Segmented or a Single Segment run.
Let's say that you segment the run in 5 parts:

1º Save: Ceres Station.
Because you can begin the run with a good time in Ceres, and if you save right when the Station is exploding you'll not loose time by loading the game.

2º Save: On the upper Brinstar after collecting the first Power Bomb.
The reason is that if you save there, you will be next to Phantoon and you can try a 2 rounds on him, saving some time and making the run cooler. Also Wrecked Ship is a pain in the ass as for the any% or the 100% run.

3º Save: In the large room with the sands/secret paths Before fighting botwoon.
The reason is you can try a one round fight with Botwoon, you can try a shinespark on the big room heading to fight Draygon and you can try a 2 rounds against Draygon getting the blue suit.

4º save: On the right of the elevator that leads to Lower Norfair.
Don't see many things that could save time there, but you can try a good fight against Gold Torizo and Ridley for example.

5º save: that's the hard part, which place to choose to save.
I think that the save still on norfair that has a large room with a lot of speed blocks on his right, that could be a good place to save.

The problem here is that you loose about 30 seconds just by loading this saves.
So, once i finish the run i'll measure the in-game time to see what would be the best time you can get doing a segmented 100% run.

By the way, seeing as the NTSC version of the game is better accepted, why don't you try it? Is that because you have the original game and it is PAL? if so, can't you find a NTSC version to Buy?
lxx4xNx6xxl
2010-04-20 04:44:01 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing your TAS Reeve. Also I feel the same way about the Kagoball in the beginning. I believe jumping over them is is faster for some reason. I also can't wait to the your 14% TAS Behemoth. I've been practicing a little lately and haven't been posting much. My brother is actually watching Reeve's TAS right now and he said there are some really nice and innovative stuff to watch. So now I really can't wait to watch it. Especially since I'm all about the 100% runs.

Also Behemoth the Charge Beam on Kraid does work on PAL as well.
Quietus
2010-04-20 05:16:03 am
Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!
Regarding the Ceres save, I am fairly certain that your time here makes no difference.  Other than bragging rights, having a 0:00 save doesn't change anything.  I recall Kejardon saying that the game same two to three times during the explosion / landing sequence, so even if you got 0:00 after Ceres, it'd save again at 0:01 before you leave the ship anyway.

As for the Charge Beam / Kraid thing, I can't see it making a difference to players of this level.  The Kraid quick kill is one of the easiest tricks to pull off regularly, so it'd be a minor convenience if anything.
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-20 09:36:44 am
2010-04-20 09:29:06 am
Quote from Quietus:
Regarding the Ceres save, I am fairly certain that your time here makes no difference.  Other than bragging rights, having a 0:00 save doesn't change anything.  I recall Kejardon saying that the game save two to three times during the explosion/landing sequence, so even if you got 0:00 after Ceres, it'd save again at 0:01 before you leave the ship anyway.


Everytime you load a save you have to wait for all animation of Samus, before you can start playing and that animation has something around 8 seconds that the game counts as if you were playing. Loading the Ceres Explosion will not have this animation, although thinking about it, Samus take some time to go out of the ship and we have to wait too to take control of her. Maybe in this particular case is the same thing.

Quote from Quietus:
As for the Charge Beam/Kraid thing, I can't see it making a difference to players of this level.  The Kraid quick kill is one of the easiest tricks to pull off regularly, so it'd be a minor convenience if anything.


I think you will agree that Hotarubi is "THE" top player at the momment, right? Actually, i learned this trick in his runs. After watching Hotarubi's runs i wondered why he aways shot a charged beam in kraid, so i payed attention and realized why. Although the timing to hit Kraid is easy to get, his claws moving are a pain in the ass, even if you're good. So why waste a run that was well till get in this boss if you can kill him in the safer way?
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:35:30 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:35:29 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:34:09 am
2010-04-20 09:32:30 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Well I watched some of Reeve's video so far mainly Maridia and lower Norfair. Honestly it was really sick and there are some things that I plan on practicing as well. I'm also glad you incorporated my Wrap Around Glitch across the Gauntlet in Crateria. Thank you!!! grin new

I really loved the way you 2 Rounded Draygon. That was very impressive!!! Its also something I plan on practicing now. There are many other impressive things you did as well but, I'll probably post after I watch the whole thing later. Also I just did the Wrap Around Glitch after Crocomire that you explained you should have done. I have to say its very useful because you don't have to worry about shooting the door open. You can just do one Short Charge with a Stutter Step and just do 2 Space Jumps through the door.
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-20 09:34:48 am
2010-04-20 09:33:07 am
Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing your TAS Reeve. Also I feel the same way about the Kagoball in the beginning. I believe jumping over them is faster for some reason. My brother is actually watching Reeve's TAS right now and he said there are some really nice and innovative stuff to watch. So now I really can't wait to watch it. Especially since I'm all about the 100% runs.


About the Kago, i'll use amaurea's ghost script to be sure of the faster way. About the run, you'll see i used your trick in the Gauntlet, thanks for that. Hope you enjoy it, although it is not finished, at least 95% of the run is complete.
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:40:48 am
2010-04-20 09:39:54 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
LOL. That's funny I just posted about that but, you Ninja'd me. Again thank you for making use of it!!! grin new

Anyway about the rest of the run I can't wait to see it. Its amazing from what I've seen so far.
Reeve
2010-04-20 09:40:44 am
Thank you for even watching!
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:50:49 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:48:28 am
2010-04-20 09:45:23 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Any time Revee, it was very entertaining and brings out some new possibilities as well!!! I didn't watch the whole thing yet but, I do plan on finishing it today though. My brother also told me that you used my jump up after the Wave Beam!!! grin new I don't know if you seen it on my You-Tube Channel or if you discovered it your self as well but, either way, very nice!!!

I know Behemoth can't wait to try some of you new optimizations as well!!!
Reeve
2010-04-20 09:50:46 am
Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:
My brother also told me that you used my jump up after the Wave Beam!!! grin new I don't know if you seen it on my You-Tube Channel or if you discovered it your self as well but, either way, very nice!!!


Actually i saw it on your youtube channel, hehehe... thanks for that too! And keep on the good work.
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 10:02:29 am
2010-04-20 09:57:28 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Your welcome!!! We all learn new things from one another anyway, I'm just glad I was able to help. That's just another thing that makes this game so great!!! I like the fact that your TAS is more towards what is actually possible then a normal TAS. Even though not everything can be done perfectly in a real run. It still shows what is possible and that's always good to know.
Reeve
Reeve
Edit history:
Reeve: 2010-04-20 10:39:28 am
2010-04-20 10:04:49 am
Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:
I like the fact that your TAS is more towards what is actually possible then a normal TAS. Even though not everything can be done perfectly in a real run. It still shows what is possible and that's always good to know.


Exactly! It was done with just savestates and realtime tricks. No Slowmotion was used in this run (except for the powerbomb delay that is almost a slowmotion and helped me to pull two really good mockball very close to the ground and an incredible land in a ledge in Wrecked Ship). The main objective is to find good and new tricks to the realtime speedrunners. The only diference here is that i used savestates to manipulate luck too, just because i didn't want to stop in the pipes. But In the entire run i think is enough stopping two times, the first on the bugs before Speedbooster and the second in the ship before entering the Gauntlet.
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-04-20 02:57:47 pm
professional chin scratcher
Yea it is a fantastic TAS. I've learned a few things, particularly in maridia and norfair that each save about a second each, and there were like 5 or 6 of those. Doesn't sound much but it all contributes to getting some really hardcore times !.

I really wanted to pull off the wrap around trick in crateria on my 100% console run, I really did lol. My shot looked good enough to oen the door as well. Not fair :(

Yup the kraid charged shot works, and I can see it benefiting PAL players a little more because kraids claws are more anoyingly positioned by the time you have to shoot your supers. So it's a good find. I will say though that I do screw the kraid quick kill up on many occassions, usually when I'm not concentrating properly and my timing is out by a few tenths of a second.

I'm speed running PAL simply because I'm british and it's what i've grown up with and I feel this version deserves the same amount of attention as NTSC. I actually like them both the same. Some things in the game I like more in PAL than NTSC and vice versa. I could find an NTSC version I suppose but I think others would want to challenge hotarubi besides myself. If I'm honest I think I could beat hotarubi both in any% and 100% but I would feel selfish for having all the records for all the versions. Still, it is possible to calculate equivelents between the two versions. My any% and 100% runs coming up would actually beat hotarubi's comparativly. Hopefully I'll manage it.

Anyway on SDA I posted two videos. One showing the giant metroid skip done in 4 jumps and another video showing my low% TAS run, which although is good, has three unforgivable mistakes in them. But I like to look at it philosophically, They are all mistakes that could happen in a console run and my TAS's were never about perfection and it's not like I could get the same time on console as that TAS really.

this video I'm ataching to this post is a trick which i've been meaning to do for some time on console. After watching reeve do this part similarly I got the urge to practice it. This video was done on emulator with slowdown to compensate for my dreadful USB game pad. But I was doing the same trick on console last night several times so maybe it's another future trick. Although it would only save a couple of seconds at best and likely many would find it way too hard to bother with. The emulator is snes9xw-improvement9 and load up the PAL rom
attachment:
neat trick.smv
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:05:42 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:05:02 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:04:37 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:01:45 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:01:27 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 06:59:48 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 04:39:43 pm
2010-04-20 04:36:10 pm
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Yea that's for sure. I definitely learned a hell of a lot from you Behemoth. I finally got a pretty consistent method for the trick after the Kung-Fu Hunters in lower Norfair. Its a very nasty optimization. I also like what Reeve did there as well but, it maybe much harder to pull off.

Yea its alright though. At least you attempted it and who knows maybe next time you go for a 100% Run you'll pull it off. LOL. The sad face made me laugh.

Yea it really makes things a lot easier. Even Hotarubi does it. I really wish I could quick kill like Hotarubi though. That is really hard with my button settings. Its really looks and its slightly faster. Hats off to him for that. You could probably do it as well because of your button settings though.

Yea and you cannot download the NTSC version of the game on the Wii anyway unless there is a way to do it. If there is please tell me because I want the PAL version for my collection. I feel the NTSC version is a lot different from the PAL version. I cannot say one is harder or one is easier then the other but, they are very different. If anyone can challenge him its you but, it won't be easy. I actually believe hes waiting for someone to challenge him for some reason. I'm actually glad you do the PAL version though as it adds more records to Speed Demos Archive because its classified under a different category. I honestly don't like comparing them with time equivalences because in my eyes they are different games.

Yea I will definitely watch those videos later today or tomorrow. Again I personally like when you guys TAS like that. It really shows what is humanly possible.

I'll also watch that as well. As for the slow down you use and all that stuff. Instead of using that why don't you buy a Wii to USB adapter. That site Play Asia I linked you too a while ago about the Super Famicom Classic Controller for the Wii has one. I have it and its very good to be able to practice on your emulator with it instead of wasting battery's on your Wii Remote. Also I still have that coupon that you can use for US $5.00 off any order US $50 or more.

Here's the link.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-6m-49-en-70-3nu3.html



BTW Reeve, I tried 2 Rounding Draygon like that. Wow!!! That is insanely hard and I'll probably stick to my Normal method of destroying him/her with Missiles and Super Missiles. What you did was incredibly entertaining though!!!
Quietus
2010-04-20 07:22:59 pm
Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!
There are two important factors in his two-round fight.  The first is getting a shot in before your first spark, for some extra damage; the second is getting him to spew gunk on his second pass.  If he does so, then the sparks are the easy part.

Also, I can't help but notice the irony of the fact that the designers gave you the option of electrocuting him to death, and now we 'spark' him to death... winky
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:47:06 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:45:58 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:45:21 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 07:39:36 pm
2010-04-20 07:39:25 pm
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Its not the shot followed by a Shine Spark nor is it the 2nd Shine Spark. It really the 3rd that's really hard. I personally don't like Sparking Draygon because of its inconsistencies of the damage it gives sometimes. I have a method for myself that makes him/her spit the gunk every time. Its just easier for me to do that. Although I have thought about Shine Sparking him/her on the 2nd Round because I always damage him/her badly with the Shine Spark when he/she spits the gunk.

Also a quick tip for those who didn't know getting a charge in that room isn't that hard. It only requires a Stutter Step and 2 Run Taps for your Short Charge to get Echos.


Anyway it is pretty ironic actually. LOL.
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-04-20 08:40:38 pm
professional chin scratcher
when I did my pre ridley spring ball crazy shit I did a short charge by three taps and in the next room i do three big long space jumps and after that one I shoot the door and samus is upright but moving in the air and boosting through the bats and then I land for a mock ball. Shooting this early ensures the door is fully open to pass through normally. With reeves method (having screw attack) he isn't boosting, but is traveling faster so he has to use the screw attack to kill the bats, which in turn means shooting the door later, hense he only just managed to get through the door as it's still opening. So it's an incredibly risky trick when done this way. Probably impossible on PAL.

I find it strange that so many people find both versions so different from each other. To me it ain't so much. They are different but it's not obvious to be able to point out just by looking at the game until you come across certain things, like draygon arriving sooner on NTSC or doors oponing slightly quicker on NTSC. I can apply the same knowledge for both games when i play them but just with a few alterations here and there.

Also I think in the future I'll post my old TAS's of any% runs done on NTSC and PAL just to show you what I mean about time comparisons. Of course it's not totally accurate to say that there is a 3 minute dead on time difference between the two versions for any% like i've said many times for example but it is certainly around that mark after you watch them back to back. You play both games. you see what you can do in both versions at the best and then you can determine an approximate time difference by the completion time. Even better if it showed seconds too but it's a shame it doesn't. The thing is, when I say equivelent, I don't mean that both versions should come under the same catagory, just to make that clear. I know it's a different game to NTSC. But what can be determined is the quality of runs done on both versions.

What's also strange is I think hotarubi has moved on to be honest lol. I don't know if he cares if he can be beaten or not. Or maybe he thinks he has the best times and therefore can't be beaten ?

Yea about the little video. I was in a rush to post it last minute. so I went ahead to do the video while I was still writing my last post lol. I will get a USB adapter at some point. So thanks for the link again
lxx4xNx6xxl
lxx4xNx6xxl
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:49:15 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:47:36 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:42:08 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:36:30 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-04-20 09:29:36 pm
2010-04-20 09:28:59 pm
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Yea I do the same as you with a 3 tap Short Charge and Space Jump 3 times as well. I hit the door late but, that is because it helps my timing. I do want to try what Reeve did though it looks very difficult. Yea that actually might be impossible on PAL. Unless you Charge Beam Wrap Around Glitch the door open which is possible BTW.

Its not like its a completely different game but, there are a lot of differences. All I know is PAL will always have a slower End Time then NTSC.

Don't get me wrong I know its definitely a slower time like I said before. The game play speaks for it self how good you are at the game. I'm just saying its different and I personally believe your time comparisons are pretty much correct for the most part. I would like to take back what I said at the end of that comment because it was unnecessary and it kind of came out slightly wrong. That is why I say I really can't compare the times because some things are not capable on the PAL version. That is why I see the game as different. You talk about beating Hotarubi's time in a comparison is what I don't like. The only way to really beat him is to beat him on NTSC is all I'm saying. Honestly you are equally as good as Hotarubi. The only aspect of his game I believe is better then yours is his Boss Fights.

He is a weird dude it seems. He keeps to him self a lot when it comes to Speed Running. There is nothing wrong with that anyway and you also have to take in to account the language barrier. I hope he does something new when it comes to this game. I think he needs motivation to play for a better time. I could be wrong and maybe he just moved on.

Nice!!! Trust me its a great investment for practice purposes. BTW my brother said the video was very sick. I actually can't wait to watch it.

Edit: I just watched the video you posted. All I have to say is just ridiculous. I really gotta try that. WOW!!!
Giganotabehemoth87
Giganotabehemoth87
Edit history:
Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-20 10:22:41 pm
Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-20 10:18:32 pm
2010-04-20 09:54:42 pm
professional chin scratcher
I think the time differences are attribitable to the the compensations you have to make on PAL. Things like doors oponing slower means you have to wait just a fraction longer at doors for example. And all the rest of the things of course that make the game slower. To me this is how you compare NTSC and PAL times on this game. Just because they can't allow the exact same game flow, does not mean they can't be compared to in one way or another. You work out the best possible methods for speed running both versions in all the rooms and then go from there. I can't see why this is so difficult to grasp. I know my reasons for coming to these calculations look haphazardly put together but I do trust me research on this. My any% TAS's I done way back last year are my reasons why I'm looking at it all this way.

I only say that ''i'd beat hotarubi'' because of all that i have mentioned. And when I have said that it is in no way disrespecting hotarubi or anyone for that matter. I totally understand what you are saying and it is indeed correct. But I just have different ways of looking at things I suppose. And maybe I use the wrong phrasing sometimes. (and he is better at me at the bosses, I know lol).

I wondered about doing a wrap around glitch in that pre ridley room actually but I couldn't find any decent method. Plus I allways lost flash just after i'd managed to shoot to glitch the door open while I was in the larva. shorter flash time on PAL unfortunately is the reason for this. But I think I'll stick to my original method that I did in my 100% console run as I can see reeves trick being next to impossible.

I'm gald you and your brother liked my video. I actually got that from cpadolf's 100% TAS in which he used it. I wish there was a way to kill that little critter in the floor a bit easier than using a power bomb which makes it slow. As it stands the trick is only a couple of seconds faster than ordinary method. Because of the damn power bomb laying that has to be done.

Nearly forgot. DID I READ THAT CORRECTLY. A way to make dragon fire gunk on his second round without fail ?. please explain !!!!!! LOL