New SM 100% World Record on SDA

2012-04-11 05:07:37 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

PAL isn't harder - it's just slower. The time difference comes from the games running at different frame rates. PAL runs at 50fps and NTSC runs at 60. Over the course of the game this equates to somewhere between three and five minutes, so Behemoth's 0:48 run on the PAL version equates to about a 0:44 in the NTSC version. Also, outside of a TAS, I believe the Torizo skip is impossible in an NTSC run.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-11 05:16:07 pm

I knew that much. Unfortunately, I can't use my computer to do my own testing with it since I have to start over again on the console. I guess the slower FPS is what allows you to skip the Torizo than. Like I said previously, does that include the Torizo skip? If I can't than his skip time should be added to the subtraction, which isn't a lot but it should be around 30 seconds right?

Quietus

2012-04-11 05:20:38 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

The time's are accounting for the entire run. Numerous test runs have been completed, with and without tool-assistance. To compete (quality-wise) with Behemoth's PAL 0:48, including the skip, you would need 44-45 on NTSC. I think that some of the NTSC test runs came out at 43:xx, but those assume perfect rooms in every section, so 44-45 is your target.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-11 05:25:40 pm

Mmk... I don't mean to be a pest, but in your opinion, what times do I need after each save comparitively?

Quietus

2012-04-11 05:30:24 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm not sure on that one. Reeve's probably the one to ask around here, as I recall him being the one doing the majority of the test runs, including the 43:xx (though I think that was single segment).

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-04-12 04:32:53 pm

2012-04-12 04:23:45 pm

Reeve done tow TAS's both PAL and NTSC using all the up to date tricks (save for just a couple of new ones he found recently) and feasibly fastest gameplay. NTSC game was actually 42:34, while PAL was 45:53. Both runs were played to their maximum level and Reeve concluded a time difference of over 3 minutes but never under 3 minutes.

The Torizo skip is just a quirk that PAL has but just so happens to be a pretty large skip. But still nowhere near enough to compete with NTSC runs. In fact NTSC has it's own share of unique tricks, namely the full pre-draygon shinespark cannot feasibly be done on PAL, and also the first lava rising room in Norfair cannot be balled across on the floor for it's entirety on PAL making the room a bit slower. Torizo skip on PAL is totally outweighed by NTSC's shorter waiting times and it's own unique tricks.

Providing you're using the same save stations as me you should look to match or beat (as you're on NTSC) 11 minutes at Red brinstar save, 14 at the wrecked ship save, 22 at Pre botwoon, and lastly 29 minutes at the Lower Norfair elevator. Like I say you can probably beat some of these times on NTSC at these saves if do the segments with the same consistency or better.

Just something to throw out here; My segments I like the least are segment 2 and 6, even though I got all the important tricks done there were perhaps a few too many little errors. So you might be able to squeeze 10 minutes at the red brinstar save iirc

Reeve done tow TAS's both PAL and NTSC using all the up to date tricks (save for just a couple of new ones he found recently) and feasibly fastest gameplay. NTSC game was actually 42:34, while PAL was 45:53. Both runs were played to their maximum level and Reeve concluded a time difference of over 3 minutes but never under 3 minutes.

The Torizo skip is just a quirk that PAL has but just so happens to be a pretty large skip. But still nowhere near enough to compete with NTSC runs. In fact NTSC has it's own share of unique tricks, namely the full pre-draygon shinespark cannot feasibly be done on PAL, and also the first lava rising room in Norfair cannot be balled across on the floor for it's entirety on PAL making the room a bit slower. Torizo skip on PAL is totally outweighed by NTSC's shorter waiting times and it's own unique tricks.

Providing you're using the same save stations as me you should look to match or beat (as you're on NTSC) 11 minutes at Red brinstar save, 14 at the wrecked ship save, 22 at Pre botwoon, and lastly 29 minutes at the Lower Norfair elevator. Like I say you can probably beat some of these times on NTSC at these saves if do the segments with the same consistency or better.

Just something to throw out here; My segments I like the least are segment 2 and 6, even though I got all the important tricks done there were perhaps a few too many little errors. So you might be able to squeeze 10 minutes at the red brinstar save iirc

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-12 04:37:45 pm

2012-04-12 04:36:57 pm

We'll see. If I were to not land on the ground at all during the initial shaft area, pre-room to bottom of shaft, how much time would I save comparitively?

Also, do you know how this is done?

Behemoth

2012-04-12 04:53:28 pm

This is the only found place where speed keeping is useful apart from one other place at the X ray long room which saves about half a second, but is harder to do than this one. It's done like this:
Run dash and jump, air ball, land a bounce ball first on safe ground and then into the electricity, unmorph at the same moment you take damage while also still holding forward and dash . It's very easy after a while.

As for the first thing: I'm not sure what you mean.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-12 04:58:45 pm

Let's say we just entered Crateria. Open door on left, run left until you fall into pit. From here, if I were to fall into the bottom door to the bottom of the shaft without landing, how much time would I save?

Behemoth

2012-04-12 05:05:09 pm

I don' think that's actually possible at all, not even in TAS, but assuming it was, it might save something in the region of 3 seconds perhaps ?

GuardianGarr

2012-04-12 05:08:06 pm

Well, I know it's possible without TAS. Still working on the timing. I can almost get into the shaft without landing, technically. I think the closest you can get is using a single quick wall jump and one of those hit down at the corner of a platform to fall faster. I'm gonna work on it tonight. I just need to shoot the door earlier and learn the timing on the landing to fall faster. At the very least, I'll only touch down once.

Behemoth

2012-04-12 05:14:57 pm

Sounds awfully hard for such minimal gains imo. I'm aware that TAS's do that waggling technique and indeed it's a useful trick to have for other areas in non assist, but not here.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-12 05:16:44 pm

It's not as hard as it sounds to do. Once you practice for a bit, it becomes very doable.

Quietus

2012-04-13 07:03:25 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I can't see it saving anywhere near three seconds, Behemoth. Not landing on the top platforms in the shaft, which are the only ones you should be touching with the current strategy anyway, wouldn't save much time at all. What is it? One small jump normally? I'd say half a second, at most.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-04-13 12:16:04 pm

2012-04-13 12:15:30 pm

I was just thinking on literal terms here, continuous fall with no stoppage vs a fall with some stoppages, they really do add seconds to your time I'm sure. We land on the very top ledge then the one 2/3 way down and then the one at the top of the big shaft, that's 3, each one would probably induce a second to your time, and that's being kind...

But in this particular case you could be right since there is no way to actually totally avoid the ledges without doing the quick fall waggling technique (hovering). Which is kinda still touching down imo

Quietus

2012-04-13 12:58:29 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I was thinking purely of the shaft, and not the area above, so it's bound to be more than the half second I mentioned above. I'd be curious to see how you manage to get to the bottom of the area above without touching anything. Since you mention that you're practicing on an emulator, can you not record an example?

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-13 02:44:00 pm

2012-04-13 02:41:54 pm

I'm not lol I said I really wish I could. I can't do shit right now. I just got a job and once I can afford it, I am getting a new computer and the internet back. Also, does SDA have anything against using a Wii for the game? I still haven't tried my other controller and I don't know if it has to do with how dirty my SNES is or if it's old ect, but I have a lot of issues getting my game to turn on. It almost always erases my saves. I guess perhaps I'd have to leave it running.

Also, I have come to the conclusion that I MIGHT be able to get away with 1 touch down if I really wanted to. I don't plan to do it during the run as having 2-3 touchdowns is a hell of a lot more accurate. I'll explain what I do instead of making a video and you can try.

At the top, right when you fall into the hole in the land, summersault left then go right until you reach the platform above the door, then move left just before passing it. Now you can either adjust yourself to fall straight down next to the platform in front of the door or the easiest way to do this would be to bump into said platform to straighten out. At the next platform, do a quick tap wall jump then move left through the openning. Immediately move right and shoot down, while going right, at the door.

At this point, I haven't managed to not touch the door. The next spot, you can only manage to touch the edge of the platform. The fastest way off here would be to fall next to the platform holding left until you can pass the next purple platform, then hold right and now you will be falling at the wall. I hope that is easy enough to understand.

I'm not lol I said I really wish I could. I can't do shit right now. I just got a job and once I can afford it, I am getting a new computer and the internet back. Also, does SDA have anything against using a Wii for the game? I still haven't tried my other controller and I don't know if it has to do with how dirty my SNES is or if it's old ect, but I have a lot of issues getting my game to turn on. It almost always erases my saves. I guess perhaps I'd have to leave it running.

Also, I have come to the conclusion that I MIGHT be able to get away with 1 touch down if I really wanted to. I don't plan to do it during the run as having 2-3 touchdowns is a hell of a lot more accurate. I'll explain what I do instead of making a video and you can try.

At the top, right when you fall into the hole in the land, summersault left then go right until you reach the platform above the door, then move left just before passing it. Now you can either adjust yourself to fall straight down next to the platform in front of the door or the easiest way to do this would be to bump into said platform to straighten out. At the next platform, do a quick tap wall jump then move left through the openning. Immediately move right and shoot down, while going right, at the door.

At this point, I haven't managed to not touch the door. The next spot, you can only manage to touch the edge of the platform. The fastest way off here would be to fall next to the platform holding left until you can pass the next purple platform, then hold right and now you will be falling at the wall. I hope that is easy enough to understand.

Quietus

2012-04-13 05:29:32 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from GuardianGarr:

Also, does SDA have anything against using a Wii for the game?

Nope. I believe Behemoth's runs were done on the Wii.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-14 04:07:40 pm

Gurd gurd. Hopefully I won't need it, seeing as I don't have a Wii.

Tonski

2012-05-30 07:35:29 am

Just watching this, the short charge skills and the level of optimization for a human run is in my opinion pure madness. This is likely one of the best speedruns I've ever seen, it leaves me in front of my computer screen just talking to myself "Oh dude that's sick, how'd he do it so precise, madness...". This is truly an amazing run.

ICheatAtGolf

2012-07-19 07:09:54 am

Great run, Behemoth, amazing consistency. It really shows that you've practiced nearly every room in the game extensively.

Since we're talking about NTSC and PAL differences, I'm pretty sure the mockball under the gate after the first reserve tank is MUCH easier on PAL.

behemoth

2012-07-19 09:40:50 am

Thanks man !.

And yes I can confirm this, it seems the gates come down a bit quicker meaning you need to do the flattest mock ball you can after passing the green ledge. Nonetheless after practicing it myself just now it's really not too difficult.