New SM 100% World Record on SDA

Edit history:

Reeve: 2011-05-17 12:29:54 am

2011-05-17 12:27:25 am

Behemoth's Super Metroid 100% Speedrun (PAL) in 48min was accepted in SDA. Amazing run for sure!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Giganotabehemoth87

For those who didn't watched yet, enjoy! And for those who already watched, cause i know you will watch again!

Thread title:

Quietus

2011-05-17 05:38:09 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It's not really ON SDA now, is it? Razz

I will have to watch it again once it's up in HD.

Reeve

2011-05-17 06:39:24 am

It was accepted, but it will need some time to be avaliable in HD. I'm salivating too! hehehe...

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-05-17 09:58:41 am

2011-05-17 09:58:00 am

Yay !

Turtle

2011-05-17 12:22:34 pm

I like turtles.

Great run.

Red Scarlet

2011-09-10 01:01:20 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Totally stupid to remove my run when this is on the PAL version. Metroid Prime has always had seperate categories. Very unprofessional/immature to just bump it off for no reason for it to be bumped off in the first place.

Congrats, Behemoth.

Holgerius

2011-09-10 01:39:38 am

Ya, that doesn't really make sense at all. :( I mean, they have both a PAL and NTSC version of the any%... They should put yours back up.

Though I must say, it's pretty weird that such an outdated time as yours (absolutely no offence meant, your run was legendary ^__^) was still up there. :P

behemoth

2011-09-10 03:24:43 am

Wow thanks Red Scarlet and great to see you here. I must say I was one of the few people who initially opposed taking down your run for this very reason as it didn't seem to me to make any logical sense. But in any event, there are a couple of runners here that will go for the NTSC record nonetheless.

Thanks you also Holgerius. Red Scarlets run is indeed legendary, as it's still a solid time even after all these years, that many still struggle to match or beat

Quietus

2011-09-10 01:51:16 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I can only imagine that the theory behind it is that the NTSC time will always be quicker, which is why they allow the PAL time as well, as any player playing on PAL, even if world class, will never achieve the NTSC time. Therefore the PAL time being quicker anyway makes the NTSC time obsolete too.

However, on a personal note, I too don't really see the point in taking it down.

072

2011-09-10 01:53:47 pm

coral to complement blue

Kind of sucks for Behemoth if people think the improvement came from version differences.

Quietus

2011-09-10 01:57:21 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Not really, because the version differences work in his favour. With him running PAL, which is slower, him beating the NTSC time by such a margin makes his run even MORE impressive.

072

2011-09-10 01:59:57 pm

coral to complement blue

Yes, I mean to people who don't know better.

Cpadolf

Edit history:

Cpadolf: 2011-09-10 02:00:36 pm

2011-09-10 02:00:17 pm

Almost happy

I think 072's point was that there's probably not a whole lot of people who know that. EDIT: Ninjaed.

Also, Behemoth, it's downright stupid how good you are. Seriously.

Quietus

2011-09-10 02:02:17 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

But you could argue that if they don't know the differences, then wouldn't they just assume they're the same, and that he beat the time anyway? Think

072

2011-09-10 02:03:23 pm

coral to complement blue

Then why would the slower run still be there? >_>

Quietus

2011-09-10 02:07:03 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from Cpadolf:

Also, Behemoth, it's downright stupid how good you are. Seriously.

And this. When I watch some parts I just think 'how the fuck?' Shocked

072: It wouldn't be there. The discussion was about the unnecessary removal of Scarlet's run. If people know the speed differences, then they'd know what an impressive feat it is, and if they don't know, then they'd probably assume they're the same, so they would still see the time had been beaten.

This means that I can understand the logic behind removing Scarlet's run, but it does also seem a little redundant, as if they're both on the same page, people would immediately see the better time anyway.

072

2011-09-10 02:07:30 pm

coral to complement blue

Only speaking for myself here, but if I see two categories with runs 7 minutes apart, I am going to assume that the faster one has some kind of advantage.

Quietus

2011-09-10 02:09:32 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yes, that's normally the case, and it's usually just NTSC / PAL differences. It's just unfortunate that a new NTSC time was never submitted, as numerous people have beaten the time, and it would have eradicated any confusion / awkwardness.

nate

2011-09-10 02:46:57 pm

i don't really agree with cross-category obsoletion. however sda is following precedent here, e.g. zoidi's 1:17 prime run on pal which knocked off kip's 1:23 in 2004. i guess for speedrunning purposes, prime and super are similar in that pal runs will always come in with higher times.

Red Scarlet

Edit history:

Red Scarlet: 2011-09-10 06:44:45 pm

2011-09-10 06:43:34 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

By removing it, some folks would not even know it was on the PAL version (and on the Wii? someone said) and that there are any differences at all between the PAL and NTSC times. It's like trying to hide something information-wise; by all means put up a faster NTSC run when there is one. Just having one run without the specifications on what it was played on/the version and what's different kind of seems like misinformational. SDA hates my runs anyway (see FF12/FF12i).

I'll check out your run sometime, Behemoth. I haven't really kept up with all the new tricks after I did my run, so I'm sure there is a ton of nifty new stuff.

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2011-09-11 05:17:36 am

2011-09-11 05:15:35 am

What are the differences between PAL and NTSC anyway? I know that the PAL version technically runs slower, but that's it. If that's all then I agree with taking the NTSC run down. Especially considering PAL has the disadvantage... it's pretty similar to an SS run obsoleting a segmented one.

Behemoth

2011-09-11 05:38:33 am

Here's a list of some of the differences

- Slower opening and closing doors
- Samus jumps very slightly less distance
- Flash timer for shinespark doesn't last as long making the pre draygon shinespark practically impossible on PAL
- Botwoon arrives earlier in battle but Draygon arrives later in battle. While Botwoon moves around quicker in his room on PAL making the wave power bomb combo 1 rounder somewhat more difficult.
- Some rooms like the first lava rising room in Norfair don't allow you to roll on the ground for as long.
- Some rooms have minor enemies placed differently to NTSC which means some room strategies have to be altered.
- Samus moves slower horizontally while falling. The same applies to the her in ball form. This means many room strategies to avoid ledges while falling are differently optimized to NTSC and are sometimes slower as a result

There's quite a few more things but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

As for playing on the Wii. It's exactly the same game as the snes version just with a better, brighter picture. The classic controller is very similar to the snes pad and I'm able to play both Wii and snes versions equally well. Although I haven't played the snes version in a long time, it wouldn't take a long time for me to get adjusted to the controller again.

Here's a list of some of the differences

- Slower opening and closing doors
- Samus jumps very slightly less distance
- Flash timer for shinespark doesn't last as long making the pre draygon shinespark practically impossible on PAL
- Botwoon arrives earlier in battle but Draygon arrives later in battle. While Botwoon moves around quicker in his room on PAL making the wave power bomb combo 1 rounder somewhat more difficult.
- Some rooms like the first lava rising room in Norfair don't allow you to roll on the ground for as long.
- Some rooms have minor enemies placed differently to NTSC which means some room strategies have to be altered.
- Samus moves slower horizontally while falling. The same applies to the her in ball form. This means many room strategies to avoid ledges while falling are differently optimized to NTSC and are sometimes slower as a result

There's quite a few more things but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

As for playing on the Wii. It's exactly the same game as the snes version just with a better, brighter picture. The classic controller is very similar to the snes pad and I'm able to play both Wii and snes versions equally well. Although I haven't played the snes version in a long time, it wouldn't take a long time for me to get adjusted to the controller again.

Cpadolf

2011-09-11 05:48:35 am

Almost happy

The big reason that PAL runs are slower though (since all of the mentioned ones don't actually add up to a whole lot of lost time), is that close to all waiting sequences take longer time. And by waiting sequences I mean stuff like bosses appearing, and dying, or the Baby Metroid sequence. It was a while since I tested this, but IIRC most of these take the same amount of frames in both versions, which means they take 20% longer on PAL.

Reeve

2011-09-11 08:16:15 am

Quote from Red Scarlet:

I'll check out your run sometime, Behemoth. I haven't really kept up with all the new tricks after I did my run, so I'm sure there is a ton of nifty new stuff.

You'll not regret! Mainly if you didn't watch Hotarubi's 50min run, but even if you did, you'll be surprised cause it's a new level of speedrunning.

Regarding the PAL beeing slower, there's the beam problems too, they take more time to be charged and the cool down is longer too, so a boss like Ridley or Mother Brain takes longer to be killed.

Cpadolf

2011-09-11 10:30:52 am

Almost happy

True. Basically, close to everything that is run on a frame timer is 20% slower on PAL because the frame value is unchanged. And yet they still managed to not only change it for the shinespark, but change it to a completely nonsensical value (180 for NTSC = 3 seconds, 143 for PAL = 2.86 seconds).