Japanese reactions to Other M

2010-10-17 06:14:21 pm

My guess for why there aren't any sequence breaks is that Sakamoto doesn't want first time players to miss any parts of the experience of playing the game. I mean, if you worked hard on creating a boss, you would feel sorta dissapointed if half the players never fought that boss due to a sequence break. Thus you have three options when creating a game:

A. Total open world exploration where there is no order and you can do whatever you want.
B. No sequence breaks at all, where there is a set sequence where you must do things.
C. Make sequence breaks hard or well hidden and place them where first time players wouldn't think of.
D. Totally fail at B and have lots of sequence breaks. In other words, Metroid Prime.

And I'm pretty sure Sakamoto is an artist lost in his vision at this point.

Baron Dante

2010-10-17 06:16:39 pm

Hm, how about A and C?

While free explortion (Making it a must to fight all bosses), you'd have SBs to amke it even more free.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-10-17 06:30:55 pm

Well, you could just make certain bosses required to beat the game. In SM, there were tons of sequence breaks, but the 5 core bosses were still required. Although, I think SM is the closest you can get to A while still making it feel like you have a purpose in the game. I think B should never be used, and there should always be SB's, even if they're hard to find. C is probably most like MZM in that there is an order, but there are still sequence breaks put in.

Chozoid

2010-10-17 06:43:21 pm

I dont think the negative sales were do to the lack of SBs. Thats just what people at m2k2 think. The only reasonable explantaions I can come up with are:
A) The Internet spreading negtivity
B) People dont want emotional games
C) People dont want a 3d game with 2d controls.
or, God help us if this is true,
D) People just dont like/want Metroid (anymore).

TheMG2

2010-10-17 07:45:09 pm

Quote from Chozoid:

I dont think the negative sales were do to the lack of SBs. Thats just what people at m2k2 think. The only reasonable explantaions I can come up with are:
A) The Internet spreading negtivity
B) People dont want emotional games
C) People dont want a 3d game with 2d controls.
or, God help us if this is true,
D) People just dont like/want Metroid (anymore).

Correct. Though you also forgot: E. There aren't many people that like/want Metroid outside of Metroid Prime.

Turtle

2010-10-17 08:27:55 pm

I like turtles.

Man, so many people played the Prime series (especially Corruption) as their first Metroid game it's not even funny. I've seen people post things on YouTube like "lulz metriod is such a halo ripfof lulz".

arkarian

2010-10-17 08:34:51 pm

red chamber dream

halo kills wayyy more aliens than that metroid guy does

TheMG2

2010-10-17 08:54:37 pm

Metroid Prime was my first Metroid game, but I was never into Halo or other first person shooters. My second Metroid game (which I got alongside Prime 2) was Metroid Zero Mission, so I never became totally Prime-centric. I actually believe that they have done enough with Prime and should go in other directions.

I try to correct people about Metroid being a Halo rip-off.

Except when it comes to Hunters.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

Edit history:

Metroid_Zelda Fan: 2010-10-17 09:01:15 pm

2010-10-17 08:56:35 pm

Most of the people I know think that the Wii is a kid's console. Without getting into that argument, maybe most people that like action games don't own a Wii. Also, I don't know many people that know the Metroid series, so I bet many people have only played Prime. Really, only long-time fans of the series know the true exploration based metroid games. The new games are all pretty linear to the average player.

Baron Dante

2010-10-17 09:28:00 pm

I never was a 1st person type of person (Or any person shooter), and thus I never really got to Primes. For me, MOM was much more "familiar", to say. MOM is not a bad game, expect for it's obvious flaws, it just is not a fuckin' Metroid game.

That said, because I never felt the 3d Metroids were right (Well, they are 1stPshooters or MOMs), I'd like to return to actual 2D Metroids. I actually see that Sakamoto possibly wanted to have a 2-d game, but thought that the time of 2-ds are over, 3-d is the thing that now is in everywhere.

...To that, one should just link to Youtube for Lex Luthor "Wrong" scene.

UchihaSasuke

2010-10-18 03:38:33 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

we still get fully 2D controlled games like NSMB and Wario Land so there's a place for that. i would bet a 2D Metroid with either 3D or 2D graphics would still muster up some good sales.

the biggest turnoff was the story/cutscene/giving samus a personality affair that Other M set to do. lack of SBs reduced sales but those lost sales are much less than what they lost by making a cutscene-driven game that was pretty linear. mp3 was devoid of SBs for a long time but it still sold good since it had other things going on in its favor like the pointer controls and more steamlined gameplay (the game seemed to grab people who preferred the FPS angle instead of the Metroid angle).

Fusion sold actually slightly better than Super so there's actually a good deal of people who experienced 2D Metroid in the last few years but not making a sequel to it would be what reduced most of the awareness since i bet most assumed Metroid was done in 2D and it was going to be a 3D series only. they should have done like Konami and keep releasing sequels to the 2D games to remind gamers that the old style still matters. MZM didn't sell as good because remakes get ignored by a lot of people even if the remake is completely radical but i would bet that if they made Metroid 5 after that and made it one of the early DS games, it would have sold on par with Fusion. instead we got Hunters which sucked for the most part and Pinball which isn't a Metroid game at all. biggest missed opportunity outside not having an N64 installment.

we still get fully 2D controlled games like NSMB and Wario Land so there's a place for that. i would bet a 2D Metroid with either 3D or 2D graphics would still muster up some good sales.

the biggest turnoff was the story/cutscene/giving samus a personality affair that Other M set to do. lack of SBs reduced sales but those lost sales are much less than what they lost by making a cutscene-driven game that was pretty linear. mp3 was devoid of SBs for a long time but it still sold good since it had other things going on in its favor like the pointer controls and more steamlined gameplay (the game seemed to grab people who preferred the FPS angle instead of the Metroid angle).

Fusion sold actually slightly better than Super so there's actually a good deal of people who experienced 2D Metroid in the last few years but not making a sequel to it would be what reduced most of the awareness since i bet most assumed Metroid was done in 2D and it was going to be a 3D series only. they should have done like Konami and keep releasing sequels to the 2D games to remind gamers that the old style still matters. MZM didn't sell as good because remakes get ignored by a lot of people even if the remake is completely radical but i would bet that if they made Metroid 5 after that and made it one of the early DS games, it would have sold on par with Fusion. instead we got Hunters which sucked for the most part and Pinball which isn't a Metroid game at all. biggest missed opportunity outside not having an N64 installment.

Baron Dante

2010-10-18 12:44:12 pm

True, I just see what Sakamoto most likely sees.

When 3d games first came, all and everything was basically made into one (And many good series were raped by it), and now we are returning to 2ds.

I hope Sakamoto sees that and gives us a "real" Metroid again.

Hitaka

2010-10-18 01:58:00 pm

Phoenix

I hope Sakamoto gets fired from Metroid after the Other M debacle.

Baron Dante

2010-10-18 02:09:44 pm

Not going to happen. :(

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-10-18 09:25:29 pm

2010-10-18 09:25:06 pm

You will rise to the level of your incompetence.

KingBroly

2010-10-18 10:24:23 pm

Honestly, through all the BS cutscenes and bad VA, and "bad portrayal" of Samus, he may have done some good, clever character development with her AFTER ALL. However, it'll take one game to prove my theory. But we may not get that for a while -__-'

Long, dirty version: Samus suppressed her emotions after Ian's death, Baby's Metroid's death brought those emotions back to her uncontrollably, Adam's death allowed her to control her emotions again.

Turtle

2010-10-18 10:49:41 pm

I like turtles.

So her only settings are "off" and "high," and a death of a loved one is the trigger that toggles the switch? That sounds clever, but I'm not sure I'd call it "good."

KingBroly

Edit history:

KingBroly: 2010-10-19 05:57:28 am

KingBroly: 2010-10-19 05:54:44 am

KingBroly: 2010-10-19 05:54:00 am

2010-10-19 05:52:46 am

Not really off, but more like low. But it really depends on how many Metroid games they can put after Fusion. The more they do, the more sense it makes...I guess. Unless they make her mood swings really uncontrollable in those too.

I'm not saying he explains it all that well, either.

tomatobob

2010-10-19 05:54:34 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Menopause is a bitch.

KingBroly

2010-10-19 07:51:19 am

I guess so.

But like I said, just a theory. Maybe not a good one, but a theory. We'll never know until someone asks him what the heck he was trying to get across. If it is like I say, then it makes it even closer to Fusion than ever (and it was already pretty close).

Fusion was about her regaining her physical composure. My guess is Other M is about regaining her emotional composure.

TheMG2

2010-10-19 04:18:16 pm

...My theory was that the Baby Metroid gave her more than just the hyper beam, it gave her a whiny personality.

Actually, the only moments where Samus DIRECTLY showed her emotions was the Ridley scene, the Sector Zero scene, and grabbing Adam's helmet scene. The rest of the time, it was just her thoughts.

KingBroly

Edit history:

KingBroly: 2010-10-19 04:46:24 pm

KingBroly: 2010-10-19 04:44:31 pm

2010-10-19 04:43:42 pm

To me, there's only once where she comes off as whiny and that's the Sector Zero scene, which is played out exactly like the flashback. If you can think of another scene, by all means let me know. After that scene though, she seems more like we thought she was. Her voice also seems to have some sort of snap to it in the last monologues (that's the best way to describe it).

Basically, the Baby Metroid's death re-awoke all of her suppressed emotions, Adam's death allowed her to control them. I point to the cutscene with MB at the end of the game as a comparison.

The Ridley scene through my theory (I.E. she had lost control of her emotions) would explain why she freaks the heck out for the first time against him.

ajbolt89

2010-10-19 05:27:24 pm

lol no way

I guess this line of reasoning is along the same vein as those following the manga though right? I mean, what's not in the game isn't and won't ever matter so why would you discuss it?
Maybe though I'm just saying that because even though I know you know it's a stretch, I still want to say "come on, that's totally a stretch".

KingBroly

2010-10-19 06:06:21 pm

Oh, I definitely think it's a stretch. However, the scene with MB wasn't just put in there for proper discussion of androids gaining emotions. Maybe Sakamoto thought people thought Samus was a robot, and seemed very keen on the idea of her being human. But again, he's not really keen on English, so maybe he didn't know how the rest of the world saw her.

I remember when Other M was first announced, people thought MB was a Samus clone, and Sakamoto was like 'no, not a clone.' It's funny to think that yeah, they might be.

Turtle

2010-10-19 07:00:06 pm

I like turtles.

So no matter which way you slice it, this game is about a robot gaining emotions...?