Glitch Topic

2011-11-08 05:48:53 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

I've never actually done that glitch before :o All that stuff seems reasonable though, the crystal flash probably changes the beam palettes to white, and being stuck in the crouching pose is something that sometimes happens when you do the stand-up glitch with Mother Brain

F-Bomb

2011-11-09 07:50:51 am

The Bomb that says it all .!..

But the really weird thing was that I was stuck in the standing position. I dont think I said that earlier did I?

So yeah, I was stuck in the standing position, with white beams no matter the combination, and I couldn't move or morph until I used x-ray scope. After failing the Metroid skip with energy refill method.

P.JMan

2011-11-09 09:00:35 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

That kinda glitch is more Kej's area of interest, though he doesn't seem to be around anymore :(

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-03 02:41:32 pm

2012-04-03 02:39:39 pm

I know that the post is kind of old and all, but I am referring to the ST glitch and getting into Tourian. I don't know exactly how much everyone knows about it, but after the Metroid IIRC, when you try to leave the room, the game freezes. So the only way I can think of around the room is using the X-Ray Climb, but I can't test that myself. Not only because I don't know how to TAS but my computer is shot so I can't try if I wanted to.

For anyone willing to try, the way to get the glitch to work is to enter the statue room and open the door. This is how I do it anyway, while the door is open, make sure there is no space between you and the hit detection of the doorway while the ST gun is on. Jump and shoot the door while also leaving at the same time. The screen will turn white as you are leaving. Re-enter and the floor is gone. That's how I remember it anyway. After that, the game is uncomplete-able because of said glitch. Not to mention, again IIRC, if you go to the main room, the ending sequence is there without a timer.

I know that the post is kind of old and all, but I am referring to the ST glitch and getting into Tourian. I don't know exactly how much everyone knows about it, but after the Metroid IIRC, when you try to leave the room, the game freezes. So the only way I can think of around the room is using the X-Ray Climb, but I can't test that myself. Not only because I don't know how to TAS but my computer is shot so I can't try if I wanted to.

For anyone willing to try, the way to get the glitch to work is to enter the statue room and open the door. This is how I do it anyway, while the door is open, make sure there is no space between you and the hit detection of the doorway while the ST gun is on. Jump and shoot the door while also leaving at the same time. The screen will turn white as you are leaving. Re-enter and the floor is gone. That's how I remember it anyway. After that, the game is uncomplete-able because of said glitch. Not to mention, again IIRC, if you go to the main room, the ending sequence is there without a timer.

Guardian Garr

2012-06-12 11:48:07 pm

As far as the ST gun goes, I don't know how I got it to work previously but I know the method I explained is how I did it. I think perhaps you need to kill a few of the bosses beforehand. I know it doesn't work with none or 1 boss defeated. It might require a certain boss such as phantoon. I know that I didn't beat all the bosses when I tested this the first time. It may have also been the fact that I used the zsnes emulator. I'll check and see if I have anything remotely in that area on my zsnes still, which I should hopefully have as I have tons of SS on there.

Here are a few useful glitches I found, one not so useful and probably found already:

Not so useful: Shine Spark at the ceiling above the statues head pre-gravity and get stuck in the wall. You can also run and jump into this spot as well. X-ray climb to the room above. I guess only a little useful if you use the grappling hook.

If you run and jump into a door at moderate to high speed, on the second to last frame of entering the door, push away from the door. On the last frame, push towards the door. You will spring back into the door or past it depending on height. You can get stuck this way much easier than if you mockball or do a 1-3 frame summersault. You may also push forwards after entering, but the success rate of getting stuck is a lot lower.

Before MB, the zebitite things, you know where you freeze the rinka and jump through it to MB. If you shine spark below the small platform in front of it at an angle, you will get stuck inside the pole. You have to x-ray climb once and look away from the left area where you plan to go. You can bounce back or just get hit to go past. This could be useful in a real time run.

As far as the ST gun goes, I don't know how I got it to work previously but I know the method I explained is how I did it. I think perhaps you need to kill a few of the bosses beforehand. I know it doesn't work with none or 1 boss defeated. It might require a certain boss such as phantoon. I know that I didn't beat all the bosses when I tested this the first time. It may have also been the fact that I used the zsnes emulator. I'll check and see if I have anything remotely in that area on my zsnes still, which I should hopefully have as I have tons of SS on there.

Here are a few useful glitches I found, one not so useful and probably found already:

Not so useful: Shine Spark at the ceiling above the statues head pre-gravity and get stuck in the wall. You can also run and jump into this spot as well. X-ray climb to the room above. I guess only a little useful if you use the grappling hook.

If you run and jump into a door at moderate to high speed, on the second to last frame of entering the door, push away from the door. On the last frame, push towards the door. You will spring back into the door or past it depending on height. You can get stuck this way much easier than if you mockball or do a 1-3 frame summersault. You may also push forwards after entering, but the success rate of getting stuck is a lot lower.

Before MB, the zebitite things, you know where you freeze the rinka and jump through it to MB. If you shine spark below the small platform in front of it at an angle, you will get stuck inside the pole. You have to x-ray climb once and look away from the left area where you plan to go. You can bounce back or just get hit to go past. This could be useful in a real time run.

P.JMan

2012-06-13 05:31:07 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Those last two are well known

Guardian Garr

2012-06-13 07:26:34 am

I figured as much. I just never see it in action is all, so I thought maybe they weren't.

Quietus

2012-06-13 07:50:32 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

The Zebetite one in particular has been done / seen before, but it's slower than the usual freezing method, and also requires performing a difficult charge from the room before, which means wasting more time running to the right then back to the left, and through the door. Since usually we're dealing with speedrunning, the quicker, freezing, method is always used.

P.JMan

2012-06-23 05:55:25 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Laying a power bomb in Kraid's room above the door will leave a drop where Kraid's finger nail spawns

Hazel

2012-11-20 04:31:06 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

I'm sure someone has had this happen before but, its the first time I've ever seen it happen.

Quietus

2012-11-20 08:16:55 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yeah, it's been documented before. If there were a surefire way to trigger it, it'd be great for any runs.

F-Bomb

2013-12-03 08:49:44 am

The Bomb that says it all .!..

Been a long time since I been in guys, but I just shot a Super Missile through the Gate Coming out of Crocomires area into the Main Norfair shaft, and opened the blue door behind it. It Can be seen at the very end of this smv. I'm sorry you'll have to skip right to the end of the movie as I have no idea how to edit them. Any one seen this before? Snes9x 1.43 used to record this.

attachment:

Super Missile Through door.smv

Quietus

2013-12-03 09:09:14 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I know that if they have enough speed, they can go through the gates. I believe it was done in one of the recent TASes, in the room below Spore Spawn's supers (with the power bomb door).

Snytbaggen

2014-07-02 04:32:56 am

I've seen something happen a few times when fighting Draygon, I'm almost sure it's known but I haven't found anything when I've searched. What happens is that I time my shinespark wrong and hit the wall, and get grabbed by Draygon during the short "wall hit" animation where images of Samus flies off towards the sides of the wall. Getting grabbed somehow interrupts the animation so the afterimages are still there and follows Samus's sprite, but are stationary. They vanish once you do another shinespark. This is on console and I know it's been happening on PAL and I'm not sure if I've seen it happen after I bought an NTSC cart, but it might just be because I'm better at timing my jumps now.

P.JMan

2014-07-03 07:44:14 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Yeah that one's known; IIRC, it's common to get that from the elite Pirates too

MYT

2014-07-25 11:41:07 am

Hi guys,

I have decided to start running Super Metroid on Wii U, and I seem to be having some problems pulling off some of the tricks. For example, I can't seem to do the mochtroid clip(or the similar clip with the sqiggly thing). Do the glitches work on VC copies of the game, or do I need the original SNES copy? I am also playing the PAL version if it makes any difference!

Thanks

Quietus

2014-07-27 03:03:25 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm fairly certain that those basic glitches are possible in all versions.

Aran;Jaeger

Edit history:

Aran;Jaeger: 2016-01-17 04:30:57 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 09:57:21 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 07:33:00 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 07:29:28 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 07:25:15 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 07:09:07 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 07:02:05 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 06:58:31 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 06:57:42 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2014-08-29 06:57:16 pm

2014-08-29 12:36:26 pm

Actually, if someone wants to see or know about (I would say the most but by far not all of the) new found/latest glitches and such, then either go here
(https://www.youtube.com/user/eternisedDragon7/videos) or there
(http://pastebin.com/xs2zHG01).
I do not want to be brash though, just saying.

Edit: Oh my god! Why has no one ever analysed this video by ingx32 ?! [It is so old and so many people have seen it already, it seems]

I am going to do some further research regarding all kinds of parameters about that special mode that Samus is in, when staying in that "reserves-kick-in mode" (by using X-Ray until the transfer ends), where the screen stays dark, because I already found out something very interesting about this mode:
In the video, one can see that, by letting the reserves kick in again after being already in this state, the normal state is obtained again AND (the thing that is much more interesting) Samus automatically gets into a standing position! Getting forced into a standing position (while for example jumping and having momentum) might not seem to be interesting, but that is wrong. The reason for this is (and I tested that already successfully) that even in ball form, Samus will be forced into a standing position regardless where Samus is at that moment, and that way, one can even get through/into the ceiling/solid blocks and maintain the momentum while the position where Samus´ (vertical) collision-detection is switches instantly from the top position of the ball to the position of Samus´ head in the frame when the reserves kick in. And that way, one can for example do a Springball-jump while being in this "reserve-mode", getting into that forced standing position shortly before the ball touches a (for example 1-block thick) ceiling in order to push Samus through the ceiling, and continue the jump (with the remaining momentum) after passing through the ceiling!
For example, if it was possible to obtain this reserve-mode within GT´s room, it would be humanly possible to collect the missile pack there in a NBMB playthrough (without Out of Bounds)!
And I am sure that there would in principle be other applications, too.
[Maybe one can even obtain Blue-Suit that way, since Samus´ state changes instantly into a standing position, just like during other Blue-Suit methods.]
So let´s see how this mode can be activated, what effects it has, and the stability-properties of it.
2.Edit: Holy shit! (please forgive me my cursing)
It actually IS possible to activate Blue-Suit that way (by letting the reserves kick in while being in that reserve-mode and while activating a delayed shinespark)!
[Lol, that is already the 4th Blue-Suit method that I found]
This is what I mean:

3.Edit: Actually, I think one could use this reserve-mode somehow to get past that little platform in pre-Botwoon-room, but I have no clue if it could lead to new ("non-major-glitched") low% options with less than 14%.
Edit: Yes it did, for NTSC.

Actually, if someone wants to see or know about (I would say the most but by far not all of the) new found/latest glitches and such, then either go here
(https://www.youtube.com/user/eternisedDragon7/videos) or there 
(http://pastebin.com/xs2zHG01). 
I do not want to be brash though, just saying.

Edit: Oh my god! Why has no one ever analysed this video by ingx32 ?! [It is so old and so many people have seen it already, it seems]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OitD-kdqWy4

I am going to do some further research regarding all kinds of parameters about that special mode that Samus is in, when staying in that "reserves-kick-in mode" (by using X-Ray until the transfer ends), where the screen stays dark, because I already found out something very interesting about this mode:
In the video, one can see that, by letting the reserves kick in again after being already in this state, the normal state is obtained again AND (the thing that is much more interesting) Samus automatically gets into a standing position! Getting forced into a standing position (while for example jumping and having momentum) might not seem to be interesting, but that is wrong. The reason for this is (and I tested that already successfully) that even in ball form, Samus will be forced into a standing position regardless where Samus is at that moment, and that way, one can even get through/into the ceiling/solid blocks and maintain the momentum while the position where Samus´ (vertical) collision-detection is switches instantly from the top position of the ball to the position of Samus´ head in the frame when the reserves kick in. And that way, one can for example do a Springball-jump while being in this "reserve-mode", getting into that forced standing position shortly before the ball touches a (for example 1-block thick) ceiling in order to push Samus through the ceiling, and continue the jump (with the remaining momentum) after passing through the ceiling!
For example, if it was possible to obtain this reserve-mode within GT´s room, it would be humanly possible to collect the missile pack there in a NBMB playthrough (without Out of Bounds)!
And I am sure that there would in principle be other applications, too. 
[Maybe one can even obtain Blue-Suit that way, since Samus´ state changes instantly into a standing position, just like during other Blue-Suit methods.]
So let´s see how this mode can be activated, what effects it has, and the stability-properties of it.
2.Edit: Holy shit! (please forgive me my cursing) 
It actually IS possible to activate Blue-Suit that way (by letting the reserves kick in while being in that reserve-mode and while activating a delayed shinespark)!
[Lol, that is already the 4th Blue-Suit method that I found]
This is what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ats12sA_Ad0

3.Edit: Actually, I think one could use this reserve-mode somehow to get past that little platform in pre-Botwoon-room, but I have no clue if it could lead to new ("non-major-glitched") low% options with less than 14%.
Edit: Yes it did, for NTSC.

NearEDGE

Edit history:

NearEDGE: 2014-09-14 01:22:04 pm

2014-09-14 01:15:04 pm

BOMB JUMPING IS LOVE!

Not really a glitch, but the Charged Plasma/Wave beam kills Kraid in exactly two hits. It also does the same thing to Crocomire. 4 for Phantoom, and I haven't tested it on Ridley's first appearance or the Bomb Torizo.

Oh, for something that is a glitch. If you go to the Brinstar-Maridia tube from the wrong side, Morph Ball roll into the right pocket directly above the tube you're able to stand up and you'll fall into the tube upon standing up fully.

kirbymastah

2014-09-15 09:30:59 am

That's all known already nearEDGE.

If you find something "new", chances are, it's already known; this game has been very deeply researched. Regardless it doesn't hurt to share, but it's best to go on the #supermetroid channel in the speedrunslive IRC instead of posting each probably-old trick you find here.

Aran;Jaeger

Edit history:

Aran;Jaeger: 2016-01-17 04:33:06 pm

Aran;Jaeger: 2015-08-12 01:39:00 pm

2015-08-11 09:15:49 pm

Okay, so I don´t post in here often, and maybe this would fit better into TASVideos´ Super Metroid thread, but this is the Glitch Topic anyways, and I have an important issue that might have a solution that I would be very interested in, and people like PJBoy or CPadolf (or Kejardon who isn´t around anymore) might maybe know some details to make it possible...

So, the thing is the following: As hopefully well-known enough by now, Samus can be in a variety of different poses and still activate a Crystal Flash in such poses.
Now, Sniqwc3 has some days ago very recently successfully tested/found out that if one lays a powerbomb (with the purpose of using it for a Crystal Flash) perfectly horizontally centered and also with pixelperfect height above the yellow elevator platform of a downwards leading elevator such that it matches perfectly with Samus´ CF-center of her (sideways/non-centered) standing pose; and then places Samus on this elevator platform accordingly and holds all 4 CF buttons except "Down" (i.e. one holds Shot, L and R) or instead holds nothing and enters all four inputs at the same frame, the frame in which the game checks for CF, then it is (with practice, visual cues and many attempts even humanly) possible (via the Down input being added at exactly the crucial frame and not already before) to start the elevator ride and start the CF in the exact same frame, which causes the elevator ride to start normally and interrupt the CF (that will not even visually start (i.e. one will not see anything different from usual), but technically it does) and at the end of the (inbounds) elevator ride, Samus will have FlashSuit i.e. Shnespark-Suit i.e. a Free Spark i.e. Yellow Suit [well, there exist multiple names for the same thing...]. As a sidenote, if done correctly, since the CF is stopped immediately, there is no/zero exchange of ammunition in favour of energy happening, and one can also activate the CF after the elevator ride already started, which will have a different effect, namely Samus travelling down the elevator shaft while the CF is executed during which Samus will not interact with transition blocks and hence go Out of Bounds, and as soon as the CF ends, visually a sequence of seemingly chained "fake"-CFs starts during which the game starts to lag extremely. Obtaining a FlashSuit via following other events that force a pose upon Samus like entering the Ship or saving at a savestation seem to be impossible.

Furthermore, it happens to be the case that there do not exist any rooms with downwards leading elevators that also have at least one enemy in it (that could/should produce a powerbomb drop), and it seems that this trick does not work if one wants to use upwards leading elevators (for which plenty rooms exist that include such and have additionally enemies in them) because of the need to start the elevator ride (in this case via Up input) and in the same frame a CF (that doesn´t allow any further inputs to be present or other button combinations to be used if the CF shall start, and in this case the direction that the elevator ride shall go will not fit to the direction used for the CF, i.e. "Down") since the direction buttons cannot be re-mapped at a controller such that the "Down" button has the effect of the "Up" button [which is not but might have been a solution, since the game always (and regarding buttons only) checks for the shoulder buttons, the "Down" button and the currently mapped "Shot" button at the controller to be pressed in order to determine if a CF can be started].
Edit:
"But why is this interesting or relevant at all?" Well, in a nutshell, if this FlashSuit method would work using upwards leading elevators combined with a powerbomb drop from an enemy nearby, then 13%Powerbomb would be reality for TAS, and thus all 12 15 different 14% branches aswell as both Low% TASes over at TASVideos would immediately with one strike be obsolete (which they are now for NTSC), (because if that was possible, then one obviously could produce FlashSuit, enter Maridia via Forgotten Highway to get to the Mount Everest room and shinespark up there, then a ceiling-CF in pre-Botwoon room and the age old FlashSuit method at Draygon to escape pre-Draygon room and thus all of Maridia, followed by another elevator-FlashSuit for a Shinespark-Zebetite-Skip in Tourian; and Kraid, Phantoon and Lower Norfair / Ridley do not add any constraints anyways).

So the question/task is to find a way (if it exists) to make this new elevator-Flashsuit method possible, using upwards leading elevators such that not 3 powerbomb packs are needed for the setup. One idea that has not been tested was to somehow use lag frames at or close to the crucial frame in which elevator ride and CF shall be started, but I am not quite sure how that would make it possible.

And maybe this trick might have application in some TASes (such as a bunch of other things aswell).

Okay, so I don´t post in here often, and maybe this would fit better into TASVideos´ Super Metroid thread, but this is the Glitch Topic anyways, and I have an important issue that might have a solution that I would be very interested in, and people like PJBoy or CPadolf (or Kejardon who isn´t around anymore) might maybe know some details to make it possible...

So, the thing is the following: As hopefully well-known enough by now, Samus can be in a variety of different poses and still activate a Crystal Flash in such poses.
Now, Sniqwc3 has some days ago very recently successfully tested/found out that if one lays a powerbomb (with the purpose of using it for a Crystal Flash) perfectly horizontally centered and also with pixelperfect height above the yellow elevator platform of a downwards leading elevator such that it matches perfectly with Samus´ CF-center of her (sideways/non-centered) standing pose; and then places Samus on this elevator platform accordingly and holds all 4 CF buttons except "Down" (i.e. one holds Shot, L and R) or instead holds nothing and enters all four inputs at the same frame, the frame in which the game checks for CF, then it is (with practice, visual cues and many attempts even humanly) possible (via the Down input being added at exactly the crucial frame and not already before) to start the elevator ride and start the CF in the exact same frame, which causes the elevator ride to start normally and interrupt the CF (that will not even visually start (i.e. one will not see anything different from usual), but technically it does) and at the end of the (inbounds) elevator ride, Samus will have FlashSuit i.e. Shnespark-Suit i.e. a Free Spark i.e. Yellow Suit [well, there exist multiple names for the same thing...]. As a sidenote, if done correctly, since the CF is stopped immediately, there is no/zero exchange of ammunition in favour of energy happening, and one can also activate the CF after the elevator ride already started, which will have a different effect, namely Samus travelling down the elevator shaft while the CF is executed during which Samus will not interact with transition blocks and hence go Out of Bounds, and as soon as the CF ends, visually a sequence of seemingly chained "fake"-CFs starts during which the game starts to lag extremely. Obtaining a FlashSuit via following other events that force a pose upon Samus like entering the Ship or saving at a savestation seem to be impossible.

Furthermore, it happens to be the case that there do not exist any rooms with downwards leading elevators that also have at least one enemy in it (that could/should produce a powerbomb drop), and it seems that this trick does not work if one wants to use upwards leading elevators (for which plenty rooms exist that include such and have additionally enemies in them) because of the need to start the elevator ride (in this case via Up input) and in the same frame a CF (that doesn´t allow any further inputs to be present or other button combinations to be used if the CF shall start, and in this case the direction that the elevator ride shall go will not fit to the direction used for the CF, i.e. "Down") since the direction buttons cannot be re-mapped at a controller such that the "Down" button has the effect of the "Up" button [which is not but might have been a solution, since the game always (and regarding buttons only) checks for the shoulder buttons, the "Down" button and the currently mapped "Shot" button at the controller to be pressed in order to determine if a CF can be started].
Edit:
"But why is this interesting or relevant at all?" Well, in a nutshell, if this FlashSuit method would work using upwards leading elevators combined with a powerbomb drop from an enemy nearby, then 13%Powerbomb would be reality for TAS, and thus all [s]12[/s] 15 different 14% branches aswell as both Low% TASes over at TASVideos would immediately with one strike be obsolete (which they are now for NTSC), (because if that was possible, then one obviously could produce FlashSuit, enter Maridia via Forgotten Highway to get to the Mount Everest room and shinespark up there, then a ceiling-CF in pre-Botwoon room and the age old FlashSuit method at Draygon to escape pre-Draygon room and thus all of Maridia, followed by another elevator-FlashSuit for a Shinespark-Zebetite-Skip in Tourian; and Kraid, Phantoon and Lower Norfair / Ridley do not add any constraints anyways).

So the question/task is to find a way (if it exists) to make this new elevator-Flashsuit method possible, using upwards leading elevators such that not 3 powerbomb packs are needed for the setup. One idea that has not been tested was to somehow use lag frames at or close to the crucial frame in which elevator ride and CF shall be started, but I am not quite sure how that would make it possible.

And maybe this trick might have application in some TASes (such as a bunch of other things aswell).

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2015-08-13 06:18:05 pm

2015-08-13 06:17:27 pm

That's a pretty cool glitch, but except for the possible new category, this doesn't seem to be of much use, unlike the shinespike glitch, which gives you a free spark whenever you have a spike and can charge a shinespark. The problem with the elevator flash suit is that you need to drain all your health to perform the trick and all you get is a blue suit/free spark, but in the case of the free spark you don't even have the health to use it. I look forward to more possible ways to save a blue suit, maybe one of them could be useful to save time in the normal categories (any%, 100%, RBO...).

Aran;Jaeger

Edit history:

Aran;Jaeger: 2015-08-14 10:12:11 am

2015-08-14 08:53:22 am

Well, I mentioned to Taco that the Elevator-Flashsuit method would theoretically allow for (at least) two things, namely:
(i) Provided one gets at least 3 Powerbomb packs (e.g. both packs in Red Brinstar and the Craterian Powerbomb pack), then it would in principle be possible in a 100% TAS to clean up all of WS (i.e. collecting all items that are there, especially in particular including the R-Tank in WS) without the previous need to after entering Red Brinstar go to Norfair for Speedbooster.
(ii) Again, provided one gets at least 3 Powerbomb packs (due to the nature/requirements of the trick), in a TAS, one could perform the Elevator-FlashSuit method at the elevator from Brinstar to Norfair, then gain some health back (e.g. via farming Novas, or by collecting the E-Tank near HighJump [which is the more interesting(/efficient) case of getting energy back in a quick manner to use a shinespark] ) for the purpose of, instead of using the upper path in Norfair to the right, using this shinespark to get past the Beetom-/frog-hall and continue towards Bubble Mountain/Speedbooster that way.

And afterwards, he told me regarding (ii), that SaturnTAS in his RBO TAS has enough ammunition (in particular Powerbombs) when he arrives at the elevator from Brinstar to Norfair:

So I looked into this TAS now, to check if there was a way to usefully implement this trick into the TAS, and I will list some rough comparison results as follows:
As one can see at 16:00 (in the video), Samus in the TAS has 386 E-Tank energy (and, also noteworthy: 00 R-Tank energy), and the last E-Tank/"event that got him all this energy (that is too much for a Crystal Flash)" [since e.g. Energy Refill-Stations might have been used theoretically aswell (not that it would be likely to be faster at all)] that was obtained in this route before getting to this elevator at 16:00 is the Etecoon-E-Tank at 13:50, and thus (without considering re-routing) one might look for ideas/options to change the TAS within this segment in order to be able to apply option (ii) instead.
After watching this segment while searching for strong damage-sources nearby (since Samus at its end has 336 = 5*60 + 36 < 360 = 6*60 < 386 energy too much above 50 health), it comes to mind that maybe the spikes at the ceiling at the Noob-Bridge could be used in a similar manner as e.g. the last variant within (*) together with a temporary-invincibility cancelling method such as using Pseudo-ScrewAttack spinjumps to quickly drain health that way.
Actions that would possibly waste time in the case of option (ii), compared to the TAS:
- reducing energy at the Noob-Bridge
- waiting for the Powerbomb´s explosion to finish at the elevator
- somewhat more restrictive movement after getting the FlashSuit in order to not activate the shinespark (until it shall be used)
- laying a Powerbomb in Bubble Mountain to get past the upper floor
(- different RNG lateron)
Actions that would possibly gain time in the case of option (ii), compared to the TAS:
(- different RNG lateron)
- traversing through the straight/flat rooms beneath the upper path (including not having to climb up to the door that leads to the hellrun, after exiting HighJump´s area)

The number of door-transitions would in both cases be the same to get to Bubble Mountain.
Additionally though, it might turn out that in the case of option (ii), more ammunition (and health) would be kept, since some of this is used in the TAS to farm energy back from enemies in the hellrun at the upper path. Explicitly, the TAS loses 3 Missiles, 4 SuperMissiles and 136 energy (only) because of that hellrun and the door-shells there.

(*):

[Provided one would want to use those spikes 6 times (or 5 times together with some more enemy contacts to get strictly below 51 energy), it might make sense to get in contact with those spikes early on and still travel somehow (via damage-boosts) to the far right where the row of spikes ends.]

As a sidenote, I am sure (unless even more powerful techniques are found) that the Elevator-FlashSuit method will at least at one certain place (possibly at the elevator to Tourian) be part of a TAS of another category (outside of the already existing categories) that Nymx_ is planning to do.

Edit: Oh and one could via multiple Elevator-FlashSuit methods in principle also get the Craterian SuperMissiles and the E-Tank to the lower left of the Charge-room without Speedbooster, and thus clean up all of Crateria and Brinstar without entering Norfair, aswell. Just wanted to mention that.

Well, I mentioned to Taco that the Elevator-Flashsuit method would theoretically allow for (at least) two things, namely:
(i) Provided one gets at least 3 Powerbomb packs (e.g. both packs in Red Brinstar and the Craterian Powerbomb pack), then it would in principle be possible in a 100% TAS to clean up all of WS (i.e. collecting all items that are there, especially in particular including the R-Tank in WS) without the previous need to after entering Red Brinstar go to Norfair for Speedbooster.
(ii) Again, provided one gets at least 3 Powerbomb packs (due to the nature/requirements of the trick), in a TAS, one could perform the Elevator-FlashSuit method at the elevator from Brinstar to Norfair, then gain some health back (e.g. via farming Novas, or by collecting the E-Tank near HighJump [which is the more interesting(/efficient) case of getting energy back in a quick manner to use a shinespark] ) for the purpose of, instead of using the upper path in Norfair to the right, using this shinespark to get past the Beetom-/frog-hall and continue towards Bubble Mountain/Speedbooster that way.

And afterwards, he told me regarding (ii), that SaturnTAS in his RBO TAS has enough ammunition (in particular Powerbombs) when he arrives at the elevator from Brinstar to Norfair:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tse9ytU3dA[/url]

So I looked into this TAS now, to check if there was a way to usefully implement this trick into the TAS, and I will list some rough comparison results as follows:
As one can see at 16:00 (in the video), Samus in the TAS has 386 E-Tank energy (and, also noteworthy: 00 R-Tank energy), and the last E-Tank/"event that got him all this energy (that is too much for a Crystal Flash)" [since e.g. Energy Refill-Stations might have been used theoretically aswell (not that it would be likely to be faster at all)] that was obtained in this route before getting to this elevator at 16:00 is the Etecoon-E-Tank at 13:50, and thus (without considering re-routing) one might look for ideas/options to change the TAS within this segment in order to be able to apply option (ii) instead.
After watching this segment while searching for strong damage-sources nearby (since Samus at its end has 336 = 5*60 + 36 < 360 = 6*60 < 386 energy too much above 50 health), it comes to mind that maybe the spikes at the ceiling at the Noob-Bridge could be used in a similar manner as e.g. the last variant within (*) together with a temporary-invincibility cancelling method such as using Pseudo-ScrewAttack spinjumps to quickly drain health that way.
Actions that would possibly waste time in the case of option (ii), compared to the TAS:
- reducing energy at the Noob-Bridge
- waiting for the Powerbomb´s explosion to finish at the elevator
- somewhat more restrictive movement after getting the FlashSuit in order to not activate the shinespark (until it shall be used)
- laying a Powerbomb in Bubble Mountain to get past the upper floor
(- different RNG lateron)
Actions that would possibly gain time in the case of option (ii), compared to the TAS:
(- different RNG lateron)
- traversing through the straight/flat rooms beneath the upper path (including not having to climb up to the door that leads to the hellrun, after exiting HighJump´s area)

The number of door-transitions would in both cases be the same to get to Bubble Mountain.
Additionally though, it might turn out that in the case of option (ii), more ammunition (and health) would be kept, since some of this is used in the TAS to farm energy back from enemies in the hellrun at the upper path. Explicitly, the TAS loses 3 Missiles, 4 SuperMissiles and 136 energy (only) because of that hellrun and the door-shells there.

(*):
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNVBr1IYcB0[/url]
[Provided one would want to use those spikes 6 times (or 5 times together with some more enemy contacts to get strictly below 51 energy), it might make sense to get in contact with those spikes early on and still travel somehow (via damage-boosts) to the far right where the row of spikes ends.]

As a sidenote, I am sure (unless even more powerful techniques are found) that the Elevator-FlashSuit method will at least at one certain place (possibly at the elevator to Tourian) be part of a TAS of another category (outside of the already existing categories) that Nymx_ is planning to do.

Edit: Oh and one could via multiple Elevator-FlashSuit methods in principle also get the Craterian SuperMissiles and the E-Tank to the lower left of the Charge-room without Speedbooster, and thus clean up all of Crateria and Brinstar without entering Norfair, aswell. Just wanted to mention that.

Cpadolf

2015-08-14 05:35:01 pm

Almost happy

Using a flashsuit to go the lower route without speedbooster when heading through Norfair is definitely a very interesting idea that may well be faster. WS first in a 100% run seems like it would have too many issues though. Getting the third PB would be slow both because it's a bit out of the way and you'd have to do some bombjumps to reach there (as far as I know), you'd probably be forced to take Spore Spawns super missile as well (to have 10 supers for CF) which is much slower without PBs and speedbooster. You'd have two extra elevator rides (as well as a small detour to get to the elevators) to activate the flashsuit, significantly slower WS due to lack of equipment (the missile in the room outside of WS Attic would probably be very slow) and also some movement restrictions with the flashsuit. And then you'd still have to save the Gauntlet and Green/Pink brinstar cleanup until the end of the game. And to benefit from it fully I'd guess you would have to do Norfair in one trip, which would mean a pretty slow GT and Ridley due to lack of Plasma and fewer Super Missiles. Still, even though you'd miss out on the cleanup of Gauntlet/Green/Pink Brinstar there would definitely be some good streamlining of the route post-WS but I think the sacrifices are just too big.

Aran;Jaeger

2015-08-14 06:13:19 pm

Yes, Cpadolf I fully agree. I did not go further into any details regarding this option (i) that I mentioned above, since I was aware of some of the heavier problems that it would (as it seems) necessarily take with it, but I thought the idea would be noteworthy.