Glitch Topic

2010-12-04 02:32:48 pm

hehe ! no problem. It came out better than I expected actually !

2010-12-04 04:28:28 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I doubt the powers that be will look much at the content of the post beyond 'this is what it does'. I still think they'll accept it. When you conside that things like this are accepted, there's no reason for this to not be. That run contains almost zero content from the actual game.

Behemoth

2010-12-04 04:42:21 pm

I'm surprised something like that gets the go ahead tbh. I did watch it. I enjoy the castlevania games and I own that one and portrait of ruin. Did I enjoy that run?, admittedly no. Is that even considered a glitched run ?

Quietus

2010-12-04 04:46:36 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I don't think they really worry about glitches too much, as long as it's able to be done in-game. Sometimes it does completely ruin a game, but that's the way it is. To me, that is worse than the GT code thing, and still got accepted, which is why I believe that the GT code is bound to be considered acceptable. I suppose it's personal preference, as there no longer seems much distinction between what is a fun, skilful run of a game, and what is the fastest completion time. SDA, for both good and bad, goes for quickest time.

Prime Hunter

2010-12-04 06:11:01 pm

So just to be clear, what exactly happened with that run? I've never really played any of the Castlevania games before, but it looked like the player glitched through a wall, flew around outside the map for a bit, and ended up activating a warp room right next to the end of the game which they then proceeded to use after reloading. If something like that is acceptable, I don't see why something like the GT code wouldn't be, since there is still some skill involved in getting through the rest of the game even when you're given nearly every item at that point in time. (Like moving through the rooms quickly, defeating the bosses quickly, etc.)

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, how is this any different than skipping the item loss in Echoes? (Not that we've tried to pass that through SDA yet, as far as I know.) Sure, there's a difference between pressing a certain button combination and going outside the game world, from both the difficulty involved in pulling off each trick and what is actually happening in order to get the items, but both of these are within the realm of each game and don't require anything beyond what we're given. (No outside influences, to be specific.)

Even if SDA doesn't consider the difference between a skilled player and one who simply knows the tricks, I'd like to think that most viewers would if they have any knowledge of the game in question.

So just to be clear, what exactly happened with that run? I've never really played any of the Castlevania games before, but it looked like the player glitched through a wall, flew around outside the map for a bit, and ended up activating a warp room right next to the end of the game which they then proceeded to use after reloading. If something like that is acceptable, I don't see why something like the GT code wouldn't be, since there is still some skill involved in getting through the rest of the game even when you're given nearly every item at that point in time. (Like moving through the rooms quickly, defeating the bosses quickly, etc.)

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, how is this any different than skipping the item loss in Echoes? (Not that we've tried to pass that through SDA yet, as far as I know.) Sure, there's a difference between pressing a certain button combination and going outside the game world, from both the difficulty involved in pulling off each trick and what is actually happening in order to get the items, but both of these are within the realm of each game and don't require anything beyond what we're given. (No outside influences, to be specific.)

Even if SDA doesn't consider the difference between a skilled player and one who simply knows the tricks, I'd like to think that most viewers would if they have any knowledge of the game in question.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-04 08:33:53 pm

2010-12-04 08:31:53 pm

Well I started a private thread with Mike on SDA and got a reply saying that it would become a seperate Glitch catagory should a run contain this code. Which is good news I guess !. Apparantly he'd already heard about this as well. Word does indeed get around pretty fast on the internet.

Tyjet66

2010-12-04 10:56:11 pm

What'd you say?

Quote from Behemoth:

Well I started a private thread with Mike on SDA and got a reply saying that it would become a seperate Glitch catagory should a run contain this code. Which is good news I guess !. Apparantly he'd already heard about this as well. Word does indeed get around pretty fast on the internet.

I disagree with Mike's take on this as the code is not a "Glitch", it was programmed into the game and it works exactly how it was programmed; a glitch is where the coding of the program does not work properly, and this is not the case.

Behemoth

2010-12-04 11:13:47 pm

He didn't actualy say it's a glitch but should a run use it it would come under a 'seperate' glitched run which to me and I think most people is distinguished by a very heavy abuse of something to drop the time and the majority of the game out. The word 'glitch' isn't the important apspect here, although I agree it probably should be. Unless we want to use another catagory name like any% code run. When this new catagory arises the name of it will probably be changed to something that represents it better, but for now the name would be Glitch run because of it's overal result on the run. It's easier to go by at the moment.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-12-05 07:41:55 am

Reeve: 2010-12-05 07:41:33 am

Reeve: 2010-12-05 07:41:16 am

2010-12-05 07:40:35 am

Little question: If i start a new game and play till i get the necessary itens to use the Reset Glitch and so the game start again from Ceres... the question is, does the in-game timer keep counting or reset on Ceres?

I always thought it was reseted, but thinking about that, if it was reseted, so the item percentage would be reseted too...

So, if the in-game timer is not reseted, the fastest way to beat the game would be going straight to LN and use the GT code to have All Beams, so return to Crateria and use the Space Time Glitch to make the planet start exploding and go to the ship. Am I thinking right?

Quietus

2010-12-05 09:13:16 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

The term 'glitched' is, I believe, and all-encompassing term used on SDA. It just covers every type of method involving such things as bugs, glitches, error abuse, et cetera.

JAM

Edit history:

JAM: 2010-12-06 12:19:56 am

2010-12-05 11:36:51 pm

Quote from Tyjet66:

I've been following the GT code since it has been found and it just leads me to one interesting question... Will this forever change runs of hacks as well?

I have a nice idea for hack. Start your game with 700 Energy, 300
Reserve Energy, 100 Missiles, 20 Super Missiles, 20 Power Bombs and
all items and beams, lose all that during Ridley battle like it
was in Prime, but later place a hint somewhere that will give you a
code and instructions where to enter it. And modify this code to add 100
Missiles and other ammo and health to the current inventory and display
"system state restored" message when applying the code, possibly change the
palette for a moment.

And this code also works with bomb Torizo if place it in Norfair.

Behemoth

2010-12-06 07:19:55 pm

Ok it's time for 100% to go through the GT code test. I've just finished what I hope is the best route for a 100% run that uses the code.

Now there's a few things to remember in this. Because I do GT code early like before it means I have to backtrack to get the missiles on the left of GT's room. Which looks like a big circle just to get these missiles. There is absolutely no other time to get them. Now your probably thinking why don't you get them later when you have space jump and gravity suit so you can use the statue to get the missiles in one go like always. Well because that would simply be an ordinary 100% run because there would also be no need to do the GT code as you have more items than it gives you. Because you would have explored wrecked ship and maridia and gotten all those items anyway. The point of this TAS was to see the effect on the completion time the GT code has for 100% when done early and optimably. Exploring lower norfair, maridia etc in the same optimal order as the any% TAS I did recently.

The run proved to be deceptively tricky to plan. With a dubious cleanup section left at the end which looks as if it can't possibly be the quickest way but I'm sure it is. I designed most of it while reeve chipped in on a section I explained to him in norfair that I clearly did wrong so I had to delete a quarter of the run and start it again.

The last thing to mention is I missed the missiles in the big steps room in brinstar. The ones that sit in the pipe. Throuhgout the planning early on I thought I'd be coming back and getting them in the faster fashion like always but as the planning process changed later on I realised I wouldn't be taking that path again so the missiles were deliberately left out because I would have had to delete too much of the run and I was anxious to finish it. So you can just add 8 or so seconds onto the final time as if I'd actually picked them up.

Same emulator as before snes9x 1.43 v17

Ok it's time for 100% to go through the GT code test. I've just finished what I hope is the best route for a 100% run that uses the code.

Now there's a few things to remember in this. Because I do GT code early like before it means I have to backtrack to get the missiles on the left of GT's room. Which looks like a big circle just to get these missiles. There is absolutely no other time to get them. Now your probably thinking why don't you get them later when you have space jump and gravity suit so you can use the statue to get the missiles in one go like always. Well because that would simply be an ordinary 100% run because there would also be no need to do the GT code as you have more items than it gives you. Because you would have explored wrecked ship and maridia and gotten all those items anyway. The point of this TAS was to see the effect on the completion time the GT code has for 100% when done early and optimably. Exploring lower norfair, maridia etc in the same optimal order as the any% TAS I did recently.

The run proved to be deceptively tricky to plan. With a dubious cleanup section left at the end which looks as if it can't possibly be the quickest way but I'm sure it is. I designed most of it while reeve chipped in on a section I explained to him in norfair that I clearly did wrong so I had to delete a quarter of the run and start it again.

The last thing to mention is I missed the missiles in the big steps room in brinstar. The ones that sit in the pipe. Throuhgout the planning early on I thought I'd be coming back and getting them in the faster fashion like always but as the planning process changed later on I realised I wouldn't be taking that path again so the missiles were deliberately left out because I would have had to delete too much of the run and I was anxious to finish it. So you can just add 8 or so seconds onto the final time as if I'd actually picked them up.

Same emulator as before snes9x 1.43 v17

attachment:

100% GT code (NTSC).smv

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-12-07 06:31:09 am

2010-12-07 06:30:51 am

Nice video! There was only one unnecessary backtrack that i've noticed. After Wrecked Ship and going to Brinstar Clean-up, you've passed the Ship area instead of going up to collect the Power Bomb and to the Gauntlet, so you wouldn't have to go back there when emerging up the crateria shaft like you did. Apart of it, it was a very good run! Congrats!

Quietus

2010-12-07 08:06:51 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm not surprised at the time. I was suspecting as much, essentially due to the fact that you save so much time in tonnes of the rooms, even though you have to make some nasty detours - in particular the GT Missiles.

Behemoth

2010-12-07 12:05:10 pm

I probably could have got the gauntlet stuff on the first trip yea. I don't know why I left it till last like usual. Remember though that the only backtrack from it is coming up from crateria shaft and turning right to go into landing site. That's about 8 seconds I would say. Which is ironic because If I'd got those brinstar missiles and didn't do this backtrack my final time would end up being about the same.

So yea 42:42. That's about 2 minutes faster than ordinary 100%. There were a few more optimisations I could have done here and there after I watched it again but nothing worth mentioning. But I'm glad I done the TAS because I knew they'd be a lot of backtracks but also a lot of areas sped up from things like space jump and screw attack. Not to mention the x ray - plasma method to kill the bosses which I believe the main bulk of the time saved comes from them. I knew it was all worth a test. Anyway it'd be another catagory regardless and one that sees a notable difference in the final time. Tests, successfully finished !

(low% ?, that's pointless...)

I probably could have got the gauntlet stuff on the first trip yea. I don't know why I left it till last like usual. Remember though that the only backtrack from it is coming up from crateria shaft and turning right to go into landing site. That's about 8 seconds I would say. Which is ironic because If I'd got those brinstar missiles and didn't do this backtrack my final time would end up being about the same.

So yea 42:42. That's about 2 minutes faster than ordinary 100%. There were a few more optimisations I could have done here and there after I watched it again but nothing worth mentioning. But I'm glad I done the TAS because I knew they'd be a lot of backtracks but also a lot of areas sped up from things like space jump and screw attack. Not to mention the x ray - plasma method to kill the bosses which I believe the main bulk of the time saved comes from them. I knew it was all worth a test. Anyway it'd be another catagory regardless and one that sees a notable difference in the final time. Tests, successfully finished !

(low% ?, that's pointless...)

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-14 04:12:41 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-14 03:53:31 pm

2010-12-14 03:45:24 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

It could be at least 1 to 2 minutes faster honestly. I couldn't help but notice that you kept a lot of the same strategies as your normal 100% in certain rooms. I couldn't help but, laugh in the Attic Room and the Hopper room above the Spore Spawn as well as a few others. It seems as if you forgotten that you have the Plasma Beam. LOL!!! All and all it was pretty good though. There was a couple of interesting things done. Man the Wrecked Ship looks pretty fun with the Space Jump/Plasma Beam and Gravity Suit. Also I guess I never noticed before but, I like your 1st Metroid Room strategy better then the one I've been using. My brother and I do something similar to Cpadolf's strategy but, I think yours is faster for Console Conditions. I think the only way the other way would be faster is if we could kill the 3rd Metroid like Cpadolf does but, that's just not possible.

Behemoth

2010-12-14 05:43:08 pm

Yeah I noticed a lot of rooms could have benefited from having the extra items I had. If I just stopped to think about what I had and the room at hand I could have worked some things out. O yeah the hopper room in sandy brinstar. You can tell my segment practice is getting to me when I use missiles in a room instead of plasma. lol *holds head in hands*

As for metroid rooms yeah. It's thanks to changing select button to L button all those months ago but yeah I don't think I can improve these rooms. Totally consistant with the first three metroids in that room but that third one can be a pain to hit sometimes. But the fourth is better to jump high out the acid and shoot your plasma as your decending then switch and as you run forward fire super and kill that way. Although occassionally I'm able to do small jump onto platform, run forward fast, shoot plasma and switch as quick as possible to super while running so it looks really TAS like. Did I do that in the TAS? can't rememeber.

2nd room is deceptivly difficult sometimes. The turnaround mid air is difficult if your not thinking about it. But this is not an any% room strat for me because of lack of supers. I prefer to collect these troids drops if I can using the old strat.

3rd room is a bit more troublesome on NTSC I noticed. Hitting that 2nd metroid before you take off is a bit more finicky compared to PAL. The last metroid to hit it's better to shoot ahead for the plasma shot which comes after the 2nd space jump, then aim diagonally down after touching the ceiling then switch and super shot aiming down and then hold down on the d pad to help with the plat grab after. I love this room strat but it isn't for the faint hearted lol.

Yeah I noticed a lot of rooms could have benefited from having the extra items I had. If I just stopped to think about what I had and the room at hand I could have worked some things out. O yeah the hopper room in sandy brinstar. You can tell my segment practice is getting to me when I use missiles in a room instead of plasma. lol *holds head in hands*

As for metroid rooms yeah. It's thanks to changing select button to L button all those months ago but yeah I don't think I can improve these rooms. Totally consistant with the first three metroids in that room but that third one can be a pain to hit sometimes. But the fourth is better to jump high out the acid and shoot your plasma as your decending then switch and as you run forward fire super and kill that way. Although occassionally I'm able to do small jump onto platform, run forward fast, shoot plasma and switch as quick as possible to super while running so it looks really TAS like. Did I do that in the TAS? can't rememeber.

2nd room is deceptivly difficult sometimes. The turnaround mid air is difficult if your not thinking about it. But this is not an any% room strat for me because of lack of supers. I prefer to collect these troids drops if I can using the old strat.

3rd room is a bit more troublesome on NTSC I noticed. Hitting that 2nd metroid before you take off is a bit more finicky compared to PAL. The last metroid to hit it's better to shoot ahead for the plasma shot which comes after the 2nd space jump, then aim diagonally down after touching the ceiling then switch and super shot aiming down and then hold down on the d pad to help with the plat grab after. I love this room strat but it isn't for the faint hearted lol.

Prime Hunter

2010-12-14 06:57:27 pm

Quote from Behemoth:

O yeah the hopper room in sandy brinstar. You can tell my segment practice is getting to me when I use missiles in a room instead of plasma. lol *holds head in hands*

Sandy Brinstar? You talking about that room right near the elevator leading towards the WS with a power bomb in it? If so, I just try and get all of them together and blast them at once with a PB when I blow open the floor to get the expansion. Course, I'm talking about a normal run where I go in there right after getting the initial PBs so I don't have Plasma yet, which explains the difference.

Quote from JAM:

Quote from Tyjet66:

I've been following the GT code since it has been found and it just leads me to one interesting question... Will this forever change runs of hacks as well?

...And this code also works with bomb Torizo if place it in Norfair.

OK, if that's the case then I think that answers the question I was about to ask, which was whether or not it is the Torizos themselves that set off the code, or if it is that one specific room.

[quote="Behemoth"]O yeah the hopper room in sandy brinstar. You can tell my segment practice is getting to me when I use missiles in a room instead of plasma. lol *holds head in hands*[/quote]
Sandy Brinstar? You talking about that room right near the elevator leading towards the WS with a power bomb in it? If so, I just try and get all of them together and blast them at once with a PB when I blow open the floor to get the expansion. Course, I'm talking about a normal run where I go in there right after getting the initial PBs so I don't have Plasma yet, which explains the difference.

[quote="JAM"][quote="Tyjet66"]I've been following the GT code since it has been found and it just leads me to one interesting question... Will this forever change runs of hacks as well?[/quote]
...And this code also works with bomb Torizo if place it in Norfair.[/quote]
OK, if that's the case then I think that answers the question I was about to ask, which was whether or not it is the Torizos themselves that set off the code, or if it is that one specific room.

Behemoth

2010-12-14 07:05:01 pm

Quote:

Sandy Brinstar? You talking about that room right near the elevator leading towards the WS with a power bomb in it? If so, I just try and get all of them together and blast them at once with a PB when I blow open the floor to get the expansion. Course, I'm talking about a normal run where I go in there right after getting the initial PBs so I don't have Plasma yet, which explains the difference.

No it's the tall-ish room with the two normal hoppers and a large one with a gate at the top and an ET in the next room. Normal runs you shoot them with missiles for a quick kill but on the GT code run I had plasma and could have made it faster. Too used to doing my console run at the moment is to blame.

But yeah the room you mentioned we have covered. You don't actually have to 'gather' them all. you can run straight in and lay a power bomb above the last metal pillar underneath you and just fall down. It usually helps to stay as a ball as the blocks are being blown apart and then unmorph as you go down to keep the hoppers in sight for longer letting the power bombs do there double damage. Which IIRC is what kills them with one PB anyway.

[quote]Sandy Brinstar? You talking about that room right near the elevator leading towards the WS with a power bomb in it? If so, I just try and get all of them together and blast them at once with a PB when I blow open the floor to get the expansion. Course, I'm talking about a normal run where I go in there right after getting the initial PBs so I don't have Plasma yet, which explains the difference.[/quote]

No it's the tall-ish room with the two normal hoppers and a large one with a gate at the top and an ET in the next room. Normal runs you shoot them with missiles for a quick kill but on the GT code run I had plasma and could have made it faster. Too used to doing my console run at the moment is to blame.

But yeah the room you mentioned we have covered. You don't actually have to 'gather' them all. you can run straight in and lay a power bomb above the last metal pillar underneath you and just fall down. It usually helps to stay as a ball as the blocks are being blown apart and then unmorph as you go down to keep the hoppers in sight for longer letting the power bombs do there double damage. Which IIRC is what kills them with one PB anyway.

Prime Hunter

2010-12-14 07:28:57 pm

Ah, ok, the one off of the room with the charge beam in it. That's one of the last rooms I get to on my 100% runs so I just use the Screw Attack on them.

And yeah, that's more or less what I meant with that other room by "gathering" them together. By the time I lay the PB they're all chasing me anyway so they get caught in the blast.

Opium

2010-12-16 01:01:52 pm

I have used the murder beam a couple of times in the past, but that was a long time ago. I'm trying to use it now and having the hardest time. I've read and re-read the instructions on the main site, and cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. The part I'm stuck on is equipping all five beams at once. My save state has me entering ridley's room with power bombs equipped. I go to the start screen, unequip the PBs, and change my beam to where all beams are active except plasma. I return to the main screen and charge a shot while facing left. Once fully charged, I go to the subscreen and move the cursor to speed booster. I press left and fire simultaneously, but each time I do it the cursor merely moves left over to plasma. Am I not pressing them precisely at the same time? Am I doing something else wrong? *scratches head*

Quietus

2010-12-16 03:09:17 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It'll probably be easier if I describe it in order, and try to be a little clearer than the site's description. aiwebs_011

You said that your save state has Power Bombs equipped, so as soon as you start moving, press item cancel.
Since it sounds like you do not have all beams equipped, press start, and equip Charge, Ice, Wave, and Spazer.
Return to your game.
Face left.
Charge your shot, and press start. Remember to hold your charge until you are completely back into the inventory screen.
Move to the speed Booster.
Press left and your button that switches things on / off. The timing on this is not THAT fussy, and I managed it three times in a row without much effort, so it must have been something else you were doing / not doing.
You'll then see the oVAR appear, and you can press start to release the Murder Beam.

Hope that helps. aiwebs_004

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-12-16 03:29:02 pm

2010-12-16 03:22:50 pm

Wait, what? The site says to press FIRE and left at the same time, not item cancel. Sounds like was my whole problem. Also, when you say to make sure that you continue to hold your shot until you are well in to the inventory screen....do you mean all the way into the inventory screen or can you release the button when you are on the map screen? I let go of the button once the map screen is completely up, so that my shot isn't fired in the game right before the map screen comes up.

Thanks for your help, I'll give this a try later.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-16 04:43:05 pm

2010-12-16 04:40:02 pm

Quietus just means item cancel anyway before hand as it could interfere with the glitch thereafter. It probaby doesn't make a difference but it's better to just cancel anyway just in case.

You can just release buttons even when your just on the map it's fine and then set up the murder beam as normal after going to inventory.

Opium

2010-12-16 04:56:58 pm

Quote from Behemoth:

Quietus just means item cancel anyway before hand as it could interfere with the glitch thereafter. It probaby doesn't make a difference but it's better to just cancel anyway just in case.

OK now I'm a little confused. Which button + left am I supposed to push in order to equip all 5 beams?