Glitch Topic

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 02:50:13 pm

2010-12-01 02:46:49 pm

yea i was starting to think the same thing. i think console speed runs using it are very unlikey but TAS's. yea........

bt yea i think the only benfit i can see from it would be entering LN as early as possible. like after killing kraid. then do the rest of LN. no need to do the upper norfair item collection. then do maridia, wrecked ship, that lastly tourian.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 03:39:22 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 03:32:55 pm

2010-12-01 03:23:38 pm

You also get both suits from the glitch too (but varia might be handy to supress the heat so you don't need as much energy tanks to survive to get there). Don't press forward to give yourself more momentum into the door either because that stops the glitch from working. Hold the four button throughout the door transition. Interestingly you get the 5 items, missiles, supers, power bombs, grapple beam and x ray but the icons at the top of the screen don't actually appear unless you allready have them. So for example I'm playing the game now with just missiles, super and P bombs. But if I press select again I can use grapple and x ray respectively but their icons are not there.

questions reamining are: How to enter LN without suits ? ,and if you can, how many E tanks will you need to get to GT door to perform the trick. Because if you have to do a big E tank hunt before hand then the glitch may just be pointless.

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2010-12-01 05:22:12 pm

2010-12-01 05:20:56 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Since you have to kill Kraid anyway, and you don't need to do any messing around with his hidden Power Bomb pack, you don't save that much time killing Kraid later, so you could do him on the way to Ridley anyway, so your order would Kraid, Ridley, Draygon, Phantoon.

I've done some testing for the idea of suitless Lower Norfair, and it seems all but impossible without an excess of tanks, which'd make the venture pointless.

Behemoth

2010-12-01 05:38:53 pm

That's a shame. So even killing kraid first and getting his varia suit, you still need loads of E tanks ?.

BTW I overlooked something important. If you do this glitch without gravity suit, when you go to kill phantoon you can just leave wrecked ship immediately. No going to the attic room and no need to get to the chozo to carry you accross the the spikes to the gravity chamber. This and of course no plasma hunt after killing draygon. I don't know but I'm quite optimistic of future TAS's in pipeline. I can't see any crazy records being set though with it. You'd probably see another final time of 0:23

Turtle

2010-12-01 06:20:38 pm

I like turtles.

If you kill Kraid and get the Varia first, it wouldn't be suitless.

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2010-12-01 06:23:31 pm

2010-12-01 06:23:16 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

We're not just talking about getting there suitless. It was just an 'if you could do so to save time with this glitch', rather than 'is it possible'.

Behemoth: No, the testing I did was for the idea of getting there suitless. Getting Varia would make it much easier, but you'd need to grab Hi-Jump too, to gravity jump through the lava room before the lift. Also, you have to take quite a circuitous route through Norfair to get there, as both the Ice Beam route, and the right-hand exit from the Norfair shaft (through the save room) both require Speed Booster. You'd have to take the 'intended' route to Wave / Speed Booster, and drop down.

Behemoth

2010-12-01 06:45:52 pm

I think having varia suit is mandatory at this stage because suitless you'd need a shitload of E tanks to survive the trip to GT door. And besides your not wasting time going too Kraid and killing him, only walking into the next room to pick up the varia. It's just that LN entry that is the problem. You'd want to get in there without the aid of gravity suit (gravity jump) so that you don't need to pick it up in wrecked ship. But it seems impossible without it, ie just having varia. Once your in LN it shouldn't bee too problematic. Just not having space jump which is fairly slow. But at least varia is stopping you dying from the heat.

I must have overlooked the route through norfair to LN elevator. Yeah you would have to take the right path to the bubble room and down making that slow. I thought maybe early power bombs in red brinstar to speed this up but that would be slower overal because it's not like your going to pick up kraids missiles in an any% to make up for lost time. Ahh it seems there is a blockade for every possible solution.

Didn't you say that it's possible to get into LN without gravity suit in TAS conditions ? (suitless or having just varia are the same thing exept suitless you have the burden of mass energy drainage).

I think having varia suit is mandatory at this stage because suitless you'd need a shitload of E tanks to survive the trip to GT door. And besides your not wasting time going too Kraid and killing him, only walking into the next room to pick up the varia. It's just that LN entry that is the problem. You'd want to get in there without the aid of gravity suit (gravity jump) so that you don't need to pick it up in wrecked ship. But it seems impossible without it, ie just having varia. Once your in LN it shouldn't bee too problematic. Just not having space jump which is fairly slow. But at least varia is stopping you dying from the heat.

I must have overlooked the route through norfair to LN elevator. Yeah you would have to take the right path to the bubble room and down making that slow. I thought maybe early power bombs in red brinstar to speed this up but that would be slower overal because it's not like your going to pick up kraids missiles in an any% to make up for lost time. Ahh it seems there is a blockade for every possible solution.

Didn't you say that it's possible to get into LN without gravity suit in TAS conditions ? (suitless or having just varia are the same thing exept suitless you have the burden of mass energy drainage).

Quietus

2010-12-01 07:24:24 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

The trick I was thinking of was using a Super Short Charge in the room before, fall, damage boost from the fireball, and spark upward to the door, but having looked into it, this still requires Gravity.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-01 08:23:18 pm

You can get into LN suitless using this trick:
http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_gravity_suit_norfair.php

The trick requires Hi-Jump, but it looks (maybe) possible on console.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 08:39:41 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 08:39:29 pm

2010-12-01 08:35:10 pm

f******ck i didn't know that was possible. I'm so interested in this now. Get to GT door, do glitch, kill GT, kill ridley, go to maridia and kill draygon, ignore plasma collection, go to wrecked ship kill phantoon, leave immediately and go to tourian.

Kraid and varia will be dealt with before the LN break in so that health and load and loads of E tanks arn't a concern. you will of course need some to survive the larva but after that your good as gold. One problem though that I found out. You need power bombs to clear the blocks to land on the statue that removes the larva for you.

once the power bomb issue is sorted we'd then have to do some test runs on emulator or something to see if it has any dramatic affect on the final time because right now I can't work out if it's all faster or slower.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-01 08:58:50 pm

You could get early power bombs in Crateria, but that just slows down the route even more. BTW, does that statue work without Space Jump? I know some of them require it, but I don't know which ones.

But if this is possible, then I think it could be faster. I don't think it takes that long to go through LN, and it saves plenty of running around (for Gravity, Plasma, etc.)

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:10:13 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:06:37 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:04:55 pm

2010-12-01 09:04:01 pm

The only power bombs I could suggest are the ones at the top of red brinstar that you'd get on a normal any% run anyway.

I really have no idea about space jump requirement for the statues. I've personally never heard of it before. Is it in some hacks or something ? Do you mean to actually reach the statue using the space jump ?. Actually yeah that larva lake could be very problematic at crossing it without space jump. gravity suit might be ok but we don't want to get that lol. I think if this all works then it's biggest gains are not collecting gravity suit in wrecked ship and instead leave to the left and head for crateria at the end of the run.

yea this glitch by passes speed booster and wave beam collection, oh and probably ice come to think of it...

so that's a total of skipping wave, speed boost, ice beam, plasma and and gravity suit. yep as you can probably tell, I'm optimistic.

Major edit spree: also you could skip spazer

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-01 09:11:24 pm

I thought that one of the statues in the game required Space Jump, but I could be (and most likely am) wrong. I'm sure it's possible to reach that statue without Space Jump, I just don't know if it will work. As for the power bombs, you'd need the pack in Brinstar (not Crateria, my mistake).

Also, just to clarify, you do mean lava lake, right?

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:22:19 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:22:00 pm

2010-12-01 09:16:37 pm

but your text under name says your always right..... hah

I'm going to test reaching the statue space jumpless right now. yea lava not larva, like baby insect or something lol

yep just tried it. easily reachable. just jump as far as you can lay a power bomb, get onto the steps on the left and spin jump up there, wall jump off the ledge and onto the statues platform.

JAM

2010-12-01 09:22:26 pm

Turtle
Yes, it affects item percentage because percentage is based on amount of
items you have, not the actual collected amount from items. And it allows to go above 100%.

But this code doesn't affect items. It just gives you certain amount
of ammo and energy without affecting any item in the game. So, if you have approx. 200 Missiles, 40 Super Missiles and 40 Power Bombs, after entering this code you'll
get 100; 20; 20 and you can't finish the game with 100% because
already collected items will not respawn.

But if in GT room you have less amount of ammo and energy than
the code gives you (Example: 50; 10; 10), then you can go above 100%

As for item and beam upgrades, it doesn't matter what items do
you have when triggering this code. You can even get Plasma Beam by the
code and then go to Maridia and get Plasma normally (but it
wouldn't change anything and wouldn't get extra 1% from doing this).

Max percentage you can get using this way is 135% with:
325 Missiles
65 Super Missiles
65 Power Bombs
2100 Energy
700 Reserve Energy
All beams
All items+empty item with value 0010 (not affecting anything,
doesn't count in percentage)

So, you can get 135% without reset glitch. Even on console. Cool, huh? =)

Quietus
My that post about percentage is based on thinking that there was
this amount of ammo and energy when you complete the beta, but I maybe wrong

And right now I'm recording my own 135% speedrun (non TAS). Idea is
to having as low ammo and energy as possible with any items and
any beams before meeting with Golden Torizo. Right after beating
him, go collect items.

Everyone can beat me later as I'm not a TAS'er, but I want to be the
first one =)

[b]Turtle[/b]
Yes, it affects item percentage because percentage is based on amount of 
items you have, not the actual collected amount from items. And it allows to go above 100%.

But this code doesn't affect items. It just gives you certain amount 
of ammo and energy without affecting any item in the game. So, if you have approx. 200 Missiles, 40 Super Missiles and 40 Power Bombs, after entering this code you'll 
get 100; 20; 20 and you can't finish the game with 100% because 
already collected items will not respawn.

But if in GT room you have less amount of ammo and energy than 
the code gives you (Example: 50; 10; 10), then you can go above 100%

As for item and beam upgrades, it doesn't matter what items do 
you have when triggering this code. You can even get Plasma Beam by the 
code and then go to Maridia and get Plasma normally (but it 
wouldn't change anything and wouldn't get extra 1% from doing this).

Max percentage you can get using this way is 135% with:
325 Missiles
65 Super Missiles
65 Power Bombs
2100 Energy
700 Reserve Energy
All beams
All items+empty item with value 0010 (not affecting anything, 
doesn't count in percentage)

So, you can get 135% without reset glitch. Even on console. Cool, huh? =)

[b]Quietus[/b]
My that post about percentage is based on thinking that there was 
this amount of ammo and energy when you complete the beta, but I maybe wrong

And right now I'm recording my own 135% speedrun (non TAS). Idea is 
to having as low ammo and energy as possible with any items and 
any beams before meeting with Golden Torizo. Right after beating 
him, go collect items.

Everyone can beat me later as I'm not a TAS'er, but I want to be the 
first one =)

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:36:29 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:34:21 pm

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:34:04 pm

2010-12-01 09:26:03 pm

I'll probably do a realtime TAS any% speed run at some point. Mine will be the opposite agender to yours. Not collecting items to aid faster time and the glitch will give me what I want and then some :)

you also don't need to get draygons space jump. another 5 - 10 seconds saved, any% run of course.

Wow shit another revelation. you could use the X ray - plasma beam combo to one round draygon and phantoon.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-01 09:43:39 pm

Just tested it and you can get to the statue in the lava room with only one energy tank remaining. I can't get it to trigger though. Does it require anything to trigger?

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-01 09:47:52 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2010-12-01 09:46:41 pm

2010-12-01 09:45:07 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

First off this is an amazing find!!! Perfect for RBO or maybe even a 14% or less if it doesn't count towards your item percentage. Just collect your gravity suit and go to Norfair!!! Second it won't crash the game if you charge your beam or equip you missiles before you jump through the door. Yea no need for bomb jumping you can just jump or jump ball through the door.

Behemoth

2010-12-01 09:48:50 pm

this is definately pretty sick stuff. I've just started the realtime TAS actually. But the thing about the statue that Metroid_Zelda Fan said has concerned me. It worked when I did it, I unequiped all the things you wouldn't have on an any% run. but then maybe the game still 'sees' them, probably does.

I don't think it would be right for an low% because it defeats the object of staying alive and surviving which is really the low% main appeal.

lxx4xNx6xxl

2010-12-01 09:50:58 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

If it doesn't count towards your percentage then why not. Although it would be considered a glitched run.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 09:54:35 pm

2010-12-01 09:54:04 pm

True, if it's a different catagory then that's cool. I was hoping that any% wouldn't need a different catagory but in hindsight this is totally breaking the game and it's making everything easy. My exitment lies in what kind of time you could get out of it at the end.

lxx4xNx6xxl

2010-12-01 10:07:03 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

It would be amazing if you could do the glitch before the Golden Torzio. My brother thinks it might have something to do with the lag in the Golden Torizo's room.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2010-12-01 10:11:57 pm

2010-12-01 10:09:58 pm

Wasn't it supposed to be a training kind thing that the programmers used to test the room out and GT and forgot to remove it in the final game ?. makes me wonder if it can be used before other bosses. But maybe with different requirements...?

I'm at the charge beam and I'm wondering if I need to pick it up or not? I'm thinking no but getting to kraid could be anoying.

Metroid_Zelda Fan

2010-12-01 10:26:31 pm

You should probably pick it up. It will probably speed you up more than it will slow you down.

Behemoth

2010-12-01 10:32:38 pm

yep I did in the end. It helped, probably essential for the kraid trip anyway. I'm now in norfair getting the hi jumps boots.