The pony thread [locked]

tomatobob

2013-02-17 07:09:38 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Ahahahahahaha

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 09:22:18 am

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 09:01:59 am

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 08:25:48 am

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 07:21:46 am

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 07:20:15 am

2013-02-17 07:19:15 am

Viking

Precursor

So, after reflecting over it a little more, my conclusion is that literally nothing in that episode made any fucking sort of sense or anything that even remotely resembled sense at all.

Best episodes of season 3 in some sort of order: Magic Duel, Wonderbolts Academy, Too Many Pinkie Pies, Sleepless in Ponyville. The rest of the season was honestly a resounding "meh".

I fear for season 4 now. Which if I understand correctly is going to be 26 episodes. I just don't anymore.

There's a tiny glimmer of hope in that we should apparently view this episode as the first episode of a three-parter, so maybe the two-parter season 4 opener will actually find a way to fix this mess.

And another thing just hit me relating to Magic Duel, but I'll wait with mentioning that until Poision has seen the episode too.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 10:44:47 am

2013-02-17 10:30:52 am

Viking

Precursor

In completely different news: what the actual fuck (source of second link not 100% confirmed at this point in time though)

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 03:58:41 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 03:58:28 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 03:18:33 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-17 03:06:23 pm

2013-02-17 02:55:00 pm

Viking

Precursor

Fuck it, it's analysis time. Putting this in spoilers because it's spoilers. Writing this as if it's a completely divorced piece of text because I might want to post it in other places when I'm done.

The third season finale of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Magical Mystery Cure, should not have been able to happen in the way that it did. There was way too much in it that didn't make sense. Now, you might be saying "But magic!"

Well, sure. Magic. But that's actually a major part of the issue with the episode.

Because Magic A should be Magic A. The Friendship is Magic 'verse has, in the sixty-four previous episodes, built up a somewhat solid ruleset for how things actually work.

The entire problem with Magical Mystery Cure (from here on referred to only as "MMC") is that it breaks those rules. The only prior occasion when the rules were flagrantly broken involved Discord, a character who is an embodiment of chaos and specifically capable of breaking those rules. When Discord was around, it was obvious the rules were being broken. MMC broke the rules in a much more subtle manner, something that makes me personally suspect that it was originally meant to actually involve Discord - but I digress. Let's look at what the episode actually did.

First off, there's the whole business with the cutie marks. From the earlier episodes, specifically "Cutie Mark Chronicles" and "The Cutie Pox", we have a fairly good understanding of how cutie marks work. A pony recieves his or her cutie mark when they realize their special talent. Not necessarily what they want to do with their lives - but their special talent. Often, the design of the cutie mark can be somewhat esoteric in its relation to the talent, but a cutie mark does not decide what a pony has to do. Instead, it notes something a pony have a special affinity for, something that they can then incorporate in their life goal. In some cases, it's a fairly simple equation - most obviously with Applejack. On the other side of the scale, you have Rainbow Dash, but perhaps most interestingly for this analysis, Rarity. From Cutie Mark Chronicles, we know that Rarity's talent isn't directly related to dressmaking - she was interested in that before she got her cutie mark, and would have continued down that path incorporating her special talent into it no matter what her talent/cutie mark actually turned out to be. Her special talent is directly related to gems, not clothes. Remember this. It will be important later. Additionally, from The Cutie Pox, we can see that the talent/cutie mark relationship goes both ways - when Apple Bloom gets her magically artificial cutie marks, she immediately gains the related talent. Add to this how the cutie mark crusaders go about trying to get their cutie marks - they try to find their special talents. They don't try to find what they want to do with their lives. So, bottom line here - cutie mark/special talent and (for lack of a better term) way of life are two distinct things. In pony society, a vast majority of the population will shape their way of life around their talent, but there's no direct relationship.

Now consider how Rarity acts the first time we see her in MMC. She has Rainbow Dash's cutie mark and is trying to control the weather. She's trying to do Rainbow's job. This makes no sense. Important to note here is that Rarity doesn't actually think she is Rainbow Dash - she merely thinks she has to do what Rainbow Dash usually does. But if we're supposed to think that this is due to her having gained Rainbow's cutie mark, this is where the entire plot crumbles. Rainbow Dash is a pegasus. Pegasi have their innate magic relating to clouds and weather. Rainbow Dash would be on weather duty no matter what her cutie mark was, and Rarity doesn't think she's Rainbow Dash - or even a pegasus at all. Instead, Rarity getting Rainbow's cutie mark should have meant that she now had Rainbow's special talent, which is... fuck if I know what it is, but from watching Cutie Mark Chronicles, we can be sure it has nothing to do with weather, even if the mark is a cloud with a rainbow bolt. Presumably it refers to being "fast as lightning". But since it's only special talents and cutie marks that go hand in hand, and that concept being distinct from what the pony actually does with their life, means that Rarity should only have lost her affinity for gems and gained an affinity for speed - and thus, the result should have been that she would still work with clothes, but with a different spin. Perhaps sportswear, or being the world's fastest dressmaker. She still knows she's Rarity the unicorn.

It follows suit with the others. Rainbow Dash should have gained an affinity for animals, Pinkie Pie an affinity for apples and Fluttershy an affinity for parties. Now, these are the things they actually tried to do in the episode, and they were just bad at it, so you could argue the point about them - but it's when we get to Applejack getting Rarity's cutie mark that everything falls apart again, because Applejack tries to make dresses. Remember: Rarity's talent has nothing at all to do with dresses. Applejack didn't try to do anything that involved gems. She just made bad dresses.

Conclusion one: The cutie mark swapping should have had vastly different effects.

Now, let's look at the event that actually caused the cutie mark shuffling - the spell that Twilight cast, which made the elements of harmony go nuts. And this is where they throw even more rules out the window, because from previous episodes - "Elements of Harmony", "Return of Harmony" and "Keep Calm and Flutter On" - we have an understanding of how the elements actually work, too. They're not just magical powerup artifacts. They're a set of magical artifacts that only when used in conjunction with each other, in harmony, wielded by the ponies that embody the six elements, confer any actual power, and this power has so far always taken the same form, which I'm going to call the rainbow of light because it's an obvious reference to it from the old My Little Pony show. So, the elements are magic, kindness, loyalty, laughter, honesty and generosity. Compare these to the cutie marks/talents of the wielders - magic, animals, speed, fun, apples and gems. Note how not all of these line up with the elements? Magic, obviously. Laughter and fun, of course. Kindness and animals could be argued, but the other three don't have anything in common, especially when you look at how Rarity generally is not generous with her gems. So we can easily see that the elements of harmony are completely distinct from the talents of their wielders. Presumably, the elements attune themselves to the pony that use them for the first time in each "generation" of the elements... but this still does not in any way equate them with their talents. If anything, the shuffling of the elements should have shuffled the... well, the personalities (not the best term, but work with me here) of the element holders. It should not have touched the cutie marks. Rarity should have instead lost her streak of generosity and have become increasingly loyal. Pinkie Pie should have become as reliable as Applejack used to be.

To sum that up, we have three distinct things here. Cutie marks/talents, interests/ways of life, personalities/elements. MMC conflates all of these into one, which goes against just about everything we have learned about them. In light of this, the way they were restored was somewhat sketchy as well. Were they reminded of their talents? Their interests? Were their elements forced back into them? Looking at what happened makes none of these make any fucking sort of sense at all. So the entire business about the shuffled cutie marks shouldn't have worked at any part of the plot, unless Discord had something to do with it. And if the episode had, as I now suspect, been entirely about the cutie mark issue, then it being Discord fooling around again would have been my guess for conclusion of the plot. Apparently we have two more episodes of the plot to go - but right now, it's a trainwreck of everything.

Conclusion two: The cutie mark swapping literally can't have happened like that.

But o ho ho, we're not done yet. No, we have the other controversy of the episode left to dissect - Twilight becoming an alicorn.

Luckily, we know things about alicorns too! Specifically, we know that they're the top tier beings of the 'verse. Ponies with insanely powerful magic. We have three of 'em - Celestia and Luna are physical gods who are literally in command of time and space and have reign over celestial bodies, and Cadance, while not as powerful as Celestia and Luna, is straight up pony cupid (and if we want to assume further, she can manipulate love). This is personal theorycrafting again, but I'm finding it likely that Discord, before he became a Draconequus, was an alicorn as well, presumably with an affinity for chaos magic and this is eventually what caused him to go insane. So we know that alicorns are incredibly powerful. Celestia and Luna are centuries old, and we don't know if they were born alicorns - but they probably were. They have, very clearly, stopped aging. Celestia is definitely the most powerful being in the 'verse, and Luna was on par with her before she got imprisoned. From Twilight's flashbacks in "A Canterlot Wedding", we definitely know that Cadance is still aging at the rate of a normal pony - she seems to be a little older than present time Twilight in the flashbacks. With how she just got married and all she probably isn't going to look forwards to seeing Shining Armour getting old and dying while she just kind of stops aging. Cadance is not a physical god, and I cannot imagine she was not born an alicorn. Luckily, another episode gives us some insight into pony genetics - "Baby Cakes", which shows that two earth ponies can have pegasus and unicorn children. Pony genetics run deep, meaning that it's very likely that somewhere up Cadance's family tree, there was probably an alicorn. Perhaps even Celestia herself, hundreds of years ago. Whatever the case, there's nothing that points towards that it's possible for anyone to become an alicorn after the fact. Even if you could, it's been conclusively shown that alicorns wield epic-level magic.

But here's the thing. We know that Twilight does not have magic anywhere near this level.

Twilight's special talent is magic. This does not imply she has incredibly powerful magic - let's call this quality of magic. What we have seen is that she has been able to learn many new spells, something other unicorns haven't been shown to do - which I'm going to call that her talent is that she has a very high quantity of magic (a high quality would make it easy to get a high quantity - but the other way around does not appear to be true). We only have to go back eight episodes to get the proof, to "Magic Duel". The alicorn amulet artificially confers to Trixie a vastly improved quality of magic, but not entirely physical god levels. She, while wearing the amulet, seems to be at a power level stronger than Cadance, but definitely not anywhere near the level of Celestia and Luna - it doesn't give Trixie alicorn magic, it just boosts her own magic to the extreme. She is capable of casting very powerful spells, and it's implied the most powerful of the repertoire she displays is weather spells and age spells - stuff that would probably be cantrips for Celestia. When Twilight returns for the second duel, to one-up Trixie, she gives the impression of easily casting a series of age spells, and upping the ante with a duplication spell and a gender spell. Trixie comments that nopony can do those spells.

Twilight replies with a confirmation. "Not even me."

The entire aesop of the episode revolves around that Twilight can't do that level of magic on her own. She had to rely on the assistance of her friends to do it - "A different kind of magic", indeed. The elements of harmony would probably have been able to counter the alicorn amulet and disarm Trixie, but they would not have allowed Twilight to actually cast those spells.

Now, we don't actually know how much time has passed between Magic Duel and MMC, but it really doesn't seem to be a lot. We have some clues on how much time has passed from the beginning of the show, and it can't be more than about a year. Whatever the case, there's simply no possible way for Twilight's magic to have improved that much since Magic Duel.

Conclusion three: Twilight doesn't have alicorn-level magic.

So let's put those things together.

1) The effects of the cutie mark swapping can't have happened.
2) The cutie mark swapping can't have happened.
3) Twilight's alicornization can't have happened.

Final conclusion: Magical Mystery Cure can't have happened. At least not in the way it was shown. It breaks too many things established throughout the previous sixty-four episodes. It breaks the entire 'verse. Only two characters have shown the capability to do that before: One is a being of chaos who follows no rules of anything ever and breaks whatever rules there are to break purely for amusement, and the other is Discord.

Fuck it, it's analysis time. Putting this in spoilers because it's spoilers. Writing this as if it's a completely divorced piece of text because I might want to post it in other places when I'm done.

[spoiler="Wall of text because I don't fucking know when to stop"][i]The third season finale of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Magical Mystery Cure, should not have been able to happen in the way that it did.[/i] There was way too much in it that didn't make sense. Now, you might be saying "But magic!"

Well, sure. Magic. But that's actually a major part of the issue with the episode.

Because [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA]Magic A should be Magic A[/url]. The Friendship is Magic 'verse has, in the sixty-four previous episodes, built up a somewhat solid ruleset for how things actually work.

The entire problem with Magical Mystery Cure (from here on referred to only as "MMC") is that it [i]breaks[/i] those rules. The only prior occasion when the rules were flagrantly broken involved Discord, a character who is an embodiment of chaos and specifically capable of breaking those rules. When Discord was around, it was obvious the rules were being broken. MMC broke the rules in a much more subtle manner, something that makes me personally suspect that it was originally meant to actually involve Discord - but I digress. Let's look at what the episode actually did.

First off, there's the whole business with the cutie marks. From the earlier episodes, specifically "Cutie Mark Chronicles" and "The Cutie Pox", we have a fairly good understanding of how cutie marks work. A pony recieves his or her cutie mark when they realize their special talent. Not necessarily what they want to do with their lives - but their special talent. Often, the design of the cutie mark can be somewhat esoteric in its relation to the talent, but [i]a cutie mark does not decide what a pony has to do[/i]. Instead, it notes something a pony have a special affinity for, something that they can then incorporate in their life goal. In some cases, it's a fairly simple equation - most obviously with Applejack. On the other side of the scale, you have Rainbow Dash, but perhaps most interestingly for this analysis, Rarity. From Cutie Mark Chronicles, we know that Rarity's talent isn't directly related to dressmaking - she was interested in that before she got her cutie mark, and would have continued down that path incorporating her special talent into it no matter what her talent/cutie mark actually turned out to be. Her special talent is directly related to [i]gems[/i], not clothes. Remember this. It will be important later. Additionally, from The Cutie Pox, we can see that the talent/cutie mark relationship goes both ways - when Apple Bloom gets her magically artificial cutie marks, she immediately gains the related talent. Add to this how the cutie mark crusaders go about trying to get their cutie marks - they try to find their special talents. They don't try to find what they want to do with their lives. So, bottom line here - [i]cutie mark/special talent and (for lack of a better term) way of life are two distinct things[/i]. In pony society, a vast majority of the population will shape their way of life around their talent, but there's no [i]direct[/i] relationship.

Now consider how Rarity acts the first time we see her in MMC. She has Rainbow Dash's cutie mark and is trying to control the weather. She's trying to do Rainbow's job. [i]This makes no sense[/i]. Important to note here is that Rarity doesn't actually think she is Rainbow Dash - she merely thinks she has to do what Rainbow Dash usually does. But if we're supposed to think that this is due to her having gained Rainbow's cutie mark, [i]this is where the entire plot crumbles[/i]. Rainbow Dash is a pegasus. Pegasi have their innate magic relating to clouds and weather. [i]Rainbow Dash would be on weather duty no matter what her cutie mark was, and Rarity doesn't think she's Rainbow Dash - or even a pegasus at all[/i]. Instead, Rarity getting Rainbow's cutie mark should have meant that [i]she now had Rainbow's special talent[/i], which is... fuck if I know what it is, but from watching Cutie Mark Chronicles, we can be sure it has [i]nothing[/i] to do with weather, even if the mark is a cloud with a rainbow bolt. Presumably it refers to being "fast as lightning". But since it's only special talents and cutie marks that go hand in hand, and that concept being distinct from what the pony actually does with their life, means that Rarity should only have lost her affinity for gems and gained an affinity for speed - and thus, the result should have been that she would still work with clothes, but with a different spin. Perhaps sportswear, or being the world's fastest dressmaker. [i]She still knows she's Rarity the unicorn[/i].

It follows suit with the others. Rainbow Dash should have gained an affinity for animals, Pinkie Pie an affinity for apples and Fluttershy an affinity for parties. Now, these are the things they actually tried to do in the episode, and they were just bad at it, so you could argue the point about them - but it's when we get to Applejack getting Rarity's cutie mark that everything falls apart again, because Applejack tries to make dresses. Remember: [i]Rarity's talent has nothing at all to do with dresses[/i]. Applejack didn't try to do anything that involved gems. She just made bad dresses.

Conclusion one: [i]The cutie mark swapping should have had vastly different effects[/i].

Now, let's look at the event that actually caused the cutie mark shuffling - the spell that Twilight cast, which made the elements of harmony go nuts. And this is where they throw even more rules out the window, because from previous episodes - "Elements of Harmony", "Return of Harmony" and "Keep Calm and Flutter On" - we have an understanding of how the elements actually work, too. They're not just magical powerup artifacts. They're a set of magical artifacts that only when used in conjunction with each other, in harmony, wielded by the ponies that embody the six elements, confer any actual power, and this power has so far always taken the same form, which I'm going to call the rainbow of light because it's an obvious reference to it from the old My Little Pony show. So, the elements are magic, kindness, loyalty, laughter, honesty and generosity. Compare these to the cutie marks/talents of the wielders - magic, animals, speed, fun, apples and gems. Note how not all of these line up with the elements? Magic, obviously. Laughter and fun, of course. Kindness and animals could be argued, but the other three don't have anything in common, especially when you look at how Rarity generally is [i]not[/i] generous with her gems. So we can easily see that [i]the elements of harmony are completely distinct from the talents of their wielders[/i]. Presumably, the elements attune themselves to the pony that use them for the first time in each "generation" of the elements... but this still does not in any way equate them with their talents. If anything, the shuffling of the elements should have shuffled the... well, the personalities (not the best term, but work with me here) of the element holders. It should not have touched the cutie marks. Rarity should have instead lost her streak of generosity and have become increasingly loyal. Pinkie Pie should have become as reliable as Applejack used to be.

To sum that up, we have three distinct things here. Cutie marks/talents, interests/ways of life, personalities/elements. [i]MMC conflates all of these into one, which goes against just about everything we have learned about them.[/i] In light of this, the way they were restored was somewhat sketchy as well. Were they reminded of their talents? Their interests? Were their elements forced back into them? Looking at what happened makes none of these make any fucking sort of sense at all. So the entire business about the shuffled cutie marks shouldn't have worked at [i]any[/i] part of the plot, [i]unless[/i] Discord had something to do with it. And if the episode had, as I now suspect, been entirely about the cutie mark issue, then it being Discord fooling around again would have been my guess for conclusion of the plot. Apparently we have two more episodes of the plot to go - but right now, it's a trainwreck of everything.

Conclusion two: [i]The cutie mark swapping literally can't have happened like that[/i].

But o ho ho, we're not done yet. No, we have the other controversy of the episode left to dissect - Twilight becoming an alicorn.

Luckily, we know things about alicorns too! Specifically, we know that they're the top tier beings of the 'verse. Ponies with insanely powerful magic. We have three of 'em - Celestia and Luna are physical gods who are literally in command of time and space and have reign over celestial bodies, and Cadance, while not as powerful as Celestia and Luna, is straight up pony cupid (and if we want to assume further, she can [i]manipulate love[/i]). This is personal theorycrafting again, but I'm finding it likely that Discord, before he became a Draconequus, was an alicorn as well, presumably with an affinity for chaos magic and this is eventually what caused him to go insane. So we know that alicorns are [i]incredibly powerful[/i]. Celestia and Luna are centuries old, and we don't know if they were born alicorns - but they probably were. They have, very clearly, stopped aging. Celestia is definitely the most powerful being in the 'verse, and Luna was on par with her before she got imprisoned. From Twilight's flashbacks in "A Canterlot Wedding", we definitely know that Cadance is still aging at the rate of a normal pony - she seems to be a little older than present time Twilight in the flashbacks. With how she just got married and all she probably isn't going to look forwards to seeing Shining Armour getting old and dying while she just kind of stops aging. Cadance is [i]not[/i] a physical god, and I cannot imagine she was not born an alicorn. Luckily, another episode gives us some insight into pony genetics - "Baby Cakes", which shows that two earth ponies can have pegasus and unicorn children. Pony genetics run [i]deep[/i], meaning that it's very likely that somewhere up Cadance's family tree, there was probably an alicorn. Perhaps even Celestia herself, hundreds of years ago. Whatever the case, there's nothing that points towards that it's possible for anyone to [i]become[/i] an alicorn after the fact. Even if you could, it's been conclusively shown that alicorns wield epic-level magic.

But here's the thing. [i]We know that Twilight does not have magic anywhere near this level.[/i]

Twilight's special talent is magic. This does not imply she has incredibly powerful magic - let's call this [i]quality[/i] of magic. What we have seen is that she has been able to learn many new spells, something other unicorns haven't been shown to do - which I'm going to call that her talent is that she has a very high [i]quantity[/i] of magic (a high quality would make it easy to get a high quantity - but the other way around does not appear to be true). We only have to go back eight episodes to get the proof, to "Magic Duel". The alicorn amulet artificially confers to Trixie a vastly improved quality of magic, but not entirely physical god levels. She, while wearing the amulet, seems to be at a power level stronger than Cadance, but definitely not anywhere near the level of Celestia and Luna - it doesn't give Trixie alicorn magic, it just boosts her own magic to the extreme. She is capable of casting very powerful spells, and it's implied the most powerful of the repertoire she displays is weather spells and age spells - stuff that would probably be cantrips for Celestia. When Twilight returns for the second duel, to one-up Trixie, she gives the impression of easily casting a series of age spells, and upping the ante with a duplication spell and a gender spell. Trixie comments that nopony can do those spells.

Twilight replies with a confirmation. [i]"Not even me."[/i]

The entire aesop of the episode revolves around that [i]Twilight can't do that level of magic on her own[/i]. She had to rely on the assistance of her friends to do it - [i]"A different kind of magic"[/i], indeed. The elements of harmony would probably have been able to counter the alicorn amulet and disarm Trixie, but they would [i]not[/i] have allowed Twilight to actually cast those spells.

Now, we don't actually know how much time has passed between Magic Duel and MMC, but it really doesn't seem to be a lot. We have some clues on how much time has passed from the beginning of the show, and it can't be more than about a year. Whatever the case, there's simply no possible way for Twilight's magic to have improved that much since Magic Duel.

Conclusion three: [i]Twilight doesn't have alicorn-level magic[/i].

So let's put those things together.

1) The effects of the cutie mark swapping can't have happened.
2) The cutie mark swapping can't have happened.
3) Twilight's alicornization can't have happened.

Final conclusion: [b]Magical Mystery Cure can't have happened[/b]. At least not in the way it was shown. It breaks too many things established throughout the previous sixty-four episodes. It breaks the entire 'verse. Only two characters have shown the capability to do that before: One is a being of chaos who follows no rules of anything ever and breaks whatever rules there are to break purely for amusement, and the other is Discord.[/spoiler]

tomatobob

2013-02-17 04:28:36 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

But dude she finished writing a spell, that's pro tier magic stuff!

Also please be sure to copy any brony rage posts over here! I bet there are some pretty funny posts about that episode!

Quote from KennyMan666:

Only two characters have shown the capability to do that before: One is a being of chaos who follows no rules of anything ever and breaks whatever rules there are to break purely for amusement, and the other is Discord.

Hahahaha. This actually took me a second.

Turtle

2013-02-17 06:10:37 pm

I like turtles.

Poision Envy

2013-02-17 06:17:11 pm

Club 27 Goals

Hahahahahaha.

that Finale.

hahahaha.

oh god.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 01:29:40 pm

2013-02-18 01:29:31 pm

Viking

Precursor

Posted my analysis in a let's just say more active place and have gotten enough comments to craft a part two because no sense have been made of the episode yet. So that will be a thing in a few days.

tomatobob

2013-02-18 06:04:21 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Post the best comments here do it do it so it!

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 06:22:10 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 06:21:21 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 06:16:54 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 06:13:53 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-02-18 06:10:22 pm

2013-02-18 06:09:24 pm

Viking

Precursor

Well, there wasn't really anything that amusing, no raging about it... I guess "Am I the only one who thinks whoever made this page is either thinking about this too hard or its thinly-veiled nagging about the decision to turn Twilight into a princess?" would be the only one worth actually sharing at the moment. And I freely admit to thinking about it too hard.

I was halfway through writing a thing about cutie marks when I realized I was arguing against myself. I'm gonna have to think this through a little more because while cutie marks can be esoteric, I don't quite buy into the theory that in a cutie mark lies the entire destiny/self of a pony.

Speaking of cutie marks, someone pointed out that after the... event... Twilight's cutie mark gained a star. This has implications and I don't like them.

Oh, and I gave the analysis its own page so it would have a permanent home that wasn't a post on the 49th page of a pony topic on a Metroid forum past its prime (get it?).

Well, there wasn't really anything that amusing, no raging about it... I guess "Am I the only one who thinks whoever made this page is either thinking about this too hard or its thinly-veiled nagging about the decision to turn Twilight into a princess?" would be the only one worth actually sharing at the moment. And I freely admit to thinking about it too hard.

I was halfway through writing a thing about cutie marks when I realized I was arguing against myself. I'm gonna have to think this through a little more because while cutie marks can be esoteric, I don't quite buy into the theory that in a cutie mark lies the entire destiny/self of a pony.

Speaking of cutie marks, someone pointed out that after the... event... Twilight's cutie mark [i]gained a star[/i]. This has implications and I don't like them.

Oh, and I gave the analysis [url=http://kenny.next-era.net/s3e13.html]its own page[/url] so it would have a permanent home that wasn't a post on the 49th page of a pony topic on a Metroid forum past its prime ([i]get it?[/i]).

tomatobob

2013-02-18 06:21:40 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh that's disappointing, I was hoping the general Brony reaction would be more fun. They are just disappointment machines aren't they? Sad

tomatobob

2013-02-19 08:47:57 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

If I can realpost/editorialize for a minute, I actually sort of love the finale for basically every reason Kenny brings up because the only people that would care or be bothered by any of that are Bronies. In part because "Haha suck it Bronies!" but mostly because the thing that gets lost in the whole Brony bullshit, under all of the "Ew creepy" I always got this sense of them trying to take ownership of the show. "It's not just for little girls, there's plenty of jokes for us! We're like, 90% of the fanbase, Hasbro should be appeal to Bronies!" Also the term Brony in the first place. I didn't like the straight up Derpy Hooves shoutout last season for the same reason. For all their nonsense about being ~open minded~ and ~accepting~ they spend a lot of time trying to justify the show as something other than a simple children's cartoon, as though appreciating the technical and artistic aspects on their own merits just isn't good enough. They have to try worm their way into the show itself, picking episodes apart to work out every possible way that the show could be referencing them. They need the show to be catering to them to prove the rest of the internet wrong, that it is not a pony cartoon for girls but a pony cartoon for men. And that's stupid.

It's fine to like the show, it's a fun, well animated, happy, positive little cartoon, the writing is generally solid and the main characters are well defined. Those are all good reasons to enjoy it. Because it has jokes that are totally meant for adults man is not a good reason, those are there to keep mom and dad watching with their child from killing themselves. It is time honored tradition of children's programming, if that's what you're there for there are far better sources. Those are the shows meant for you. This one, as is the way of children's programming, is at its best when it is concerned only with presenting the best possible product under a basic "What is Acceptable for Children?" rule set and ended with a few words about the importance of the aspect of social relationships that happened to be the theme for the week. There were many points during this season where it felt as though the writers just didn't know where to go, like they were trying to balance Brony appeal with making a quality show.

The finale came off very much like some Brony's fanfiction, it didn't really make sense had a bunch of what amounted to body swapping, and used the term Alicorn to describe a type of pony. It was only the second time that term had been used at all in the show as far as I recall and the only other place I'd heard it was in one of PEnvy's posts here long before that in reference to some fan thing so I'm sure when it first came up in the show a bunch of bronies lost it like they did with the Derpy thing at the thought of vindication and probably lost it again when Twilight was referred to as such. It was probably a dream come true for many of them, some will be confused and/or frustrated, others will be mad. It will be dissected and debated in the dark corners of the internet for entirely too long and all the while the actual target audience is stoked that Twilight's a Princess. And that's hilarious.

TL;DR Let the kids have their show, Bronies. Children's programming is often dire enough as it is and young girls especially don't need you making one of the few shows they have that isn't about how they should aspire to be a pretty princess waiting for her handsome prince while trying on her endless supply of new clothes and jewelery about you.

If I can realpost/editorialize for a minute, I actually sort of love the finale for basically every reason Kenny brings up because the only people that would care or be bothered by any of that are Bronies. In part because "Haha suck it Bronies!" but mostly because the thing that gets lost in the whole Brony bullshit, under all of the "Ew creepy" I always got this sense of them trying to take ownership of the show. "It's not [i]just[/i] for little girls, there's plenty of jokes for us! We're like, 90% of the fanbase, Hasbro should be appeal to Bronies!" Also the term Brony in the first place. I didn't like the straight up Derpy Hooves shoutout last season for the same reason. For all their nonsense about being ~open minded~ and ~accepting~ they spend a lot of time trying to justify the show as something other than a simple children's cartoon, as though appreciating the technical and artistic aspects on their own merits just isn't good enough. They have to try worm their way into the show itself, picking episodes apart to work out every possible way that the show could be referencing them. They [i]need[/i] the show to be catering to them to prove the rest of the internet wrong, that it is not a pony cartoon for girls but a pony cartoon for[i] men[/i]. And that's stupid.

It's fine to like the show, it's a fun, well animated, happy, positive little cartoon, the writing is generally solid and the main characters are well defined. Those are all good reasons to enjoy it. Because it has jokes that are totally meant for adults man is not a good reason, those are there to keep mom and dad watching with their child from killing themselves. It is time honored tradition of children's programming, if that's what you're there for there are far better sources. Those are the shows meant for you. This one, as is the way of children's programming, is at its best when it is concerned only with presenting the best possible product under a basic "What is Acceptable for Children?" rule set and ended with a few words about the importance of the aspect of social relationships that happened to be the theme for the week. There were many points during this season where it felt as though the writers just didn't know where to go, like they were trying to balance Brony appeal with making a quality show.

The finale came off very much like some Brony's fanfiction, it didn't really make sense  had a bunch of what amounted to body swapping, and used the term Alicorn to describe a type of pony. It was only the second time that term had been used at all in the show as far as I recall and the only other place I'd heard it was in one of PEnvy's posts here long before that in reference to some fan thing so I'm sure when it first came up in the show a bunch of bronies lost it like they did with the Derpy thing at the thought of vindication and probably lost it again when Twilight was referred to as such. It was probably a dream come true for many of them, some will be confused and/or frustrated, others will be mad. It will be dissected and debated in the dark corners of the internet for entirely too long and all the while the actual target audience is stoked that Twilight's a Princess. And that's hilarious.

TL;DR Let the kids have their show, Bronies. Children's programming is often dire enough as it is and young girls especially don't need you making one of the few shows they have that isn't about how they should aspire to be a pretty princess waiting for her handsome prince while trying on her endless supply of new clothes and jewelery about you.

KennyMan666

2013-02-19 09:47:01 am

Viking

Precursor

Well, yeah. I mean, it's not like it's a secret that My Little Pony as a cartoon exists only to push the toyline, but it feels like this is the first time that it's the toys that call the shots. At least I'm guessing that if Hasbro didn't have a Princess Twilight toyline on the way that they wanted to create hype for, this plot would have concluded differently.

The deal with alicorns automagically being princesses and all princesses being alicorns kind of rub me the wrong way, even ignoring the part where that's really not how royalty works. What's Twilight the princess of anyway? Maybe it's just me but I don't see her being much of a ruler. She should have graduated to royal grand wizard or whatever the hell position Starswirl the Bearded had back in his day.

Poision Envy

2013-02-19 02:50:17 pm

Club 27 Goals

The best thin about Twilight turning into an Alicorn for a season finale is they now have 8 months to sell the twilight Alicorn toys before reversing it in the next season's opening episodes.

Poision Envy

2013-02-19 02:55:48 pm

Club 27 Goals

Btw Kenny I like that last bit in your page talking about the only two people that can break the universe.

And yeah Tbob nails it too. I could probably type up a few pages but I'd just e repeating stuff

Turtle

2013-03-02 04:29:16 pm

I like turtles.

http://truttle.tumblr.com/post/44397625326

Poision Envy

2013-03-03 01:49:49 pm

Club 27 Goals

Quote from Turtle:

http://truttle.tumblr.com/post/44397625326

this pleases me

Turtle

2013-03-03 11:30:09 pm

I like turtles.

:>

I thought it turned out pretty well.

Also you could help give the YouTube version hits so ~~Senpai~~ Sherclop will notice me.

tomatobob

2013-03-04 03:34:56 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Why would you want to be noticed by a thing called sherclop.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-03-04 06:05:33 am

KennyMan666: 2013-03-04 06:04:16 am

KennyMan666: 2013-03-04 06:01:30 am

2013-03-04 06:00:00 am

Viking

Precursor

The fuck

No, seriously, the fuck

The previous image had me neutral about it, but if that's what they're going to look like with wings and cutie marks on their faces, I now am losing hope. I was planning on going into it on a completely neutral level and hoping for it to be silly enough to be enjoyable, but... yeah.

The concept of having the hair be that long to give a tail imagery is kind of cute though but really doesn't fit all of them. It works for Rarity and Applejack and Fluttershy but looks weird as all hell on Rainbow and Twilight. I can't make ANY sense out of how Rainbow's hair is even supposed to work there.

Still gonna watch it though. Hell, we should groupwatch it when it hits. (I'm still not sure if it's supposed to be a straight-to-DVD movie or an entire spinoff series, but...)

tomatobob

2013-03-04 06:26:43 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

tomatobob

2013-03-04 06:37:10 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

God yeah, Rainbow's hair is a clusterfuck. She and Twilight have an issue where it looks like her hair is cut around waist length, except for this chunk in the middle that just goes on like some Rapunzel shit. rainbow has an added bonus of looking like she's got a double ponytail which is hilarious.

Also AJ would totally be wearing jeans and not a skirt way to character design, yall!

Poision Envy

2013-03-05 06:28:06 am

Club 27 Goals

Haaaaaahahahahaa, holy shit those characters.

I just can't even.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-03-23 08:06:16 pm

2013-03-23 08:06:01 pm

Viking

Precursor

And in other news, here's some cross-community funtimes.

tomatobob

2013-03-23 08:27:57 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Goodness.

The guy wrote enough to make me think it's a fake post, but it's also deviant art.

Goodness.