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Tahngarthor
2007-09-16 11:03:14 pm
Bangaa Bishop
these control panels, like the one that pevents you from accessing the map station on the pirate homeworld, that have a ring of buttons around the outside- Is it possible to operate these by guessing/getting lucky? or is the visor an absolute requirement?
Thread title: 
GreenMamba
2007-09-16 11:22:07 pm
What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.
The visor is absolutely required.  The positioning of the buttons is entirely random.
the wicked child
2007-09-16 11:29:16 pm
Quote from GreenMamba:
The visor is absolutely required.  The positioning of the buttons is entirely random.


And just to make sure there was no way anyone could guess, they shift the buttons around each time you press one.
arkarian
2007-09-16 11:34:41 pm
red chamber dream
I wonder if it's possible to guess by pure luck? Or would it just not go through if you're not using the Visor?
sp unit 262
2007-09-16 11:44:30 pm
Even if they didn't have any artificial prevention, the odds of getting it right are astronomical. And I bet that they do have artificial blocks in the way, because they have artificial block to operating the spin dial thing that need X-Ray.
arkarian
2007-09-16 11:53:01 pm
red chamber dream
Of course the odds against it are huge, which is why I'm interested in knowing whether or not they bothered with a block. Too bad there's virtually no way of knowing.
SkippyJr
2007-09-17 12:40:30 pm
Between the visor and the next upgrade, I think there is a place where you use both the visor and your arm cannon where you spin and lock 3 ring segments.  I tested the one in the golem's head in Grand Court with and without the visor.  You can easily see the four flaps at the end of your arm cannon with the visor to be able to mimic the movements without.  I have been unable to activate it.
Tahngarthor
2007-09-17 01:11:57 pm
Bangaa Bishop
Quote from SkippyJr:
Between the visor and the next upgrade, I think there is a place where you use both the visor and your arm cannon where you spin and lock 3 ring segments.  I tested the one in the golem's head in Grand Court with and without the visor.  You can easily see the four flaps at the end of your arm cannon with the visor to be able to mimic the movements without.  I have been unable to activate it.


You cant interact with it without the visor on. The control panels, however, you can. Problem is, even if you manage to guess right, it randomizes after each press. so you essentially have a 1 in 8 * 7 *6 *5 = 1 in 1680 chance to guess it right.
nate
2007-09-17 01:27:45 pm
unless the random is broken, of course.
BlueGlass
2007-09-17 02:18:58 pm
Quote from Tahngarthor:
Quote from SkippyJr:
Between the visor and the next upgrade, I think there is a place where you use both the visor and your arm cannon where you spin and lock 3 ring segments.  I tested the one in the golem's head in Grand Court with and without the visor.  You can easily see the four flaps at the end of your arm cannon with the visor to be able to mimic the movements without.  I have been unable to activate it.


You cant interact with it without the visor on.

You actually can interact with them, you just can't activate them.  Also, the only one of those you have to use is on the door trapping you in the Nova Beam room.
kip
2007-09-17 02:56:57 pm
Putting aside the chances of getting the sequence right, how do you know that it even registers the symbol you pick without the visor?

Notice when you pick one, it doesn't tell you the symbol. It just shows a blank square. So maybe the "blank square" is considered an additional symbol, thus ensuring you get it wrong every time no matter what you actually picked.

None of it matters until you don't have to use any of those twisting xray things. Then there are those xray creatures on the way to ridley.. and ridley himself.
Aruki
2007-09-17 03:33:08 pm
Quote from kip:
Then there are those xray creatures on the way to ridley..


They can be quite easily bypassed.

http://files.filefront.com/Early+Pirate+Homeworld+Sedmp4/;8571385;/fileinfo.html

(it's around the end of the video)
Mr. Aran
2007-09-17 07:33:08 pm
everybody knows it's true
If the order is switched per run saved, then you can make an extra file, progress to the different control panels, mesmorize the sequences, and play them out in a run file.

If it changes every time you go in the control panel room, then disregard me.

Gogogo, MP3 owners!
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 07:39:09 pm
I've noticed that sometimes the buttons like to follow a certain pattern: One -  of the middle vertical ones, Two -  nearly directly across from it, Three - Back next to the first one, Four - Next to the second one. I've seen it happen on several terminals at random times, so I don't know if it's a coincidence or not. But seeing as there are only eight panels to choose from there's not too many options in general.

Not sure if that will help at all or if I'm really stretching for this. Has anyone else caught this pattern before though?
BlueGlass
2007-09-17 07:42:04 pm
Also, Ridley's weak spot in phase 2 can be hit without the visor.  So if there really is a theoretical possibility of sloving the code entry panels without the visor, the only thing blocking a skip would be the phasite door that seals you in the Nova Beam room.
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 07:48:24 pm
You're able to hit the two armor pieces inside of Ridley without bringing up the X-Ray visor? Never knew that one...

And there are how many unskippable terminals?
- X-Ray Visor Room (Leads out of room)
- Leading to the PH Map (Leads to PH Research Site)
- The Leviathan Codes (Leads to Phaaze)

Any others?
arkarian
2007-09-17 07:50:52 pm
red chamber dream
I thinking SWs could solve X-Ray Visor eventually. Too bad that seems like the only way, though...
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 07:55:10 pm
Spiderball seems like the more likely skip, since we only need it twice during an any/low% run:

Defense Access (PH Command) - Leads to Transit Station 4
Main Lift (PH Mines) - Leads to the Spinners in the room

If we were able to skip it, we wouldn't even need to worry about the Spiderball puzzle on Elysia because we wouldn't even go there.
BlueGlass
2007-09-17 08:11:26 pm
Quote from Prime Hunter:
And there are how many unskippable terminals?
- X-Ray Visor Room (Leads out of room)
- Leading to the PH Map (Leads to PH Research Site)
- The Leviathan Codes (Leads to Phaaze)

Any others?

the one in scrapvault or whatever it's called
the one in the room where you get Nova
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 08:24:54 pm
Wasn't counting the Nova Beam one since that's not a terminal, but it is still an obstacle against X-Ray so I guess it should be included. (And doesn't that also add in the barrier leading to Command Station in front of the Nova door, or can we hit those targets without X-Ray on?) But I do remember the Scrapvault one now, since it's needed to get to Gandrayda and the Grapple Voltage.

So that's FIVE/SIX places where X-Ray is a requirement, and only TWO for the Spiderball. Either way it'd be tough to bypass all of that concerning either item.
Aruki
2007-09-17 08:36:50 pm
You can hit the targets behind the Phazite wall after Nova Beam without X-ray being on, but after that you need to use a terminal thing to be able to access the terminal that requires X-ray. The only way we'll be skipping X-ray is to skip Nova, which is really only being stopped by A) the green door on the Valhalla and B) Omega Ridley. I don't think an X-ray skip is even worth looking into unless you can at least find a way to get the Pirate code without it.
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 09:04:20 pm
And unless we can find some incredible way to get a lot of height in the first Spiderball shaft leading to the Nova Beam, I think we can forget about skipping that as well. I'm looking at that room right now and I can't forsee any way outside of using Secret Worlds to get up there. (Could be a good use of SW#4 in Skyway Access!)
BlueGlass
2007-09-17 09:10:39 pm
Except for that we'd need Hazard Shield, which requires spiderball.
Aruki
2007-09-17 09:13:13 pm
SW4 might end up being useful for skipping Spider Ball, Nova Beam, and Hyper Grapple. A 3% drop by skipping those outweighs the 1% drop by skipping Hazard Shield.
Prime Hunter
2007-09-17 09:33:32 pm
Hadn't thought about that part of it, concering the Hazard Shield I mean. But I can't see how SW4 would lead to skipping those items, unless you mean it would give us access to the Leviathan so we could imput the codes somehow. (But if that's the case, how would we get out?)

On a related note, I'm wondering if there's a possible Secret World in the Main Lift now that I'm playing around in there. I can see a circular opening right above the entrance, directly across from the Spiderball track. I've tried boosting towards it from the track, but I don't have enough distance to get to the other side before I am dropping down a bit. And I can't find a good enough place to BSJ from in order to get some more height to try and get in there that way.