21% Topic

2004-11-12 06:05:33 pm

From what I've seen, the HBJ gains about half a morph ball's worth of height. Suffice to say, it's the highest bomb jump yet :P. GameCube04 had a video showing him leaving the Central Dynamo with an HBJ, a feat that requires a TBJM to accomplish otherwise.

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-12 07:06:46 pm

Monitor station looks possibly interesting. No celing at least.

I've been jumping around by the door to warrior shrine and found a foothold or two that probably isn't going to go anywhere. And straight across the room from there is a scan point which also probably won't be useful for anything.

There's a LOT of invisible rocks up there. It looks like there's ledges all over the place, but there sure isn't.

Incidentally, how does one get to Warrior Shrine without space jump or boost?

Ekarderif

2004-11-12 07:09:10 pm

I believe you get on top of the computer that you normally l-lock spring from and dash-jump from a puffer.

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-12 07:34:54 pm

Dandy.

Now I'm screwing with burning trail, which also has no celing in the long vertical shaft bit.

Maybe one could... bomb jump from root to root? >_>

if only there were a niche to get stuck in to get an infinite bomb jump going.

I almost can. There's all kinds of 90 degree angles in that room, and they slow your fall quite a bit, but... not enough for an IBJ!

Of course, since you can start pretty high up from the door to the elevator, maybe all you need is for your decent to be slowed JUST enough to get some kind of... tbj, that goes really high, or something.

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-12 08:01:34 pm

I can stand on this lamp thingy which is higher than the door.

But then I just bump into the roots above me.

Look at those roots. I'm sure you could stand on them and there must be a space there large enough for samus to fit through. Or at least large enough for a morph ball to bomb through, then unmorph once you're through and stand on the roots.

If you could just stand on those roots I bet you'd be home free. Just jump over the wall and out of the map.

Of course, if someone wants to confirm this with an AR, by maybe, hopping around as a morph ball, seeing if you can get through those roots, seeing if you can stand on them, and seeing if you can jump outside the map from there, that'd be super. I'd hate to be working on something that was a waste of time.

Yeah.

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-12 09:46:12 pm

Is someone with an AR going to test burning trail for possibilities? I'm not going to keep jumping around here until someone does.

I forgot my password to the samus.co.uk forums or I'd ask there. I bet there's AR peoples there.

Phazon Siphon

2004-11-12 10:41:41 pm

Quote from Sesshoumaru:

Is someone with an AR going to test burning trail for possibilities? I'm not going to keep jumping around here until someone does.

I forgot my password to the samus.co.uk forums or I'd ask there. I bet there's AR peoples there.

I'll ask for you...

EDIT:

Quote from Phazon Siphon:

Sess wants to know if you can use AR to get out of burning trail, because he thinks that he can make it out if he bomb jumps root to root.

BTW, he's trying to get out of the ceiling of the long vertical shaft with the moving platforms, coming from the Chozo Ruins...

Quote from BoostR:

Nope. There's a ceiling there, all the way around. No openings.

BoostR

2004-11-12 11:35:30 pm

XD

Just e-mail Mills...

And save the password. Rolling Eyes

Quite funny to watch you go through what we did MONTHS ago. Here's some stuff about Magmoor you might find helpful-

Burning Trail-there is no possible way to get out. Numerous people, including myself, have used moonjump while in morph ball mode, and found that there just aren't any holes in those roots. Just because you can shoot through something, doesn't mean you can go through it. :?

Monitor Station-It would be a SW'ers dream to find one here. Kinda like finding a trick in Geo Core to raise all the platforms without boost. Needless to say, I'm convinvced that it's impossible to get out of this room. Regardless of what you may think from appearance, there are only four high ledges above Warrior Shrine's door. One is right next to it-a very long thin one in the rock. Jump to the right of the door. The second-a dash jump from the tall gray thing's top will land you here. Use the red crystals as a target. But there's nowhere to go from either of these two places. The other two ledges are at the top. One is a giant COMPLETELY flat rock you've probably already noticed. It's far too high to reach. The other is at the very top where you could simply space jump out of the room. And of course, it's not even near the flat rock. Evil or Very Mad

There are places to stand along the top of the room, but I don't count those. In short, I really don't think anyone has a chance of getting out of there. Although, feel free to prove me wrong. I'd like that to happen. Maybe if someone found a way to jump off of frozen pirates, then be insane enough to line them up.... *shudder*

Workstation-I think the most potential is here. SW31, discovered by me, lies in this very room. But I still say an uber well done ubjm would make it over that wave beam door-the walls above those rocks are small. If it doesn't, there really isn't anywhere else... :?
Also note that the invisible ceiling extends from the door to PM to the...second or third highest wire platform. Although, it's an odd shape. It's actually the shortest near the middle of the room, and longest on the side of the wire platforms. o_O

XD

Just e-mail Mills...

And save the password. :roll:

Quite funny to watch you go through what we did MONTHS ago.  Here's some stuff about Magmoor you might find helpful-

Burning Trail-there is no possible way to get out.  Numerous people, including myself, have used moonjump while in morph ball mode, and found that there just aren't any holes in those roots.  Just because you can shoot through something, doesn't mean you can go through it. :?

Monitor Station-It would be a SW'ers dream to find one here.  Kinda like finding a trick in Geo Core to raise all the platforms without boost.  Needless to say, I'm convinvced that it's impossible to get out of this room.  Regardless of what you may think from appearance, there are only four high ledges above Warrior Shrine's door.  One is right next to it-a very long thin one in the rock.  Jump to the right of the door.  The second-a dash jump from the tall gray thing's top will land you here.  Use the red crystals as a target.  But there's nowhere to go from either of these two places.  The other two ledges are at the top.  One is a giant COMPLETELY flat rock you've probably already noticed.  It's far too high to reach.  The other is at the very top where you could simply space jump out of the room.  And of course, it's not even near the flat rock. :evil:   There are places to stand along the top of the room, but I don't count those.  In short, I really don't think anyone has a chance of getting out of there.  Although, feel free to prove me wrong.  I'd like that to happen.  Maybe if someone found a way to jump off of frozen pirates, then be insane enough to line them up.... *shudder*

Workstation-I think the most potential is here.  SW31, discovered by me, lies in this very room.  But I still say an uber well done ubjm would make it over that wave beam door-the walls above those rocks are small.  If it doesn't, there really isn't anywhere else... :?
Also note that the invisible ceiling extends from the door to PM to the...second or third highest wire platform.  Although, it's an odd shape.  It's actually the shortest near the middle of the room, and longest on the side of the wire platforms. o_O

DJGrenola

2004-11-12 11:46:34 pm

I was just about to post that there was a bit of a competition going on at SCU to find a Magmoor SW for some considerable time, as there are a glut of the damn things everywhere else. Whilst I don't wish to sound defeatist, Magmoor has been the focus of hardcore SW attention for ages and even with space jump, the undeniably tricky Workstation is the only SW that's ever been found there. :(

Yoshi348

2004-11-13 12:46:45 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Figures everyone wants to be the one to crack 21%. Of course, that's a GOOD thing... :)

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-13 12:59:36 am

Finally some information. Thanks folks. It sounds daunting, but knowing what won't work is just another step to finding what will, says I.

Too bad you can't get in a secret world in another area and stay there when you go to Magmoor.

alright, so monitor station, though there's no useful ledges, does have an open ceiling and if one magically got high enough, there'd be no problem jumping out of the map

and workstation has an invisible celing over a chunk of the room, and you're suggesting that one, while at the wave door, tries to bomb jump up and over the rocks above the wave door?

Now I know you've said shoot through and pass through doesn't necessarily equate, but I'm inclined to still trust what the power beams show somewhat

I notice that, well I'll explain in terms of rock lumps. Above the wave door (at the top of the wall) there's 2 rock lumps side by side for example (I will call the left one Fred and the right one Barney). I notice that the power beam says both those rock lumps go up a lot higher than they look like they go. There's a fair chunk of invisible rock lump before they actually stop.

Now the rock lump to the right of Barney (which I will call Bosephus) also has a good chunk of invisible rock above it

But between Barney and Bosephus, my power beam seems to be able to go through somewhat.

Now what I want to know is if that wedge of non-rock is enough to fit a morph ball through. Can you confirm that, if I were a morph ball, I could make it through at that spot lower than at any other spot near there?

If so, I'm still thinking a stand alone HBJm wouldn't quite make it up there, HOWEVER, perhaps one could press up against the wall, and do a ghetto HBJm of some sort (which would require totally re-vamping the timing for HBJ probably) and maybe that would make it?

Still, I'll want AR confirmation that a ball can squeeze between Barney and Bosephus before I commit any time to trying it.

Finally some information.  Thanks folks.  It sounds daunting,  but knowing what won't work is just another step to finding what will, says I.

Too bad you can't get in a secret world in another area and stay there when you go to Magmoor.

alright, so monitor station, though there's no useful ledges, does have an open ceiling and if one magically got high enough, there'd be no problem jumping out of the map

and workstation has an invisible celing over a chunk of the room, and you're suggesting that one, while at the wave door, tries to bomb jump up and over the rocks above the wave door?

Now I know you've said shoot through and pass through doesn't necessarily equate, but I'm inclined to still trust what the power beams show somewhat

I notice that, well I'll explain in terms of rock lumps.  Above the wave door (at the top of the wall)  there's 2 rock lumps side by side for example  (I will call the left one Fred and the right one Barney).  I notice that the power beam says both those rock lumps go up a lot higher than they look like they go.  There's a fair chunk of invisible rock lump before they actually stop.

Now the rock lump to the right of Barney (which I will call Bosephus) also has a good chunk of invisible rock above it

But between Barney and Bosephus, my power beam seems to be able to go through somewhat.

Now what I want to know is if that wedge of non-rock is enough to fit a morph ball through.  Can you confirm that, if I were a morph ball, I could make it through at that spot lower than at any other spot near there?

If so, I'm still thinking a stand alone HBJm wouldn't quite make it up there, HOWEVER, perhaps one could press up against the wall, and do a ghetto HBJm of some sort (which would require totally re-vamping the timing for HBJ probably) and maybe that would make it?

Still, I'll want AR confirmation that a ball can squeeze between Barney and Bosephus before I commit any time to trying it.

GameCube04

2004-11-13 01:05:18 am

Quote from GameCube04:

Maybe the H could stand for high or horizontal, depending on what you're doing. It would make more sense to call it a "high bomb jump" when it's being done on a wall or something.

Quote from Ekarderif:

Ah, the magical "horizontal" bomb jump has been renamed to the high bomb jump as nobody has been able to ladder it.

Ah, I was unaware that the name change was official... I guess this means I've actually coined an MP term. Cool. :D We should try to come up with a different name for the HBJ/DBJ... it just doesn't sound that good.

Quote from Ekarderif:

GameCube04 had a video showing him leaving the Central Dynamo with an HBJ, a feat that requires a TBJM to accomplish otherwise.

That vid is here.

I think it's great that 21% is starting to get worked on again. However, I'll honestly be disappointed if the only way to get through Geo Core was through a secret world. Not that I have anything against SW's or anything (in fact, I was actually attempting to learn the basics of wallcrawling a day ago), it's just that 21% would feel more "official" if it was done without leaving the game's boundries. It's just really frustrating though that two measly jumps are all that's preventing us from 21% (1>2 and getting onto the second spider block in human form).

[quote="GameCube04"]Maybe the H could stand for high or horizontal, depending on what you're doing. It would make more sense to call it a "high bomb jump" when it's being done on a wall or something.[/quote]
[quote="Ekarderif"]Ah, the magical "horizontal" bomb jump has been renamed to the high bomb jump as nobody has been able to ladder it.[/quote]
Ah, I was unaware that the name change was official... I guess this means I've actually coined an MP term.  Cool.  :D  We should try to come up with a different name for the HBJ/DBJ... it just doesn't sound that good.

[quote="Ekarderif"]GameCube04 had a video showing him leaving the Central Dynamo with an HBJ, a feat that requires a TBJM to accomplish otherwise. [/quote]
That vid is [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/gamecube04/gc04_wall_hbj.avi]here[/url].

I think it's great that 21% is starting to get worked on again.  However, I'll honestly be disappointed if the only way to get through Geo Core was through a secret world.  Not that I have anything against SW's or anything (in fact, I was actually attempting to learn the basics of wallcrawling a day ago), it's just that 21% would feel more "official" if it was done without leaving the game's boundries.  It's just really frustrating though that two measly jumps are all that's preventing us from 21% (1>2 and getting onto the second spider block in human form).

bartendorsparky

2004-11-13 01:09:00 am

always move fast

and raising the platforms

GameCube04

2004-11-13 01:13:33 am

Heh. It's funny because I always forget about raising the two platforms, so I always think Geo Core is somewhat close to being solved, then I remember the platforms and realize how far away it really is. =/

Ekarderif

2004-11-13 01:14:15 am

Quote from GameCube04:

We should try to come up with a different name for the HBJ/DBJ... it just doesn't sound that good.

The guys over at samus.co.uk are calling it the uber bomb jump. Personally I think that's a silly name but whatever.

Yoshi348

2004-11-13 01:17:45 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

I like the HDBJ. Or the DHBJ. Whatever you prefer.

DJGrenola

2004-11-13 01:17:55 am

Well it was LeCoureur who suggested renaming it to UBJ for "Ultimate Bomb Jump".

Ekarderif

2004-11-13 01:18:28 am

Actually, LeCoureur and I independently found it. Ultimate sounds so much better than Uber though :P.

DJGrenola

2004-11-13 01:20:00 am

Yeah, sorry, I just realised that and edited my post. And yeah, I agree with you (UBJ could also stand for "ultra bomb jump").

Sesshoumaru

2004-11-13 01:27:00 am

Quote from Yoshi348:

I like the HDBJ. Or the DHBJ. Whatever you prefer.

Does that stand for Witch's Brüe?

smilingjack13

2004-11-13 01:41:37 am

I usually think of the 1 to 2 gap as being solved. Gamecube04 and Bartendor have both come so close with a bomb ladder, it's hard to think that you can't get that half inch of extra height. So, in my mind, if the spinners were solved, only the top of the room would be a huge problem, and I'd be motivated to work on it.

It's nice to see people working on 21% again. I'm just wondering, if secret worlds were to be used on Geo Core, then shouldn't secret worlds be used for the other tough rooms too? I don't know how hard the one for Vent Shaft is to get into; it's probably easier than the bomb jump through Vent Shaft. I don't know if there are secret worlds that could be gotten into for Great Tree Hall and Phendrana's Edge, but it would make things a hell of a lot easier.

Anyway, if someone can solve Geo Core with secret worlds, then that's awesome, but I'd love to see an in-bounds solution aswell. :)

DJGrenola

2004-11-13 01:46:31 am

There's an (unconfirmed but most likely possible) SW in Phendrana's Edge, but AFAIK it requires grapple.

The problem with using SWs for the 21% game is that a lot of them need at least space jump (not surprising as the majority involve jumping over the walls). So in a lot of cases, you're stuck with the same old issue.

Sesshoumaru

BioSpark

Edit history:

BioSpark: 2009-02-26 10:42:42 pm

2004-11-13 01:50:33 am

*stabs Gamecube04*

*stabs smilingjack13*

*dumps their bodies into a witch's br端e*

And I would definitely condone SW use anywhere it's useful.

smilingjack13

2004-11-13 02:00:51 am

Owe. I got stabbed.

Ekarderif

2004-11-13 02:03:15 am

/me stabs smilingjack13 because he likes it like that
/me stabs GameCube04 for being better than me
/me threatens to stab Sesshoumaru if he doesn't lay off the Secret World business and get back to 1% goodness