21% Topic

2004-09-20 03:20:23 am

Since there have been recent developments in a 21% game, I've decided to create a topic for it (rather than flooding up smilingjack's 22% topic, heh). Smilingjack almost has Great Tree Hall solved, and as far as I'm concerned, if anybody can learn how to HBJ, Phendrana's Edge is solved since I was able to TBJ from the branch to the next snowy ledge. These two rooms look very promising, so that would only mean Vent Shaft and Geo Core for a 21% game! Although Geo Core needs a miracle, 21% looks a lot better now than it did a few days ago.

Post whatever contributions you have for a 21% game here. Let's bring Metroid Prime's minimum percentage down one more time before the sequel comes out!

Thread title:

kip

2004-09-20 11:13:22 am

Well... I tried vent shaft again, but I think I'm done trying the standard bomb jump, because all my best attempts look the same; Samus' left boot or whatever makes contact with the ledge or goes over it for a fraction of a second. You still need a lot more height to get up even if that happens (just look at some of my trial videos).

It's hard to believe space jump makes that much of a difference... unless Trebor or someone has gotten a lot closer, I don't see how it would be done without different bomb timing. But I suck so don't let me discourage you.

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/bleh.jpg

Prime Hunter

2004-09-20 02:52:01 pm

Question: Is Space Jump the item you are trying to go without this time? If so, I think we would need a miracle to get through the game without it. But, if it can be done SOMEHOW...

I'm not sure if anyone know this, but I seem to recall seeing a FAQ about a non SJ run: Didn't read into it much, so I'm not sure what you would need to have to do it. Probably wouldn't work without some of the goods that have already been cut.

Edit: Here's the link if you guys wanted to check into it:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/metroid_prime_no_space_jump.txt

Edit2: Hmm... Geo Core problems again I see Evil or Very Mad

(That's as far as the FAQ goes since they can't get Plasma without the boots)

Ekarderif

2004-09-20 03:00:35 pm

Sorry but I've been busy with speed running again :?. But basically my theory for Geothermal Core is as follows:

Up to 1: 3BJ from a Spore seems extremely likely. I doubt this should be any concern but someone should verify just to say we can.
Edit: The Spore can launch you up to the first platform a la Thardus "Dash". Basically solved :P.

1 > 2: A ladder 3BJ is another definite here as people have gotten extremely close with just a simple DBJ. It's still unconfirmed so someone get to it! :P

2 > 3: This is, in my opinion, the death of the 21% game. An L-Lock Spring space jump barely clears this and no bomb jump (save maybe a wall TBJ) could gain both enough height and distance, or so it seems. Maybe a HBJ/3BJ would work? Who knows...

3 up: Wall TBJ should work here. Again we need verification but this is pretty minor.

3 > slot: Another doozy. A precise dash-jump lands you in front but I don't think it gives enough height. I'm hoping a HBJ/DBJ would be enough but it's pretty slim. I'm also thinking you can unmorph to reach the slot, and somehow the game forces you back into ball form, as it does in some other areas randomly.

From then it's a matter of getting to the Spider Ball blocks, which shouldn't prove too difficult with the previous maneuvers. A HBJ from the 2nd block should land you in front of the Ice Door.

Sorry but I've been busy with speed running again :?. But basically my theory for Geothermal Core is as follows:

Up to 1: 3BJ from a Spore seems extremely likely. I doubt this should be any concern but someone should verify just to say we can.
Edit: The Spore can launch you up to the first platform a la Thardus "Dash". Basically solved :P.

1 > 2: A ladder 3BJ is another definite here as people have gotten extremely close with just a simple DBJ. It's still unconfirmed so someone get to it! :P

2 > 3: This is, in my opinion, the death of the 21% game. An L-Lock Spring space jump barely clears this and no bomb jump (save maybe a wall TBJ) could gain both enough height and distance, or so it seems. Maybe a HBJ/3BJ would work? Who knows...

3 up: Wall TBJ should work here. Again we need verification but this is pretty minor.

3 > slot: Another doozy. A precise dash-jump lands you in front but I don't think it gives enough height. I'm hoping a HBJ/DBJ would be enough but it's pretty slim. I'm also thinking you can unmorph to reach the slot, and somehow the game forces you back into ball form, as it does in some other areas randomly.

From then it's a matter of getting to the Spider Ball blocks, which shouldn't prove too difficult with the previous maneuvers. A HBJ from the 2nd block should land you in front of the Ice Door.

bartendorsparky

2004-09-20 03:56:35 pm

always move fast

im not sure if the puddle spore bomb jump was confirmed, but either way, i got a way to get to the first spinner. (note: i had space jump, but if you see the video, you'll see why i dont think you need it).

1) jump at the puddle spore as it is open, if done correctly(or get lucky), you should take damage but not get moved.

2) morph into a ball in the center of the puddle spore.

3) it should shoot you straight up, but it may do it to the side, if so, try again. If shot up, im not quite sure what to do, but try morphing and holding over or something i guess...

http://www.metroid2002.com/bartendorsparky/geo_puddle_spore_bounce.avi

Also: I take damage right before using my second jump. Im 90% sure you can morph right after taking damage and get the same results.

EDIT: i got the bounce to work without using the second jump, so theoretically this should work without sj.

EDIT 2: Also, a dash jump, starting from the "rim" of the first platform, and using the grapple point, can get from 1->2. However, i have sj (the item) so im not sure how much that affects it...,

im not sure if the puddle spore bomb jump was confirmed, but either way, i got a way to get to the first spinner. (note: i had space jump, but if you see the video, you'll see why i dont think you need it).

1) jump at the puddle spore as it is open, if done correctly(or get lucky), you should take damage but not get moved.

2) morph into a ball in the center of the puddle spore.

3) it should shoot you straight up, but it may do it to the side, if so, try again. If shot up, im not quite sure what to do, but try morphing and holding over or something i guess...

http://www.metroid2002.com/bartendorsparky/geo_puddle_spore_bounce.avi

Also: I take damage right before using my second jump. Im 90% sure you can morph right after taking damage and get the same results.

EDIT: i got the bounce to work without using the second jump, so theoretically this should work without sj.

EDIT 2: Also, a dash jump, starting from the "rim" of the first platform, and using the grapple point, can get from 1->2. However, i have sj (the item) so im not sure how much that affects it...,

Kridly

2004-09-20 05:06:34 pm

Awesome, I had no clue that 21% was being worked on. Hopefully, you guys will figure out a way to do it, and good luck. Maybe after this is done, if it gets done, I will try a 21% run. But echoes is being released, I have my runs to record, and we will be busy trying to SB echoes. maybe after all that, I'll try a 21% run. Maybe.

smilingjack13

2004-09-20 05:36:24 pm

I decided I would keep working on Great Tree Hall. I replaced the second double bomb jump with a 3BJ, and it looks very promising. I can say this is one hellish bomb jump, having to balance on the rail, get the timing perfect, get the angle to the opening above just right and morph at the exact time the game will let you. However, I can also say the gap is possible this way. I had one jump where I swear all that was keeping me off the platform was the soles of Samus's boots. I might try more later to officially solve this room.

Gamecube04: Good bomb jump there in Phendrana's Edge. Are you sure that's possible without SJ? That would be awesome. And today I was wondering if anyone has ever tried freezing the pirates in that room and jumping onto them. Perhaps you can get some bounce off of them like you can with metroids... or puddle spores.

Bartendor: That puddle spore vid looks cools. I had always said jokingly that maybe you could bounce off a puddle spore and up into the bomb slot. I guess that much height isn't possible, eh?

As I've said before, I don't think 21% will be done and Geo Core will be solved unless we can find a way to raise the other two spinners. I think that's the only option that's realistic at all. After the spinners are raised, some good bomb jumps, maybe HBJs, should clear the gaps between spinners.

BTW, I looked briefly last night and couldn't figure this out... How do you get out of PPC without Space Jump OR Spider Ball?

I decided I would keep working on Great Tree Hall. I replaced the second double bomb jump with a 3BJ, and it looks very promising. I can say this is one hellish bomb jump, having to balance on the rail, get the timing perfect, get the angle to the opening above just right and morph at the exact time the game will let you. However, I can also say the gap is possible this way. I had one jump where I swear all that was keeping me off the platform was the soles of Samus's boots. I might try more later to officially solve this room.

Gamecube04: Good bomb jump there in Phendrana's Edge. Are you sure that's possible without SJ? That would be awesome.  And today I was wondering if anyone has ever tried freezing the pirates in that room and jumping onto them. Perhaps you can get some bounce off of them like you can with metroids... or puddle spores.

Bartendor: That puddle spore vid looks cools. I had always said jokingly that maybe you could bounce off a puddle spore and up into the bomb slot. I guess that much height isn't possible, eh?

As I've said before, I don't think 21% will be done and Geo Core will be solved unless we can find a way to raise the other two spinners. I think that's the only option that's realistic at all. After the spinners are raised, some good bomb jumps, maybe HBJs, should clear the gaps between spinners.

BTW, I looked briefly last night and couldn't figure this out... How do you get out of PPC without Space Jump OR Spider Ball?

GameCube04

2004-09-20 08:01:10 pm

Well if you're coming up from the very bottom, bomb ladder your way around the lower circle platforms and make it to the platform with the large pile of boxes. Jump on top of the boxes, and bomb ladder your way to the circle platform ahead/above you. Make it to the platform where the turret was and to the next platform on the right. From there, you can wall TBJM up to the next level. After that... you can scan dash onto the vertical thing that is normally used with the spider ball track as the scan point, or you can spring jump there. From there, it's just a matter of climbing it by using bomb jumps/single jumps, unless there is an easier method that I am not aware of.

Baby Sheegoth

Edit history:

Baby Sheegoth: 2009-08-25 10:59:59 am

2004-09-20 08:55:36 pm

Quote from kip:

Well... I tried vent shaft again, but I think I'm done trying the standard bomb jump, because all my best attempts look the same; Samus' left boot or whatever makes contact with the ledge or goes over it for a fraction of a second. You still need a lot more height to get up even if that happens (just look at some of my trial videos).

It's hard to believe space jump makes that much of a difference... unless Trebor or someone has gotten a lot closer, I don't see how it would be done without different bomb timing. But I suck so don't let me discourage you.

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/bleh.jpg

Kippy! you've done it before! See!

Narcoleptic

2004-09-20 09:26:43 pm

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

Quote from kip:

Well... I tried vent shaft again, but I think I'm done trying the standard bomb jump, because all my best attempts look the same; Samus' left boot or whatever makes contact with the ledge or goes over it for a fraction of a second. You still need a lot more height to get up even if that happens (just look at some of my trial videos).

It's hard to believe space jump makes that much of a difference... unless Trebor or someone has gotten a lot closer, I don't see how it would be done without different bomb timing. But I suck so don't let me discourage you.

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/bleh.jpg

Kippy… you've done it before… See!

He knows that he's done it before. The only thing is that he can't do it without the SJB. Having the Space Jump Boots gives you more height when unmorphing from a bomb jump. Without that extra height, it's currently impossible to make that jump in Vent Shaft.

[quote="Baby Sheegoth"][quote="kip"]Well... I tried vent shaft again, but I think I'm done trying the standard bomb jump, because all my best attempts look the same; Samus' left boot or whatever makes contact with the ledge or goes over it for a fraction of a second. You still need a lot more height to get up even if that happens (just look at some of my trial videos).

It's hard to believe space jump makes that much of a difference... unless Trebor or someone has gotten a [i]lot[/i] closer, I don't see how it would be done without different bomb timing. But I suck so don't let me discourage you.

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/bleh.jpg[/quote][url=http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/vent_shaft.avi] Kippy… you've done it before… See! [/url][/quote]He knows that he's done it before. The only thing is that he can't do it without the SJB.  Having the Space Jump Boots gives you more height when unmorphing from a bomb jump.  Without that extra height, it's currently impossible to make that jump in Vent Shaft.

Tzyr

2004-09-21 03:39:10 pm

What GameCube04 said about PPC is the only way I know to get up the room without sj/spider.

I was able to get from the plasma door at the bottom, to the main platform doing what GC04 said, and zoidi found the whole dash to the ledge and bomb your way up the ledge that you would use to skip the room without spider with sj.

All of it was comfirmed without sj, safe the one jump from when you dash to the rail, and make the first bomb jump. From there you can get up. Zoidi managed the jump with sj on..but it is a matter of just doing it, not that it would give you anymore height.

both kip and zoidi have gone from the upper rafters to the top of the room without sj so that part does not need confirming

Good job about getting p.edge. Someone (man, I cannot believe I cannot remember who) was able to dash using the pirate or something to do branch..you got from the branch to the snow ledge..you can bomb jump to the last floating platform..and if someone can do a longer dbj ladder, you can make it to the door fairly easily. I have been able to get close, but just have not made it yet.

I dunno about GTH..if someone can get to the part where kip got stuck and just hovered to the top ledge, that would be great..then that room is solved.

As for Geo? bah..who knows. A dbj ladder barely reaches 3 > 2..my 3bj ladder was able to get it easily..but unless the hbj can get a lot more distance, I dunno if that will be possible. And that is assuming you can get to 3

The only other concern I have is to get from CD > MQB without losing enough life, since there are a lot of areas where you need to be in the phazon. (Phazon mining tunnel, the room just before MQB and MQB)

What GameCube04 said about PPC is the only way I know to get up the room without sj/spider.

I was able to get from the plasma door at the bottom, to the main platform doing what GC04 said, and zoidi found the whole dash to the ledge and bomb your way up the  ledge that you would use to skip the room without spider with sj.

All of it was comfirmed without sj, safe the one jump from when you dash to the rail, and make the first bomb jump.  From there you can get up.  Zoidi managed the jump with sj on..but it is a matter of just doing it, not that it would give you anymore height.

both kip and zoidi have gone from the upper rafters to the top of the room without sj  so that part does not need confirming

Good job about getting p.edge.  Someone (man, I cannot believe I cannot remember who) was able to dash using the pirate or something to do branch..you got from the branch to the snow ledge..you can bomb jump to the last floating platform..and if someone can do a longer dbj ladder, you can make it to the door fairly easily.  I have been able to get close, but just have not made it yet.

I dunno about GTH..if someone can get to the part where kip got stuck and just hovered to the top ledge, that would be great..then that room is solved.

As for Geo? bah..who knows.  A dbj ladder barely reaches 3 > 2..my 3bj ladder was able to get it easily..but unless the hbj can get a lot more distance, I dunno if that will be possible.  And that is assuming you can get to 3

The only other concern I have is to get from CD > MQB without losing enough life, since there are a lot of areas where you need to be in the phazon.  (Phazon mining tunnel, the room just before MQB and MQB)

Ekarderif

2004-09-21 03:44:58 pm

Quote from Tzyr:

...you can bomb jump to the last floating platform..and if someone can do a longer dbj ladder, you can make it to the door fairly easily. I have been able to get close, but just have not made it yet.

Basically, execute a good HBJ/DBJ and you're in. smilingjack13 is working on GTH at the moment. He was able to get onto the Spider Ball track and almost DBJ up. http://www.metroid2002.com/smilingjack13/great_tree_hall_no_sj.avi,
As far as Geo Core... unless we somehow magically get 2 > 3, I don't think anything else would be too much of a concern right now. Ever other thing seems viable compared to that but that's just me. My theories were posted, though you can scratch my up to 1 as it seems Bartendorsparky figured that out.

GameCube04

2004-09-21 04:27:50 pm

Quote from Tzyr:

if someone can do a longer dbj ladder, you can make it to the door fairly easily. I have been able to get close, but just have not made it yet.

I don't know about a regular bomb ladder. I've been trying it, and I've never been able to make it with a bomb ladder... I did come EXTREMELY close using a 3BJ ladder (I'll probably capture it just so you can see how close it was), but keep in mind that this is all WITH space jump. I really doubt the jump can be made without space jump unless somebody manages to learn how to horizontal bomb jump... but if you think it can be made with a bomb ladder/ladder 3BJ, then more power to you.

smilingjack13

2004-09-21 06:47:33 pm

Quote from Tzyr:

I dunno about GTH..if someone can get to the part where kip got stuck and just hovered to the top ledge, that would be great..then that room is solved.

Finally. I made the 3BJ ladder up to the top ledge. Now, just to officially solve the room, I need to do the DBJ up to where you do the 3BJ. The problem is that when I did it using the spider ball to stall, I was a bit above the bomb and it gave me more height. I figured this would happen. Anyway, without using the spider ball, getting enough height is extremely difficult. I know it can be done since I did get up on one attempt just to fall off, but most of the time, I'm a bit low. And getting the stall on the spider ball track (where I used the spider ball in the vid) is very hard, so doing this is frusturating me. Anyway, I'll try some more, and hopefully, I'll have a vid of all of GTH later tonight.

If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense to someone, then it's probably because you didn't read my huge post in my 22% topic. Wink

Even if we do solve all the rooms for 21%, I don't know who's going to take on the challenge to actually do that run. Having to do all of the obstacles in Vent Shaft & PPC, GTH & Life Grove, and Phendrana's Edge all consecutively would be absolutely insane. Coming up with crazy solutions to each individual part of the room is one thing, but can anyone string all the obstacles in a room together?

[quote="Tzyr"]I dunno about GTH..if someone can get to the part where kip got stuck and just hovered to the top ledge, that would be great..then that room is solved.[/quote]

Finally. I made the 3BJ ladder up to the top ledge. Now, just to officially solve the room, I need to do the DBJ up to where you do the 3BJ. The problem is that when I did it using the spider ball to stall, I was a bit above the bomb and it gave me more height. I figured this would happen. Anyway, without using the spider ball, getting enough height is extremely difficult. I know it can be done since I did get up on one attempt just to fall off, but most of the time, I'm a bit low. And getting the stall on the spider ball track (where I used the spider ball in the vid) is very hard, so doing this is frusturating me. Anyway, I'll try some more, and hopefully, I'll have a vid of all of GTH later tonight.

If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense to someone, then it's probably because you didn't read my huge post in my 22% topic.  :wink:

Even if we do solve all the rooms for 21%, I don't know who's going to take on the challenge to actually do that run. Having to do all of the obstacles in Vent Shaft & PPC, GTH & Life Grove, and Phendrana's Edge all consecutively would be absolutely insane. Coming up with crazy solutions to each individual part of the room is one thing, but can anyone string all the obstacles in a room together?

Baby Sheegoth

2004-09-21 08:12:02 pm

Quote from smilingjack13:

but can anyone string all the obstacles in a room together?

what do you mean by that?

smilingjack13

2004-09-21 08:12:39 pm

Maybe I was getting frusturated too quickly above...

http://www.metroid2002.com/smilingjack13/great_tree_hall_no_sj_spider.avi

:D

There it is. I did the solution in three parts and appended them together. It's a good thing there is sound in the vid because the frames at the end of each part lines up so well with the beginning of the next part, that you'd probably think it was all continuous. The sound gives it away though.

And I am quite angry that the stupid tape that had the 3BJ on it decided to start breaking itself. It ended up messing up the sound at parts and putting scrolling white lines across the screen every few seconds. You can still see the 3BJ quite clearly, but I would have liked for it to look better. Oh well, at least the whole jump didn't get messed up.

Baby Sheegoth: For example, I captured the GTH solution in three parts. I can do each part individually by using the spider ball to get to the part of the room that I want to try. However, on a real run, you would need to do all three parts continuously. Every time you mess up the last bomb jump, you would have to do the first two parts again to get back to it. I'm just wondering if anyone has the skill and patience to get through some of these long, hard, dreadful rooms.

Maybe I was getting frusturated too quickly above...

[url]http://www.metroid2002.com/smilingjack13/great_tree_hall_no_sj_spider.avi[/url]

:D

There it is. I did the solution in three parts and appended them together. It's a good thing there is sound in the vid because the frames at the end of each part lines up so well with the beginning of the next part, that you'd probably think it was all continuous. The sound gives it away though.

And I am quite angry that the stupid tape that had the 3BJ on it decided to start breaking itself. It ended up messing up the sound at parts and putting scrolling white lines across the screen every few seconds. You can still see the 3BJ quite clearly, but I would have liked for it to look better. Oh well, at least the whole jump didn't get messed up.

Baby Sheegoth: For example, I captured the GTH solution in three parts. I can do each part individually by using the spider ball to get to the part of the room that I want to try. However, on a real run, you would need to do all three parts continuously. Every time you mess up the last bomb jump, you would have to do the first two parts again to get back to it. I'm just wondering if anyone has the skill and patience to get through some of these long, hard, dreadful rooms.

Baby Sheegoth

2004-09-21 08:29:05 pm

Quote from smilingjack13:

http://www.metroid2002.com/smilingjack13/great_tree_hall_no_sj_spider.avi

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NO AVIS!!!:
AVIs dont work on my COMP.
My COMP not working with stuff Pisses my off.
me piss off person like you did to me
Luckly i READ the URL seeing AVI in it me is not clicking on it me not getting pissed off so you dont ether

Quote from smilingjack13:

Baby Sheegoth: For example, I captured the GTH solution in three parts. I can do each part individually by using the spider ball to get to the part of the room that I want to try. However, on a real run, you would need to do all three parts continuously. Every time you mess up the last bomb jump, you would have to do the first two parts again to get back to it. I'm just wondering if anyone has the skill and patience to get through some of these long, hard, dreadful rooms.

Thank you :)

bartendorsparky

2004-09-21 08:56:35 pm

always move fast

awesome jack. =D

now help me with geo >_>

elyscape

2004-09-21 08:58:24 pm

Hoooo, wow, jack. That movie is incredible. Great job on that!

Ekarderif

2004-09-21 09:41:46 pm

Gogo Jack! Granted you used the Spider Ball, but it looks very possible without it. So someone go confirm and we'll have 3 rooms remaining :P. 2 if anyone can master HBJ since that's all that seems to stop Phendrana's Edge. Now... back to my run.

bartendorsparky

2004-09-21 10:00:21 pm

always move fast

sorry gc04, i couldnt resist...

speaking of the hbj...i belive it isnt needed for phen edge.

http://www.metroid2002.com/bartendorsparky/phen_edge_thingy.avi

granted, i had sj in the video, but the dash at the end didnt use it. Im 99% sure a simple dbj ladder will get atop the grapple point, but its such a small area, i didnt feel like trying. Anways, as far as i know, its just geo and vent shaft now...kinda familiar, eh?

BoostR

2004-09-21 10:36:27 pm

Wow...that was a nice little trick. Great job on finding that. I'll check if a dbjm will get there.

Edit:

>_>

Well, you can definitely get enough distance to reach it from a dbjm. However, the angle seems to be a problem. Apparently, you have to come in at the perfect angle, or you can't get into the strangely shaped ledge. To find this angle, stand on the platform, move left, and jump off of it. When the back prong on the grapple point disappears (aligns perfectly with the front one), all you need to do is face straight towards the point, and get directly on top of it.

The problem with the point of entry is that it is not something you can line up while on the platform, and I don't think you would have enough room to change direction with the unmorph-you'd probably hit a rock and fall if you tried that. I tried to diagonally bomb ladder, then change direction with the unmorph, but the problem with that is the diagonal doesn't get enough distance.

A few things about the dash when you're on the grapple point:
Make sure that you're out at the "front" of it. You don't want to hit the wall right next to you and go nowhere but down. Evil or Very Mad

Happened quite a few times.

You need to curve the dash a little-I did this by holding down after dashing. It might have been where I decided the Glider should be when I dashed off of it, though.

<_<

I even tried a few other methods to get to the Artifact's ledge...I got SO close with a dbjm from the floating platform. Literally an inch more would have made it, so I'm pretty sure that a perfect solr_flare would do the job. I also tried scan-dashing off of the grapple point that Bartendorsparky jumped onto...no go. Rolling Eyes

Not like you wouldn't have already tried that. Another thing I attempted was a wall tbj from the platform right above the branch. Not quite enough height, but it's probably been thought of anyway.

I still can't believe two rooms have disappeared so quickly from the 21% problem list. After being there so long...makes me almost want to try Geo Core again. (Actually, I did...>_>...As of now, I'm not too sure about the tbj off of the spiderball track on the third spinner. It's on a slanted ledge, and the morph ball falls off on impact if it comes from the height of a bomb. If there's a tbj that doesn't involve touching the ground after the first bomb, then that should work. Horizontal bomb jump, maybe?)

Edit2: To evaluate more on Geo Core, I did some bomb jumping from the spinners just to see what was needed...

1 > 2: Pretty good dbjl
2 > 3: Currently impossible-too high
2 > top of 1: Easy dbjl
Top of 1 > 3: Impressive dbjm/fairly good solr_flare

<_<

Top of 1 assumes that you've found a way to raise the first spinner...pretty much the only way most people can see it working right now without some magnificent set of ledges in the rock.

Yeah, so that's a list...probably all known, but I haven't really seen it compiled much anywhere (not that I look around here a lot). Still need to try raising spinner 1, then getting to spinner 2, and raising spinner 2 and going to the top of 1 (shouldn't be a problem), since once a spinner is raised, the platform you have to jump off of is smaller.

>_>

What a long-winded post. Are there any ideas for Vent Shaft besides the 22% bomb jump? You might be able to wallcrawl, but I know a lot of you don't like the SW stuff (no offense). I don't like wallcrawling much, either, so I could understand if you completely reject that idea. Wink

I think I'll fool around in PPC to see if there might be a possibly easier way up from the "main" platform than bombjumping from those little tiny ledges. You never know, maybe you could ghetto up...

:shock:

Wow...that was a nice little trick.  Great job on finding that.  I'll check if a dbjm will get there.

Edit:

>_>

Well, you can definitely get enough distance to reach it from a dbjm.  However, the angle seems to be a problem.  Apparently, you have to come in at the perfect angle, or you can't get into the strangely shaped ledge.  To find this angle, stand on the platform, move left, and jump off of it.  When the back prong on the grapple point disappears (aligns perfectly with the front one), all you need to do is face straight towards the point, and get directly on top of it.

The problem with the point of entry is that it is not something you can line up while on the platform, and I don't think you would have enough room to change direction with the unmorph-you'd probably hit a rock and fall if you tried that.  I tried to diagonally bomb ladder, then change direction with the unmorph, but the problem with that is the diagonal doesn't get enough distance.

A few things about the dash when you're on the grapple point:
Make sure that you're out at the "front" of it.  You don't want to hit the wall right next to you and go nowhere but down. :evil: Happened quite a few times.

You need to curve the dash a little-I did this by holding down after dashing.  It might have been where I decided the Glider should be when I dashed off of it, though.

<_<

I even tried a few other methods to get to the Artifact's ledge...I got SO close with a dbjm from the floating platform.  Literally an inch more would have made it, so I'm pretty sure that a perfect solr_flare would do the job.  I also tried scan-dashing off of the grapple point that Bartendorsparky jumped onto...no go. :roll: Not like you wouldn't have already tried that.  Another thing I attempted was a wall tbj from the platform right above the branch.  Not quite enough height, but it's probably been thought of anyway.

I still can't believe two rooms have disappeared so quickly from the 21% problem list.  After being there so long...makes me almost want to try Geo Core again.  (Actually, I did...>_>...As of now, I'm not too sure about the tbj off of the spiderball track on the third spinner.  It's on a slanted ledge, and the morph ball falls off on impact if it comes from the height of a bomb.  If there's a tbj that doesn't involve touching the ground after the first bomb, then that should work.  Horizontal bomb jump, maybe?)

Edit2:  To evaluate more on Geo Core, I did some bomb jumping from the spinners just to see what was needed...

1 > 2: Pretty good dbjl
2 > 3: Currently impossible-too high
2 > top of 1:  Easy dbjl
Top of 1 > 3:  Impressive dbjm/fairly good solr_flare

<_<

Top of 1 assumes that you've found a way to raise the first spinner...pretty much the only way most people can see it working right now without some magnificent set of ledges in the rock.

Yeah, so that's a list...probably all known, but I haven't really seen it compiled much anywhere (not that I look around here a lot).  Still need to try raising spinner 1, then getting to spinner 2, and raising spinner 2 and going to the top of 1 (shouldn't be a problem), since once a spinner is raised, the platform you have to jump off of is smaller.

>_>

What a long-winded post.  Are there any ideas for Vent Shaft besides the 22% bomb jump?  You might be able to wallcrawl, but I know a lot of you don't like the SW stuff (no offense).  I don't like wallcrawling much, either, so I could understand if you completely reject that idea. :wink:

I think I'll fool around in PPC to see if there might be a possibly easier way up from the "main" platform than bombjumping from those little tiny ledges.  You never know, maybe you could ghetto up...

GameCube04

2004-09-22 12:28:54 am

Quote from Ekarderif:

Gogo Jack! Granted you used the Spider Ball, but it looks very possible without it. So someone go confirm and we'll have 3 rooms remaining :P.

Actually, smilingjack didn't use the Spider Ball in that vid. GTH is 100% confirmed.

Bartendorsparky: O_O Great job on finding that! That's definitely something I never would have found/thought of... I'll have to try that room tonight and maybe (hopefully) confirm Phendrana's Edge to be possible.

GameCube04

2004-09-22 09:52:14 am

Well I was just able to make the Phendrana's Edge TBJ off the branch without space jump. I'll be capturing it later when I get back from classes.

I guess this just leaves the final jump, which is looking very good with sparky's method. :D

kip

2004-09-22 10:29:19 am

Another thing to play around with:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phen's_edge_dash.avi

From the last floating platform, get on the same edge in the video, then dash to the left. Press against the ledge and hold L when you reach it, and you may get stuck. This seems to be one of those floating points where you can get stuck but never go up when you float; there are tons of these in this room alone. As you can see in the video I tried to morph to see if I would stay stuck, but I fell, otherwise I could have just single bombed to the ledge. Maybe if you get stuck at another spot on the ledge (for instance, right between the wall and the ledge), you can float up.

Also, as with pretty much any other floating point, you can slowly turn around if you release L and quickly hold it down again:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phen's_edge_stuck.avi

29 seconds into this video you can see that I briefly get to move forward, but I doubt there's any significance to it. The game would have to do something like pretending you're standing on a ledge for that split second, and reset your jumps so you can just jump up to the ledge... which is pretty far out there.

I also tried just waiting there with L held for several minutes to see if I would eventually appear above the ledge, even though I don't see myself floating up, and that didn't work. I haven't tried dashing at the other side of the ledge yet (or the front side that you would bomb jump at).

I tried to do sparky's grapple point method, first without space jump and then with since I got tired of doing the annoying tbj to the last floating platform. Even with space jump, I couldn't land on it with a dbj morph though. If no one has any luck with it, give this dash thing a try, although it looks pretty useless to me.

Another thing to play around with:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phen's_edge_dash.avi

From the last floating platform, get on the same edge in the video, then dash to the left. Press against the ledge and hold L when you reach it, and you may get stuck. This seems to be one of those floating points where you can get stuck but never go up when you float; there are tons of these in this room alone. As you can see in the video I tried to morph to see if I would stay stuck, but I fell, otherwise I could have just single bombed to the ledge. Maybe if you get stuck at another spot on the ledge (for instance, right between the wall and the ledge), you can float up.

Also, as with pretty much any other floating point, you can slowly turn around if you release L and quickly hold it down again:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phen's_edge_stuck.avi

29 seconds into this video you can see that I briefly get to move forward, but I doubt there's any significance to it. The game would have to do something like pretending you're standing on a ledge for that split second, and reset your jumps so you can just jump up to the ledge... which is pretty far out there.

I also tried just waiting there with L held for several minutes to see if I would eventually appear above the ledge, even though I don't see myself floating up, and that didn't work. I haven't tried dashing at the other side of the ledge yet (or the front side that you would bomb jump at).

I tried to do sparky's grapple point method, first without space jump and then with since I got tired of doing the annoying tbj to the last floating platform. Even with space jump, I couldn't land on it with a dbj morph though. If no one has any luck with it, give this dash thing a try, although it looks pretty useless to me.